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I've always been interested in dreams but I've just recently started researching lucid dreaming, and now I want to attempt to gain control of myself whilst dreaming. Question though, if one goes to sleep under the influence of drugs could this change things? I smoke some ganja on occasion, though I doubt this minor of a drug would affect anything...opinions? thanks
Yeah there are many many, drugs might not be the right word, maybe chemicals or herbs.
There's the dream herb (look it up on Wikipedia).
I've had success remembering dreams better with green tea, I think there one called Gelemaine or something like that.
Choline Bitartrate helps dream recall, remembering your dreams better.
Apple juice, or orange juice wakes your mind up and makes it more conscious.
Nutmeg I have heard is also good (though only in small doses too much can get you in a horrible high like being ill or even kill you, so like only a teaspoon I think).
Any more you remember or find out just tell me about them. :offtobed:
I've had a few lucid dreams when I was drunk. Marijauna will kill your dream recall, so does most mind altering substances.
I agree marijuana will kill your dream recall because it destroys your memory, not saying to use it to relax just use it in moderation, but drunk lucid dreaming that's weird. :shock:
FALSE!Quote:
Originally Posted by littlesamurai
Marijuana doesn't destroy you memory. it just blocks it for a while. THC is also used for old people who cannot remember much!!!!
Alcohol does destroy your memory!
yeah drunk dreaming is wweeeiird
I thought it did, oh well I guess I haven't researched up on it much, but you know stoned dreaming then would inhibit dream recall because when you're high or stoned you forget this very easily. I should try drunk dreaming, whats it like?
Actually, the reason they use it to help old people remember is because it reduces your short term memory but increases your long term memory and seeing as they honestly have neither; the lack of one for the aid of another is surely a just cause.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flo
it's hard to describe what it is like. my "drunk dreams" are like trashy splatter-movies with a lot of cuts and a weird plot :PQuote:
Originally Posted by littlesamurai
the dream makes absolutely no sense and it changes from one second to the other from comedy to horror and back again, if you know what i mean.
Speak for yourself. My memory and dream recall are not adversely affected by Marijuana.Quote:
Originally Posted by ninja9578
i dont know about illegal drugs but theres this tea called kavakava tea i take sometimes its like a natural high drug and i always have crazy dreams when i have some to night before:lol:
tell more about this teas please, i think ive heard of it before
or was that kratom, either way if you coudl provide some background i woudl appreciate it
Be careful with Kratom, it may not be that harmful but even though its legal you can get physically addicted pretty fast.
As for alkohol, ist just kills your brain cells, there is no way this is going to help your LDs in any way...
THC on the other DOES block dream recall (at least for me and everyone I know) but only if smoked up to 3 hours before going to sleep.
Another interesting thing thats happening for me and my friends is that the "withdrawal" of THC (when you smoke a lot and then stop for a day or 2) does dramatically increase the vividness of my dreams as well as my recall.
So as I usually smoke a lot of weed from thursday to sunday I get amazing dreams the rest of the week.
(This is not meant to encourage drug use in any way as even "harmless" drugs like Marijuana can be harmful in some ways and may even lead to psychic dependency)
Normally I recall two or three dreams a night, but last week I was drunk/tipsy every day and had two dream recalls in the whole week, so really, alcohol shouldn't be used when you want to go lucid. No experience with other substances' effects on dreams.
http://www.erowid.org/plants/kava/
Kava Kava.
you can buy kava kava tea at any nutrient store, like a gnc. its only about 8 dollars you mix in a milk like a protein the taste is awful but it gives you really deep relaxed feeling and makes it really easy to sleep on it..it gives me some incredible dreams when i take some at night! (ps. get the powder form not the pill)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pfister691
Well obviously
Drugs which affect the brain affect the dreams.
I have tried LDing under the influence of MARIJUANA
Before.
It made my dreams less vivid.
This is obviously personal, to whoever the user is. From what I've heard, it doesn't help usually.
That is all.
(I suggest trying it, and seeing how it works for you. But don't be expectant of great things.)
i highley reccomend kava kava tea for anyone looking to have a better chance in lds it makes my dreams very vivid and if u read on it thats one of its side effects take some a hour or 2 before you go to bed its really cheap and its a natural root !
I heard kava kava can be dangerous, is this true?
