Questioning Reality

From the Lucidity Institute’s website:

“The experience of being in a lucid dream clearly demonstrates the astonishing fact that the world we see is a construct of our minds. This concept, so elusive when sought in waking life, is the cornerstone of spiritual teachings. It forces us to look beyond everyday experience and ask, "If this is not real, what is?" Lucid dreaming, by so baldly baring a truth that many spend lives seeking, often triggers spiritual questioning in people who try it for far more mundane purposes. Not only does lucid dreaming lead to questioning the nature of reality, but for many it also has been a source of transcendent experience. Exalted and ecstatic states are common in lucid dreams. EWLD presents several cases of individuals achieving states of union with the Highest, great peace and a new sense of their roles in life.”

This freaks me out and is one of the reasons I have been scared of trying LDing for a while. The absolute last thing I want is to be questioning everything – being wide awake, wondering if everything that’s happening to me is real, or if it’s just a hallucination - or to have my perspective on life, death and the universe significantly altered. At the moment, I believe waking life is real, and LDs are entirely created by our own minds. What do others feel? Has having LDs made you question the nature of reality, and whether waking life is real? In what ways has it changed your perspective on things ?

Thanks
-heebs

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Originally Posted by heebiejeebies

From the Lucidity Institute’s website:

“The experience of being in a lucid dream clearly demonstrates the astonishing fact that the world we see is a construct of our minds. This concept, so elusive when sought in waking life, is the cornerstone of spiritual teachings. It forces us to look beyond everyday experience and ask, "If this is not real, what is?" Lucid dreaming, by so baldly baring a truth that many spend lives seeking, often triggers spiritual questioning in people who try it for far more mundane purposes. Not only does lucid dreaming lead to questioning the nature of reality, but for many it also has been a source of transcendent experience. Exalted and ecstatic states are common in lucid dreams. EWLD presents several cases of individuals achieving states of union with the Highest, great peace and a new sense of their roles in life.”

This freaks me out and is one of the reasons I have been scared of trying LDing for a while. The absolute last thing I want is to be questioning everything – being wide awake, wondering if everything that’s happening to me is real, or if it’s just a hallucination - or to have my perspective on life, death and the universe significantly altered. At the moment, I believe waking life is real, and LDs are entirely created by our own minds. What do others feel? Has having LDs made you question the nature of reality, and whether waking life is real? In what ways has it changed your perspective on things ?

Thanks
-heebs

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From my not so pleasant experience of thinking like this. It's better/safer to accept reality as reality. By questioning reality if it's real or not, it actually weakens the border between dreaming and waking. It creates two realities..this one and the dream reality and I find the mind gets confused because it's only familiar with one reality, this one. So nope...there is only one reality and it's real as I have known it. I think it would be safer to know that as a fact and treat the reality checks for lucid dreaming as training...not dreaming.

IMJ

I think such things would be GOOD for you! They would make you think deeper and maybe help you gain sagacity.

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Originally Posted by Teeliumtrozzle

I think such things would be GOOD for you! They would make you think deeper and maybe help you gain sagacity.

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LOL..Yeah in way it is....as an excuse to ignore or haze out reality...:roll:.

IMJ

heebiejeebies, hi.

What's wrong with questioning everything you think you know? If no one ever questioned anything we would still be hunter/gatherers. Questions I believe are a focal point in the humans ability to evolve in everything including engineering and mathematics. So if it LDing dose in fact cause one to question everything that would be a good thing, or at least thats what I believe.:)

Just think of transcendental experiences as something that the ancients where intrigued with, (and questioned) many characters in the Bible had these experiences which led to a profound religious belief that many today still fallow with extreme faith.

You should never fear having your perceptions altered this is how we grow. LDing is a gift for these reasons and I believe should be embraced because of it.

I don't think there's anything wrong with questioning whether or not our reality is real. There are many ways to check to be sure if it is or not, the only thing that can happen, is you realize you're dreaming. Also, having your perspective on things change lets you see how your decisions can affect everyone else. A changing perspective is good in my opinion. It is when your perspective does not change, that is dangerous.

