Thread: Questioning Reality

Originally Posted by heebiejeebies

From the Lucidity Institute’s website:

“The experience of being in a lucid dream clearly demonstrates the astonishing fact that the world we see is a construct of our minds. This concept, so elusive when sought in waking life, is the cornerstone of spiritual teachings. It forces us to look beyond everyday experience and ask, "If this is not real, what is?" Lucid dreaming, by so baldly baring a truth that many spend lives seeking, often triggers spiritual questioning in people who try it for far more mundane purposes. Not only does lucid dreaming lead to questioning the nature of reality, but for many it also has been a source of transcendent experience. Exalted and ecstatic states are common in lucid dreams. EWLD presents several cases of individuals achieving states of union with the Highest, great peace and a new sense of their roles in life.”

This freaks me out and is one of the reasons I have been scared of trying LDing for a while. The absolute last thing I want is to be questioning everything – being wide awake, wondering if everything that’s happening to me is real, or if it’s just a hallucination - or to have my perspective on life, death and the universe significantly altered. At the moment, I believe waking life is real, and LDs are entirely created by our own minds. What do others feel? Has having LDs made you question the nature of reality, and whether waking life is real? In what ways has it changed your perspective on things ?

Thanks
-heebs

From my not so pleasant experience of thinking like this. It's better/safer to accept reality as reality. By questioning reality if it's real or not, it actually weakens the border between dreaming and waking. It creates two realities..this one and the dream reality and I find the mind gets confused because it's only familiar with one reality, this one. So nope...there is only one reality and it's real as I have known it. I think it would be safer to know that as a fact and treat the reality checks for lucid dreaming as training...not dreaming.

IMJ

I think such things would be GOOD for you! They would make you think deeper and maybe help you gain sagacity.

Originally Posted by Teeliumtrozzle

I think such things would be GOOD for you! They would make you think deeper and maybe help you gain sagacity.

LOL..Yeah in way it is....as an excuse to ignore or haze out reality....

IMJ

heebiejeebies, hi.

What's wrong with questioning everything you think you know? If no one ever questioned anything we would still be hunter/gatherers. Questions I believe are a focal point in the humans ability to evolve in everything including engineering and mathematics. So if it LDing dose in fact cause one to question everything that would be a good thing, or at least thats what I believe.

Just think of transcendental experiences as something that the ancients where intrigued with, (and questioned) many characters in the Bible had these experiences which led to a profound religious belief that many today still fallow with extreme faith.

You should never fear having your perceptions altered this is how we grow. LDing is a gift for these reasons and I believe should be embraced because of it.

I don't think there's anything wrong with questioning whether or not our reality is real. There are many ways to check to be sure if it is or not, the only thing that can happen, is you realize you're dreaming. Also, having your perspective on things change lets you see how your decisions can affect everyone else. A changing perspective is good in my opinion. It is when your perspective does not change, that is dangerous.

The statement does not mean that lucid dreaming will trick you into mistaking everything for an illusion. It means that you will realize the truth, that the world you live in only exists as a construct of your mind. Your wold is only made up of your thoughts and the information your senses can provide for you.

"Reality" is only determined by our perception of the world. If you perceive the waking world as being more of a reality than your dreams (which you probably should), then the waking world is your reality. No one's requiring you to change anything about your philosophical views on reality, life, death, anything like that (although they are probably asking you to think outside the box - question not the usual, but the unusual).

Besides, I have LDs just fine without having to ask myself: "What if this world is just the dream and my LDs are real?" or something far-fetched like that.

Thanks guys, from the sounds of that, I'm not going to wilfully pursue LDing any further. I'm already confused enough about life, death and the universe without confusing things further.

NOO!! Why would you say that!?!?

Just think of this as...a way to achieve lucidity for you. That's all it seems like to me. Nothing that needs to be overly thought over. Just as simple as that; a tool to help achieve lucidity.

So many words

So little substance

It is not a matter of questioning the things one sees

What is, Is


There is no denying the wind on your face,

The petal on the flower,

The raindrop falling on the lake

All is real


It is you, yourself, that comes into question

Just where do you fit into this realm of seeing, experiencing?

