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And it was pertaining to controlling ki energy.
Im not sure what im even feeling is ki energy, i mean i cant make visible ki balls or anything. i cant see anything but in my head. and i learned that i can trick the nervous system with my head. so im not sure if im doing that or actually making a ki ball.
hellllllp
What the hell is "ki energy"? You can't expect everyone to know what you're talking about when you bring up stuff like this. I disagree with or am skeptical of 90% of what people post on here.
Welcome to Dreamviews!
From what you have said if you are interested in thoughtform building, a western term for the oriental term of ki manipulation, I will tell you that I am putting together a guide on how to create a thoughtform to induce lucidity. In my practice of martial arts my sensei knew a fellow artist that could throw a ki ball to make an opponent fall over. Pretty amazing ability but it actually is a simple process to create an energy ball. I should have it up as a thread in about a months time.
Seriously? I'm having a hard time believing that. >_o I'd still try it though.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcwillis
This thread would probably be better of in the "beyond dreaming" subforum.
Seriously. Im glad you are willing to give it a try. Im fine tuning the method at the moment. It will be moved no doubt sometime soon.
yeah totally send me the link private message or w.e.. sorry if posted this in the wrong spot.
No worries :) Moved to Beyond Dreaming
First, and as a bit of an aside, why does everybody seem to have a sensei (or such) who "knows" someone who can do unusual things like throw ki balls, but they can never do it themselves? Sorry... needed to be asked.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcwillis
On a similar note, if it is a simple process to create an energy ball, why aren't people doing it all the time? Wouldn't it be a fairly valuable tool for a soldier, crook, athlete, etc, to have in his kit? And yet you never hear of battalions of soldiers specializing in ki, people getting mugged by energy-ball-wielding assailants, or football players penalized for ki strikes. Why not? Just curious.
I have no real problem with thought energy, or thought forms, but keep in mind that their generation and control is far more complex than a "simple process." Thought energy, because it does not speak our languages, is not a thing that is commonly manipulated intentionally. Please don't announce something as basic skill that can be learned by anyone when it is actually an incredibly rare -- and arguably impossible -- event. That said, I look forward to reading your thread about energy ball creation next month!
Now, notice above that I said thought forms are almost impossible to create intentionally. That doesn't mean that they aren't created accidentally. I have a feeling that many a paranormal event -- i.e., telekinesis, ESP, psychic healing, dream sharing, levitation, etc -- is the result of someone's thought energy hitting just the right frequency that can effect reality around them. Thought energy (not to be confused with electromagnetic energy emitted from firing synapses) is a potentially transcendental bi-product of sentience, and well worth exploring. Just don't tell people harnessing it is a simple process unless you can prove it now instead of "in about a month."
Here's a related response I gave on a 'psi ball' topic recently:
"The brain needs to have a finely tuned model of both strength and resistance to movement, so that it knows the strength and quality of the pulses to send to muscles. By actively screwing with that model, a person can create the impression of invisible forces, such as would fit what you describe. I'm not suggesting that's what you're doing, or all that you're doing, just that I've found that its a dynamic to be aware of while trying to understand what's going on. I've never tried it for resistance to application of force, but I can easily do the same kind of thing with my sense of buoyancy and my sense of inertia, which is closely related."
Also see threads on astral projection. It all seems to me to be the same sort of thing. We've all got partially subconscious and mostly involuntary mental models for the physics of our bodies. Pretty much all paranormal and 'spiritual' phenomena can be understood in large part as a straightforward, non-supernatural manipulation of those models. But then somehow in the background of that, there's also an objectively demonstrable hint of something supernatural going on, though nobody has more than the faintest understanding of it, apparently.
Even the 'who am I' or 'turning around the light' meditation of various eastern teachings seems to me to be the same sort of thing, notwithstanding that proponents usually regard it to be in a whole different class of reality. To me the main difference is that the model being manipulated has to do with identity and spatial awareness and not so much to do with the other senses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sageous
i understand lol. people always say its so easy. thats what makes alot of people frustrated.
