Thread: Lucid Dreaming Induce Genius?

Whoa, you have a great point there. When i start getting LD's im gonna experiment with that man!!

Gonna help me with study

Cheers :yumdumdoodledum:

Yeah, it could possibly be a awsome learning/inventing tool. If everything you see or take in that you forget is stored in your subconscious then i imagine you could use Lding somhow to study? Have a DC appear in the form of einstein and explain to you what you read in your text book the day before. (thats just the basic idea, of the possibilities i was trying to convay.

Originally Posted by ShYne123

... dreams are a manifestation of your subconscious... [/b]

What's your evidence for that?

"Men and their symbols" by Carl Jung.
-Its only a theory but it makes sense.
-I got my "facts" on the subconscious from that book, they might not be 100% accurate, im only on page 50, and its a little hard to read.

-Im not saying Jung said that stuff about genius and lding, it was just a thought that poped into my head while reading his book.

Try asking a DC if dreams are a manifestation of the subconscious..

That's an interesting idea. I've heard tell that Thomas Edison (I think?) used to sit in a chair with marbles in his hand and a sheet of metal below his feet in order to enter the hypnogogic state when he was working on inventions... the idea being that he knew that if he fell fully asleep the marbles would drop from his hand onto the sheet metal and wake him up so that he could try again. It sounds like (if I'm understanding you correctly) pretty much the same thing. You're as smart as Thomas Edison.

I know that I've written music in my dreams, although not lucidly, but I've woken up with the song still in my mind. My cousin wrote a poem in her dream and remembered it to write it down. It's really quite good! So, I suppose it could also be used as a study aid.

I do have to disagree with one thing, though... You said:

In normal wakeing life, your actions and thoughts come mostily from your consious, and go into your subconscious once attention is taken off of the the subject to make room for more ideas in your consious, so your thoughts arnt cluttered. I think of the subconscious as a giant storage facility, its so big though that ideas, memorizes cant really be found at will, but once and a while somthing comes up (ex: a old memory.)[/b]

I actually tend to believe the opposite--that our subconscious controls everything we do. It was once said (don't ask me by whom) that "Conscience is a gift from the subconscience to let us believe that we're in control."

Of course I'm not really very well-read in this particular area of the human mind, so take what I say with a grain of salt. It just happens to be my own opinion after the little bit I've seen/read about.

"You're as smart as Thomas Edison."

Lol i wish.. i had to google spell check about 20 words in that first post, i knew if it looked retarded people would take it like a joke.

Anyway, (were you quoted me) i have no degree in psych, and am no expert so i cant really argue my point with facts. Its just what iv read and it seemed to make sense.

It seems like your experiances, an your cousins kinda validate what i was saying.
Thanks for the response.

It's a nice thought, but there could be some problems.
Like you would summon Einstein, and an Einstein impostor comes and starts talking about weird stuff (subconscious is in control).
Or the other way around (if your conscious is in control) you summon Einstein, but when he starts talking about the topic, after about 30 seconds you got bored (that's why you aren't thinking on it in RL) and your mind starts to wander off, and Einstein fades away.
But then again this model doesn't explain when ppl think alot in the day about a problem and the solution comes in a dream...

And about Thomas Edison, why was he inventing in hypnogogic state?

Originally Posted by qzole

And about Thomas Edison, why was he inventing in hypnogogic state?
[/b]

From what I understand (my information about this is limited ), he wasn't actually "inventing", but rather when he was trying to figure out the answer to a problem while inventing, he would attempt to go into a hypnogogic state and seek the answer. (I only know this information second-hand because I was discussing lucid dreaming with my therapist who had studied about it somewhat extensively and he told me about this.)

Your therapist is cool.

Yes, he is.

Originally Posted by qzole

It's a nice thought, but there could be some problems.
Like you would summon Einstein, and an Einstein impostor comes and starts talking about weird stuff (subconscious is in control).
Or the other way around (if your conscious is in control) you summon Einstein, but when he starts talking about the topic, after about 30 seconds you got bored (that's why you aren't thinking on it in RL) and your mind starts to wander off, and Einstein fades away.
[/b]

I dont really understand what your trying to say, if your interested in the subject, and you want to learn you wouldnt loose focus. A LD is like RL, if you would get bored IRL, then that would happen, but if your trying to utilize Lding to better yourself, it could keep your interest. Im not sure if thats what your trying to say. If im wrong please reply in more detail. When i start getting longer Lds ill try this out probabily with a philosopher whos book iv read.

