Why would people believe that lucid dreaming is impossible? I need an explanation.
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Why would people believe that lucid dreaming is impossible? I need an explanation.
Frustration? I used to consider having them without waking up right away impossible! It's an attitude.
People are close-minded. They don't believe something until they experience it themselves.
I agree. I know people like this, and it really gets on my nerves.Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowlight
Stephen LaBerge has done studies showing that it is possible, and he used some weird eye movement method to communicate with people in their dreams.
This is the best link I could find: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucid_d...eption_of_time
Which I think applies to all the "rational" invaders of the BD section :>Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowlight
I wouldn't know because I never thought it was impossible, but I think one reason could be that it might sound too good to be true.
example:
lucid dreamer- " Lucid dreaming is an experience unlike anything else. It takes you to a place where you can do anything your imagination can come up with. It can feel as real as waking life, and there's no physical danger. and it's relatively easy to do."
skeptic- "well then why doesn't everyone do it?"
But you understand that there's nothing paranormal about lucid dreaming, right? And we (rational people) need proof before we start believing in something paranormal.Quote:
Originally Posted by starry eyes
I think most people just dont understand what it really is.
I think that to the people who don't believe in it, its just a matter of the very concept of it seeming against the very point of what they think dreaming is.
What you have to realize is that dreaming has meant a great many things to different people over the ages. They have been seen as divine messages from God or temptations from the Devil. Freud considered them to be a place for the evil, primitive parts (that were to be feared) of man to run rampant, while his student, Carl Jung,took a more optimistic stance on the same theory, seeing the subconscious as a positive force, and dreams as a mode of expression. Some belive dreams to be nothing more than random neural firings in the brain. Still others don't remember ever having any dreams at all.
To many people, dreams simply don't make any sense at all. They lack logic, and because the dreaming mind works differently than the waking mind, instead of questioning such strange things as your teeth simply falling out of your face or suddenly realizing you forgot to get dressed this morning and now you're naked in front of all your classmates/coworkers, you accept them and continue on in a dream that doesnt make any sense to the logical mind. If, to those people, the the very basis of dreams is nonsense and a state of mind that accepts blindly things that make no sense, lucid dreams seem quite impossible. I doubt that anyone would presume to say it is impossible to have it occur to you, in a dream, that you are dreaming, but to be aware of dreaming and to be awake in your dreams are two very different things. To bring the level of consciousness and logic that you have in waking life into a dream is something that just has to be experienced or believed in. No one will ever be able to prove it, though science has certainly showed more and more evidence that shows it as a likely explanation.
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Originally Posted by yellowlight
I quite agree with you. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by starry eyes
First of all, can you define paranormal? Paranormal is simply what society has not yet accepted. Chemistry was once considered paranormal. Astronomy was once only seen as important because of Astrology. The idea of bacteria and viruses existing and being the cause of illness and infection was once considered paranormal. Much of what is still considered paranormal is currently being studied by quantum physics, psychology, and parapsychology.Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowlight
Second of all, many people do consider lucid dreaming to be paranormal. Before anyone tries to argue that one with me, I disagree as well, but the fact is that lucid dreaming has NOT been proven scientifically, and never will be, though it will likely be accepted as being proven. It cannot be proven because while tests can show that someone is aware of dreaming, they cannot prove that the consciousness we have in lucid dreams is the same as when we are awake. Evidence can be gathered that show it as an overwhelminly likely theory, but in the end all we have is experience to prove it to ourselves.
When dealing with human perception, all there ever is is theorizing --- some good and some poor. Psychology is actually a wonderful example, because of the lack of concrete evidence and all of the interpreting involved. The thories will continue to change as society changes. For example, Freud is the founder of psychoanalysis, and stressed the existence of a subconscious, which was responsible for this, that and the other. He had a lot of evidence backing him up, so that I'm sure there were many people in his time who considered his many theories "proven." But Carl Jung developed upon that theory with a lot of evidence of his own, looking at it in a different way. A lot of people would also consider his views on things to be proven. And so it has continued, with psychologist after psychologist coming up with their own ways of viewing things and a lot of evidence to back them up, altering a theory that has been seen at many different stages as "proven."