-in my experience- drugs will inhibit your abilities to have lucid dreams.
kava kava isnt dangerous aslong as you dont take to much of it at once.. i mean alot of one time! there been times where people have actually got dui`s from taking kava kava tea, it also can be dangerous if u take kava with alcohol. Aslong as you have it with no other drug (especially alcohol) and about 2 tea spoons of it there is no danger with kava it`s a natural root.
Which do you want more: the natural high of Lucid Dreams or the effects of a drug which will have bad side effects? If you get so that you can regularly have Lucid Dreams, which has no bad side effects, why ruin it? Skip the drugs.Quote:
Originally Posted by pfister691
Initially I thought you were asking if there were a drug which would actually help you have LDs. Even if there were a drug which would help me have Lucid Dreams, I wouldn't take it because then I would be dependent upon it to do what I want. Screw that! Lucid Dreaming is a natural capability, that no one can make illegal. Start attaching drugs to it and you lose control of it if someone decides to ban your substance.
I rather suspect that most drugs would interfere with this, a natural ability. Better to live a healthful lifestyle. Try the "drugs" of regular sleep, eating a balanced diet, regular exercise, etc, and you will do better.
I am all for legalizing all drugs to take the profit motive out it them; if people want to take drugs, they should be able to do whatever they want--so long as they are not driving. But I would never advise anybody to take "recreational" drugs for any reason; they are mostly destructive. Man hasn't evolved for millions of years to be one way only to have some chemist (or farmer) make or grow something that will improve the way we are: I do not trust the laboratory to make something safe for me to take unless it has been tested as long as we've been evolving. (I do make an exception for vaccines.)
So to answer your question, I'd avoid the drugs even if there were one which could help induce Lucid Dreams. That would be like riding a bike with training wheels: you could never ride without them; learn to ride without the training wheels. Don't depend on drugs for anything.
LOL, great description, spot on with my drunk dreams.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flo
A good thing to heed. Treat kratom with respect. Moderating a drug-related forum has shown me a lot of people start taking it since it's mainly legal, but have a very difficult time stopping.Quote:
Originally Posted by Narttram
I recently stopped using kratom for a week to make sure I wasn't getting too addicted and had withdrawal symptoms the whole time. Not fun.
I don't ever recall kava having much much impact on my dream life but I didn't experiment much with it, so perhaps I'll give it another try.
I have found that salvia divinorum has a big impact on dreams, creating more lucidity and recall, but I don't recommend people use the plant as it's extremely powerful and even seasoned acid-heads can have a very tough time with this plant. If an individual does feel inclined to try, I recommend a tincture or quid method as opposed to smoking as it's much more subtle, rather than tearing your reality and ego-sense apart like a bear ripping into some small fuzzy animal.
I have also frequently heard that Calea zacatechichi is good for enhancing dreaming.
Salvia did not give me particlarly better recall. I smoked almost half a gram of 20x. My experience was interesting and very worthwhile though. Everyone's body reacts differently to substances and no general rule can be made about anything. Calea has helped some people with lucid dreams to the point of being able to re-enter a lucid dream after being awake for a considerable amount of time, while it did nothing for others.
Kava kava in a pill form failed too to increase my dream recall but I too have heard that freshly ground roots contain significantly more of the active chemical. Some people report that kava kava effects are not felt the first few times of usage, similar to marijuana. Although that too, is subjective to your own body chemistry.
Salvia is one of the few drugs that I would say I can "recommend" I took a lot of different things, still do and won't regret but with salvia you can be sure it wont hurt you and you wont get addicted, although I did not experience any improve in my recall...
My experiences...
Marijuana - If i go to sleep high, no dream recall whatsoever. Earlier in the day does not have any effect.
Alcohol - strangely does not impair my recall. I had a couple lucids but very rare.
Caffein and other stimulants - I wouldn't recommend it, but I have experienced more vivid dreams and better recall.
I can tell you that smoking weed....
DRUGS ARE BAD
hahah
What about DXM? I've done it a few times and I would just lay there the whole time listening to music and day dream, but the day dreams were so vivid it was like dreaming when awake. Super imagination I guess you could say... I just day dreamed for about 2 hours before I eventually fell asleep, quiet peacefully I might add. It was so long ago I don't remember if i could recall my dreams or not from those experiences, I think I might try tonight!
I dont know much about DXM but do tell if anything interesting happens.
I wouldn't say marijuana kills recall but it definitely impairs it. I usually remember at least 2 dreams a night, but since stopping smoking pot like 4 days ago I've been remembering like 8+ dreams a night.