Originally Posted by ShYne123

Could you not say "theres going to be a paper with a poem written on it accross the room" as you would do to spawn a person. Your subconscious would have written that poem if there is words on it right? Could you do the same thing and spawn designs? A theme park layout? Anything...[/b]

You can do this, but what do you think you will get? A load of crap. Believe me.

Originally Posted by ShYne123

Could you not recall memorizes from years ago?[/b]

Memory recall is the same, but less precise. You'll make mistakes.


As for geniouses, they had their inventions in their heads already, they thought of them a lot, just couldn't figure out the last brushes. No surprise that they figured them out completely upon a little relaxation

Well, i cant prove anything i said its just a theory, especially sense i havnt got to try any of it in Lds yet.
I have no argument.

I can prove what I said, though, or rather I can state it as personal truth because I tried those things.

Follower

It seems to me like you're making statements without supporting evidence.

Originally Posted by Follower

You can do this, but what do you think you will get? A load of crap. Believe me.
Memory recall is the same, but less precise. You'll make mistakes.
As for geniouses, they had their inventions in their heads already, they thought of them a lot, just couldn't figure out the last brushes. No surprise that they figured them out completely upon a little relaxation
[/b]

Hmm my experience has been quite different involving "inventing" things while sleeping. Maybe it's your level of lucidity that's not allowing you to create stuff that isn't "a load of crap". (I wouldn't ever use those words to describe anyone's creations, but not knowing your specific creations I was just using your wording. )

I do think that genius can occur from dreaming, though. Take a look at this really cool article. It shows a lot of instances (granted, not lucid) where famous people got their ideas for their amazing inventions through dreams.

ETA: Apparently I (or my therapist ) was wrong about the hypnogogic state, according to the article. Still, pretty cool though.

I was going to say that Ivey but you beat me to it. Creativity comes from somewhere, why couldn't it come out as a dream of a poem or painting or piece of music or invention or great insight? I think it is a good idea. Well obviously, since some great things have come from it.

P.S. I love posting after you Ivey, I love seeing Willy looking at me!

-I still think it is a valid idea, im glad its getting attention becuase if some reaserch was done on this by a few people maybe it could create a new reason to LD.

-Forinstance, what if 5 different people read the same artical on evolution (i dont really belive in that but it just came into my mind)
And in their next Ld they spawned somone to explain to them what they read. I wonder if it would be like a 1 on 1 class (awsome review, of shit their concous didnt even remember), or would it just be weird random babbling? I am at no place to lead research like this although i would love to, simply becuase i couldnt be a part of it, im not advanced enough in lding. But maybe someday :-)

Originally Posted by you16

It seems to me like you're making statements without supporting evidence.[/b]

I wonder why does it seem so to you? Have you experimented and came up with different results?

Originally Posted by you16

Hmm my experience has been quite different involving "inventing" things while sleeping. Maybe it's your level of lucidity that's not allowing you to create stuff that isn't "a load of crap". (I wouldn't ever use those words to describe anyone's creations, but not knowing your specific creations I was just using your wording. )
[/b]

Maybe a load of crap was too strong a wording. But what you can create won't be better than what you could create in waking life. Weirder, maybe, but not better. I'm very well familiar with the effect when your creation seems godly to you, but upon waking you remember what it was and know it was nothing special, ordinary, or worse. Senseless things seem meaningful, logic is absent, emotions run high, and it makes you think that you create something great, something special. I had revelations this way. But everything is different when you try to reproduce it upon waking Unless you want to cling to it sentimentally
If you can prove that you've created an extraodinary thing in a LD and it still seems extraodinary in real life, please, prove it. Otherwise your words that your experience has been quite different seem like a lie or self-deceit to me
But I can understand why people want to 'attack' me for such posts. Everyone wants to believe that there's a way to cheat their own selves and create something extraodinary, even if they can't normally do it ebing who they are.

Originally Posted by you16

Take a look at this really cool article. It shows a lot of instances (granted, not lucid) where famous people got their ideas for their amazing inventions through dreams.[/b]

I said nothing against that! But we're ordinary people. You can't seriously think that if you create something in a LD it will be a creation of a genious just because you created it in a LD. You're still the same person in a LD. And those people were geniouses in waking life, they weren't ordinary to start with.
Guys, there's free stuff, there's pirated software, but it's different. You can't suddenly acquire a talent you haven't had without applying any effort at all.