The statement does not mean that lucid dreaming will trick you into mistaking everything for an illusion. It means that you will realize the truth, that the world you live in only exists as a construct of your mind. Your wold is only made up of your thoughts and the information your senses can provide for you.

"Reality" is only determined by our perception of the world. If you perceive the waking world as being more of a reality than your dreams (which you probably should), then the waking world is your reality. No one's requiring you to change anything about your philosophical views on reality, life, death, anything like that (although they are probably asking you to think outside the box - question not the usual, but the unusual).

Besides, I have LDs just fine without having to ask myself: "What if this world is just the dream and my LDs are real?" or something far-fetched like that.

Thanks guys, from the sounds of that, I'm not going to wilfully pursue LDing any further. I'm already confused enough about life, death and the universe without confusing things further.

NOO!! Why would you say that!?!?

Just think of this as...a way to achieve lucidity for you. That's all it seems like to me. Nothing that needs to be overly thought over. Just as simple as that; a tool to help achieve lucidity.

So many words

So little substance

It is not a matter of questioning the things one sees

What is, Is


There is no denying the wind on your face,

The petal on the flower,

The raindrop falling on the lake

All is real


It is you, yourself, that comes into question

Just where do you fit into this realm of seeing, experiencing?

To answer that, you need to know just what your identity is in all this

What is your relationship to all of these "things" of reality?


If you dream, and you become lucid.....

What is it exactly that is lucid?

Is it you, your body/person? the name? all the associations with that name?

Or, is it a point of awareness that is lucid?

A point that is you, uniquely yours


The only point that will truly come into question will be yourself

If Lucid dreaming is seen as an instrument of great teaching

If it is not merely used as a playground, and extension of the ego

Then it becomes a key to unlocking many great answers


Keys played with

Continually held in the hands of an infant child

Seen as nothing but toys

Unlock nothing

With all due respect to the above poster, this is precisely why I don’t want my perceptions of reality altered. Whilst you may very well think there was something profound and transcendent in that poem, everyone else just thinks you’re a stoner. No offence. I really don’t want to end up like that.

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Originally Posted by heebiejeebies

With all due respect to the above poster, this is precisely why I don’t want my perceptions of reality altered. Whilst you may very well think there was something profound and transcendent in that poem, everyone else just thinks you’re a stoner. No offence. I really don’t want to end up like that.

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Stoner infers the use of drugs, or other outside influences

"Batshit Crazy":happyme: would be a little less misleading



Seriously though, lucidity is awareness. Once you start cultivating it in your dream state, it is likely going to spill over into every other facet of your life. That does not mean you will become like a "stoner", or a 60's hippie wannabe. You can go where you want with it. You are driving your own ship, and you only put into it what you want to get out of it.

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Originally Posted by NonDualistic

Keys played with
Continually held in the hands of an infant child
Seen as nothing but toys
Unlock nothing

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Actually, I think that is something to think about.

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Originally Posted by Schmaven

Actually, I think that is something to think about.

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Such keys are meant to be used and then let go of

To marvel at them and make more of them than they are

Hinderance

Obscurement

this is interesting :)

There is nothing you can hold onto - such a flux, but awareness
Forget watched objects, and become the watching, become lucidity, hold on to that which has never changed - You

Where is the fear now?

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Originally Posted by heebiejeebies

From the Lucidity Institute’s website:

“The experience of being in a lucid dream clearly demonstrates the astonishing fact that the world we see is a construct of our minds. This concept, so elusive when sought in waking life, is the cornerstone of spiritual teachings. It forces us to look beyond everyday experience and ask, "If this is not real, what is?" Lucid dreaming, by so baldly baring a truth that many spend lives seeking, often triggers spiritual questioning in people who try it for far more mundane purposes. Not only does lucid dreaming lead to questioning the nature of reality, but for many it also has been a source of transcendent experience. Exalted and ecstatic states are common in lucid dreams. EWLD presents several cases of individuals achieving states of union with the Highest, great peace and a new sense of their roles in life.”

This freaks me out and is one of the reasons I have been scared of trying LDing for a while. The absolute last thing I want is to be questioning everything – being wide awake, wondering if everything that’s happening to me is real, or if it’s just a hallucination - or to have my perspective on life, death and the universe significantly altered. At the moment, I believe waking life is real, and LDs are entirely created by our own minds. What do others feel? Has having LDs made you question the nature of reality, and whether waking life is real? In what ways has it changed your perspective on things ?