To answer that, you need to know just what your identity is in all this

What is your relationship to all of these "things" of reality?


If you dream, and you become lucid.....

What is it exactly that is lucid?

Is it you, your body/person? the name? all the associations with that name?

Or, is it a point of awareness that is lucid?

A point that is you, uniquely yours


The only point that will truly come into question will be yourself

If Lucid dreaming is seen as an instrument of great teaching

If it is not merely used as a playground, and extension of the ego

Then it becomes a key to unlocking many great answers


Keys played with

Continually held in the hands of an infant child

Seen as nothing but toys

Unlock nothing

With all due respect to the above poster, this is precisely why I don’t want my perceptions of reality altered. Whilst you may very well think there was something profound and transcendent in that poem, everyone else just thinks you’re a stoner. No offence. I really don’t want to end up like that.

Originally Posted by heebiejeebies

With all due respect to the above poster, this is precisely why I don’t want my perceptions of reality altered. Whilst you may very well think there was something profound and transcendent in that poem, everyone else just thinks you’re a stoner. No offence. I really don’t want to end up like that.

Stoner infers the use of drugs, or other outside influences

"Batshit Crazy" would be a little less misleading



Seriously though, lucidity is awareness. Once you start cultivating it in your dream state, it is likely going to spill over into every other facet of your life. That does not mean you will become like a "stoner", or a 60's hippie wannabe. You can go where you want with it. You are driving your own ship, and you only put into it what you want to get out of it.

Originally Posted by NonDualistic

Keys played with
Continually held in the hands of an infant child
Seen as nothing but toys
Unlock nothing

Actually, I think that is something to think about.

Originally Posted by Schmaven

Actually, I think that is something to think about.

Such keys are meant to be used and then let go of

To marvel at them and make more of them than they are

Hinderance

Obscurement

this is interesting

There is nothing you can hold onto - such a flux, but awareness
Forget watched objects, and become the watching, become lucidity, hold on to that which has never changed - You

Where is the fear now?

Originally Posted by heebiejeebies

From the Lucidity Institute’s website:

“The experience of being in a lucid dream clearly demonstrates the astonishing fact that the world we see is a construct of our minds. This concept, so elusive when sought in waking life, is the cornerstone of spiritual teachings. It forces us to look beyond everyday experience and ask, "If this is not real, what is?" Lucid dreaming, by so baldly baring a truth that many spend lives seeking, often triggers spiritual questioning in people who try it for far more mundane purposes. Not only does lucid dreaming lead to questioning the nature of reality, but for many it also has been a source of transcendent experience. Exalted and ecstatic states are common in lucid dreams. EWLD presents several cases of individuals achieving states of union with the Highest, great peace and a new sense of their roles in life.”

This freaks me out and is one of the reasons I have been scared of trying LDing for a while. The absolute last thing I want is to be questioning everything – being wide awake, wondering if everything that’s happening to me is real, or if it’s just a hallucination - or to have my perspective on life, death and the universe significantly altered. At the moment, I believe waking life is real, and LDs are entirely created by our own minds. What do others feel? Has having LDs made you question the nature of reality, and whether waking life is real? In what ways has it changed your perspective on things ?

Thanks
-heebs

Yeah, but counterfeit money (no matter how real) does not disprove the existence of real money. Lucidity, is just a very credible copy of reality.

At least you can see how other people view their experiences. Some take them more spiritually than others.

I don't question my reality, in fact, I can tell them apart very acutely (which is what makes you lucid in the first place). So no, I don't think it would mess you up or anything. LDs will not screw you up or make you question anything unless you are suceptible to that type of thing.

Go ahead, try it. You'll have to work at it anyway, and will find yourself more at your reality than you'd like, after you get a taste.

Originally Posted by heebiejeebies

This freaks me out and is one of the reasons I have been scared of trying LDing for a while.

Don't be scared, it's all a marketing stunt. Lucidity Institute has to sell the idea of lucidity, and so they have to impress people. They may say it helps you with creativity or something, and now they say it's linked with spirituality. It's all aimed at people who're easily impressed by marketing ploys.
But it isn't true. You won't get a thought to question reality if you aren't philosophically inclined, and even then it will be merely a philosophical thought that won't influence your life or behaviour. Your perception of reality will not be altered.
You know, it's like "Is there life on Venus"? You may get such a thought, but you won't truly be interested or considering it seriously, you'll just find it amusing and that's all.

