Printable View
Promethius was right. You can certainly use logic in a dream. Last night I was writing a program in my dream. I was using a TI-89, which uses a form of basic. And now, as Im awake, Im thinking about this porgram, and I know it all made sense. So I no longer believe the "logic center" of the brain is shutdown when dreaming. Logic is not often a big part of dreaming, so people assume that logic is "shutdown", but I'm not sure if there is more evidence than that...because I no longer believe it.
It is quite a strange subject - and I think the answer lies in the fact that we are oversimplifying the concept of 'logic'
I think to a large extent its possible to be quite logical, but still too... accepting, or naive, of the situation.
You don't question things so readily, but when you actively apply logic, it *can* work well enough.
This also varies though - eg. I can read in my dreams.
Definaltey right. Its not so simple. And to add an important point to my tale...this problem I solved in my dream I couldnt solve in the waking world before. I had given up on it years ago, and it just came back to me and I solved it.
Yeah, I've had many of those, since I code (write programs) I've had some of those.. Many times I've been thinking of the problem in the real world and not found an answer to it, but then I start to dream that I am coding the same application :S and I face the same problem but this time I find a solution to it and the best part is that I remember all I did :)
heh. If only I'd be so lucky to solve my programming problems in dreams :P
Lucky sod ;)
I'd still be lucky to solve them when i'm enlightened by god himself.
i beleive that there is no logic in dreams only(pie) imaginationary logic it seems logical in the dream but in waking life its like "what?"
i beleive it is only possible to do logic in a dream while lucid.
i wonder if attempting to do logic can increase lucidity?
I think that logic is possible in a dream!
My brain control centre falls asleep and then when I dream it wakes up again and I'm able to think outside of the dream as well as in...
Many famous inventors, writers, philosophers and scientists have had some of their greatest ideas come to them through dreams.
If it wasn't 2:34 in the morning I could probably remember some specifics... but I can't, so I'm going to bed.
Wouldn't this concept of logic be more accurate if it could be logic in a dream or lucid dream. As in a lucid dream you have control of your sense and surroundings, therefore being able to control how your brain works. Really im saying with a high level LD, you should be able to be as loggical as you want yeah?
Otherwise it is contradicting the 'do anything' aspect of LD's
Then how can you explain the fact that I very plainly was programming in my dream and figuring out exactly what i needed to do? I was most definatley using logic to its fullest extent. I twsnt vague logic that I late interpreted it. And it was NOT a lucid dream. I was programming and awoke amazed at what I had just figured out.Quote:
Originally posted by docthory
i beleive that there is no logic in dreams only(pie) imaginationary logic it seems logical in the dream but in waking life its like \"what?\"
Thoguh not a complete revolution in programming I had figure out a way to make this calcualator race game mich faster and better too. But how could anyone do this in a dream without using logic? Unless you simply think I am mistaken and am telling the story wrong, in whcih case there is no point in discussing further, but being the scpetic that I am, I was the first to scrutinize this dream but I rememebr it as clearly as day and can still rememebr all the programming.
Has anyone ever been able to read in there dreams? I think that it is possible to be logical in a dream. If there was no logic then the images you see in the dream would have no meaning, it would be a bunch of gibberish.
I know some of you are thinking that the images are gibberish and we just associate ideas to the random images, but I don't think that's true. Sometimes I ask my self a question before I go to sleep and the answer appears in the dream.
The logic in our dreams is designed to help us see things from a perspective that is beyond our normal scope.
Just because it is possible to have logic in your dreams doesn't mean that everyone's dreams are logical. I think it is something you have to look for. It's like two people who speak different languages trying to have a conversation. Just because the two people do not understand each other doesn't mean that what the other is saying is gibberish, it just means that the two people haven't been able to find the Rosetta stone that will allow them to translate each others frame of thought. it's all about communication. In the case of dreaming the two people, or really three people, are the conscious mind, unconscious mind and he subconscious mind.
There is logic, but the logic just doesn't conform to the way we think in our waking life.
Seeing as how even the wierdest dreams are basicly the same as real life there has to be a great deal of logic in it. I don't think any part of your brain shuts off while sleeping, I think its just the creative part is more active in it.
