How long can Lucid dreams be?

Laberge studies show that counting down in dream time and counting in real time (monitored via eye movements) were roughly on a par. There is a fair amount of concensus on this.

http://daniel.erlacher.de/index.php/...n_lucid_dreams

Atkins513 appears to have it backwards. The motor activities study indicated that dream exercises took approx 45% longer in perceived dream time than they would physically take in real time.
This would actually reduce the perceived dream length, not increase it.
i.e. 30 mins of dream squat thrusts would waste 60 mins of REM time.
Cutting your perceived dream time in half.


I'm really not sure how a dream can "seem" to last years.

I presume when Robot_Butler refers to "false memories" he means that when he ponders gaps in time, his brain then takes the time to rationalise the experience. Meaning we're still stuck in an approximate real time.

Those compelled to boast about literally living years in a dream, based on their zen like mastery of the cosmic dream arts...well putting it diplomatically lets just say they're "mistaken".

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Originally Posted by Planewalker

They can last over hours, especially when having slept for a long time before, because that causes you to stay in REM for a virtually unlimited time. REM is not the only state to dream in, but the easiest to recall and to become lucid. Some opioids can also induce very long dream experiences. I'm not talking about hallucinations (opioids usually don't cause that), but regular sleep and dreaming.

As far as I can recall, my longest unbroken chain of dream lucidity lasted about 4 hours. I applied WILD after a very long period of sleep on the weekend. I very much advise to have a completely calm environment or to use earplugs for that. Darkness is no requirement at all, dim sunlight actually seems helpful.

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Non REM dreams are more like "thought" dreams. Not the Immersive 3d creations we conventially consider dreams. Theres a bit of bleed between NREM and REM states as the brain state changes, so its likely possible to have a dream which "technically" lasts a wee bit longer than the measured REM period, but not a lot.

As to having a 4 hour lucid, I'm not sure how you would know.
Even when luciding our memories as well as logic centres are terrible. I've had probably at most a 45 min lucid, and it is incredibly hard to accurately recall the initial dream stages.

I'd suggest a 4 hour lucid this is another case of the dream seeming longer than it is, because of muddled memories and the inaccurate nature of dream logic.

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The rate at which time passes while lucid dreaming has been shown to be about the same as while waking. However, a 1995 study in Germany indicated that lucid dreaming can also have varied time spans, in which the dreamer can control the length. The study took place during sleep and upon awakening, and required the participants to record their dreams in a log and how long the dreams lasted. In 1985, LaBerge performed a pilot study where lucid dreamers counted out ten seconds while dreaming, signaling the end of counting with a pre-arranged eye signal measured with electrooculogram recording. LaBerge's results were confirmed by German researchers in 2004. The German study, by D. Erlacher and M. Schredl, also studied motor activity and found that deep knee bends took 44% longer to perform while lucid dreaming.

While making the above claim, Hobson et al. incorrectly attribute to me the false statement that "the dreamer can only gain lucidity with its concomitant control of dream events for a few seconds (LaBerge 1990)." [sic.] In fact, lucid dreams as verified in the laboratory by eye-movement signalling last up to 50 minutes in length, with the average being about 2 minutes (LaBerge 1990). The relatively low average is partially due to the fact that subjects were carrying out short experiments and wanted to awaken with full recall. At the onset of lucid dreams there is an increased tendency to awaken, probably due to the fact that lucid dreamers are thinking at that point, which withdraws attention from the dream, causing awakening (LaBerge 1985).

Figure 2. Dream time estimations. We have straightforwardly approached the problem of dream time by asking subjects to estimate ten second intervals (by counting, "one thousand and one, one thousand and two, etc.") during their lucid dreams. Signals marking the beginning and end of the subjective intervals allowed comparison with objective time. In all cases, time estimates during the lucid dreams were very close to the actual time between signals (LaBerge, 1980a, 1985).

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It is my opinion that lucid dreams can last HOURS. Considering that LaBerge has a documented lucid dream in the research lab lasting 50 minutes, when most people say a dream can last only 45 minutes should tell you something right there. Some estimates even put it up to around 2 hours. I've had ones that went on for 4 hours, but I may have performed DEILD at some point so it was probably more like 2 or 3 lucids chained together.

But still the point is that, either lucid dreaming is not limited to only REM sleep, or you are able to extend REM sleep while lucid. This is something I've tried to research but haven't found much to explain it.

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Originally Posted by moonshine

Laberge studies show that counting down in dream time and counting in real time (monitored via eye movements) were roughly on a par. There is a fair amount of concensus on this.

http://daniel.erlacher.de/index.php/...n_lucid_dreams

Atkins513 appears to have it backwards. The motor activities study indicated that dream exercises took approx 45% longer in perceived dream time than they would physically take in real time.
This would actually reduce the perceived dream length, not increase it.
i.e. 30 mins of dream squat thrusts would waste 60 mins of REM time.
Cutting your perceived dream time in half.


I'm really not sure how a dream can "seem" to last years.

I presume when Robot_Butler refers to "false memories" he means that when he ponders gaps in time, his brain then takes the time to rationalise the experience. Meaning we're still stuck in an approximate real time.

Those compelled to boast about literally living years in a dream, based on their zen like mastery of the cosmic dream arts...well putting it diplomatically lets just say they're "mistaken".