My sensei is a 6th dan aikidoka. The man who could throw ki balls was on a special visit to the UK from Japan. He was an old man; I have no idea what dan grade he had but it was probably an 8 or 9.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sageous
Skepticism is the reason why people aren't doing it all the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sageous
Anyone from the age of 5 to 50 would have noticeable results of manipulating the energy required to make a thoughtform within 5 minutes of practice. I look forward to posting it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sageous
See how skeptical you are, I think you have answered your own question as to why people aren't creating life transforming thoughtforms all the time!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sageous
A martial art doesn't seem to me to be very effective if it fails against anyone who doesn't believe in it.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcwillis
Or, if its only the skepticism of the practitioner that matters, and not the person who he's fighting, then somebody else's objective skepticism shouldn't be a barrier to demonstrating the reality of the phenomena. Although there will always be die hard skeptics who won't believe, many of the skeptics on this site are quite reasonable if presented with real evidence.
I think that my point about manipulation of mental models is most of what is going on when people do any kind of 'energy' manipulation. If there's something else going on also, which I believe there is, then a person ought to be able to explain how that relates to and differs from the 'mental model' aspect of it. If they can't, then it doesn't seem to me like they really know what's real and what isn't, because that aspect of it is very significant.
Odd, mcwillis, that you call me a skeptic... Did you read my post? The stuff I attribute -- okay, I'll say it: attach real belief -- to thought energy goes way beyond energy balls; you might want to take a moment and look up "skeptic" before you accuse others of being one (especially because there's nothing, in the end, wrong with being a skeptic) .Quote:
Originally Posted by mcwillis
Do you really, in your heart, believe that skepticism is the reason energy balls aren't commonplace? Given the vast pool of willing believers out there, do you really think that one or two questioning souls would be enough to keep down an entire art? I don't.
Oh. And for what it's worth, I have no idea what a "6 dan aikido" is, so sadly I'm not impressed. Still, do you really think your sensei would label his powerful practitioner example as anything less than something that would wow you? And isn't it interesting that these magical masters are always "visiting" from somewhere else, somewhere far away? Seriously; it might be you, and not me, who needs a dose of skepticism...
Again, I look forward to your five-minute-energy-ball-making tutorial. Care to tell us why something simple enough to learn in five minutes can't be shared with us now? Why do we have to wait a month?
Sorry in advance if this came off a bit rudely, mcwillis. I guess I'm tired of categorically being called a "skeptic" when I'm just questioning claims that come unsupported, save for that sensei who "knew" a guy. And yeah, I had a sensei once who said the same stuff, and I can think offhand of a half dozen people very advanced in the martial arts who had a sensei who claimed that some master visited from afar doing impossible things like throwing energy balls. I think spouting these stories is in their sensei training manuals...
For a more sincere, rational response, look to Sadowofwind's post above, and comment on it if you dare. I'm just venting, I suppose. But I do sincerely look forward to your tutorial...in about a month.
Belief doesn't come into the matter, a thrown energy ball will work regardless of whether the subject receiving it believes in it or not. You can prove this for yourself within a few weeks of practicing making energy balls. The best way to see how one is progressing with energy ball creation is to throw an energy ball at someone. If they turn around and look at you then that is a sign that one is then ready to use them for life changing purposes, inducing lucid dreams being an example and the reason for bringing all of this to this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowofwind
Ok I will create a separate post shortly in this thread giving the instructions to begin working with energy manipulation that will quickly bring tangible results that one can subjectively feel and thus give a hard-to-deny demonstration of energy manipulation.Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowofwind
I don't understand, please can you elaborate.Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowofwind
You misunderstand me, my replies were not an attack towards you. It is hard to convey emotion on a forum at times and if I came across to you in this way then I should have been more careful in what I said. I'm skeptical of many things myself, as we all are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sageous
