somewhere in between beginner and accomplished dreamer.
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somewhere in between beginner and accomplished dreamer.
It also doesn't take into account the quality of the dreams. That, I think, plays an important role. I know a few naturals who wake up the millisecond they become lucid. I know people who can work very hard, get maybe 4 lucids a year, but they seem to last at least half an hour and they accomplish tons of dream goals.
I dunno, I disagree strongly with this post, especially the "HERE IS THE WAY IT IS" presentation. I'm not really all for these classifications, especially because there ARE no set definitions or categories, and I don't believe these should be them even if I wanted there to be.
I'm a beginner. I have been trying for 2 months and my recall is terrible, and I haven't had a single lucid yet. A lot of that has to do with my motivation lately.
:/
I completely agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shift
I don't really think that most people can be categorized like this.
But I'd say I'm the one with the plant. ^_^
Accomplished dreamer, although there should still be more categories. :D
The quiz put me at Natural though. :P
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethereal
yeah... so girls reading books in tibetan are inexperienced?
low level, unfortunately...
I'm kind of jealous of all the naturals out there...
I'm a natural :cooler:
Can't see the problem with attempting to define a "natural" lucid dreamer.
The range of definitions I've seen used in DV is fairly broad.
I suspect the problem is that many LDers like to describe themselves as "natural" for the Kudos. So of course they're going to grumble when they find out that, actually, they're maybe not the messiah of Lucid dreaming.
I'd describe myself as accomplished.
I've given the inductions a miss for the last couple of months.
I've also only been recording only my most interesting dreams.
But I do maintain a good dream awareness and still spend a few minutes remembering them each morning when I wake up.
As a result, with little effort, I'm still managing at least 1 spontaneous lucid a week.
Some people might be inclined to label themselves a natural based on the above. Not me thought!
yeah you could have 999 different categories- I've tried narrowing it down to the extremes. Personally I don't consider a dream were you wake up the instant you become lucid an actual LD. (other people's opinions may varry- I just have numerous FA's where I'm writing down my dream in my DJ and suddenly I'm like "aww nuts this is a dream" and wake up)Quote:
t also doesn't take into account the quality of the dreams. That, I think, plays an important role. I know a few naturals who wake up the millisecond they become lucid. I know people who can work very hard, get maybe 4 lucids a year, but they seem to last at least half an hour and they accomplish tons of dream goals.
HERE IS THE WAY IT IS :)Quote:
I dunno, I disagree strongly with this post, especially the "HERE IS THE WAY IT IS" presentation.
for lucid dreaming to progress it should be scrutinized and classified.Quote:
I'm not really all for these classifications, especially because there ARE no set definitions or categories, and I don't believe these should be them even if I wanted there to be.
now this really stung. is there supposed to be someone on top of a hill who says "these are the definitions" or indeed should laberge come and give the definitions? The beauty of Dreamviews is that everyone can participate in defining what exactly lucid dreamers areQuote:
especially because there ARE no set definitions or categories,
I heard about Lucid Dreaming 2 years ago, and I 've had at about 15 LDs so far, but considering the fact that i started writing my DJ just today i would say I am a NOOB, a beginner. :boogie:
Well your thread never said "Guys, how do you think we ought to classify LDs?" it just sort of said "Here I've come up with the classification system." and to have been presented as a definitive explanation of the 'classes' of lucid dreams, I think it was an incredibly oversimplified and narrow range that was discussed.
The only reason I'd prefer that someone like Laberge do it is because I have the feeling they'd be very objective and systematic about it, taking the myriad of factors into account and considering every possible aspect of a lucid dream, versus people who haven't dedicated their entire life to lucid dreaming (not just your recreation and sleep time, but also your academic, professional, and personal life and career) and probably couldn't even think up half the factors that could be playing a role.
I mean you could define them by length, memory, vividness, number of senses, reason for induction, complexity of the dream environment, need to stabilize, emotions experienced, attitude toward your lucidity, varying degrees of sensory perception (ie if you can see, how many colors CAN you see), first or third person, reality checks needed to establish you are dreaming, prevalence of uncontrollable dream urges/desires, level of logic in the dream environment, number/types/behaviors/whatever of dream characters present, god it just goes on and on and I've only spent about three minutes typing this.
The problem I have with this thread, besides the narrow scope of factors considered, is the fact that these qualities are transient. They don't remain constant, they can only be applied to a specific dream or a certain time span of a lucid dreamer or oneironaut's dreaming, and it could change with the slightest change. Stress, motivation, dedication, practice during the day, general dream memory, amount of sleep, foods consumed, medication, exhaustion level, etc. So to just have a short list of "Here's How It Is" is, IMO, so drastically oversimplifying that it has gone to the point of irrelevance.
And, as usual, the whole 'what is a natural dreamer' debate. Like I said, these things vary by the person using the term and so if dreamviews (hardly the authority on lucid dreaming, just a large community of people wanting to learn to do it from a few very basic resources) wants to establish 'official dreamviews LDer categories', then I think it should involve a lot of deliberation and consideration between the staff and community members. As I would in any other circumstance, I'm not going to just agree with something that someone made up simply because they went ahead and did something that I strongly disagree with it.
What we absolutely shouldn't do is let people with a desire to classify themselves as "naturals" classify what a natural is. :)
Don't think its that big an issue really.
The LD community has a rigerous obsession with classing MILDS, DILDS, FILDS, WILDS, if it moves we, as a community, manage to classify it.
It serves a useful purpose.
Not sure why the term "Naturals" should be considered so special.
Your view on dream traveling matches my view of it sooooo well! For the longest time I thought I was the only one who believed that! You'll get those dreams back! Just hang in there! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Morrigan
I guess I'd have to describe myself as an 'accomplished' lucid dreamer... although I don't see the point in applying labels to ourselves. I had to work quite hard for my first LD, but it was worth it and now I can WILD practically every night with a few DILD's tossed in for good measure! :boogie: :boogie: :boogie:
Low ability dreamer... I guess haha
I can now say I am an accomplished dreamer. With some helpful guides and previous lucid experience, its no longer hard to attain lucidity. So far out of my 5 attempts 4 of them were successful this week.
Well, i think i was in all of these categories at a point of my life.
I was a natural LDer ocasionally while i was a child. Rare times, countable through the fingers of an hand, but i had some natural LDs.
I was a beginner when i discovered this website for the first time and found that they were inducible. Then i practised really hard and i became an accomplished LDer. I didn't pass throught he low level at that time.
Now i got a lot to do in university so i'm more into studying. So, i would say that at moment i am a Low level LDer as i'm not much focused anymore but, eventually, i'll try to regain my skills.
I think just 4 categories are too narrow to fit all of the possibilities that there are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junknown
please read the entire thread. these are the "extremes", people usually are somewhere in between
It wouldn't take much effort to add a few more general categories:Quote:
Originally Posted by yuriythebest
Beginner - Occasional LD, one or twice a month
Novice - Has LDs 2 to 3 times a every month, better control over them
Dreamer - Has LDs once a week, has average control
Advance Dreamer - Has 1 to 3 LDs a week, better control on dreams
Expert - Has 3 or more dreams a week, can control nearly every aspect of a dream decently, can enter dreams in a variety of ways
Seems a little better.
Or just none at all. Seems infinitely better.
Beginer.
Lowest of the low of course :D
Low level i'd say. I Just came back here after like 1 and a half year, so hopefully i'll get some more experience soon.