Tulpa/Tulpae

Hey guys, I'd like to continue Avalanche's thread about this topic as I only discovered it last night and I find this highly intriguing.

Anybody had any personal experiences with this? If so, what was it like? How long did it take you? Positive/negative aspects? There's one thing about this that worries me, and that pertains to the field of dissociation. Does this remove one from real-life, per se? Or does it enhance it?

Also, here's a pretty good resource for finding out more about this, for those unacquainted, also contained in Avalanche's original thread: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22094512/tul...ers/Irish.html

Hello,

I read the link that you gave and I have to say that I never would of known that my imaginary friends that seemed to have their own entities where very connected to a Tupla.

I remember being three very clearly, yes, it was a very memorable age for me unlike most who don't remember a lot from their early childhood memories.

It started when I would talk to this entity that seemed to be interested in my thoughts and actions related to my thoughts and also my creativity. Okay this might seem too crazy and one might ask how I would know and all I can say 'its what i remember'. I remember this entity having many personalities similar to those of Fred from the drop dead Fred movie and he was also very wise and peculiar. He didn't have just one appearance and He didn't look like me (not to confuse with doppelganger twin) but sometimes he was very similar to me and had a sassy mouth. One time in particular I remember wanting something from a shelf but I couldn't reach it so I asked what it was he said it was a flute and that if I wanted it that I better take it now because it might not be there later. Later on when I found my way up it was a flute and then it disappeared. I think my mom took it back.

This tulpa/imaginary friend/entity would tell me unbelievable things that I will not discuss on here because they won't be taken literally but they were indeed very literal and came to be. I don't want to be appointed that I'm only crazy and I must have been "seeing things".

At one point in time I did have a storage room of information within my mind when I was in early grade school. I kept it open for my imaginary friends hoping they'd understand me for what I know and more.

All lot more is to be said about my experience with this but I am still a little uncomfortable with sharing some of it since it is a little beyond and I don't quite understand what I have experience because it seems modern day technology and knowledge is to skeptical of this accounts that I have had.

I tried making one once, but for some reason I kept subconsciously trying to kill it and I got too tiring saving it every day, occasionally multiple times a day, so I just gave up.

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Originally Posted by LifeDreamer

Hello,

I read the link that you gave and I have to say that I never would of known that my imaginary friends that seemed to have their own entities where very connected to a Tupla.

I remember being three very clearly, yes, it was a very memorable age for me unlike most who don't remember a lot from their early childhood memories.

It started when I would talk to this entity that seemed to be interested in my thoughts and actions related to my thoughts and also my creativity. Okay this might seem too crazy and one might ask how I would know and all I can say 'its what i remember'. I remember this entity having many personalities similar to those of Fred from the drop dead Fred movie and he was also very wise and peculiar. He didn't have just one appearance and He didn't look like me (not to confuse with doppelganger twin) but sometimes he was very similar to me and had a sassy mouth. One time in particular I remember wanting something from a shelf but I couldn't reach it so I asked what it was he said it was a flute and that if I wanted it that I better take it now because it might not be there later. Later on when I found my way up it was a flute and then it disappeared. I think my mom took it back.

This tulpa/imaginary friend/entity would tell me unbelievable things that I will not discuss on here because they won't be taken literally but they were indeed very literal and came to be. I don't want to be appointed that I'm only crazy and I must have been "seeing things".

At one point in time I did have a storage room of information within my mind when I was in early grade school. I kept it open for my imaginary friends hoping they'd understand me for what I know and more.

All lot more is to be said about my experience with this but I am still a little uncomfortable with sharing some of it since it is a little beyond and I don't quite understand what I have experience because it seems modern day technology and knowledge is to skeptical of this accounts that I have had.

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Highly interesting imo. I don't think you're crazy in the slightest.

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Originally Posted by Robo

I tried making one once, but for some reason I kept subconsciously trying to kill it and I got too tiring saving it every day, occasionally multiple times a day, so I just gave up.

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What do you mean by ''saving it every day''? Or, for that matter, what do you mean by ''I kept subconsciously trying to kill it''?

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As an update, I've started my own 'journey' into this whole Tupla thing. I'm a little bit skeptical about it's legitimacy, but I suspect that it's probably due to the fact that, well, how often can you manifest something in reality from merely thinking about it? It kind of feels like I'm wasting my time but since it's going to help with concentration and visualisation (imagination too, I suppose), I can't see the harm in it. For someone like myself who has artistic talent, it could produce positive side-effects, in theory.