Thats what I think too. Just like while running laps the creative part of my brain doesnt seem to active but if I wanted I could be cretive while running laps....wierd example but I think you get the idea.Quote:
Originally posted by Alric
Seeing as how even the wierdest dreams are basicly the same as real life there has to be a great deal of logic in it. I don't think any part of your brain shuts off while sleeping, I think its just the creative part is more active in it.
gameover, your dreams about programming (IMO) show that the part of your brain responsible for thinking logically (non-abstractly) is aware and alert - specially because you remember these dreams well. It's probably because it's on your mind before you go to sleep, or you subconsiously feel that you need to think of this in your sleep? My non-lucid dreams are abstract in the sense that people swap bodies, and time goes backwards sometimes! but this isnt non-logical in some sense - its just a creative way of interpreting my feelings and experiences from the day just passed. - IMO creativeness and abstractness helps to expand our minds and open our field of imagination .... sorry that i went off the point!!!!! LOL :D
I've come up with ingenious melodies for songs in dreams, and then forget them when I wake up. I've started a dream journal in case it happens again and I can notate them!
In terms of logic, I don't think dream logic is the same as real logic. If you have a problem in your dream, and want to solve it, your subconscious will cause you to solve it, and will provide some weird reasoning for it. If you examine the process in real life however, usually it doesn't make sense.
ideas
maybe your subconcious had already picked up on the solution to how to improve the game but your concious brain had not fully played it over or taken notice to it. Then in your dream the answers were revealed again through your subconcious mind.
maybe what you programmed what was completly random crap that your subconcious associated with something and then it snapped to you.
maybe an alien implanted the anwsers to improve the game inside your head at night.
maybe the game doesn't exist
I give up..
My personal oppinion:
The logic is hidden in the chaos, like as if it were incripted. Sometimes, not always, you can understand and interpret a dream. Like they say in American McGee's Alice:
I know it's a video game, but I find a lot of truth in that quote. When I dream it's as if the whole world is filled with strange metaphores that can only be understood through the feeling of emotion. Then, when I wake up, I add it all together with whatever's going on in my current life and it makes sense.Quote:
Sometimes a mirror exposes more reality than the object it reflects.[/b]
I say: there's sense in nonsense. ;)
I've only been trying to say this since I first joined up on this forum.
Logic can be triggered by controlling your awareness levels. Just don't go too far off the chart or you'll end up screwed up like me. :shock:
Bradybaker wroteLogic is so possible in a dream; even if it isn't lucid. It all depends on the person, but I've studied for a test before in a dream before and wasn't lucid.Quote:
Many famous inventors, writers, philosophers and scientists have had some of their greatest ideas come to them through dreams. [/b]
When I said it depends on the person, I think it depends on how much logic the person uses in the waking life that will effect logic use in the dream world. It's just the simple case of what you do in your waking life effecting the dreaming life. Like if you ran everyday, you'd most likely eventually have a dream or few about running.
I use math everyday and many equations dictate how I view the way the world works. Since I feel that is inherent inside of my genetic makeup, I believe I was able to study in that dream and it made perfect logical sense. I was also reading the text on the page in the dream, so reading is very possible too.
I 'gree with Khronos and Beelzebub.
Logic exists everywhere -even within what we perceive as "random," "abstract," "illogical," etc. There is method in all things, even madness. It's just that abstract (or "dream") logic is often expressed unconsciously and in ways too complicated for us to consciously rationalize... In other words, even when logic appears to "shut down" -it really still exists behind the scenes (just in a complex form). I think you may find this topic in other threadcs in this forum if you do a search on "logic" or "chaos" or some such term...
I like that.. 'Sometimes a mirror exposes more reality than the object it reflects'... and 'Theres sense in nonsense'Quote:
Originally posted by Lord of the Flies
My personal oppinion:
The logic is hidden in the chaos, like as if it were incripted. Sometimes, not always, you can understand and interpret a dream. Like they say in American McGee's Alice:
I know it's a video game, but I find a lot of truth in that quote. When I dream it's as if the whole world is filled with strange metaphores that can only be understood through the feeling of emotion. Then, when I wake up, I add it all together with whatever's going on in my current life and it makes sense.Quote:
Sometimes a mirror exposes more reality than the object it reflects.
I say: there's sense in nonsense. ;)[/b]
I smell a sig change :D
Hehe sense in nonsense---> Placebo
You can look at that two ways, the first is that yeah it can have two meanings and there is also this way, it is a term described to explain 2 opposite meanings
1) There is sense, as it has an existing meaning/reason/effect
2) There is nonsense, plain and simple the opposite of sense, it's just an opposing word
Guess you could say that there is bacon in the Vegetarian food "It's not bacon"
Trying to describe my point, lol but im not doing a good job :P
Nope.. straight over my head :huh: :undecided:Quote:
Originally posted by Xisdence
Trying to describe my point, lol but im not doing a good job :P