P.S.
If such info can help you, I've had LDs for about 10 years now, and never questioned reality. You may occasionally hear how somebody says his dreams are as vivid as reality, but don't pay attention to boasting, such people just want to impress listeners, in reality they always know when they're dreaming.
It's like all of these topics "I had a LD!!!!!!", "A great new way to WILD!!!!!", etc., people just being excited and wanting to share. In the same way a certain type of people may mislead you into thinking that you can become seriously confused about dreams and reality, because they think that it will impress you that they're "advanced" or "philosophical" enough to talk about such things.

Originally Posted by NonDualistic

...

Hey guy, you get high from how cool and "spiritual" you are, aren't you?
Stop confusing the starter of this topic, he was asking a serious question and didn't need attention-hungry people to "impress" him by repeating what they read somewhere and about what they now imagine themselves to be "knowledgeable".

This is why I took a break from my LD pursuit. After I had my first LD a couple of weeks ago I realized they I dont want to do RCs all the time and always be questioning things just for the sake of being aware in something that isnt real* and will eventually be forgotten like all other dreams. After living 19 years and then "living" in a dream there is no question in my mind which one is real (as real is normally defined)

And fortunatly, as of last night, I have found a way to have LDs without having to do RCs and other such nonsense throughtout the day (we will see if it was just a fluke)

*waits for someone to go "bu but your waking life isnt real either!1!1 real life is a dream!1!!"

roff

I don't think questioning your reality will change your waking life one bit. I don't think it will make the line between reality and dreaming any less clear in the real world. You only do it so you will question your reality in your dreams. It like a rollover effect. In your dreams is when you need to question it so you can be lucid, and that will be the only difference.

Originally Posted by IWantToChange

Hey guy, you get high from how cool and "spiritual" you are, aren't you?
Stop confusing the starter of this topic, he was asking a serious question and didn't need attention-hungry people to "impress" him by repeating what they read somewhere and about what they now imagine themselves to be "knowledgeable".

If you really want to change , you must begin by seeing past your own ego...


just as the OP must learn to see past his own ego and therefore his own fear

Originally Posted by heebiejeebies

From the Lucidity Institute’s website:

“The experience of being in a lucid dream clearly demonstrates the astonishing fact that the world we see is a construct of our minds. This concept, so elusive when sought in waking life, is the cornerstone of spiritual teachings. It forces us to look beyond everyday experience and ask, "If this is not real, what is?" Lucid dreaming, by so baldly baring a truth that many spend lives seeking, often triggers spiritual questioning in people who try it for far more mundane purposes. Not only does lucid dreaming lead to questioning the nature of reality, but for many it also has been a source of transcendent experience. Exalted and ecstatic states are common in lucid dreams. EWLD presents several cases of individuals achieving states of union with the Highest, great peace and a new sense of their roles in life.”

This freaks me out and is one of the reasons I have been scared of trying LDing for a while. The absolute last thing I want is to be questioning everything – being wide awake, wondering if everything that’s happening to me is real, or if it’s just a hallucination - or to have my perspective on life, death and the universe significantly altered. At the moment, I believe waking life is real, and LDs are entirely created by our own minds. What do others feel? Has having LDs made you question the nature of reality, and whether waking life is real? In what ways has it changed your perspective on things ?

Thanks
-heebs

I've always been one to question the world around me, including the nature of reality. I think it is pretty normal to do so, and I believe many people reach this point sometime in their lives. I would encourage you to go forward and explore this realm for yourself. Lucid dreaming is an excellent way of finding meaning and purpose for things you are unsure of. Do not fear it. Think of dreaming lucidly as a way of moving you closer to the truth and what is real rather than farther away from it.

As far as my perspective is concerned, I can say LDing has certainly given me more insight into my own sense of purpose in this world. It has also provided me with a greater sense of well-being and confidence, which transcends into my waking life.