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One of the problems of creativity, is that people often fall into patterns of thinking that they are used to follow. Anything that breaks that pattern can result in new and creative ideas, be it dreams, drugs, meditation, or just walking outside and seeing different things that are happening in the street, listening to a lecture, talking to friends... many things can break the patterns in which we are used to think and help us gain inspiration.
I was thinking more along the lines of, not consiousily thinking about it in the dream, but saying "There will be a poem around this corner", now this poem would be dirived from your sub, you really wouldnt "notice" any thought being put into it. It could give you great insight on your inner subliminal feelings/emotions that help create your personality.
One obvious possibily though would be it being a recreation of a poem you have read in the past. (So before you think your mind created this wonderfull poem, idea, w/e you should probabily google it :-P )
How can you judge if you haven’t tried anything yourself? Your thoughts aren’t worth much in this case, please, let me ignore them ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by you16
Ivey,
As you wish, and though I have my own thoughts on why you refused to give proof, I’ll keep them to myself. :)
tommo,
And I was inclined to agree, but then you typed:Quote:
Originally Posted by you16
So you’re taking as a premise the idea that subconscious brain in absolutely everyone’s head is a brain of a genius, after all…Quote:
Originally Posted by you16
I’ll try to offer another way to look at it. Why don’t you think for a moment that subconscious brains of different people can be different? Sure, we all are geniuses? Yeah, right... Please, tell me why people want to undermine others’ achievements by saying that they’re nothing special, those guys just learnt some trick that we didn’t know. Maybe it’s jealousy. It sounds like jealousy to me. Or like a wish to find a non-existant geniusness of their own subconscious. Of course, there is a chance that someone on this forum and in this thread is a genius, but if s\he is, there’s no desperate need for that person to resort to lucid dreams in order to invent or create.
We can use our consciousness to change things in LDs and we call it dream control. Is it what you called ‘use of subconsciousness to a full extent’? The fact that we can use consciousness to alter a dream doesn’t even mean that we tap into the subconscious, because we’re using consciousness to do it, not subconsciousness.Quote:
Originally Posted by you16
Then let’s say you create a book and attempt to read it. I believe that this is where we’re closer to subconsciousness than to consciousness, when we read what must be supplied to us on-the-fly just as we read it, instead of trying to think something up gradually. The text will be supplied, but upon waking it won’t have much meaning. You can disagree, but just try it and memorize it. I believe that this is how subconciousness works, it can’t create proper connections, it can’t use logic, so you create mostly meaningless things. Psychologists would agree with that, just pay attention at how erratically pure subconsciousness works in normal dreams! They lack logic, they lack proper feeling of time, we can’t remember that we’re asleep, memories are messed up, we can’t detect when something weird happens. Subconciousness is absolutely crazy ;)
I can understand the idea that our subconsciousness is an undiscovered land ridden with hidden treasures. But Freud didn’t think so, he thought it was a garbage pile of our life experience, and people like him spent their lives investigating it, so they should know better. If you’re looking for a source of creativeness and ideas, you might be looking for something else. For a special type of consciousness, maybe, not subconsciousness. Or for a special mix of those that makes you a genius both in waking life and in dreams. Choose what you like. Noone knows the truth.
Just because you're unable to doesn't mean it's same for everyone else.
Your own thoughts are opinionated, confusing, and lack factual basis. So please let me regard you to beQuote:
How can you judge if you haven’t tried anything yourself? Your thoughts aren’t worth much in this case, please, let me ignore them wink.gif
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babbling nonsensically.
Our unconscious is a pile of garbage? Do you honestly believe that? Where did Freud say that exactly?
Do you actually know anything about psychology or are you just making this up as you go along?
Don't stoop to anger ;) I failed to find anything in your post apart from it, unfortunately.
I'm not sure if you're talking to me. But if you are why would I be mad because you posted a bunch of inane messages on this forum? Please, don't flatter yourself.
You also failed to answer my questions too, unfortunately.
But perhaps you're right. Perhaps our unconscious really is a pile of crap. Perhaps creativity doesn’t indeed come from the unconscious. Perhaps the thousands of psychologists who believe so are wrong. Perhaps you're just the only one intelligent enough to realize that. And perhaps we’re a bunch of stupid morons for thinking otherwise.
:bigteeth: :bigteeth: :bigteeth: :bigteeth: :bigteeth: :bigteeth: :bigteeth: :bigteeth: :bigteeth: :bigteeth:
I just beated you by using more smilie faces in a post. Ha!