Most of the people who critisize such topics as astral projection are actually very poorly informed, and yet continue to bash something that they don't understand. I personally don't believe that astral projection is any more "paranormal" than lucid dreaming. In my opinion, they are both possible because of the incredible potential of the human mind. There is plenty of evidence, and just as with lucid dreaming, there are people out there who will refuse to acknowledge it because it doesn't fit into their view of reality, which is fine, but to say that they dont believe it because the evidence isn't out there is a horrible case of ignorance. There have been scientific studies that show more than enough evidence to, at the very least, show it as a plausible theory to anyone with an open, unbaised mind.
I don't really know what else is discussed on the BD part of the forum, so I can't justly defend it, but I can say that there is a major difference between needing proof to believe something that one considers "paranormal" and the "rationals" that "invade" the section to critisize it. In fact, to those so called "rationals" who bash those ideas without first seriously researching them, I like to quote Sir Isaac Newton: "Sir --- I have studied the matter. You have not."
...as opposed to all the "irrational" natives there? :PQuote:
Originally Posted by starry eyes
such as most of the people here on DV who donīt believe in shared dreamings and alternative realities?Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowlight
:roll:
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Originally Posted by SonatArctica
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Originally Posted by yellowlight
Wow thanks guys. I was actually waiting for some reject moderater to come and shut this thread down.
Yes i don't want to say that lucid dreaming has been proven but I believe there has been enough evidence to show that it is possible. The only thing that is blocking the proof part is how far logic can go.
I had a lucid dream the other day (in my signature), where ofcourse I realized I was dreaming. Walked through walls, went flying and jumping really high. Knew I was dreaming, but I saw my parents and for some reason, I thought for a moment that I was in their dream too. Logic works on so many different weird levels.
To still claim that lucid dreaming is impossible, needs to have a lucid dream themselves. By saying it is impossible though, the power of suggestion alone will probably end them up with none at all claiming to themselves that it's impossible.
I hope I didn't lose anyone.
It feels impossible because it seems immpossible after trying hard for so long and not getting lucid. I havent had one yet, I was trying really hard for about 3-4 months straight but its been a year since I have gotten interested in lucid dreaming.
wow. well my advice to you is to not try so hard. It is just something that requires a lot of attention during the day. just remembering to do reality checks so that you can remember to do them in your dreams. after a reality check imagine what it would be like if you were dreaming.Quote:
Originally Posted by omgsh
"if this was a dream, i would focus on that tree to gain clarity and then i would fly". keeping a goal intact will definetly help to. I've had about 35 lucid dreams. I joined back in 2004 (had about 3) but too a long break and resigned up last october because im so interested in the subject.
My guess is that many of these people never remember their own dreams, let alone have totally mind-blowing, vivid and realistic dreams where they know they're dreaming and can do whatever they want. And they might think that, by default, this is the way lucid dreams are supposed to be. They probably don't hear about the low-clarity, muddled, foggy dreams where your control sucks and/or you wake up right away or where you're not very lucid to begin with.
Plus, there are probably many people who have some sort of negative view of it (for example, all the religious threads about people whose families/religion says LDing should not be done, or is not just dreaming but something else, like a deal with the devil).
There are probably also people who think "Ok, maybe" and try, but don't have success or are doing it the wrong way, and so think it's all BS.
Or, people who associate it with paranormal crap by default, and so think it's BS.
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Originally Posted by Shift
wow... that really pisses me off lol
not you but just the idiots out there. i don't mean to disrespect anyones beliefs (well who on this forum is against LDing) but that all just sounds so dumb.
I guess they have never heard of the controlled eye-movements researched by Stephen. Why would lucid dreaming be the devils work if the experiences can be so enlightning?
Where in the world would the average person have heard of that? Of course they haven't. Most of the people on this forum don't even understand his experiment and his results. Or the arguments against them.
And sadly, most of the people on this forum really aren't the ones to be explaining it to people who doubt LDing to begin with. So I can understand it, all too easily.
I was about to write something like
"Doesn't the existance of this very forum prove that it is possible? How could so many poeple be wrong?"
But then I remembred religion and how I don't believe in it :cheeky:
I've thought about that too but then again, they could claim that we're all just crazy and worship the devil or some bullsh!t like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by khh