Absolutely. There is a vast pool of believers out there, but when you look at humanity as a whole they are the minority. I'll give you a powerful example of skepticism. I watched a TV programme about a frustrated American professor of parapscychology back in 1997. His experimental results with telepathy were appaling and unconvincing. I was actually shocked that I knew a great deal more about telepathy than this highly respected professor of parapsychology. The next day I sent him an email stating that I had conducted telepathy experiments with a friend and we had a 100% success rate using the standard zener cards used by parapsychologists. I also gave him the technique which his subjects could use to emulate this success rate. I received a reply from him that a 100% success rate was impossible; that the technique I gave him was mumbo jumbo and finally, in strong words, to not contact him again. I didn't reply to him as he is a close minded skeptic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sageous
As I have already pointed out I am skeptical about many things, just as we all are. I sense anger in your tone and I will repeat I did not have the intention of attacking your posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sageous
As I have said to Shadowofwind I will post a quick guide in this thread on how to manipulate psychic energy so that one can subjectively feel it within a few minutes. But that is just the beginning, creating an energy ball takes a few weeks of practice and then the hard part comes as one then needs to inject an intention into the energy ball by supplying energy from the seven major chakras. With regards to inducing lucidity I need to eperiment to find out which chakras would be best for the intention of lucidity to be programmed into the energy ball. This probaly won't make much sense now and it will be a long tutorial thread when I do put it together.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sageous
No need to apologise as we had a misunderstanding and I have stated that my intention wasn't to attack you and thus offend you. I must be more careful in future about replying to posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sageous
Im sorry if I came across as being insincere. I didn't mean to be. The tutorial instructions may not work very well. In theory it should work very well and with dedicated practice it shouldn't take more than 10-15 minutes to create an energy ball that will create a perfect DILD or DILD's the same day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sageous
McWillis,
Thanks very much for your response. To clarify a little bit where I'm coming from, I'm not skeptical because I don't believe in paranormal phenomena, or because I'm trying to undermine other people's mystical beliefs for the sake of pushing my own. Its that I want to understand such things, so I want to cut through the bullshit surrounding them so that I can get at whatever's really there. And I try to involve other people when I do this, because I don't seem to learn as much if I don't. I think that the motivations of Sageous are similar.
Like other people, my experience occurs within an internally generated representation of the outside world. There's a correspondence between this representation and the outside world because my mind builds sensate information into it. But when I 'see' something, what I'm really seeing is a mental cartoon representation of it. Color, for instance, is supplied by my mind to finely label the apparent sources of different frequencies of light, a lot like how pigments on a map are used to represent different countries. Similarly, when I hear a sound, my brain involuntarily guesses where the vibration is emanating from, and gives me an experience of there being a 'sound' at that location in my internal model of the world. In both cases its possible to manipulate the mental map independent of what the map represents. For instance, when wearing stereo headphones the sound seems to be located inside one's head, even though the source of the vibration is eternal. And contextual tricks can be used to alter the appearance of colors.
By consciously manipulating the same map that is fooled by the stereo headphones, I can make it seem as if my thoughts are located outside of my head. By warping my visual map and my tactile sense of location in the same way, I can have a full-blown out of body experience. There are also electromagnetic devices that will stimulate the same kind of experience, for people who aren't mental contortionists.
As an easy way to demonstrate the sound-map warping, try thinking about a sound in words, locating the thought in your head, then think of speaking it. For me, the location where I internally 'hear' it moves from inside my head partially into my mouth. Am I moving some invisible thought-matter into my mouth, as I prepare to project it out of my body? Judging solely from the experiential information I have just described, there's no way to conclude that the invisible 'thought matter' is any more real than the band that's playing in my head when I wear headphones.
All of my experiences involve the manipulation of mental images in this manner, even though there are many other kinds of images besides picture images or sounds. Buoyancy, inertia, electrochemical potential, personal power, identity, choice, all of these are mental simulations, and I can consciously alter them without altering the realities the represent. And I can account for most paranormal phenomena that way, including experiences of energy balls such as I might myself create. And yet, despite all of this, I also have paranormal experiences that are objectively verifiable, and which can not be accounted for in the manner I just described.