First of all I just want to say that I ahve thought about exactly the same thing.

Follower - I don't think anyone thought they would instantly be able to create something genious.

My thoughts on this since I've been wondering if it is possible is that it is probably a good way to come up with creative ideas. When you wake up you would have to use your conscious brain to figure out the faults with it and why it wouldn't work IRL. This is basically the same as what these genious people such as edison and michelangelo do but they were able to use their conscious, logical part of the brain at the same time. The only reason every person isn't as creative as these people is because they can't use their subconscious brain as powerfully as the genious' could. But when we are in a dream we can use it to it's full extent, so I believe it is possible. One problem is the forgetting of small details, michelangelo wouldn't have to worry about this because he'd be taking notes etc as he thought of things. In dreams we can't do this so you would have to have a really good dream recall and memory. Also you couldn't write a poem because you can't read in dreams maybe just say it to yourself or something.

Anyway, with a few compensations I believe you could create something to YOUR full extent of ability, I'm not saying you are going to be a genious instantly.

Just what I said. You offer no supporting evidence besides your own opinion on the subject.

You're like: "I think....and therefore I am correct."

We're not trying to become a genius we're trying to find what makes a genius and assimilate that, one of which is creativity. And if you know anything about psychology is that creativity comes from our unconscious mind.

So yah. I think you're wrong. On just about every single aspect.

Originally Posted by tommo

Also you couldn't write a poem because you can't read in dreams [/b]

Yes, I can. Lots of people can. The inability to read was one of the first things that went away when I tried to use it an RC.

Originally Posted by tommo

I can prove what I said, though, or rather I can state it as personal truth because I tried those things.
[/b]

Just because it didn't work for you doesn't prove anything.

Originally Posted by Follower

Maybe a load of crap was too strong a wording. But what you can create won't be better than what you could create in waking life. Weirder, maybe, but not better. I'm very well familiar with the effect when your creation seems godly to you, but upon waking you remember what it was and know it was nothing special, ordinary, or worse. Senseless things seem meaningful, logic is absent, emotions run high, and it makes you think that you create something great, something special. I had revelations this way. But everything is different when you try to reproduce it upon waking Unless you want to cling to it sentimentally [/b]

I've also experienced thinking something was wonderful during a dream and awakening only to find that it was, in reality, silly. I'm not arguing that.

Originally Posted by Follower

If you can prove that you've created an extraodinary thing in a LD and it still seems extraodinary in real life, please, prove it. Otherwise your words that your experience has been quite different seem like a lie or self-deceit to me [/b]

It kind of seems like you'll believe what you want to believe. I could give you a poem right now that was written during a LD, but it sounds like no matter what I said, you'd say I was "lying". There's no way for me to prove that I've done anything extraordinary during a LD. By the same token, there's no way for you to prove that I haven't. ::shrugs:: It doesn't matter to me if you believe me or not. I know the facts for my situation; I don't really have to prove it to anyone.

Originally Posted by Follower

But I can understand why people want to 'attack' me for such posts. Everyone wants to believe that there's a way to cheat their own selves and create something extraodinary, even if they can't normally do it ebing who they are.[/b]

I'm sorry you're feeling attacked. I thought we were having a discussion and were on opposite sides of the issue. I believe that each unique person on this planet is very extraordinary in his or her own way, it's just a matter of unlocking that "magic" within ourselves. I don't think that this means that every person is going to be a genius. I just think that every person has something that makes them special, unique, etc., and maybe dreams could help them explore that side of themselves that they'd never otherwise have explored.

Originally Posted by Follower

I said nothing against that! But we're ordinary people. You can't seriously think that if you create something in a LD it will be a creation of a genious just because you created it in a LD. You're still the same person in a LD. And those people were geniouses in waking life, they weren't ordinary to start with.
Guys, there's free stuff, there's pirated software, but it's different. You can't suddenly acquire a talent you haven't had without applying any effort at all.
[/b]

I don't think anyone here is saying not to apply effort... even *dreaming* takes effort. I think the point is that if you work on something in your waking hours (in essence, applying effort to it) that you can work on it in your sleep, also, to further the work of your choosing, or to discover something else about yourself or your ideas that you hadn't realized.

JMH $.02