Tried Lucid Dreaming for Four Years, Almost No Luck

I've been trying to lucid dream since 8th grade. I spent the last month of that summer getting into the habit of reality checks, writing in a dream journal, etc. The problem is I have only had about 5 ld's in my life, all under one minute. I had these about three to four years ago, and I even do a reality check every THIRTY SECONDS out of habit.... but the habit never bleeds into the dream...

Anyway, I've tried WILD, MILD, almost every main technique at least once. I have been on and off writing in a journal to the point where I don't bother because I don't have time in the morning, not to mention I can barely write correctly when I wake up. I also don't know how much detail to write, usually it was a page or so every night. I'm currently still performing reality checks (plug nose and try to breath through it, I do HUNDEREDS of these a day out of habit now and idk if I should try to break that habit since it's not working), using a program called Subliminal Blaster to show subliminal messages related to lucid dreaming (I'm on a pc about 6-8 hours a day), and using a Remee (lucid dreaming mask) since I got it two days ago. I think I'll just have to get used to the feeling of sleeping with a mask because I've had problems getting to sleep and waking up with it off.

What should I try? What am I doing wrong?

Other info:
- I am a very visual person, I see things and understand them very clearly
- I have one week of off time before I get back into my normal schedule for school

Welcome to Dreamviews!:)

What I do is as I fall asleep, I watch the blackness behind my eyelids until I see my next dream. It's mostly a MILD technique though I get WILDs with it as well. Since you're a visual person, this might work well for you.

You gotta take a break! Whenever I take a break from all the lucid dreaming stuff, I have a lucid dream quickly and its not so stressful!

FOUR YEARS? Holy -blam!-.
That is horrible.
I used to have natural DILDs all the time, now I only get 1 a month- which is why I'm making an effort with WILDing before bed. It's not easy, but at least it can work for me.

Dude... Do you have an alarm which turns itself off in a few seconds? A BlackBerry would do this, or a PC program or some program you could buy for iPhone or Android...
If you do have such an alarm, you need to sleep 8 hours a day at least, and go to sleep and wake up at the same time EVERY DAY. After a few days of this, set your alarm for 1 hour before your waking time. DO NOT move. There's your easy DEILD!
I hope you have success soon, but I do recommend WILD techniques as you make a conscious effort rather than relying on your subconscious.

Like USA said, you need to take a break! But be careful at just how long you take this break. I wouldn't recommend any longer than a month. But if you want motivation... Just imagine you can do anything you want! I believe that's enough to never give up.
Oh and by the way welcome to Dreamviews :content:
- GangsterPanda,

Thank you all for the advice, but I haven't been trying so hard for four years. I would get on it again for a week a year after I spent a month doing it 4 years ago. I only have 6 days before I can't get so much sleep every night. Also whenever I try WILD, I end up not being able to go to sleep, and I never know when I go to sleep, I'm just instantly asleep when my body is ready (after not tossing and turning), and if I try to stay still in bed and not roll, it feels like forever and then I don't get any progress, I don't enter sleep paralysis, I haven't had much progress with WILD.

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Originally Posted by wantwon

I even do a reality check every THIRTY SECONDS out of habit....

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There is the very first, and very important flaw I see. You should not reality check because it is a habit. That ruins the entire purpose. You should reality check to, well, check your reality. You need to really question if you are still in the real world, and not dreaming. When you get used to doing reality checks so frequently, and normally without question but purely out of habit, they will fail in your dreams. Do not do them as intervals, but have something to cue them off. Try to find your dream signs, or things that occur frequently in your dreams, and see if you can reality check whenever you notice anything is relevant to them.

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Originally Posted by wantwon

Anyway, I've tried WILD, MILD, almost every main technique at least once.

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It sounds like you could be switching techniques often. You really need to stick with one main technique, even if it fails you for over a month or longer. Think of it this way, lucid dreaming is like beating a game. You can't beat a game if you keep starting over and trying different approaches, before they have a chance to succeed. It takes one good effort to finally beat the game, with time and experience put into it.

The last thing I could advice you sounds counterproductive, but it could help. Don't focus on lucid dreaming all the time. Excluding reality checks(your decision), I would cut off everything to do with lucid dreaming for a few days, maybe 2 or 3. After that, look for a method you really want to stick to, and focus purely on that, as if you were starting a clean slate. Don't get yourself stressed out over it, that's the worst you can do. Just ease of a bit and you might see some improvements :)

It's fine to roll over when WILDing, a member called KingYoshi recommends it and it in my first succesful WILD attempt I rolled over a few times and still had my WILD.

Don't worry so much about the reality checks. I use them hardly at all, and I'm doing fine just with WBTB and "thinking about lucid dreaming" as I fall asleep. (about a 33% chance each time I do this)

I'm also a beginner, having started a few months ago, and have had 14 lucid dreams so far.

I think if you're doing it so often, you'll get really tired of lucid dreaming altogether. Just relax, and think about lucid dreaming casually as you fall asleep with a morning nap.