So it is plausible to me that there are people who really throw energy balls. But since I myself can seem to throw energy balls, without really doing it, I wonder in what sense they're really doing it. Maybe they are really doing something real and supernatural, but the energy ball interpretation of it is mostly incidental. A few days ago I turned my head and looked at a coworker, who had his back to me, and he turned around to see why I was looking at him. I asked him why he turned around, and he joked about something emanating from my mind. Maybe I was doing the same thing that you do when you throw an energy ball? Yet I didn't experience it as an energy ball at all. So I want to understand what is the essential part of the experience, to whatever extent it can be separated from what is pretend. Maybe it can't be cleanly separated, but we still need a way to distinguish an authentic experience from a fake one.
As I suggested earlier, people I have met who think that they have paranormal powers are pretty much as a rule not aware of the distinctions that I just described. They take their experiences at face value, assuming for instance that if they seem to be out of their body, then they are really out of their body. I know they're significantly wrong about that. But I also think that they're not entirely wrong about everything - some of them do appear to me to have actual powers, facilitated by their unquestioning and partially delusional self-confidence. Is the energy ball that turns someone's head a weaker version of the same kind that could knock someone down in a fight? Or is it something different entirely? If you cultivate those experiences, do they really lead to where you assume they lead? Two other examples of this sort of thing are astral projection, and being-conscious[ness]-bliss from meditation. Different people teach that one or the other of these lead to freedom from the physical body. I have experienced both, and I'm fairly sure that they do not, that a dependence remains, even though the nature of the dependence is not shown by the experience itself. So I'm skeptical that either experience, when sought as an ends in itself, leads anywhere. This matters because people waste many years fighting against themselves, trying to climb mountains or find peace in mental states that aren't really what they seem to be. I think that ashtanga yoga, for example, doesn't lead where it claims to. It yields remarkable results but in the end it doesn't work. I want to find out what really works.
I hope that makes more sense than my first message.
So... wait... Creating an energy ball will help me become lucid?Quote:
In theory it should work very well and with dedicated practice it shouldn't take more than 10-15 minutes to create an energy ball that will create a perfect DILD or DILD's the same day.
Thanks. I haven't got the time to properly digest and reply to this at present. I am so busy at present, but I will when I can.Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowofwind
To be able to start harnessing your natural psychic energy, with the end goal of being able to create an energy ball, sit quietly with your hands together, with fingers outstretched.
Rub your hands frantically until you feel some heat.
Now separate you hands so that they are about four inches apart.
Take a very deep breath and hold it. As soon as you begin to hold your breath imagine there is a flow of an invisible energy force coming out of the palms of your hands and amassing in the space between your hands. Don't be concerned about the nature of this energy, just imagine it very simply as an invisible energy force.
Hold the breath for just a few seconds as you imagine the energy force. Stop imagining the flow of energy as you exhale.
Now slowly move your palms towards each other until they are about an inch apart. Then move your palms apart slowly until they are about four inches apart again. Keep repeating this process for a maximum of five minutes.
At some point within the five minute period you should begin to feel a pressure and resistance as you bring your palms closer to each other. Likewise, when you move your palms apart the feeling of pressure should decrease. It will feel identical to when you try to push the north end of two bar magnets together.
When you can feel this pressure imagine that you have a lump of dough between your hands and as you squash the imagined lump of dough the feeling of pressure will increase. And then decrease as you separate your plams.
Practice daily until you get a really strong feeling of this pressure from the amassing of psychic energy between your hands.
You will then have to wait for my tutorial on how to turn this into an energy ball to induce lucid dreams...
Jmcsk8er94, are you stillfollowing this thread? I have extensive knowledge of the subject, but as the thread is old, I would not want to spend time writing things you will never read. Reply if you are still following this. In the mean time, the post above this one by mcwillis, is a very reasonable entry level technique, and people honestly need to start at an entry level. Following mcwillis's suggested exercise will certainly lead you into the ability to precieve the ki flow and start to make energy balls, however, do not look for something like the cartoons show. People who see auras can see 'ki balls', but not people just using daily vision. The there is the 'throwing them' notion. A very silly and fruitless use, I think. They can be used as the foundation for achieving powerful ends (perhaps like mcwillis's plan to form one to create a lucid state, or just to land a job or girlfriend)/ a martial artist would not throw one and expect a result. Instead, there mastery of Ki allows them to preform physical actions, like throws, with an almost magical fluidity.