So far I've spent about an hour and a half trying to suss out personality first and foremost, as recommended in the guides I read. When I first started, I had no idea what to do or how to do it - I'm still kind of lost but I've made some kind of progress - but it's a little bit easier to get that general feel for what my Tulpa is like on the inside.

I wasn't sure how to 'contain' these different traits and such so I've decided to go with the whole ''Wonderland'' idea. I spent about 5 minutes (if even that) drawing out a rough idea of a colourful and tranquil fantasy lake thing, with stone steps leading towards it so that I would find it easier to imagine this place. I'm attempting to feed energy into this lake until I feel I'm ready to start creating a physical form. I'm doing this by imagining myself stood up/sat down in front of this lake and speaking to my Tulpa, telling it what it's personality is; e.g: ''You are trustworthy; you don't tell lies. You believe that honesty is very important'' and while I do this these little (ranging to big) kind of crystal balls appear in my hand, filled with energy, and I place them into the lake in some form and then either give it a push or it goes towards the centre by it's own accord - at some point submerging and joining the rest of them at the bottom.

I'm not sure whether it's because I finished near 3am or because of what I was doing, but I felt rather exhausted afterwards with a slight headache. Apparently this can happen, so I may be making progress. :)

EDIT: Oh, and to help myself remember all these things, I have a blank journal that I 'christened' last night. While I'm feeding my Tulpa energy, I'm simultaneously writing all these things down.

I think It's because I have an overactive imagination or something when I pay too much attention to my mind, but every time I would sit down to tulpaforce after my tulpa was near completion, My mind would have thought of some bizarre scenario where I had to "save" my tulpa from death or worse.

These could take hours to finish completely, I was able to go about my day for the most part while doing them, but I had to focus on both reality and fantasy at the same time and It got very tiring, and doing anything other than walking around town was nigh impossible while attempting these tasks. So I decided to just stop trying.

That's... strange. :?

Ever considered making another one?

I agree, it is strange. I've thought about trying, but I don't think it's a good idea for me.

So basically the idea is to give yourself schizophrenia?

That is one way to put it, or you can call it an imaginary friend.

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Originally Posted by Supernova

So basically the idea is to give yourself schizophrenia?

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No, as that condition is a chemical imbalance. No amount of imagining gives somebody a chemical change - you're either born with it, or you do too many drugs.

I though I had created a tulpa once but it was just a fart.

Tulpas are more than just "imaginary friends". The idea is that once you bring the thoughtform to life, it takes on a life of its own, and often other people can see it.

Here is an excerpt from Magic and Mystery in Tibet by Alexandra David-Neel.:
On the Creation of Tulpas

Alexandra David-Neel was a french explorer who traveled in Lhasa and brought the concept of tulpas to the west.

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Originally Posted by hermine_hesse

The idea is that once you bring the thoughtform to life, it takes on a life of its own, and often other people can see it.

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In the right context, I can agree with bringing something to life... but ''other people can see it''? Complete crap. It's a hallucination - you can't subject people to your hallucinations.

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Originally Posted by hermine_hesse

Tulpas are more than just "imaginary friends". The idea is that once you bring the thoughtform to life, it takes on a life of its own, and often other people can see it.

Here is an excerpt from Magic and Mystery in Tibet by Alexandra David-Neel.:
On the Creation of Tulpas

Alexandra David-Neel was a french explorer who traveled in Lhasa and brought the concept of tulpas to the west.

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So... Where's Jesus?

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Originally Posted by Abra

So... Where's Jesus?

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Stay on-topic. This is by no means related to religion.

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Originally Posted by LucidJuggalo

In the right context, I can agree with bringing something to life... but ''other people can see it''? Complete crap. It's a hallucination - you can't subject people to your hallucinations.

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Huh? Why did you start a thread on tulpas if you are going to dismiss relevant information on them so easily? What is your purpose in making a tulpa? Tibetan Buddhism and Bon traditions define a tulpa as a being created by a magician, yogi, or collective consciousness of a village that has a separate, conscious existence outside of its maker. If what you are "creating" is just an imaginary friend only you can see, that is not a tulpa. Tulpas are usually only created by very skilled yogis as focus on a yidam or with a specific purpose in mind. I actually doubt that anyone who isn't extremely advanced in meditation could consciously accomplish this feat. I don't have any first hand knowledge of tulpas, so maybe I'm wrong on this part. I do, however, have experience with shared hallucinations, and know this is definitely possible.