Odd I smoked a blunt last night about an a half an hour before I went to bed and I had about 4 seperate dreams I recall.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFantasy
So? Just one instance doesn't mean it doesn't impair your recall. I've had nights where I've had LDs or multiple dreams after smoking but for the most part it definitely impairs your recall. Studies have already showed this and I can link it if you want to question it. Just because you still have dreams, etc. doesn't mean that it isn't affecting it. I noticed a decrease in vividness, kind of a cloudy feeling, lower dream recall, etc. I usually remember entire dreams perfectly well but after I smoke I just remember frames (like I said in the majority of cases there can be exceptions and on instance you still have good LDs, etc.). He didn't say it STOPS dream recall, just inhibits it. I think its anything between 80-240mg.
Like I said, I have no inhibitions caused from smoking weed. I can LD the same when I smoke and when I don't. Studies have shown this, studies also show a lot of incorrect and confounded assumptions. I never have any problem remembering my dreams, and they've only been easier to remember since I started smoking pot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lusense
To each his own I guess. Maybe this is impaired recall is from occasional smokers and not chronic smokers?
Ya, it can vary from person to person but trust me I'm even beyond the terms of chronic smoker. Sure, your body adjusts and compensates but those effects are still there. It's easy to say stuff like that about studies but those kinds of things generally aren't true and only happen in some poor investigations (although I agree alot of studies on cannabis can be flawed). The thing is, sure your body adjusts and compensates as you build tolerance, but atleast in the vast majority of cases it WILL affect it. Sometimes, it can actually increase vividity and the like. Marijuana definitely depresses REM sleep and eye movement during sleep though, this is why almost all smokers notice a great increase in recall following quitting (for atleast a notable period) and why individuals notice great decreases in recall (majority again) following periods of heavy usage. It's just the short term effects of THC in your blood acting on your brain while your sleeping, it makes perfect sense that they would have an effect since it has direct influences on memory and all that. Like you said, to each his own and there is somewhat a lack of conclusiveness as with many THC studies, but interms of REM sleep there is quite a large body of evidence showing this.
Not to mention if you quit after being a heavy user one of the things you'll notice along with things like increase irritability and decreased appetite (I hate this) is increased REM sleep (once again you can argue that there are exceptions to this but the majority shows it).
Definitely I love the Dreams after I smoked everyday for 1-2 weeks and then suddenly stopped :) (sadly these effects disappear after 2 nights or so)
I'm far above a Chronic smoker myself, having stopped for short periods of my life I've found my dreaming is most unaffected by my pot smoking. I would say my dreams actually seem more lucid and vivid during Full Moons, being totally unaffected by Marijuana..Quote:
Originally Posted by Lusense
I would even say if any affect it would be the opposite of what you speak of, my time off Marijuana denotes less recall at least for me..
Ok, DXM, test number one... I did just as I described above. I layed there and day dreamed until I fell asleep. I had 4 dreams that I vividly remember, a bit more then I would on a sober night, then again the effects DXM have on people are completely different from one person to the next. My only advise is take the pills, only take the syrup if you have an iron stomach and like hangovers.
DXM increased my vividness a noticeable amount, but thats just me, if you have any questions about DXM just ask.
I find a combo of Salvia + Calea Zacatechichi does indeed make my dreams more vivid and more easy to recall. Although I agree with the general assumption that drugs only hurt your ability to dream lucidly. When I was using MJ daily I completely lost all dream recall, although I was aware that I was still having dreams, I just couldn't remember any of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Narttram
I saw your posts a few months back on the full moon and there is no scientific reason to believe that it has any effect on people's behavior besides a psychological one. Most likely just superstition and history constantly shows us people are all too easily swayed even when they are 100% sure they are right. If you believe in stuff like that it would also likely explain your skepticism on the subject but to each his own.
I don't believe it, I just know for the last few days I've had nothing but visual dreams.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lusense
Easily swayed or not, my dreams as of the last few days of the full moon cycle has made my dreams memorable.
I don't need a scientific reason to believe that my dreams are being affected, you can assume it's a psychological one but you have no proof.
Some people seem to be easily swayed by any "scientific" study, or really just over assumptions. Study in the area of dreams and the mind are very incomplete.