Thanks
-heebs

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Yeah, but counterfeit money (no matter how real) does not disprove the existence of real money. Lucidity, is just a very credible copy of reality.

At least you can see how other people view their experiences. Some take them more spiritually than others.

I don't question my reality, in fact, I can tell them apart very acutely (which is what makes you lucid in the first place). So no, I don't think it would mess you up or anything. LDs will not screw you up or make you question anything unless you are suceptible to that type of thing.

Go ahead, try it. You'll have to work at it anyway, and will find yourself more at your reality than you'd like, after you get a taste.

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Originally Posted by heebiejeebies

This freaks me out and is one of the reasons I have been scared of trying LDing for a while.

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Don't be scared, it's all a marketing stunt. Lucidity Institute has to sell the idea of lucidity, and so they have to impress people. They may say it helps you with creativity or something, and now they say it's linked with spirituality. It's all aimed at people who're easily impressed by marketing ploys.
But it isn't true. You won't get a thought to question reality if you aren't philosophically inclined, and even then it will be merely a philosophical thought that won't influence your life or behaviour. Your perception of reality will not be altered.
You know, it's like "Is there life on Venus"? You may get such a thought, but you won't truly be interested or considering it seriously, you'll just find it amusing and that's all.

P.S.
If such info can help you, I've had LDs for about 10 years now, and never questioned reality. You may occasionally hear how somebody says his dreams are as vivid as reality, but don't pay attention to boasting, such people just want to impress listeners, in reality they always know when they're dreaming.
It's like all of these topics "I had a LD!!!!!!", "A great new way to WILD!!!!!", etc., people just being excited and wanting to share. In the same way a certain type of people may mislead you into thinking that you can become seriously confused about dreams and reality, because they think that it will impress you that they're "advanced" or "philosophical" enough to talk about such things.

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Originally Posted by NonDualistic

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Hey guy, you get high from how cool and "spiritual" you are, aren't you?
Stop confusing the starter of this topic, he was asking a serious question and didn't need attention-hungry people to "impress" him by repeating what they read somewhere and about what they now imagine themselves to be "knowledgeable".

This is why I took a break from my LD pursuit. After I had my first LD a couple of weeks ago I realized they I dont want to do RCs all the time and always be questioning things just for the sake of being aware in something that isnt real* and will eventually be forgotten like all other dreams. After living 19 years and then "living" in a dream there is no question in my mind which one is real (as real is normally defined)

And fortunatly, as of last night, I have found a way to have LDs without having to do RCs and other such nonsense throughtout the day (we will see if it was just a fluke)

*waits for someone to go "bu but your waking life isnt real either!1!1 real life is a dream!1!!"

roff

I don't think questioning your reality will change your waking life one bit. I don't think it will make the line between reality and dreaming any less clear in the real world. You only do it so you will question your reality in your dreams. It like a rollover effect. In your dreams is when you need to question it so you can be lucid, and that will be the only difference.

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Originally Posted by IWantToChange

Hey guy, you get high from how cool and "spiritual" you are, aren't you?
Stop confusing the starter of this topic, he was asking a serious question and didn't need attention-hungry people to "impress" him by repeating what they read somewhere and about what they now imagine themselves to be "knowledgeable".

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If you really want to change , you must begin by seeing past your own ego...


just as the OP must learn to see past his own ego and therefore his own fear

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Originally Posted by heebiejeebies

From the Lucidity Institute’s website:

“The experience of being in a lucid dream clearly demonstrates the astonishing fact that the world we see is a construct of our minds. This concept, so elusive when sought in waking life, is the cornerstone of spiritual teachings. It forces us to look beyond everyday experience and ask, "If this is not real, what is?" Lucid dreaming, by so baldly baring a truth that many spend lives seeking, often triggers spiritual questioning in people who try it for far more mundane purposes. Not only does lucid dreaming lead to questioning the nature of reality, but for many it also has been a source of transcendent experience. Exalted and ecstatic states are common in lucid dreams. EWLD presents several cases of individuals achieving states of union with the Highest, great peace and a new sense of their roles in life.”