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Originally Posted by Abra

So... Where's Jesus?

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I'm not sure if you are implying that Jesus is a tulpa, or that he actually brought the idea of tulpas to the West. Either one sounds interesting to me. Please elaborate.

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Originally Posted by LucidJuggalo

Stay on-topic. This is by no means related to religion.

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Tulpas are related to religion. It is a Buddhist concept. Furthermore, if a tulpa ghost can be created by a village that a unsuspecting traveler can experience (this is not a fact I am claiming, this is what Buddhist/Bon tradition claims), then it is not hard to extend that idea further and claim all gods, religious figures, paranormal beings are possibly tulpa.

No, no, I mean a lot of people believe Jesus exists. So where's our tupla-Jesus?

Jesus, God, Satan and Santa Claus all have Tulpas, or thought-forms. These are not free thinking thought-forms, their existence is the gestalt of the belief people have for them, not some self-aware entity born from the belief.

Reminds me of this:

NST - Named Subconscious Technique - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

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Originally Posted by LucidJuggalo

No, as that condition [schizophrenia] is a chemical imbalance. No amount of imagining gives somebody a chemical change - you're either born with it, or you do too many drugs..

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Schizophrenia is a category of symptoms, with the word literally meaning split mind. The definition assumes nothing about the cause, chemical or otherwise.

A sufficiently traumatic memory can often push a person into schizophrenia, as a person tries to protect themselves from it. And a sensate experience isn't essentially different from a self-induced lucid experience, from the standpoint of the person who experiences it, depending on how confused they become about what the experience represents.

A person can argue that schizophrenia as a result of traumatic stress had an underlying congenital or drug "chemical" cause. However, all sane people have at least mild predispositions towards various mental disfunctions, and these predispositions are largely unknown, so in this sense its an academic distinction. In any case, use of imagination definitely alters connections in a person's brain. And if what is imagined is radical and self-reinforcing, it is not easily undone.

I've never done any kind of drugs, but two 'conscious' parts of my mind do work with a high degree of independence. Though I was no doubt predisposed to this, it is also to a significant extent a result of meditative practice. And all people already have parts of their mind that work independently of other parts. This allows people to multi-task, and protects important 'subconscious' processes from being overpowered by other impulses. The lines that divide these aren't entirely set in concrete though, a person has some latitude to alter them and empower the different parts differently, by intentionally becoming aware of the the interrelationships.

I'm completely sane in the sense that the two conscious 'sides' are objectively honest and share a lot of information with other, but there is a clear division, and not everything is immediately shared. I suspect that I could push this to a full-blown split personality 'disorder' if I had a reason to. In any case, I think you're right to have a doubt about 'dissociation', and if it were me I wouldn't pursue the subject unless I needed to. If you create a 'tulpa' its like having a mental child, you can't just make it disappear back into its imaginative womb, or lock it away in a subconscious closet someplace, the moment you tire of it.

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Originally Posted by LucidJuggalo

In the right context, I can agree with bringing something to life... but ''other people can see it''? Complete crap. It's a hallucination - you can't subject people to your hallucinations.

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You were asking about tulpas. Yes you can subject other people to your hallucinations if you make it their hallucination also. This is easier with some degree of willingness on their part, and it would be wrong otherwise, but it doesn't require their understanding of what's going on. We've talked about this a lot on this site in the context of shared dreaming, but I've seen this in waking life also. If you think that this is delusional, based on your beliefs and experience, then maybe this is more evidence that you don't want to try to find out more about tulpas. Clearly there's a correlation between delusion and experience with tulpas, and who knows which is causal.

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Originally Posted by Original Poster

Jesus, God, Satan and Santa Claus all have Tulpas, or thought-forms. These are not free thinking thought-forms, their existence is the gestalt of the belief people have for them, not some self-aware entity born from the belief.

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Are there any free thinking thought-forms then? If so, how do they come into being?

Tentatively I don't believe that thought-forms exist independent of their physical hosts. However, in my experience they can exist independently of particular hosts, sort of like how software doesn't exist without computer hardware, but doesn't depend on any particular computer. And in my experience some thought-forms are highly intelligent, and probably self aware.

