Are we brainwashed?

One of my favorite Quotes is "Question evrerything". -Albert Einstien. Most brilliant minds did so. Like Leanardo daVinci or Stephen Hawkins.
Here is my point.
The other day I was talking about Hynogogic imgagery. The discussion was rather lenghthy, so to make a long story short, this person said that I was being brain washed or influenced by my infetuation with dreaming and what goes along with it. His point was that I was ruling out other possibilities other than hynogogic imagery. Such as a relious sign or maybe ghosts as apposed to scientifically calling it (HI).
Anything that a person gets envolved in and has thainfluence of many similar thinking minds is subject to the influence of that particular subject. Lucid dreaming, religion, science etc. So. Question yourself.
Comments?

Its whatever you want it to be.

I personally think its the inner dolpin in all of us.

Mine craves pistachios.

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Originally posted by loose id
Its whatever you want it to be.

I personally think its the inner dolpin in all of us. *

Mine craves pistachios.

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That is what I am not so sure of. I think there is a scientific expalnation behind everything. How your mind interperets is a differant ballgame.

i dont think "fact" exists as a universal whole. science or spiritual.

if one person thinks the imagery is science, or brain chemicals, and nothing more, than that is fact, for the person

if another thinks its a ghost of a friend or something similar, than that is fact, for that person.

what i see as green, is not a definate fact for everybody, you might think my green is your blue. there is no way to prove that every body has a universal experience of anything at all.

so yes,you dont need to question everything. just know your truths and facts are neuther right nor wrong nor real or fake. no two people have the same experence of anythng at all in this reality.

would reality exist if there was no consciousness observing it?

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would reality exist if there was no consciousness observing it?[/b]

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kinda like "if a tree fell in the forest and no one was there to hear it, does it make a sound?" right?

tis true.

would it make a sound?

would it even exist as a non fallen or fallen tree until a person came and found it?>

It doesn't matter what it is, but what I do know is that whatever it is, it exists because anything you can sense exists whether it is physical or not. Also, since it exists, I can put a label on it, and I happen to use the label Hypnogagic Imagery.

lol, lord soth here, to shoot down, stomp on, and burn that last post...

the world was percieved to be flat, if it was flat in the minds of every human being on earth, how did one or two people prove that it is round, since the whole world was disbelieving it, it must not be true, right?


lololol

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Originally posted by lord soth
lol, lord soth here, to shoot down, stomp on, and burn that last post...

the world was percieved to be flat, if it was flat in the minds of every human being on earth, how did one or two people prove that it is round, since the whole world was disbelieving it, it must not be true, right?


lololol

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are you swatting down me or the post above, because we both posted at the same time.

maybe it was flat before two people "discovered" it wasnt..
you have no proof otherwise :-)

heres an idea....... "nothing is true... this is all an illusion".... like the matrix... but....even the real reality is just an illusion......

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Originally posted by Nebulae
maybe it was flat before two people \"discovered\" it wasnt..
you have no proof otherwise :-)

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Ha! That is so amazingly true.

Fact, fiction, who really knows anything? For all you know, you are the only real person, and reality was created only for you, around your mind. And everyone else is just a dream character.

Edit: What insanejester said. ;)

Edit2: Albert Einstein also said, "Imagination is more important than knowledge." So.. in my opinion, it's incredibly important to keep your head above all the "facts".. otherwise you'll sink!

My philosophy is reality is what you make it. Only the person tho whoom thst reality aplies to can truly know it.

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Originally posted by Howetzer
I think there is a scientific expalnation behind everything. How your mind interperets is a differant ballgame.

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Saying there is a scientific explanation for everything is like saying we know all there is to know... It is more likely that there is more we DO NOT KNOW than there is that we do "know" since even what we "know" now is subject to change with new discoveries.

So it's quite a leap of faith to say that it is even POSSIBLE that there is a scientific (known) explanation for "everything."

Hypnagogic imagery is still a pretty generric explanation, so there is a lot of room for interpretation there. You don't have to adhere to one narrow paradigm in order to explain lucid dreaming in terms of hynagogic imagery. It is always good to at least acknowledge that there are various perspectives, even if we're not experts at explaining those perspectives.

All this talk of reality confuses me.

As far as I'm concerned, nothing exists. Not you, not me, not anyone, not anything. This is all just a strange fantasy, created by my non-existant mind.

But, just in case I'm wrong... I'm going to follow the rules of this supposed reality.