This freaks me out and is one of the reasons I have been scared of trying LDing for a while. The absolute last thing I want is to be questioning everything – being wide awake, wondering if everything that’s happening to me is real, or if it’s just a hallucination - or to have my perspective on life, death and the universe significantly altered. At the moment, I believe waking life is real, and LDs are entirely created by our own minds. What do others feel? Has having LDs made you question the nature of reality, and whether waking life is real? In what ways has it changed your perspective on things ?

Thanks
-heebs

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I've always been one to question the world around me, including the nature of reality. I think it is pretty normal to do so, and I believe many people reach this point sometime in their lives. I would encourage you to go forward and explore this realm for yourself. Lucid dreaming is an excellent way of finding meaning and purpose for things you are unsure of. Do not fear it. Think of dreaming lucidly as a way of moving you closer to the truth and what is real rather than farther away from it.

As far as my perspective is concerned, I can say LDing has certainly given me more insight into my own sense of purpose in this world. It has also provided me with a greater sense of well-being and confidence, which transcends into my waking life.

Thanks for the replies everyone. I really don't want to start questioning everything, despite the encouragement of some of the posters to do so. Some may wish to do that and find it enlightening, but I don't. Anyway, by the looks of it, LDing won't make me do that if I'm not already that way inclined. That's fine. My other concern, which just dawned on me, is that since I am scared of LDing, I'll probably always wake myself up once I become aware (same as what happened last week.) If I have the guts to see it through despite my fears, then there's probably a good chance my mind will create a scary dream, is there not?

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Originally Posted by heebiejeebies

Thanks for the replies everyone. I really don't want to start questioning everything, despite the encouragement of some of the posters to do so. Some may wish to do that and find it enlightening, but I don't. Anyway, by the looks of it, LDing won't make me do that if I'm not already that way inclined. That's fine. My other concern, which just dawned on me, is that since I am scared of LDing, I'll probably always wake myself up once I become aware (same as what happened last week.) If I have the guts to see it through despite my fears, then there's probably a good chance my mind will create a scary dream, is there not?

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You said what I wanted to say, but better.

There's no reason that your mind will make the dream go nightmare. Unless you expect it to! In fact, many people become lucid in a dream because they had a nightmare. They realized that the monster wasn't real, and kicked its butt, or befriended it, or chatted with it. If you know that it's a dream, and nothing can truly hurt you, then have no fear! =)

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Originally Posted by RunflaCruiser

I don't think questioning your reality will change your waking life one bit. I don't think it will make the line between reality and dreaming any less clear in the real world. You only do it so you will question your reality in your dreams. It like a rollover effect. In your dreams is when you need to question it so you can be lucid, and that will be the only difference.

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Thank you. That about sums it up.

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Originally Posted by ZmillA

This is why I took a break from my LD pursuit. After I had my first LD a couple of weeks ago I realized they I dont want to do RCs all the time and always be questioning things just for the sake of being aware in something that isnt real* and will eventually be forgotten like all other dreams.

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Not to be rude, but I wonder why you're here if that's your attitude towards lucid dreaming...I mean, sure, you took a break. But why come back if you think about it like that?

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Originally Posted by Abra

You said what I wanted to say, but better.

There's no reason that your mind will make the dream go nightmare. Unless you expect it to! In fact, many people become lucid in a dream because they had a nightmare. They realized that the monster wasn't real, and kicked its butt, or befriended it, or chatted with it. If you know that it's a dream, and nothing can truly hurt you, then have no fear! =)

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I guess so ! I was thinking of times when I've woken up suddenly in the middle of the night with sleep paralysis, convinced that I was being attacked by something evil. I didn't want whatever fear caused that dream to give me nasty LDs. But I guess if I'm aware, I'll know not to worry. Hopefully.

Thanks =)

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Originally Posted by NonDualistic

If you really want to change , you must begin by seeing past your own ego...
just as the OP must learn to see past his own ego and therefore his own fear

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It's always funny how an attention-hungry "spiritual" person with a big ego teaches others to be egoless, man. I wasn't asking for your ignorant advice, was I? :)

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Originally Posted by IWantToChange

It's always funny how an attention-hungry "spiritual" person with a big ego teaches others to be egoless, man. I wasn't asking for your ignorant advice, was I? :)

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We laugh at the ego, the object.