I think that Jesus has in recent times existed as self aware spirit, even though I don't believe the redemption-through-the-son-of-God mythology, and I don't know how closely connected that spirit is with the historical cult leader. I don't know about Satan or other gods. And I could only speculate on how long a conscious thought form might persist, to what extent it just appears where conditions are right then disappears again, just like everything else does, apparently.

I don't see how a person could possibly know that a given god does not have self-aware entities that are born from it, or even many of them.

Well now we're getting into the concept of self-awareness. Everything is a system of information, consciousness or self-awareness is the result of mental activity. Are tulpae less self-aware than a human being? Probably not. That doesn't make them anything more than an accumulation of what people think about them.

I'm more than an accumulation of what people think about me.

I also have some limited capacity to choose who I am, apparently. It seems to me that a tulpa ought to have even more freedom in that sense, because its not as locked into a single person's physiology.

I've read that other animals aren't self aware. I speculate that this perception is mostly a rationalization by meat eaters, certainly I can't square it with what I know about animals, granted that they're not self aware in entirely the same way that a human is. I've read in the same sources that gods are nothing more than an accumulation of what people think about them. I speculate that this perception is similarly motivated, that people want to be at the top of the volitional food chain. Again it doesn't seem to fit with my experience though. It seems plausible or even likely to me that some entities have no thoughts about themselves besides the thoughts that people have about them. However, the entities themselves are significantly responsible for those thoughts, they provide the intuitions and create the experiences that trigger those thoughts. In a sense our thoughts are their thoughts also, but their intelligence is not subsidiary to ours.

Unfortunately you're making too many assumptions based on what I said and I'm not coming across as I intend to.

I do not mean to place human beings at the top of some hierarchy. I mean to remind you that self-awareness is a completely unjustified concept. You are more than what people think of you, yes, but is your self-awareness more than a defense mechanism against what others think of you? Who is the real you? Is it anything more than an animal?

There are two sides of man, the belief and the truth. The belief are the ideas you have, and the truth are what stands apart from them. Ethos is the accumulation of everything you believe to be true. But it's not really true, it's just what you think is true. This accumulation is often confused with the self. But it is not self. It is a translation, reflection or conceptualization. Animals are free from belief, they live in truth. But that doesn't mean beliefs are dead. It simply means they are kept alive purely through the power they sap from us when we believe they are true. You are not an accumulation of what people think of you, but the concept you have of you is simply a reflection which changes according to each person's beliefs about you, including your own. None of them are true, including your own. Behind that is the animal before it bit from the fruit of the tree of knowledge. You do stand apart from it, but your "self-awareness" or ego does not stand apart from it. It was fabricated.

For the most part, we give life to parasites, such as the belief that "I'm not good enough." This belief, by itself, is a living organism in the realm of the immortals, which is to say in the abstract world of ideas. And it seeps us of our power because we believe it's true. Tulpae work the same way, but we can regain power over our tulpa, along with every other concept we breathe life into, by reminding ourselves that it's our choice to believe in everything we believe in. Self-awareness is another belief we create and it separates us from our environment and entangles itself in many other beliefs once we decide to compare and contrast ourselves with everything that is not us. There is no stagnant concept that is you, but believing there is creates in itself something that robs you of your power. It leads to venomous tulpae such as the "I'm not good enough" tulpa. Break all beliefs that do not serve you.

I've been thinking about how much upkeep a tulpa actually needs once it has been declared by oneself that it has it's own thought-formation existence. When I think about this manifestation of mental energy, tulpa, I thought about how it would be possibly to help the tulpa to tune in into your chakra and with that somehow helping it become more aware about energy and vibrational effects of the body and mind so that it can manifest itself into greater ability. I think it would be interesting if one could become more in-tune with themselves by manipulating or helping a tulpa understand oneself and possibly extend this into greater ability of an ultimate awareness of not just oneself but of everything (within our own capacity of course).

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Originally Posted by Original Poster

I mean to remind you that self-awareness is a completely unjustified concept.

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Apparently we're not talking about the same thing when we say self awareness.

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Originally Posted by Original Poster

Animals are free from belief, they live in truth.

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An animal has a self-image, if of a simpler and different kind than a human self-image. It can't function in relation to its environment without it.

I'm not assuming I understand what you mean when I say this. Likewise for my earlier statements. You said something that seems true to you. I said something that seems true to me, and which seems relevant. Maybe you can correctly guess the meaning of the words I'm using from the way I'm using them, maybe you can't. Probably neither one of us understood the other except partially. There isn't some more direct criticism that I'm trying to make which is lurking behind my statements.