My philosophy is: If you talk about reality, your IQ drops 10 points. We know barely anything, to assume we know anything about reality is just as stupid as bitch-slapping a grizzly bear.

What if the grizzly bear was sedated! What then??

yeh YEH! What then?! :bravo:

yeh, YEH! What DEN?!
:D

yarr, wa daen

:roll:

Is this a big one ? Or a baby grizzly?

Awwwwww babies are cuuuute! :smitten:

Unless they cry every time you try to put them down!! :eh:

(I used to babysit. :roll: )

I believe that there is a distinct difference between reality and the dream world. This reality is the same for everyone. I'm not going to name any specifics but there are things that other people do that I, personally, would never do. I also don't believe in reincarnation, thereby closing a loop in my personal opinion.

I also believe that there is a reason for everything. Scientific reasons, not necessarily, but there are reasons. Even if dreaming is just to give our minds a break from the day, then that is a reason. I like sleep so I'm not going to complain about it or insist that I know why.....but that's just me.

Now, I know you're all nice ppl out there so you won't flame me for my opinion, right? *evil glare* Right?

-Amé

P.S. I do, however, believe the quote from The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde that "Man is not truly one, but two." I believe that the conscious mind and the subconscious mind (including the imagination) can act as separate entities. It's when they work together that people start to lose touch with reality. That's just my 2 bits.

evangel said:

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Saying there is a scientific explanation for everything is like saying we know all there is to know... It is more likely that there is more we DO NOT KNOW than there is that we do \"know\" since even what we \"know\" now is subject to change with new discoveries. *

So it's quite a leap of faith to say that it is even POSSIBLE that there is a scientific (known) explanation for \"everything.\"[/b]

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How do you connect the idea of knowing everything with the idea that there is a scientific explanation for everything? We definitely do not know everything and I would agree that there is probably more that we don't know than we do know.

Take the example of the world being flat. For centuries that was accepted as a scientific explanation of reality. Unfortunately for those people, that explanation turned out to be wrong. However, just because it was wrong does not mean that isn't a different scientific explanation for it. And voila, today we all know that the Earth is in fact spherical in nature.

My point is that just because we don't have scientific explanations for everything or just because some of those explanations may be wrong doesn't mean that there isn't a better one out there.

There is absolutely no reason to believe that everything can't be understood and explained by science. Righteously or not, I see religious thinking as giving up. People just accept their lack of understanding and make up fancy stories to explain the things that they do not put the effort in to understand.

ie.
Person #1: "Hey, how did the universe get here?"
Person #2: "Umm...I dunno, maybe some all-powerful, all-seeing, all-knowing guy did it and then left no proof of his existence."
Person #1: "Yeah that makes sense, let's tell all our friends about it."

Let's not forget who started Christianity; the poor and uneducated who were looking for something to live for. Also, let's not forget who wrote the Bible; people who were trying to convert other people to Christianity.

P.S. Sorry about the poor quality of that fictional conversation...it's 2:30 in the morning and I am really tired.

I agree with your statements bradybaker. Religion and science do not know the full picture.

All i can say now though is this
Religion-You have faith or you do not.
Science-With evidence it can answer and reveal anything.

:P

here is my opinion: (not that its possible for me to give anything but that)

people seem to be fusing perception and existance into the same thing so im going to try and seperate it out.

existance is the way things are, regardless of anything else. it isn't possible to know what exists.

it is only possible to assume and estimate what exists based on perceptions.

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As far as I'm concerned, nothing exists. Not you, not me, not anyone, not anything. This is all just a strange fantasy, created by my non-existant mind.[/b]

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its impossible for something to not exist. if it doesnt exist, then its not a thing! only nothing doesnt exist.

its also impossible for something to not have a explanation. even if something is completely random and uncaused, then randomness is the explanation. scientific explanations are just an understanding of something.

the only way to understand our own reality is to understand everything about our own brains and all our surroundings. even if we could, then our brains would be changing as we come to the understanding, and we would be wrong again.

its not really true that reality is whatever you want it to be either. its whatever it is. your wants are controlled by your reality.

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if a tree fell in the forest and no one was there to hear it, does it make a sound?
would it even exist as a non fallen or fallen tree until a person came and found it?[/b]

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if you ask a 6-year-old this, theyll be able to tell you the answer.
ask an adult, and all you'll get is reverse-logic and confusion!!

hope i added to the confusion :)

What would a 6 year old answer?