Though this might not be a fair characterization of what you had in mind, this seems to imply that the girl is a pawn to be manipulated with ki energy, rather than a real, free person to be respected and communicated with.Quote:
Originally Posted by sivason
When I've seen this sort of thing in action I've been glad that we don't have stronger psychic powers. Sometimes it makes me wonder if the whole subject is a waste of time.
If I lived in a world where everybody had super powers, and there was one retarded guy who couldn't do any of that but was a straightforward, clear headed, sincere person, I'd rather be that guy. His objective honesty would give him a fair amount of immunity to psychic manipulation - in a way he would be the one with super powers.
...I actually did feel something.
Shadowofwind, good observation. I was not trying to teach anyone anything, so didn't put much thought into the wording. Not only would that type of thing be creepy and wrong, it would not work, and would harm yourself on a inner level. What I was refering to is creating a force that you release into the world with a thought attached. Basic reality requires everything that happens to be measured as a form of energy. Energy is required to cause any effect, from walking to lighting a match. So as far as getting a girlfriend, the lonely man would create a large force of his own energy, then attach a general thought to it "I don't want to be alone anymore" or "Help me meet the right girl for me." The energy then works in its mysterious ways to enhance the likelyhood of such things happening. Perhaps a friend's sister has a friend over and they get along. Perhaps he starts having less acne and a brighter smile, or a hundred different things. As I made no attempt to teach anything I am probably not responsable for explaining basic morality to everyone. But, thanks for pointing out how it may have sounded. Also, in getting a job, you would be fool hardy and cause yourself inner damage by wishing someone loose their job so you can have a specific job. However, if you create a large flow of energy, and attach the thought "I need a job" the person may get a promotion and leave that job open. Or, maybe your dad's friend would hear about a great job, mention it to your dad, and so on.
Sivason,
Thanks for the additional thoughts. For me the moral issues are more fundamental than the psychic issues, and underpin most of the practical challenges that people have with psychic issues. But I pursue the psychic side of things too because its a part of what I am also.
I'm still a little wary of consciously attaching energy to the thought, rather than just being clear in who I am and letting the destiny flow from that. It seems to me like the other way will bind me to the thought in a way that will have less ideal consequences. But its not as if I have this all figured out, or that my more implicit/subconscious approach works perfectly well either.
Shadowofwind, you are very astute in your observations! You are correct in two ways here. I was not planning on sharing so much, but you draw it out of me. So, there are many many approaches to all this. Many ways to the same end. This thread was going on about energy balls, so I just touched on a tiny bit of what might be done with them. Here is an answer for the part about binding yourself to the thought. It is personally important to have a relationship with your own version of higher power. For me let's call it God, for someone else maybe High Self. The thought that gets attached can (and should) be clarified in your mind (prayer) that you are a small short sighted thing in a big universe. You clarify that in your limited understanding this attached thought is desirable, but ask that it be allowed to happen only if it is in truth, for the best. Also, that if it is not for the best, that said energy should be allowed to be used for what God/ Higher Self feels is best.
The other item is what you say about a implicit/subconcious approach. That can be very powerful if done right. The thing again comes down to energy. One approach that fits this thread (about energy balls) is an approach I used for about 5 years. You create a very powerful ball of energy. The thought that is attached then can be something like 'God's will be done' or 'to brighten my future' or 'guide me.' Then the energy is released into the universe to act in mysterious ways for your best intrest that are yet to enter your concious mind.
The orginal thread was just about energy. So here is another implict/subconcious approach. Instead of generating the energy and forming a ball, you feed it into your existing energy body. The energy body become highly charged and expands. Then without any guiding you just live your life as a highly charged person. When issues of luck and fate come naturally into play, your higher level of energy turns things in your favor.
I say I took the implicit/subconcious approach for about 5 years. Why the change? I personally found that while my life was good, and my spiritual progress was fine, I more or less floated without a clear direction. I came to the conclusion that God/ Higher Self had no big plans other than that I become a good kind person, and needed to know what I wanted out of my life.