A self-image seems to me to be a simplified distillation of self-awareness, which is limited. As such, it can be distorted, folded, inverted, misleading. And compounded with layers upon layers of such distortions. But not of a fundamentally different essence than truth.

By the way, I think you should animate that last supper picture, and add sound effects, since its what other people see while they type. Might as well go all in.

When I first heard about tulpa years ago, I started to get worried that my anime obsession meant I had tulpas in my head!

I was really obsessed about this one anime, since childhood. I had made a website dedicated to the anime and the website was just for fanfiction and fanart. It was dedicated to the fandom and I couldn't get enough of it. I wanted more fanfiction, more fanart. I secretly still feel that way.

But over the years I started to notice that the characters were - changing. Its as if the characters had a life of their own *something authors experience a lot*. And they weren't just "alive", they had taken on characteristics from the fans.

So there were all these anime fans, with really charged emotions and they were pouring all their emo-ism and angst into the same imaginary characters. Daily.

Things started to get weird for me. Anything relating to the anime made me really emotional - unhealthily emotional. I went from being able to draw fanart as a fun silly past time to.... if I even try to draw fanart my mind is exploded with all these emotions. I felt crazy. I didn't feel myself either.

I closed my website and I tried to avoid the fandom as much as I could. It helped, but only a little bit. If I even thought about the characters on my own that whole emotional world explodes in my head again. I finally decided I had to make some sense of this mess. I did a crazy technique that authors do - pretend the character is real and have a conversation, lol.

So I sat down, got a piece a paper and I long conversation with these imaginary characters and why they make me feel crazy. I was shocked with what I found. I found all these emotions and ideas I didn't recognize. I didn't really recognize them as being my emotions or my ideas. I didn't recognize these emotions or ideas as having come from the anime either. Where the hell did they come from?

When I looked at what I found - it was like my best friend was in the room with me! These were her ideas and emotions, but not just hers alone.

I met her through my website. She was a fanfiction writer and fanartist. But, she was also suffering from clinical depression and her views over the anime were simply dismal. Well her entire outlook on life was dismal. There were tons of emo fans who made the anime really depressing like them. I hated reading emo fanfiction. But since I was the website owner I felt obligated to read every submission.

I felt gross. I just wanted these foreign thoughts and emotions out of my head. They had been there for years.

I found, I wasn't the only one who had this same experience. My other close friend, who I also met through the website, she used to love drawing fanart. It was a silly fun thing to do. Years after being a fan and frequenting my website, things dramatically changed for her. Anything relating to the anime made her depressed. And she confided in me, that it was overwhelming. She couldn't watch the anime, she couldn't read the manga. She had to completely disassociate from it.

The characters had become MONSTERS created by the fans. They didn't even resemble anything from the anime anymore. You had to be in the fandom to understand.

Things really did get weird for me. There was one point where I couldn't focus on anything constructive. If I tried to meditate, I got sleepy. If I tried to focus on my art, I got sleepy. Yoga, too sleepy. I didn't have the motivation to do anything...but dream of the anime I was obsessed with even if it makes me depressed.......Wait, what the hell is wrong with me?

I went to my favorite spiritual website. The website suggested I was under slight demonic possession. Well damn. I followed the websites instructions to call out to Archangel Micheal for protection and went to sleep. The next two weeks were awesome! I had never felt so energized. All of the crippling symptoms of depression vanished.

But if I even think about that anime...even for a little bit....it comes back! And its so hard to not think about this thing that had been a part of your little nerdy fandom world since you were seven! So for me, this is a tulpa. It lives in my head because I'm crazy. All I can do, is starve it.

I also think I've "seen" the tulpas. For me, its two tulpas, because there were two central characters in the story. I've seen them in sleep paralysis. Two shadow beings looming over my bed. The freaky thing is they never freak me out. When I saw them it was like "well of course theyre standing there, why not? They've always been there".

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Originally Posted by juroara

When I first heard about tulpa years ago....

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Great post, thanks for sharing. At the end does starving them work? I understand that there have to be walls, and limitations. But in the end is there some part of you in it that you can't just lock away in a dark room forever, that you have to integrate with the rest of you and do something positive with? I'm not trying to imply this, I'm really asking, because I'm not sure. Tentatively, it seems to me that the spirits have to have a proper place in the scheme of things, its just become distorted somehow, like a small child who becomes boss of the house when raised by weak willed grandparents.