Lol, man. Thanx for giving me such a hilarious chance to laugh! ;)
Let me remind you guys that "A Theory" is defined as:Quote:
Originally Posted by ShYne123
GRAVITY is a theory! But you don't ever hear anyone going "Gravity is JUST a theory."Quote:
...an established and experimentally verified fact or collection of facts about the world.[/b]
Theories are explanations that have been repeatedly observed and tested, so if it is a true scientific theory, then it isn't a load of BS.
Anyway... back on topic.
Anything is possible, but I have never really tried this, most of my dreams that are useful usually predict the future.
oops? Lol my bad, i guess it would be a "idea"
I think this would be a possibility. I don't think it would work as well as your thinking, but I read somewhere about reading 25,000 words per minute then having a lucid dream and asking the author what you wanted to know from the book. I believe it is the same principle. I unfortunately can't find the site I read that on.
heh yeah thats basicly the idea.
The thing is...untill i start to have LDs all the time...i will be doing much funner stuff then trying to have my subconsious relay a book to me, or stealing poetry from the hidden parts of my mind :-P
Sounds interesting. I think the problem that I would have with it, though, is that many times my dreams are completely crazy and random. I think if I were able to control my dreams (someday soooooon), and thought "self, make a poem", it is probable I'd just end up with a bunch of nonsensical gibberish on a page (if I even got a page).
For example, one time I tried to dream about the track meet I was having the next day. It started off with me running a race and ended up with me and my friend riding a hippopotamus through a water chute while tailgating an 18-wheeler.
This is an interesting idea, but one thing to consider:
Like dodobird said, creativity usually stems from thinking in a way that is different from others. "Thinking out of the box" is just that: thinking in a way that isn't the typical, run-of-the-mill thought process. We're taught in school to do things "by the book," or by following a laid-out procedure for solving a problem. While this is helpful for learning a lot of things, sometimes it can cause a problem when you have to think up solutions to problems in the real world that aren't easily answered by just plug-n-chug.
I've been told that I'm a pretty creative person. Usually it's completely accidental, either because I'm not focusing specifically on the task at hand, or my mind goes off on some sort of wild tangent and a thought just pops into my head. Sort of like brainstorming, but less organized and with less relation between thoughts.
My point is that if your trying to tap into your sub-conscious (a really interesting idea) by LD-ing, aren't you sort of cutting off some of that creativity by trying to control the dream? I'm not saying controlling your LDs is bad or not helpful (believe me, controlling my LDs have been awesome), but is it possible that some of the "spark" that comes from your sub-conscious is lost when you take the wheel of the dream?
Hmm... I might try this! Sounds pretty interesting.
I use lucid dreaming and also the semi-lucid but still half awake vivid period before sleep to develop ideas for paintings. Usually what I'll do is come up with a very basic idea of a complicated picture that I'd like to paint and then focus on seeing it in a dream or just before falling asleep.
Although I've been short on LD's lately, During dreams I have intentionally heard music play. My intention in the dream was something like: (What's that beautiful music I hear over there?) However even in the dream I could tell the "tunes" were not spectacular.
BUT, I would have to say that LD's still have the potential for great artistic ideas. Different brainwave states are more creative than others. I HAVE gotten amazing ideas for music when I am in the process of falling asleep, unfortunately it was like a complicated symphony that I was not skilled enough to record.
Just throwing my own experiences about the topic of creative works while dreaming into the mix.
Many times I've found my self in one of those half-asleep states reading a book that wasn't there. The words would be forming as I read on an imaginary book I thought I held in my hands. Though I could never recall with full detail the stories, I always wondered if they'd be any good in RL.
I have actually been inspired to start writing a story from a dream a couple times before. But my motivation usually dies after the first page.
Anyways, that's all.
Thanks for the feedback everyone.
Ed has a good point, when becoming lucid, you loose some of the subconsious part of your dream. But i belive alot of it is still there, i think your sub still creates lots of the things around you, Ie. Setting, characters. You can alter these things merily by wanting to consiousily, being lucid, but most of it is still subconsious. If it was all consiuos (sorry i cant freaking spell lol) we would be so busy thinking about 300 different things, we would probabily just wake up.
-You dont think about the details on the wall behind you while your lucid, unless you really want something special there. Or else it would be too hard, i cant even think up a entire surrounding right now while im awake.
-It seems lots of people, judging from the posts after Ed's, in some ways make my idea seem possible. Its great that you guys use the dream world for things in real life.
Ex: creativity, (painting)