Laugh along, and drop it as equal. Be free.

This is no spirituality. It is an embracing of all, body and spirit, humanity and existence.

To be instead of become. To living'ness' instead of living. You cannot escape it, even ego and reality-doubting is a manifestation of reality.

One more teacher *sigh* who imagines that he knows something...
Cloud, I wasn't asking you to share your highly valuable thoughts. :) Please stay away and mind your own business.

i thought it was real the other day but it was a dream when i woke up. It scared me alot.

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Originally Posted by IWantToChange

One more teacher *sigh* who imagines that he knows something...
Cloud, I wasn't asking you to share your highly valuable thoughts. :) Please stay away and mind your own business.

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Teaching/teacher.

Minding/mind.

My thoughts have as little value as yours. I am God.

Such words, and you see them and not their meaning.

It is so late to sleep.

It's unfortunate that you took that statement the wrong way.

It didn't mean that you would start thinking life is not real. It just means that Lucid Dreaming can trigger the desire to come to a deeper understanding of what reality is. For many people it doesn't even do that, I don't think.

Physics already teaches that the physical world is an illusion made up of nothing but energy particles congealed into seeming solidity. To form not only the environment we exist in, but also the bodies we use to exist in it.

That doesn't mean life isn't real. It just means we have a lot to learn about what real is.:D

There is no reason you can't get Lucid just for fun and ignore the philosophies, if you don't want to contemplate such things.

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Originally Posted by ClouD

Such words, and you see them and not their meaning.

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Why do you care? I can tell you the obvious: you think you're wise and want to teach poor little me to be more like a wise spiritual you :) But you're in no way wise or spiritual, you're a nobody in that department, a dreamer... Didn't you feel how unpleasant it sounded? That was your ego making the truth sound bad, just like it was writing your posts, thinking that they make you look cool.
I hope someday you'll be honest enough with yourself to see through your own ego-driven behaviour. It's important to a person who wants to get rid of ego.

P.S. Just to make it clear: you can't assume from the nick alone what it is about, so don't waste your valuable time, I do not care much for egos.

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Originally Posted by IWantToChange

Why do you care? I can tell you the obvious: you think you're wise and want to teach poor little me to be more like a wise spiritual you :) But you're in no way wise or spiritual, you're a nobody in that department, a dreamer... Didn't you feel how unpleasant it sounded? That was your ego making the truth sound bad, just like it was writing your posts, thinking that they make you look cool.
I hope someday you'll be honest enough with yourself to see through your own ego-driven behaviour. It's important to a person who wants to get rid of ego.

P.S. Just to make it clear: you can't assume from the nick alone what it is about, so don't waste your valuable time, I do not care much for egos.

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Who is the one who "wants" to get rid of the ego, if not the ego itself?

'it" is that which wants

it is that which critisizes and condemns

that which calls names, pokes and assails

that which has a need to defend

that which takes offense

that which prefers one thing over another

"it" is that which brings itself out on those around "it"


Even now

I watch it stir

See its restlessness

Witness it in your presence


Within, You are a great teacher

Teachingness expresses

Focusing Us

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Originally Posted by psychology student

Yeah, but counterfeit money (no matter how real) does not disprove the existence of real money. Lucidity, is just a very credible copy of reality.

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Yes, that is a very good point PS. I am inclined to agree.

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Originally Posted by heebiejeebies

Thanks for the replies everyone. I really don't want to start questioning everything, despite the encouragement of some of the posters to do so. Some may wish to do that and find it enlightening, but I don't. Anyway, by the looks of it, LDing won't make me do that if I'm not already that way inclined.

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I just wanted to backup that its purely a personal decision as to how you look upon lucid dreams. The science behind LD'ing is just as prevalent as the spiritual and philosophical views you'll find. Even reality checking in which you directly question if you're awake or dreaming during the day doesnt have to be a philosophical practice, you're simply trying to build the habit of checking whether you're dreaming in hopes that you'll do the same in a dream. Aslong as you keep in mind why you're doing it you should never actually ponder the nature of the real world unless you want to.

