DC's are passive-defensive?

I don't what any of you think about this, but I have been looking through this forum and reading everyone's dream journals and dream recalls and what i have noticed is that whenever someone is lucid and they go up to a DC and try to talk to them about the act of dreaming by saying something like

"Do you know that you are just a figment of my imagination?"

or

"I am dreaming and you are not real, what do you think about that?"

99% of the time they usually either

1. Do not reply
2. Become hostile
3. Reply with some stupid answer like "well i guess that means the cat ate its own seesaw..."

I think this is a sign that your sub-conscious does not want you to know the secrets of dreaming, or maybe isn't fast enough to come up with a genuine reply quick enough. What do you all think about this?

anyone?

Very interesting question.

However, I lack the experience and knowledge about lucid dreaming as far as the scientific part and the subconcious's part in it, but yes, I suspect its that your subconcious fails to come up with a reply suitable to that.

Actually, thinking about it now, I don't think its failing to come up with a response, because a DC could easily say something like "That's crazy talk" or "You must be insane", but instead, I think its because you as the dreamer don't expect them to know how to reply, which causes them not to know.. (That might've sounded confusing)

or maybe your Sub C does not want you to know...

Its just the dreamers attitude. Lucid dreaming is a weird thing for them and they kind of think they are doing something they shouldent really be doing. And so their dream characters adopt that attitude.

I agree with Dizko, I think it's all up to the dreamer to some level. I don't think your subconcious would go to lengths you make you think you're awake.

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Originally Posted by Hercuflea

I don't what any of you think about this, but I have been looking through this forum and reading everyone's dream journals and dream recalls and what i have noticed is that whenever someone is lucid and they go up to a DC and try to talk to them about the act of dreaming by saying something like

"Do you know that you are just a figment of my imagination?"

or

"I am dreaming and you are not real, what do you think about that?"

99% of the time they usually either

1. Do not reply
2. Become hostile
3. Reply with some stupid answer like "well i guess that means the cat ate its own seesaw..."

I think this is a sign that your sub-conscious does not want you to know the secrets of dreaming, or maybe isn't fast enough to come up with a genuine reply quick enough. What do you all think about this?

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I think this is because of the lack of experience one has with this issue. Such an event does not occur in reality (asking someone if they realise that they are dreaming), and an individual has probably never tried such an act in reality. Naturally, your mind has no expectations of such a situation, hence, repsonses are nonsensical, or defensive (as the mind does not know how to react due to a lack of experience).

I notice my dream characters act as I'd expect in the waking world. once I ran up to my best friend while Lucid and told him he was my imagination and that whatever he said was just my subconcious. he just laughed at me! and if I tried to pull that off right now, I'd expect the same!

Not particularly, once I met a girl who's boyfriend had left her when she became pregnant, she was kicked out her house and she was not rich enough to support herself. This was a long while ago and I can't remember what it was that made me realise I was dreaming, I think it was the entire nature of how I felt- I just knew I was dreaming, but instead of just randomly flying around when I was lucid :P I decided to help her out and I said to her,

"I bet you didn't know that I am actually making you up, I'm practically like a God to be honest with you ;)"

and she replied with,

"Really?! Can you control everything that happens in the world then? :shock:"

I said-

"I guess so yes, but I'm going to wake up now, but before I go, I'm going to do one thing... Don't tell ANYONE I did this for you, but I'm going to give you a great big house and plenty of money to make your life better for you and your baby... O.K? :)"

She thanked me greatly and I hugged her. Then I said-

"Right... I need to go now, I probably wont ever see you again :( so I wish you the best of luck in life, everything will go smoothly for you from now now :D"

She said goodbye and I woke up haha :lol:

I think that you can expect a much clearer and constructed answer from a DC that you have known for longer period of time.
Thanks =]
Jim.

I find just asking DCs normal questions is rather amusing. You seem to get more out of this. I remember I was once dreaming of being in a co-op and telling my fellow DCs that they were dreaming. All the adults looked at me as if I was mental but funnily enough only the children understood!

I think too much of the logical brain is turned off so it can't think of a response quick enough.

i still think its something bigger, i think your sub-c is trying to hide something

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Originally Posted by Hercuflea

i still think its something bigger, i think your sub-c is trying to hide something

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Go ahead and think that. :) Why did you create this topic though if you aren't at least a LITTLE interested in observing other peoples opinions?

As for me, I think it is just what you expect. I haven't had much experiance myself, but from other peoples dreams I notice that whatever they EXPECT to happen will happen. If you don't know what on earth your DC could come up with, or you expect him/her to come up with something random, they will. On my first LD I told my eldest sister that I was dreaming and she didn't really exist. She just glared at me. (Then again, that might have been because I kept poking her)

P.S. Jim, I find that amusing because since she didn't exist, everything you said and did to/for her would just disapear. :P But I sorta do the same thing in my dreams so I can't really say anything. ;)

yeah i understand the expect thing you are talking about and it happens

last night i was lucid and instead of flipping a light switch i just "expected" that the light would intensify and it did

i wonder, though, if we can make up some kind of test to see what our minds can generate, or just research this any further

bump

In a sense though, doesn't it come down to how you define "real"? Does the fact that a DC has no physical substance mean it isn't "real"? A dream isn't "real"? You might as well say that your subconscious isn't "real".