I've had very specific thoughts and events from my life show up in fictional stories written by people I've never met. They are definitely psychically connected to their readers somehow. How to protect oneself? I'm mostly closed off, my artistic ability is almost totally shut down and undeveloped, along with most of my empathy and social grace, because I don't understand how to be open and protect myself. Other people's emotions grasp, seduce, they don't have a motive not to do that. Is there any motive that I can have that allows me to be open without losing myself? I'm thinking no, that for now its just a price we pay for being human, that the kind of openness I desire is only possible where our desires are better.

Gotta go.

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Originally Posted by shadowofwind

Great post, thanks for sharing. At the end does starving them work? I understand that there have to be walls, and limitations. But in the end is there some part of you in it that you can't just lock away in a dark room forever, that you have to integrate with the rest of you and do something positive with? I'm not trying to imply this, I'm really asking, because I'm not sure. Tentatively, it seems to me that the spirits have to have a proper place in the scheme of things, its just become distorted somehow, like a small child who becomes boss of the house when raised by weak willed grandparents.

I've had very specific thoughts and events from my life show up in fictional stories written by people I've never met. They are definitely psychically connected to their readers somehow. How to protect oneself? I'm mostly closed off, my artistic ability is almost totally shut down and undeveloped, along with most of my empathy and social grace, because I don't understand how to be open and protect myself. Other people's emotions grasp, seduce, they don't have a motive not to do that. Is there any motive that I can have that allows me to be open without losing myself?

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Equanimity, compassion. mercy and, if you feel up to it, love is the ultimate balm for the open heart. They're just like muscles which, after having not been flexed for a long time, become emaciated. Adopting a practice specifically for the development of loving-kindness like metta, or another self-forgiveness discipline is the best way to 'keep one's nose clean', so to speak, in highly sympathetic states of being. well-developed skill in concentration always helps too, since thought-forms depend almost entirely on how much attention they can attract from you, being able to easily move one's concentrated awareness from one object of meditation to another without 'getting stuck' is a great ally.

Also, and this is just a friendly suggestion - take up a creative pursuit. Mastery of the creative faculties is the best way to seal up 'psychic' holes, heal old mental wounds and integrate negative experiences.

Firstly, I have a Tulpa, and still consider the metaphysical theories of Tulpa creation and their abilities to be false. A Tulpa is a psychological phenomenon that can sometimes be accidentally created, but in most cases have to be created on purpose. You can ask us anything and we will do our best to answer. However you can find more detailed information about the creation process and their abilities at Tulpa.info

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Originally Posted by Teryakywind

Firstly, I have a Tulpa, and still consider the metaphysical theories of Tulpa creation and their abilities to be false. A Tulpa is a psychological phenomenon that can sometimes be accidentally created, but in most cases have to be created on purpose. You can ask us anything and we will do our best to answer. However you can find more detailed information about the creation process and their abilities at Tulpa.info

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'Psychological phenomenon' seems to imply that your tulpa doesn't do stuff like speak to other people or mess with electronic equipment. Mine started demonstrating that sort of thing about two years ago, at the same time it started talking to me less. Now it's no longer with me, at least not in a tulpa-like manner. My impression was that it existed for a purpose, and it would have been unhealthy for it to persist after that purpose was completed.

I realize this sounds crazy. I can't care too much about that.

Maybe you can ask your tulpa about mine, see if it thinks it knows anything. Mine, if it's still around, should be able to communicate with yours.

I only started using the word tulpa this last week, but it's a better fit than the muse/demon/poltergeist combo I was using before.

I don't even know what the religious theories about tulpa are, beyond what was posted here, but I'd probably disagree with them if I did.

Basically when I say psychological, I mean that the Tulpa cannot interact with the world around you in any way, beyond using its hosts body to do so. We have a member on the Tulpa.info forums who is trying to see if having a Tulpa would affect the results of a brain scan (EEG, MRI, or similar), but even that is as of yet inconclusive. We see such instances as, for example, if you walked past your TV and it turned off seemingly by itself, as being your Tulpa manipulating external sensory input. This has been proven possible; not only can you fool your brain into seeing your Tulpa in the real world, there have been people whose Tulpa helped them to turn the sky red.

I am part of the camp that dismisses a Tulpa as both a religious and metaphysical phenomenon, so I try to keep it in the realm of (pseudo)science.