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Originally Posted by IWantToChange

Why do you care? I can tell you the obvious: you think you're wise and want to teach poor little me to be more like a wise spiritual you :) But you're in no way wise or spiritual, you're a nobody in that department, a dreamer... Didn't you feel how unpleasant it sounded? That was your ego making the truth sound bad, just like it was writing your posts, thinking that they make you look cool.
I hope someday you'll be honest enough with yourself to see through your own ego-driven behaviour. It's important to a person who wants to get rid of ego.

P.S. Just to make it clear: you can't assume from the nick alone what it is about, so don't waste your valuable time, I do not care much for egos.

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You are great Teacher. Teaching-ness is what We drip, of nothingness.

You're guests in my thread, kids. Be nice !

I would think it would give you a greater understanding of what you think reality is.

OK, let's make this the "heebiejeebies paranoia and reassurances" thread. One more for you - what about oobies? Is it possible to have them without willing them, when you were actually just trying to have a lucid dream? I've heard people say they are related, but I really only want to do lucid dreaming. I don't want to go anywhere near the other stuff.

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Originally Posted by heebiejeebies

OK, let's make this the "heebiejeebies paranoia and reassurances" thread. One more for you - what about oobies? Is it possible to have them without willing them, when you were actually just trying to have a lucid dream? I've heard people say they are related, but I really only want to do lucid dreaming. I don't want to go anywhere near the other stuff.

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The simplest way I can put this without sounding like a "stoner" is that you only find what you are looking for.

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Originally Posted by heebiejeebies

OK, let's make this the "heebiejeebies paranoia and reassurances" thread. One more for you - what about oobies? Is it possible to have them without willing them, when you were actually just trying to have a lucid dream? I've heard people say they are related, but I really only want to do lucid dreaming. I don't want to go anywhere near the other stuff.

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No, they're not related. And even if they were, it takes a heck of a lot longer to have an OOBE that an LD.

Thanks for your reply. Part of the reason for my question was fear, and the other part was just wanting to say the word "oobies". Hopefully it is all systems go now - I'll start trying some techniques this weekend.

Hehe...oobies..you should trademark that.

Anyways, good luck with trying you techniques. :) It'd be great if you posted results.

Great idea! I'll sue the estate of Roy Orbison for retrospectively breaching my trademark with his song "Oobie Doobie", then we can split the profits.

Anyway, thanks everyone, I'll post back if anything happens, assuming I don't chicken out half way through.

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Originally Posted by heebiejeebies

One more for you - what about oobies? Is it possible to have them without willing them, when you were actually just trying to have a lucid dream? I've heard people say they are related, but I really only want to do lucid dreaming. I don't want to go anywhere near the other stuff.

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They're basically the same, it's about how you fall asleep without losing consciousness. Some people have their attention on their body and have OBEs from that, some ignore it and enter a whole new lucid dream. You won't know until you've tried.
But if you want to have only lucid dreams, don't try WILDing just in case, and then the chances to have OBEs for you will be slim.

You seem to be so full of fear for lucid dreaming, no matter about what exactly, you just fear it. :( Once you get answers to one thing that you fear, you bring up something else...

Damn! I wish you hadn't written that. I preferred the previous answer, that it would never happen. :(

They are NOT the same. Like I said, you have to work WAY harder to have an OOBE than you do to have an LD. You can have an OOBE with every technique, but again, it takes work. You have nothing to worry about. Just think about all the cool things you can do in a Lucid Dream. It will come. As soon as you stop worrying!!! ;)

Hah, I'm not even sure if I'm interested in LDs anymore. The way my mind works is, whatever is the last thing to grab my attention is the only thing I care about. At the moment I'm far more interested in these alternative sleep patterns. One might very well argue that since I don't like my waking life, it's strange to want to spend even MORE time awake, rather than escaping into a magical fantasy world every night, but whatareyougonnado. ;)

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Originally Posted by Snowy Egypt

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No offense, but you shouldn't talk about something if you don't know much about it. You may confuse others.

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Originally Posted by heebiejeebies

Hah, I'm not even sure if I'm interested in LDs anymore. The way my mind works is, whatever is the last thing to grab my attention is the only thing I care about.