Once again, thanks for the advice. Apparently I've been trying to much, too soon. I'm trying to keep a dream journal, make time in the morning when school starts, and stop my habitual reality checks, along with trying WILD properly. I'm thinking of using relaxing music with it so I don't get bored and focused on rolling over in my physical state, has anybody on this thread tried experimenting with music? I also remember listening to about 8 minutes of lucid dream videos with binural beats embedded into the music, along with beta waves, and it would help, but idk if this will be too much with the previously mentioned things that I'm starting again. I am a musical person (despite my visual learning style) btw.

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Originally Posted by wantwon

I'm thinking of using relaxing music with it so I don't get bored and focused on rolling over in my physical state, has anybody on this thread tried experimenting with music?

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During a WILD attempt, no. I fall asleep every night listening to relaxing music though, so it may or may not give you the results you're expecting. You could easily get lost in the music and fall asleep. I don't know though, you would have to try that for yourself.

Thanks for the advice, here's what I plan for tonight, and any other night for now:
- Attempt WILD
- When awake, write in journal
- After a few days, note repeating dream signs
- Idk if I should wear my remee, since I'm still getting used to wearing a mask while trying to sleep (since I fall asleep on my left side)

Completely screw up your sleeping pattern! it does wonders for lucidity.

So here are the results from last night: I listened to about 8 minutes of delta waves, laid in bed and forgot how to WILD -_-. So I get on my ipod, look it up again from this site, try going through all the steps, can barely get hypnogaja working, give up, go to sleep, wake up about 3 times in the middle of the night, try WILD, fall asleep quickly -_-. Anyway, I didn't use my remee last night either, and I recalled 4 dreams! That's the most I have remembered in a LONG time! I know I'm making progress, but idk how to WILD since there are so many variations of it, and I just want to stick with one that I know I can do.

The reason you remembered a good amount of dreams is probably that you woke up so many times. I remember four dreams most of the time, but I only remember waking up once.

I feel your pain about falling asleep during WILD attempts :'(

So I've read some guides on WILD, but idk exactly what to do still. If there is somebody in this thread that primarily uses WILD, I would like to know how you do it, please.

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Originally Posted by wantwon

So I've read some guides on WILD, but idk exactly what to do still. If there is somebody in this thread that primarily uses WILD, I would like to know how you do it, please.

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Try this :http://www.dreamviews.com/f79/mzzkcs...-guide-105484/

First I would say stop the reality checks if they don't work. For the dj, it doesn't need to be anything detailed, I myself only write a few sentences on my phone, then copy it into a journal later. I can't really speak for the subliminal messages and such since I don't use them, but I do know there are reliable methods available without any aids needed.

Try sticking with a method for a while now. Lots of times people don't go for WILD right away because it can take some time to get into, but if you do manage to get it down you won't have to rely on chance. I would recommend you do some form of WBTB/MILD combo, just wake up for 15 mins or whatever and do your MILD. If you wake up naturally during the night you might want to do DEILD or FILD. If you want to do those but don't notice when you wake up in the night, you can look for an alarm clock with an auto snooze. Those are sort of hard to find in my experience, but I heard of one on droid which was something like alarm clock plus, and I know there is one for apple called 12,24 alarm clock.

Update: I haven't done any reality checks since I started this thread, and I am remembering about seven dreams a night, and I am also waking up during what I'm sure are REM periods. I just can't WILD though. What worked for me the first time was WBTB but that also happened when I woke up during an REM period. I'm going to try WILD a few more times before trying WBTB.

Since you are waking up multiple times naturally during the night in your REM periods, and since you have such good recall, it sounds like you might be good at DEILDing.

Here is a guide to DEILD: Yuppie's DEILD guide - The easiest way to lucid dream.

Maybe you should give it a try sometime, you might be good at it! Remember though, that whatever technique you decide to practice, practice it for at least a month before you move on to something else.

Good luck!

:shock:I had a sudden revelation that I did DEILD each time I stopped and started my lucid dreaming endeavors! Thanks ber5897! :D

Welcome to dreamviews!!!

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Originally Posted by Suck4Luck

Welcome to dreamviews!!!

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Thanks! I just realized I haven't written in my dream journal for three days >_< changing that tonight.

Four years is not that much time really. It took Stepen LaBerge, Robert Waggoner yeah you name about 20 years to learn to master control their dreaming like a playstation. The rest of the years they spent on finding methods and explanations to why their successful inductions were successful.

Luckily for us they have already done that work for us. You might have read about the WBTB, now we can with the brain's own chemistry give one of big explanations to why it is so effective. We used to just say that it makes you more aware in your dreams, you are closer to REM and the dreams get more vivid and so on.

But one question that Stephen LaBerge couldn't answer was: WHY?

First of all you should know that what I am now going to tell you haven't been observed by me (I haven't physically done experiment on this and so on).
I have simply just got motivated and inspired by the information and then tested it out and had a high success rate with it.