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Originally Posted by Teryakywind

Basically when I say psychological, I mean that the Tulpa cannot interact with the world around you in any way, beyond using its hosts body to do so. We have a member on the Tulpa.info forums who is trying to see if having a Tulpa would affect the results of a brain scan (EEG, MRI, or similar), but even that is as of yet inconclusive. We see such instances as, for example, if you walked past your TV and it turned off seemingly by itself, as being your Tulpa manipulating external sensory input. This has been proven possible; not only can you fool your brain into seeing your Tulpa in the real world, there have been people whose Tulpa helped them to turn the sky red.

I am part of the camp that dismisses a Tulpa as both a religious and metaphysical phenomenon, so I try to keep it in the realm of (pseudo)science.

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Right, to verify that your tulpa can turn a TV off, you'd need another impartial witness, and you'd need to do it more than once, to establish a pattern.

As you must know, your tupla is highly sensitive to your beliefs. If you dismiss it as a religious and metaphysical phenomena, you will never see this. In my experience its not necessary to have faith though, just to be open to the possibility.

For the sky turning red, manipulating sensory perception rather than the sky would be the natural way to do that. The assignment of color to light spectra is in the brain anyway, and changing the way the atmosphere refracts light would be prohibitively difficult. Even if a tupla was causing other people to see the sky as red, it would still be by altering their perceptions not the sky.

Alright then. I'm not the best at interpreting what she has to say, but let's go ahead and experiment. Give me your tulpa's name and I'll see if mine has anything to say about it.

Alright then, make of this what you will....

My tulpa doesn't have a name that I'm aware of. It should be able to find you. It usually interacts with people by creating parable-like dreams, but since you're in waking contact with your tulpa, I would guess that would work.

As I think I've mentioned, it hasn't been very active in recent months that I've been aware of. In the past that meant that it was more available for interacting with other people, but I don't know what the situation is now.

If you have any dreams that seemed foreign or unusual tonight, or last night, I suggested sending them to me and I might be able to interpret.

If you want something like a name to key into, try this (picked somewhat at random):

Douce Dame Jolie - Annwn [ Orbis Alia Album ] High Quality - YouTube

When I've asked for a name, I've gotten images that communicate something of the nature of it, but they seem kind of generic, like the moon, or a white owl.

You might try the name 'red sky', a name that might describe a part of me. This is 'red cloud', but English forces a conceptual choice between singular and plural even when the choice doesn't apply, so 'cloud' isn't quite the right thought.

For about three years my 'tulpa' or whatever it was would push well developed thoughts fairly strongly into my mind. Last night I was aware at that level, but the other active mind wasn't doing that. I was just passive, helpless, and ignorant, out of my element. For about the past year its as if I'm supposed to fly the plane now, but I don't have any idea how, no muscles in that area.

I've always been bothered by ideas that require belief to work because of their inherent unverifiable nature; there is no possible objective view because the viewer becomes part of the situation. (There's an interesting resonance there with quantum effects and the absurdity of the observer having the effect on the situation.) There's just so little you can delve into with that sort of idea because if you try to take it apart, it stops working. We're not on a sufficiently high level to see how these things work. (They do work, but whether it's a spiritual effect, a hallucination, undiscovered psychological effects, undiscovered psi, effects of observation on the universe, I cannot say.) This is what has always made Inner Sanctum problematic to me. I cannot force myself to believe anymore. In theory the idea that the belief then causes the effect is quite logical (see yourself somewhere, and then you'll eventually be that, due to a whole host of psychological effects) but depression makes it difficult for one, and things that are well outside the physical sphere I still have a problem with, for two.

Tulpas on the other hand; I know them, if perhaps not with an experienced hand, at least fairly intimately. There is something that I feel was touched on earlier in the thread, which was the idea of entities who don't actually have any sort of existence outside the mental processes of others, and yet have significant effects, make their own decisions on issues, etc. This isn't a foreign concept; any writer will know that their characters sometimes deviate in unexpected directions, or push back against certain ideas. When a character is given certain traits by a large group then the lines start to become more blurred. If a number of people agree that Santa Claus and this guy on the street who's giving out money are both generous then their constructions are very similar to these people.

That was a bit of a digression and I'm not really sure where I was going with it.