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Maybe you should try a couple of LDs before deciding if you're interested in them or not? As far as I understood, you haven't had them, so you cannot really decide. Maybe you'll like them so much that you'll forget all you thought before, many people are excited by LDs! :)
But yes, you're really strange... First you make a thread about LDs and things related to them, then you say you're not interested anymore :)
Good luck, though :)

Reality is something we perceive - ? And therefore completely subjective, unique to the individual.

If this is the case than unique reality exists in every conscious being in existence. If all conscious beings are "collectively conscious"; unified, than is all individual consciousness, collectively shared with one another?

If this is the case, reality is manipulated simply by your thoughts, actions, and intentions (collectively of course). This means there is no (1) reality, and therefore no right reality.

If you are perceiving, anything, doesnt that qualify for reality?

I just don't see the need to question reality - especially its existence

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Originally Posted by IWantToChange

No offense, but you shouldn't talk about something if you don't know much about it. You may confuse others.

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I'm not trying to confuse him. LDs and OOBEs aren't the same. Not even close.

Anyway, thanks to heebiejeebies, I'm interested in sleep patterns now. I'd say give him time with LDs, though.

sweetshoes18, That's very deep, and a good way to look at reality. Nice. :)

i think that we don't actually understand reality at all. while we have theories that can explain everything we see in our daily life, there's a lot that we have no idea what it is. and if we can't explain some of it we can't explain any of it via our expressions. that is why so much of reality is up to our minds. as we evolved there was an evolutionary necessity to see patterns and develop senses, which is what we base the majority of past descoveries and inventions on. it's only recently that people have had the courage to move beyond conventional "wisdom" and move on past our past selves. i think lucidity and especially the "dream yoga" that i read about a little while back are huge steps in realizing that our reality is just a convient clumping of things. and dreams are all over the place because we have no reason to cultivate them, until you become lucid. and when we realize that the way we see our dreams is no different from the way we see our waking life then we can let go of our conceptions of our "waking reality" that some people have trouble questioning. yeah it is scary to think about, but honestly it's not like every seconds you're gonna question reality it's too much to think about all the time. you'll just learn to appreciate things again. i feel that it's like being a kid again, to be enamored with just living. thats the way it should be.

"ohh im too scared to lucid dream!"

"oohh im too scared to think!!"

do you live in a box?? does your mommy dress you for fear to choose yourself?

your fear to think. your fear to question. your fear to experience. is a fear of LIVING. its not a fear of dreaming. so GROW UP. and QUESTION and THINK, like the rest of the adult humanity. because, you have no idea how LAME and PATHETIC it is to hear that someone is afraid to lucid dream. how lame and pathetic it is to hear that someone is afraid to THINK.

lucid dreaming isn't going to awaken your mind to any greater reality. not with your attitude. your mind awakens when you are adult enough. lucid dreaming doesn't magically transform you into something. it is simply awareness of dreaming. how far you carry that awareness is up to you.

but lucid dreaming can give you a damn good understanding of the dual relationship of reality, the objective and the subjective reality. how the two are different. and how the two are the same.

if you are too scared to THINK, leave. RIGHT NOW.

WHERE does the dream take place INSIDE the mind? if the mind is consciousness? and the consciousness is the dreamer? and the conscious dreamer is running around INSIDE the dream? how and why do we perceive a dream as an environment OUTSIDE of our mind when science tells us its actually in it?

if you walk through a fire in a dream and feel your whole body burning, what is burning if your body is safe and sound on your bed? what is doing the feeling of burning? and why is the feeling of burning so real? so real you scream? if there is no real fire? if there is no real body?

how do you scream in a dream if your vocal cords are asleep?

what is the substance of a dream body? the vehicle which allows us to run, jump and interact with the dream environment? is it an illusion? what is an illusion then? just signals in the brain telling us something is there?

do you know how science tells us how we perceive reality?.....through signals......what does this all mean? you will never know unless you ask. theres no harm. you'll only know more and grow and learn.

the waking life has continuity. what this means is, what you did yesterday is going to affect tomorrow. we can't go around do what ever the hell we want and never worry about consequences. because of continuity in this waking reality - illusionary or not - there are consequences.

