Thread: DC's are passive-defensive?

I don't what any of you think about this, but I have been looking through this forum and reading everyone's dream journals and dream recalls and what i have noticed is that whenever someone is lucid and they go up to a DC and try to talk to them about the act of dreaming by saying something like

"Do you know that you are just a figment of my imagination?"

or

"I am dreaming and you are not real, what do you think about that?"

99% of the time they usually either

1. Do not reply
2. Become hostile
3. Reply with some stupid answer like "well i guess that means the cat ate its own seesaw..."

I think this is a sign that your sub-conscious does not want you to know the secrets of dreaming, or maybe isn't fast enough to come up with a genuine reply quick enough. What do you all think about this?

anyone?

Very interesting question.

However, I lack the experience and knowledge about lucid dreaming as far as the scientific part and the subconcious's part in it, but yes, I suspect its that your subconcious fails to come up with a reply suitable to that.

Actually, thinking about it now, I don't think its failing to come up with a response, because a DC could easily say something like "That's crazy talk" or "You must be insane", but instead, I think its because you as the dreamer don't expect them to know how to reply, which causes them not to know.. (That might've sounded confusing)

or maybe your Sub C does not want you to know...

Its just the dreamers attitude. Lucid dreaming is a weird thing for them and they kind of think they are doing something they shouldent really be doing. And so their dream characters adopt that attitude.

I agree with Dizko, I think it's all up to the dreamer to some level. I don't think your subconcious would go to lengths you make you think you're awake.

Originally Posted by Conquer

Very interesting question.

However, I lack the experience and knowledge about lucid dreaming as far as the scientific part and the subconcious's part in it, but yes, I suspect its that your subconcious fails to come up with a reply suitable to that.

Actually, thinking about it now, I don't think its failing to come up with a response, because a DC could easily say something like "That's crazy talk" or "You must be insane", but instead, I think its because you as the dreamer don't expect them to know how to reply, which causes them not to know.. (That might've sounded confusing)

I disagree with this assessment. I have meditated many times, and encountered characters that had a fair degree of autonomous response and ability to carry on rough conversations (like a crude AI). Think also about times when you are conversing with yourself in your own mind in everyday waking life, trying to figure a problem out. Sometimes the answer comes to you out of the blue rather quickly. So dream characters have the capacity to respond in a lifelike manner, its just in these circumstances they behave erratically.

MedicineCrow, I'm not saying that they are pre-set replies, I'm saying that when you're in a dream, a lot of the shape and form of the dream is because of your expectations, even if subconcious. If you've been working with cars all day, you're likely going to have a dream about cars. Someone who drives a lot will commonly have driving or cars as a dreamsign. The mind is capable of projecting a full sensory virtual environment - sight, touch, sound, smell, taste -- I don't doubt it's ability to come up with something to say, I think its because of your expectations that they lack the words. As an experiment, I think some lucid dreamers should try asking DC's certain strong questions like "Where are your thoughts coming from?" and things like that, but it would be important for the dreamer to expect an un-confused, intelligent response. Just my 2 cents.

To answer the original question, it coulod be that the DCs' replies to the idea that they don;t technically exost could be a reult of the dreamer's conviction that they themselff are real. If the dreamer, in real life, was told unexpectedly that they were a figment of another person;s imagination, they could either act with hostility, ignore the comment, or try to reason that they exist, either to themself or the other person. The response generated by the DC could be a result of the dreamer's inability to accept that they don;t exist (the dream character eing a part of their own mind), or they feel that allowing a character that is pure thought to realise they don;t exist would be tantamount to destroying that character. Someone ho recieves a response such as , "that's cool," or a discussion on the relative nonexistence could be either intrinsically nihilistic, or at ease with the possibility that they or the character do not exist. THis is just my opinion on the subject, I could be completely wrong, as I have no evidence or proof that this is the case.

Originally Posted by Hercuflea

I don't what any of you think about this, but I have been looking through this forum and reading everyone's dream journals and dream recalls and what i have noticed is that whenever someone is lucid and they go up to a DC and try to talk to them about the act of dreaming by saying something like

"Do you know that you are just a figment of my imagination?"

or

"I am dreaming and you are not real, what do you think about that?"

99% of the time they usually either

1. Do not reply
2. Become hostile
3. Reply with some stupid answer like "well i guess that means the cat ate its own seesaw..."

I think this is a sign that your sub-conscious does not want you to know the secrets of dreaming, or maybe isn't fast enough to come up with a genuine reply quick enough. What do you all think about this?

I think this is because of the lack of experience one has with this issue. Such an event does not occur in reality (asking someone if they realise that they are dreaming), and an individual has probably never tried such an act in reality. Naturally, your mind has no expectations of such a situation, hence, repsonses are nonsensical, or defensive (as the mind does not know how to react due to a lack of experience).

I notice my dream characters act as I'd expect in the waking world. once I ran up to my best friend while Lucid and told him he was my imagination and that whatever he said was just my subconcious. he just laughed at me! and if I tried to pull that off right now, I'd expect the same!

Not particularly, once I met a girl who's boyfriend had left her when she became pregnant, she was kicked out her house and she was not rich enough to support herself. This was a long while ago and I can't remember what it was that made me realise I was dreaming, I think it was the entire nature of how I felt- I just knew I was dreaming, but instead of just randomly flying around when I was lucid I decided to help her out and I said to her,

"I bet you didn't know that I am actually making you up, I'm practically like a God to be honest with you "

and she replied with,

"Really?! Can you control everything that happens in the world then? "

I said-

"I guess so yes, but I'm going to wake up now, but before I go, I'm going to do one thing... Don't tell ANYONE I did this for you, but I'm going to give you a great big house and plenty of money to make your life better for you and your baby... O.K? "

She thanked me greatly and I hugged her. Then I said-

"Right... I need to go now, I probably wont ever see you again so I wish you the best of luck in life, everything will go smoothly for you from now now "

She said goodbye and I woke up haha

I think that you can expect a much clearer and constructed answer from a DC that you have known for longer period of time.
Thanks =]
Jim.

I find just asking DCs normal questions is rather amusing. You seem to get more out of this. I remember I was once dreaming of being in a co-op and telling my fellow DCs that they were dreaming. All the adults looked at me as if I was mental but funnily enough only the children understood!

I think too much of the logical brain is turned off so it can't think of a response quick enough.

Originally Posted by Jimmehboi

Not particularly, once I met a girl who's boyfriend had left her when she became pregnant, she was kicked out her house and she was not rich enough to support herself. This was a long while ago and I can't remember what it was that made me realise I was dreaming, I think it was the entire nature of how I felt- I just knew I was dreaming, but instead of just randomly flying around when I was lucid I decided to help her out and I said to her,

"I bet you didn't know that I am actually making you up, I'm practically like a God to be honest with you "

and she replied with,

"Really?! Can you control everything that happens in the world then? "

I said-

"I guess so yes, but I'm going to wake up now, but before I go, I'm going to do one thing... Don't tell ANYONE I did this for you, but I'm going to give you a great big house and plenty of money to make your life better for you and your baby... O.K? "

She thanked me greatly and I hugged her. Then I said-

"Right... I need to go now, I probably wont ever see you again so I wish you the best of luck in life, everything will go smoothly for you from now now "

She said goodbye and I woke up haha

I think that you can expect a much clearer and constructed answer from a DC that you have known for longer period of time.
Thanks =]
Jim.

maybe you have found your dream guide.