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No, think about this for 1 minute without jumping to the conclusion of automatically knowing... if a jump in a dream takes 44 percent LONGER, than a jump in real life, YET the jump in the dream still feels exactly the same, then that would mean that a LUCID JUMP in LUCID TIME is 44 percent LONGER, than a real time jump in REAL TIME. Comparing the two side by side would show that LUCID TIME is 44 percent longer than REAL TIME. Hypothetically, once again, the lucid time frame would have to be 44 percent longer, per minute, per hour. So that would mean, that I do not have it backwards at all. If you and I both where to jump up and down at the same time, and it seemed to be the exact same jump and that jump lasted the same amount of time as it was perceived.. I am lucid, and you are not. Yet my jump takes 44 percent longer, that would mean when you land, i would just be starting back down from the jump... so in all, my jump took 44 percent longer, for the exact same 3 seconds in perceived time compared to real time.. therefore, THE TIME PERIOD IS PERCEIVED TO BE LONGER IN LUCID TIME... Your making the assumption that time is slowed down and perceived as slowed down to the brain, which it is not. When I jump up and down lucid, it is perceived exactly the same, not slow-mo... which means, once again, lucid time lasts longer according to the dreamer... Who else see's the logic in this? How could it be that the lucid time is slower?

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Originally Posted by Aquanina

It is my opinion that lucid dreams can last HOURS. Considering that LaBerge has a documented lucid dream in the research lab lasting 50 minutes, when most people say a dream can last only 45 minutes should tell you something right there. Some estimates even put it up to around 2 hours. I've had ones that went on for 4 hours, but I may have performed DEILD at some point so it was probably more like 2 or 3 lucids chained together.

But still the point is that, either lucid dreaming is not limited to only REM sleep, or you are able to extend REM sleep while lucid. This is something I've tried to research but haven't found much to explain it.

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I wouldn't think the difference between 45 to 50 mins is enough to sneak 4 hours into. No.

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Originally Posted by atkins513

No, think about this for 1 minute without jumping to the conclusion of automatically knowing... if a jump in a dream takes 44 percent LONGER, than a jump in real life, YET the jump in the dream still feels exactly the same, then that would mean that a LUCID JUMP in LUCID TIME is 44 percent LONGER, than a real time jump in REAL TIME. Comparing the two side by side would show that LUCID TIME is 44 percent longer than REAL TIME. Hypothetically, once again, the lucid time frame would have to be 44 percent longer, per minute, per hour. So that would mean, that I do not have it backwards at all. If you and I both where to jump up and down at the same time, and it seemed to be the exact same jump and that jump lasted the same amount of time as it was perceived.. I am lucid, and you are not. Yet my jump takes 44 percent longer, that would mean when you land, i would just be starting back down from the jump... so in all, my jump took 44 percent longer, for the exact same 3 seconds in perceived time compared to real time.. therefore, THE TIME PERIOD IS PERCEIVED TO BE LONGER IN LUCID TIME... Your making the assumption that time is slowed down and perceived as slowed down to the brain, which it is not. When I jump up and down lucid, it is perceived exactly the same, not slow-mo... which means, once again, lucid time lasts longer according to the dreamer... Who else see's the logic in this? How could it be that the lucid time is slower?

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The perceived time of doing squat jumps is the same in both dreams and reality.

Rem periods are measured in real time.
If you spend a 60 minute REM period doing squat jumps,
the perceived time in the dream is going to be much less that 60 mins.

So in fact its reducing the perceived length of your dream.
Which, in terms of what you experience, means a shorter dream.

I would say the salient point is that this - very limited - area of research cannot be used to justify dream elongation, as it in fact demonstrates just the opposite.

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Originally Posted by moonshine

The perceived time of doing squat jumps is the same in both dreams and reality.

Rem periods are measured in real time.
If you spend a 60 minute REM period doing squat jumps,
the perceived time in the dream is going to be much less that 60 mins.

So in fact its reducing the perceived length of your dream.
Which, in terms of what you experience, means a shorter dream.

I would say the salient point is that this - very limited - area of research cannot be used to justify dream elongation, as it in fact demonstrates just the opposite.

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I do not agree at all on this, but I respect your opinion just as I am sure you respect mine.. Afterall, it is all a matter of how you look at things as well... in different examples, both ideas could seem correct...

I think it's totally safe to say 20 minutes. Though I had a freakish experience where I would have put the dream at 2 hours, as it's been said there is no way to be sure. That hasn't happened again btw. I had it recorded on a tape recorder that broke, but still remember basically what happened. Felt freakish when I woke up, but it was a very good dream in itself.

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Originally Posted by atkins513

I do not agree at all on this, but I respect your opinion just as I am sure you respect mine.. Afterall, it is all a matter of how you look at things as well... in different examples, both ideas could seem correct...

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Fair enough but its not so much opinion as simple maths that resolves this one.

If you have a clock, you DEILD, fall into a WILD in seconds, then force yourself awake, you can get a pretty decent idea of how long your dream was.

Funny I had two experiences related to what I read on dreamviews yesterday.

This was dumb luck, but I fell asleep with my voice recorder recording and held up to my mouth. I was trying to do a recall so sleepy, it overcame me and I just stopped. Funny I am talking and then 5 seconds later you hear the breathing of sleep that continues for 5 minutes.

The dream was short to, but a good bit happened in that 5 minutes. At first I was walking around a "Base" like in a RPG, I was killing easy mobs for exp and to practice my abilities (Which were sort of lame, I seemed to have a lot of hand grenades and a rifle) I was mostly trying to see how many I could take out with area damage from a grenade, practicing my throwing, my placement. Then I run into one of my friends and we talk a bit, then a conversation on cell phone, then I woke.

So it was like it lasted 5 minutes, but not a moment of time "wasted" of course if you were to truly waste time in a dream for more than a few seconds the dream would probably be lost.

That's one characteristic of most dreams, something always has to be happening that is meaningful, moving, a picture, anything to occupy the mind's attention. So as in real life, things that actually take up our attention may be rare overall, while in a dream something has to be happening every moment almost. I know that's not cut and dry but you can see what I mean. It could really feel like you got a lot done in a shorter period of time.