I've got a vague sense of divine intelligence, fate and justice, maybe somewhat akin to the thought of 'heaven' in the I Ching. Additionally I have a personal demon of sorts which has a more direct hand in my destiny. There isn't a clean line dividing the two, or separating them from myself. They suggest questions, I ask questions, they answer, I digest the answers, I ask more questions.Quote:
Originally Posted by sivason
One aspect of this that I see is not forming a thought more definitely than is justified by available knowledge. There is freedom in ambiguity. If everything was 100% cold, hard facts, there wouldn't be any chemistry. Another aspect of course is the goodwill.Quote:
Originally Posted by sivason
Apologies that my responses are a bit antiseptic tonight - I'm feeling a bit defensive emotionally, either because I sense something hidden that I don't trust, or because our discussion is taking me closer to something else that I'm afraid of.
Still sounds kind of gross to me, like getting juiced up on speed or something. I'm not suggesting this is a reasonable reaction, I'm just telling you what I feel.Quote:
Originally Posted by sivason
I think we're pretty much on the same page here. I have a fairly clear sense of what I value and wish to accomplish, but I still need to grow into a more conscious and active balance with the poltergeist side of myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by sivason
Shadowofwind, you are on a good path and it does not need to include paranormal powers, or be pushed at an exelerated pace. It is basically the mystical version of being juiced up on speed. Thing start coming at you fast, and you actually feel a kind of nerve tingling and rush all through you. It is just one way someone may approach it. People really do need to work on them selves, develop more consciousness, and balance before worrying about mystical development. As most people will never reach a place of high self awareness and balance, all of this become fanciful and arbitrary. Your thoughts are good and well developed, keep sharing them. I am leaving this thread now, unless anyone has a question about what I have said so far. See you on other threads.
I know this is an old thread, but I was wondering if you are still going to make a tutorial on this, Mcwillis. Or if there is anyone else who has experience with ki balls, what can/ should you do with the ki ball once it is made?Quote:
Originally Posted by mcwillis
A long time ago, I had begun experimenting with the above technique, feeling energy between my hands without knowing what I was doing or realizing that this was an actual technique or what I was forming was a ki ball. After reading this thread, I began using this technique again, but with more intent. Last night, I had success with meditating and forming a ki ball. When my girlfriend arrived home from work a few hours later, I was excited to tell her about my meditation and experience with the ki ball. I asked her to watch while I attempted to make another one and see if she could perceive it. I expected that she might be able to perceive it as a slight warmth or tingling sensation. I rubbed my hands together and began forming the ball. I then closed my eyes and visualized and felt white light coming from the universe through the top of my head, flowing through me, then out through my fingertips and into a ball. My g/f then complained of a ringing in her ears and asked me to stop. I absorbed the ball back into my hands and let it dissipate. I asked if the ringing if stopped and she said that it had. She thought for a few moments and then asked my to try it again. This time, as I prepared to form the ball with my eyes closed, I pulled a greater surge of energy through the top of my head. I very slowly let it course through me, then suddenly, fed it into my hands. I hadn't explained to my g/f what I was doing other than forming an energy ball and she had no idea what I was visualizing. The instant I fed the energy into my hands, she let out a loud, startled "Ah!". The reaction took me by surprise, so I lost control and felt like the energy ball exploded and shot out in all directions into the room. I asked her what had happened that had made her react like that. She said that her ears started ringing again, but this time even louder and at a much higher pitch. (She is a musician and said it sounded like a very high pitch above any note she had every heard.) Even though this was late and we were both tired beforehand, after this happened we were both wide awake. I felt like I had just drank three shots of espresso and was visibly shaking for a while.
This experience proved to me that not only I am able to create ki balls that I can feel and experience, but it can effect others around me, too. I worry that manipulating energy I don't understand can be dangerous. I certainly think losing control and throwing it around the living room is not a good idea. The feeling it gave me was incredible and now find the urge to channel this energy irresistible. I know that I can use the energy for creating intentions, but how do I go about doing this? What are other uses for it? If I am simply practicing forming the ki ball, what is the safest way to dissipate it? Is it ok to absorb it back into my energy?
You can transfer it to a Leyden jar and sell it on eBay.