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Originally Posted by Jimmehboi

Not particularly, once I met a girl who's boyfriend had left her when she became pregnant, she was kicked out her house and she was not rich enough to support herself. This was a long while ago and I can't remember what it was that made me realise I was dreaming, I think it was the entire nature of how I felt- I just knew I was dreaming, but instead of just randomly flying around when I was lucid :P I decided to help her out and I said to her,

"I bet you didn't know that I am actually making you up, I'm practically like a God to be honest with you ;)"

and she replied with,

"Really?! Can you control everything that happens in the world then? :shock:"

I said-

"I guess so yes, but I'm going to wake up now, but before I go, I'm going to do one thing... Don't tell ANYONE I did this for you, but I'm going to give you a great big house and plenty of money to make your life better for you and your baby... O.K? :)"

She thanked me greatly and I hugged her. Then I said-

"Right... I need to go now, I probably wont ever see you again :( so I wish you the best of luck in life, everything will go smoothly for you from now now :D"

She said goodbye and I woke up haha :lol:

I think that you can expect a much clearer and constructed answer from a DC that you have known for longer period of time.
Thanks =]
Jim.

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maybe you have found your dream guide.;)

deep.

Okay, but once a DC treated me as if I weren't real! What does that mean?

that you're triiiiiiiiiping out lol

Hmm, most of my DCs don't believe me when I tell them it's a dream, yeah.

The vast majority of my DCs are pretty much unintelligent cookie cutter people.

But my guide and a few others are different...my guide used to tell me I was asleep or dreaming or out of my body all the time, and that's how I'd get lucid sometimes. He always acted like it was pretty obvious. But interestingly, he has always insisted that he exists independently of my mind. :wtf:

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Originally Posted by WaaayOutThere

Okay, but once a DC treated me as if I weren't real! What does that mean?

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Originally Posted by Conquer

that you're triiiiiiiiiping out lol

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lmao im laughing at myself.

"the secrets of dreaming"
I like that.
I'm studying alot on dreaming, I mentioned on one thread that there is a new LD technique that makes you LD every night almost, without fail..Don't ask for it, I won't give it to you...
anyway, this new study I've been doing is what I call "breaking out". I'll post about it so I don't hijack your thread, but you might have something going here about your mind not wanting you to know something.

DCs are just there to have sex with, nothing more.

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Originally Posted by Conquer

Very interesting question.

However, I lack the experience and knowledge about lucid dreaming as far as the scientific part and the subconcious's part in it, but yes, I suspect its that your subconcious fails to come up with a reply suitable to that.

Actually, thinking about it now, I don't think its failing to come up with a response, because a DC could easily say something like "That's crazy talk" or "You must be insane", but instead, I think its because you as the dreamer don't expect them to know how to reply, which causes them not to know.. (That might've sounded confusing)

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I disagree with this assessment. I have meditated many times, and encountered characters that had a fair degree of autonomous response and ability to carry on rough conversations (like a crude AI). Think also about times when you are conversing with yourself in your own mind in everyday waking life, trying to figure a problem out. Sometimes the answer comes to you out of the blue rather quickly. So dream characters have the capacity to respond in a lifelike manner, its just in these circumstances they behave erratically.

MedicineCrow, I'm not saying that they are pre-set replies, I'm saying that when you're in a dream, a lot of the shape and form of the dream is because of your expectations, even if subconcious. If you've been working with cars all day, you're likely going to have a dream about cars. Someone who drives a lot will commonly have driving or cars as a dreamsign. The mind is capable of projecting a full sensory virtual environment - sight, touch, sound, smell, taste -- I don't doubt it's ability to come up with something to say, I think its because of your expectations that they lack the words. As an experiment, I think some lucid dreamers should try asking DC's certain strong questions like "Where are your thoughts coming from?" and things like that, but it would be important for the dreamer to expect an un-confused, intelligent response. Just my 2 cents.

To answer the original question, it coulod be that the DCs' replies to the idea that they don;t technically exost could be a reult of the dreamer's conviction that they themselff are real. If the dreamer, in real life, was told unexpectedly that they were a figment of another person;s imagination, they could either act with hostility, ignore the comment, or try to reason that they exist, either to themself or the other person. The response generated by the DC could be a result of the dreamer's inability to accept that they don;t exist (the dream character eing a part of their own mind), or they feel that allowing a character that is pure thought to realise they don;t exist would be tantamount to destroying that character. Someone ho recieves a response such as , "that's cool," or a discussion on the relative nonexistence could be either intrinsically nihilistic, or at ease with the possibility that they or the character do not exist. THis is just my opinion on the subject, I could be completely wrong, as I have no evidence or proof that this is the case.

When I don't try I have gotten some deep info from DCs. Yet when I look for knowledge from DCs, i am basically mocked for trying because the response usually aims to confuse me or make me lose lucidity. I don't try to interrogate DCs these days, I consider them all distractions at this point, i try to get away from everyone and experience the dream on my own.

Ill give an example of a dream I had a while ago that seemed like I was being informed by a DC, I doubt it was anything more than hallucination, but at the time it felt like a direct message from an intelligent person.

I was in an enormous store full of everything you can imagine. I was lucid and browsing the shelves looking in a section containing small home decorations. There was a check out counter behind me and I observed the man running the counter answering a ladies questions about some clothing she was purchasing, i watched her finish her purchase and move on. I figured I would try to make a purchase for fun to see how the interaction went. I picked up a small standing crucifix made of gold, (im not religious but I love the gospels, real or not, as you can see in my signature) As soon as I picked the cross up the man behind the counter shouted at me to put the cross back. I thought it was strange and asked him why, he explained that this store was a place that everyone on earth goes to when dreaming from time to time, he said each object represented desires and temptations, and each object purchased caused a specific tragedy to befall you in real life. He said that since I was lucid he could not allow me to cause myself suffering, and as I remember I was transported to another dream.

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Originally Posted by HyperNova

DCs are just there to have sex with, nothing more.

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you are wrong dc's are there to give your dreammore of a story. without them, there most likely would be no dream(or no good one anyway).