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Originally posted by evangel+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(evangel)</div>

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<!--QuoteBegin-Howetzer

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I think there is a scientific expalnation behind everything. How your mind interperets is a differant ballgame.

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Saying there is a scientific explanation for everything is like saying we know all there is to know... It is more likely that there is more we DO NOT KNOW than there is that we do \"know\" since even what we \"know\" now is subject to change with new discoveries.

So it's quite a leap of faith to say that it is even POSSIBLE that there is a scientific (known) explanation for \"everything.\"

Hypnagogic imagery is still a pretty generric explanation, so there is a lot of room for interpretation there. You don't have to adhere to one narrow paradigm in order to explain lucid dreaming in terms of hynagogic imagery. It is always good to at least acknowledge that there are various perspectives, even if we're not experts at explaining those perspectives.[/b]

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I feel you are taking my words out of context. Or misunderstandind where I am coming from.
True. I believe that there is a scientific explanation for everything that accurs. Where did I say there is a known explanation? In fact there are most likley more things science has not pinned down than there are things they have. That still doesn't mean that there is a cause an effect or an action for every equal an opposite reaction.
How did you derive the fact that I use a "Narrow paradigm" to explain somthing. More over I think if anything a scientific view is much more prone to be open minded than a religoius one!

If everything could be expalined then spirits, us as souls and mind then wouldn't really exist as free will would we. It would all be based on countless reactions, decisions made only based on an opposite equal type of reaction. All beings consciences would be like trillions of puzzle pieces fitting in based on the rules of eternity. The universe and exisdence can never be mapped out id say. As im in control of myself and i change what i want. Nor religion or science can answer all the questions. As above im not providing an answer, it's observation.

bradybaker = offends lord soth

The government is controlling us through everything . . . :shock:

Yes, I think we are brainwashed, in certain ways. I think reality is some sort of holographic projection from a pre-defined source, where that source is like a DVD, and the project is like a film playing from beginning to end, and time is our progress through the film. I think our minds are like the head within the DVD player that is at a particular point on the disk and most of the time that 'head' (i.e. our minds) is hard against the surface of that pre-defined source and we are not aware that we can lift off that surface if we want to. I think deja vu might be momentary glimpses of what lifting off that surface is like. You become aware of either side of where you are currently at and can scan ahead if you want to faster than time is progressing and therefore see what will happen before it does. Stranger than all of this, I think some people can modify the pre-defined source directly in much the same way that someone in a lucid dream alters the dream. I guess the analogy is that this pre-defined source is similar to the role of the subconscious within a lucid dream.

I probably havn't described it quite the way I think it, but that in a nutshell is my unified theory of life, dreams, & deja vu.

Haha you crazy! :D

The tree would know if it fell over,
and so would all the creatures living on/in/under/with it.

Isn't science just a process of reaching agreement and consensus about what's happening and why? IMO its not always helpful to know that the earth is round and goes around the sun - this is contrary to our direct experience of a flat earth with where the sun rises and sets. Science, by trying to claim the supremacy of objectivity, makes us question the validity of our own experience, and increases our separation from nature.

My ideas might be crazy, but when you think about it, there isn't much difference between what I have said and the belief by some that "nothing exists". :wink:

Well, nothing exists in the way we think it does...

lord soth wrote:

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bradybaker = offends lord soth[/b]

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Sorry man, that's just how I see things.

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If everything could be expalined then spirits, us as souls and mind then wouldn't really exist as free will would we. It would all be based on countless reactions, decisions made only based on an opposite equal type of reaction. All beings consciences would be like trillions of puzzle pieces fitting in based on the rules of eternity.[/b]

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I dont agree. Even if everything we do is based on predetermined physical events, we still have to actually do them, and since noone will ever be able to forecast exactly what is going to happen, it makes no difference to us. Those reactions dont just decide what we do, they are what we do and we are them.

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the six year old would say that the tree did fall over.

whether or not it makes a sound depends on your definition of a sound. if its your own perception then it doesnt exist. if its any living thing's perception then it may exist. if its an air pressure wave then it does exist. (obviously, the six year old would not say that)

i guess the tree actaully falling over also depends on your definition of "a tree falling over". - whether its the actual event, or your own perception of the event.

things never exist in exactly the way we think they do, but we can guess closely enough to get by... saying that, we only live for a hundred years or so, so we dont make a great job of it.

but if you believe that things only exist in perception, and dont 'really' exist - then why are you here? why talk to a bunch of people that dont exist? I dont think anyone truely believes that.
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