Also I should tell you that this shouldn't be used as a way of trying to induce something, because when you try you create an oppurtunity to fail, simply do it primarily because it is fun and observe, and when you have fun the "failues" isn't as discouraging anymore. It's better to go to sleep happy and calm than to repeat "I am dreaming" 100 times simply because it is told to be effective. If your dad told you to kick a ball against a wall a thousands time just because it is good practise for ball control wouldn't be as effective as you choosing to do that task.

Anyway I will begin by telling you what's probably the best reason for lucidity that we know so far, atleast it's a good starting point.
And that is the aminergic system. Have you ever heard that the reason to why we don't realize we are dreaming is because the logic system of the brain is shut down?
Well that is basically what the aminergic system is, a chemical system of critical thinking. It is active when we are awake and slowly get inactive as we go to sleep.
When we tell ourselves our mantra of "I will realize that I am dreaming" or something like that we simply intend that to happen, just the way we intend to raise an arm, and this is very mysterious to me how can that work at all? (I then mean some lucid dreams we have early in the night, perhaps in the first rem period.)
In the later morning it is easier to explain, because then it has to do with the biological clock that wakes the body up and the aminergic system gets active, and therefore making us critical in the dream, just before we wake up (Which can be an explanation to why we wake up so easily from a dream.)

Ok but now for the explanation to why WBTB is effective and how we can use that to ur advantage!

Now you know that the aminergic system is inactive when we are asleep, but did you know that it gets slightly more active on each awakening?
So when you go from 0 % critical thinking in dreams, WBTB (Wake up), and go to let's say 15 % critical thinknig in a dream.
You see how this can be used now? :)

You simply have to wake up and fall back to sleep and you will be more critical in your dreams, and critical thinking in dreams should provide a big chance of lucidity.
:sleepmeditate2: -> :offtobed: -> :zzz:

This is probably why (atleast for me) WBTBs is more effective than just sleeping normally and to why those nights I wake up over and over I also get lucid dreams.

But! Now when we know this we can use the information to plan our own time of lucidity!

Since it's important to time REM we can just start by sleeping 6 h and 30 minutes and then have alarm set to ring a few minutes after each other and then where you want lucidity you can set the alarm to ring later like 20-30 min later. You have probablt woke up before the alarm some time, this kind of uses the same idea.
Because since you set the alarms to ring early over and over again but then suddenly later, your mind will try to wake up on it's own before the next short alarm that never comes, and this is a bi oppurtunity to WILD/ DEILD. Although I have noticed something way cooler!

Instead of waking up for real, I wake up in the dream! Like a noticed false awakening. And I am just as aware as in reality because of the aminergic system.

Ok to summarize: One explanation to lucidity is the activation of the aminergic system, Waking up activates the aminergic system, waking up and falling asleep several times activates the aminergic system in a dream and thereby making you critical which in turn makes you lucid.

So the lucidity induction is now simple, understood, effortless and a lazy man's dream. Just fall asleep over and over again. ^-^

Also perhaps this is why the WILD is told to be more realistic than the DILDs, simply because you feel like you feel in physical reality and maintain the aminergic system active since you don't fall asleep in between.

I hope this clears some thing up. I can also add that, since you are simply waking up in the dream by critical thinking, there is no need for reality checks or general practise of awareness during the day either. It's still important have a calm mind and fall asleep peacefully so relaxing meditation can help with that.

I can also add that I use these alarms as a Plan B of Lucidity and I still practise non-external helped lucidity the 6 h and 30 minutes that I sleep before the alarms.

This is just a good way to put faith in the mechanisms of your own body, and fall asleep with knowing that there will be atleat vivid dreams experienced each night.

There is one catch with waking up over and over though, and that is that it can leave you tired for the rest of the day, so I only use this when I don't have anything really important like a test or something next day.

Ok now lucidity is no longer an obstacle, now it's all about maintaining and control and that is currently what I am working on.

But I hope that this post motivates you and can help you understand and improve your practise.

So use these tools and information to your advantage and don't go nuts with the alarm, unless you want to. ^-^

And read my Dream Journal to follow my progress with this and hopefully get even more inspired.

Sweet critical aware awesome dreams! :meditate: (Let's short down the time needed for mastery of our dreams.)

Wow MasterMind, that was a really detailed and well thought out post! I wish there were more people like you in the world. And now here is a progress update: I've not been using my remee, I have written at least something in my dream journal every morning for about a week, and I find it easy now, this is the longest I've gone consistently writing in it! :D And I am also waking up about two or three times each night, usually during REM periods! My dreams are also becoming VERY increased in detail, and I can remember them throughout the day to even recall things! I am starting to take a little control in my dreams, but not full lucidity so far. But I have noticed a major improvement by simply writing in a journal and not doing reality checks for a week now, and I'm still working on stopping myself from doing them subconsciously, because one slips every two or three days. But that is much better than doing about one a minute like I did previously. I will try to post again in a week to let anyone watching this thread know how I'm doing. :sleepmeditate2:

Once again, everybody, thanks!