now dreams tend to lack an outer continuity. that is, every night when we dream we tend to find ourselves in a new world. a new environment. a new kind of story. that what we do in one dream - DOES NOT AFFECT THE NEXT.

but it does have continuity of some sort. it turns out, everything in a dream is spawned from your subconscious. your subconscious is the seat of your emotions and memories. where do we get these memories and emotions from? from the WAKING world. are you dreams boring? well, if they are. your LIFE IS BORING.

when we lucid dream, we are now able to consciously control the dream. so now you don't have to dream about work. so now you don't have to dream about exams. or that scary dentist visit. now you can magically create a door for yourself and walk into wonderland.

lucidity means..AWARENESS. being aware of dream is no different than, BEING AWARE OF LIFE. the more AWARE you are in life, the more aware you are in sleep. the two realities, have a constant.

what is the point of questioning reality? what is it that lucid dreams offer us? there are a million and one discussions concerning this, going into strange eastern beliefs about maya. about the illusionary waking world *with very valid statements*. but the most IMPORTANT thing to walk away with is the understanding that there is a constant in both the subjective and objective reality. that there is a constant, even if you believe life is an illusion. that because this thing always IS existing, even in the illusionary maya, it must be the one thing that IS NOT AN ILLUSION. that this one thing - IS EXISTENCE. IS REALITY. that constant, that always IS - is -

you.

Blow it out your arse you pompous prick.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by heebiejeebies

From the Lucidity Institute’s website:


This freaks me out and is one of the reasons I have been scared of trying LDing for a while. The absolute last thing I want is to be questioning everything – being wide awake, wondering if everything that’s happening to me is real, or if it’s just a hallucination - or to have my perspective on life, death and the universe significantly altered. At the moment, I believe waking life is real, and LDs are entirely created by our own minds. What do others feel? Has having LDs made you question the nature of reality, and whether waking life is real? In what ways has it changed your perspective on things ?

Thanks
-heebs

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thats what I believe, and lucid dreaming really hasn't changed that, if anything its made that belief stronger. You definitely should not be afraid of LD-ing, because really its just dreaming with extra stuff, lol. Your fear will sound REALLY silly to anyone that has experienced a LD, very very few people get revelations of that magnitude from LDs and people who fear that for even a second are not likely AT ALL to be those people, IMO of course

Lucid dreaming is definately something you should not be afraid of.

Honestly I think that this thread is overcomplicating lucid dreaming and for people who haven't had a lucid dream it could seem a little overwhelming.

For me lucid dreaming has had no negative affects on my life and instead has given me more incentive to sleep and an ability to use what before were wasted hours of my life.

S’alright guys, I’m over this anyway. I only replied because I got the above messages through e-mail notification. Couldn’t work out how to LD; had a couple of close calls where I dreamt I was LDing but wasn’t actually, then gave up. Moved on to bigger and better things like hitting myself in the head with a cast iron frying pan.

I believe I was already questioning everything before I began to fully explore the world of LD. You are afraid of LD preceding the other. Perhaps for me the questioning preceded exploration of LD.

Lucid dreaming won't make you question what you know, because you don't know anything. The more you learn, whether you study science, philosophy, religion, politics, law, or anything else, the more you'll discover that there are no definite answers, just assumptions that you consider more valid than other assumptions for various reasons.

Don't fear change, you can't ever prevent your perspective from changing; you can only choose whether or not to accept and be aware of these changes, or ignore and be unaware of them.

Part of maturity is understanding that your perspective won't ever be the right one, can't possibly take everything into account, and isn't who you are. It's just a compilation of assumptions put together in a way that lets you create generalizations about your past experiences, so you don't feel like you're stepping into the unknown when you get out of bed in the morning.

If you understand that these generalizations are just your mind recognizing patterns in past experiences so you feel like you have more of a grasp on reality than you actually do, the familiar stops seeming inherently positive, and change and the unknown stop seeming inherently negative.

E: I really hope you don't abandon this thread or your interest in lucid dreaming, because (patronizing as some of our posts may sound) we all want to help you learn a skill that can only be positive and useful to you.