Anyway, first entity I'd call a tulpa in the traditional sense is/was Rax, who you may have heard me talk about before a few years ago. He was brought on by a strange IRC channel who were making familiars through hypnosis to try and help them hypnotize themselves. The thing got a bit fucked and out of hand and I ended up with Rax (who was a dark purple catdragon - don't ask me, he was really more like a cat except for a weird pointed snout) who would be a classic example of the hallucinatory sort of tulpa. He hung around inside my head, nattered on a bit; eventually he started walking around outside. You'd know there was nothing there; but he was standing or sitting there anyway. He was around for a few months, and faded out for no particular reason that I can discern. Probably my nervous breakdown; I didn't really have any energy to put in.

I guess there's not that much to say about Rax now. He was a hell of a lot more optimistic than I was at the time; he was prodding at the train door one time when I was meant to get off there and hadn't remembered. If he'd told me that would've helped; but if only the most experienced yogis can make separate entities, I certainly wasn't up to it at age 14. I'm probably less up to it now.

Second up, Juroara's story has an uncanny resonance with part of my life, and I'm vaguely concerned now.

I've read good and bad things about them. What's the worst that could happen?

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Originally Posted by Woodstock

I've read good and bad things about them. What's the worst that could happen?

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You go insane, I guess.

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Originally Posted by Lseadragon

Second up, Juroara's story has an uncanny resonance with part of my life, and I'm vaguely concerned now.

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Oh don't worry about it too much. You just want to pass your seed on. It's natural and you should just let it happen.

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Originally Posted by tempusername

Oh don't worry about it too much. You just want to pass your seed on. It's natural and you should just let it happen.

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???

It seems to me that the character of a tulpa would tend to reflect the thought that produces it. So if it happens relatively naturally, and you don't go into weird contortions trying produce it, then it shouldn't be much of a problem. Of course it will tend to have whatever deranged characteristics you already have, but that's a similar kind of problem tulpa or no tulpa.

At the risk of contradicting myself, the question reminds me of that insane half demon half human monster that beowulf kills at the beginning of the story. I felt bad for it.

I don't know if my 'muse' qualified as a tulpa, maybe it doesn't, but it did feel like an invisible spiritual birth in some way.

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Originally Posted by Lseadragon

???

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Hey what happened to your thread about bullshit? I signed int o reply to it and it's fucking locked

I had something to tell user Nivv who had said

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Well we have to occupy ourselves somehow, you know.

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That is absolutely right. I told you, we are sages... seven-colored blossoms, timeless, self-inspirered, august prodigies exalted on high to ejaculate ourselves into the universe

It is written and so it shall be(!), forever, unless you're willing to change

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Originally Posted by Lseadragon

story has an uncanny resonance with part of my life, and I'm vaguely concerned now.

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^


uncanny
resonance
my life
concern

fvaguely concerned
look at you do you see what i Mean?

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Originally Posted by tempusername

Hey what happened to your thread about bullshit? I signed int o reply to it and it's fucking locked

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Nina interpreted it as spam. I had a point to make that I find subjective experiences very difficult but I was drunk and it came out badly.

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Originally Posted by tempusername

look at you do you see what i Mean?

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No, not really. Explain?

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Originally Posted by Lseadragon

Nina interpreted it as spam. I had a point to make that I find subjective experiences very difficult but I was drunk and it came out badly.

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Oh how unfortunate. You should probably avoid drinking while posting on public forums. Miscommunication and public displays of intentional vulnerability should never be something to strive for in a community setting.

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No, not really. Explain?

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I guess it's only appropriate with my stance on progeny that I shouldn't be fond of spoon-feeding.

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Originally Posted by LucidJuggalo

No, as that condition is a chemical imbalance. No amount of imagining gives somebody a chemical change - you're either born with it, or you do too many drugs.

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Actually, the brain is very plastic and can change easily. It wouldn't be that far-fetched for it to give itself a chemical imbalance. Also, no one really knows exactly why schizophrenia happens. Often, on psych med commercials and stuff, you hear the phrase "chemical imbalance" but really, that's an oversimplification by the pharmaceutical company who makes said drug. In reality, scientist are almost entirely unsure of what causes schizophrenia, whether it be a chemical imbalance, a problem with neuronal oscilation, a brain deformity, et cetera.

But yes, having a tulpa is not really even similar to schizophrenia. You don't literally hear the voice, and you don't literally "see" it. It's more of a mild image in your imagination. It's actually much more like DID.

Some tulpas, in some circumstances, can cause audial hallucinations. I agree with everything else you said though.