The person making the claim is the one that should be providing the evidence. Aka, if I say "there is a civilization of aliens living in the core of the earth and I can feel their presence" and someone says back "no... there is no reason to believe that" (not the best example but whatever) the person that says no is going to have alot of trouble disproving it since he can't go to the core of the earth and check (especially a person without access to extremely advanced scientific equipment :P). Yet, the person who made the claim that they existed or are affecting the other is the one who should be providing the evidence since HE made the claim. If that was the case, people could make whatever claim they wanted and just "assume" they are right. Claims need to be backgrounded in evidence, show me some.
Sure, the evidence can always grow greater, but if someone wants to believe a theory like lunar effects on sleep which has FAR less (if any) evidence than supression of REM sleep by marijuana, they are just being hippocritical. It's easy to make anecdotal claims which many people do (ie. ESP claims, etc.) or speak from "personal experience"; yet often people are misled, don't tell the truth, or there are other factors affecting it they don't realize (ie. psychological which play a role in MANY cases like the one you described). Although studies are sometimes flawed as you said or limited, they control for confounding variables and things at a farrrrrrrrrrrrrr greater degree than claims (ie. people who swear on everyone they are telling the truth and end up having lied, periods of time when all or the majority of the Earth 100% believed things later proved incorrect (I won't diss any current religions but take a look at ones from the past)). I can't disprove it because I don't have access to a laboratory, sufficient tools, and yourself to test out your claim; that doesn't mean it's impossible. It just seems more plausible that thinking the moon is having some change on your body is actually causing the change (placebo effects can lead to 30+% of physical effects for example even though they are just psychological) than some magical effect of the moon grounded in nothing and failing testing (however limited).
That's why people are "swayed" by scientific studies, I even knew you were going to try to say people get indoctrinated into science since that's an argument that is used all the time. People use similar arguments against some of the most well-developed and tested theories that have survived skepticism and anti-thesis over hundreds of years and have thousands+ studies supporting them (saying they are just "theories"). Btw, I have no problem with you just a friendly debate.
I understand but I'm only saying, theorizing and explaining what I've experienced. I don't claim it to be 100% accurate or to even affect everyone the same. Many animals live their cycles off of the moon and how it runs it course, why not people?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lusense
The problem with how things affect people is that everyone is affected differently. Just as one disease can affect someone completely different than another, one medicine could help someone while doing nothing to the other..
Everything is so subjective that it's hard to truly understand what is going on.
I actually didn't realize the moon was almost full until after my dreams started to be excessively vivid. I noticed when I walked outside at 5 AM and saw the giant bright baby there.
I know what you're saying but I've never even thought about the moon having an effect (besides the times I've read on it) and my sleeping patterns are really consistent. Like, regardless of what the moon is doing it can't be having an effect on me since I basically always take the same amount of time to sleep, dream about the same amount, and all that (unless I did something else that day like drank alot or stayed up late). So I don't see why it would vary based on a thing like that only to particular members of a species? The moon is likely just a rock that collided with the Earth through a Giant Impact (although there are refuting ideas). It really has no special significance besides small gravitational effects, tides, etc. on non-physical entities.
I could see the possibility of individual differences leading to some sort of change in individuals but since we are all the same species it would have to be rooted in a mutation, chromosomal division, or some other generational mutational change then. It's just that linking it to the moon is what's making me so skeptical; it just reminds me of astrology which ALWAYS fails any sort of reasoning, testing, or observation but people still seem to believe horoscopes o.O.
Even though I totally agree with your view on astrology (and am very sceptical to many concepts presented here that cant be proven) but many people I know feel they get more vivid dreams and unnatural sleep patterns during full moon (even my 8 year old brother complained once about dreams that seemed too real to be dreams without knowing it was full moon and definitely without having read up on it) so I think we cant completely discard it, especcially because so many things are bound to the moon (tides for example) which shows that he has a physical impact on earth.
i find that after a single session (a single joint only) with marijuanai am incapable of remember dreams, but this then knicks on to the next day and i ahve a realy vivid one then. dont worry im not a chronic smoker. i ahve also been drinking a lot of tea (4 cups a day) either green tea, or chamomile and i found taht my dream recall has increced, even on week days where i used to barely be able to remember anything, now i can remember teh dream i had this morning in some quite good detail.
anyone have any other teas worth trying give me a shout, i want to try some mugwurt tea, and dream herb tea, but dont know where i can buy either, also does anyone know if mugwurt is able to be cultivated in scotland?
hope my input was cool
DO A REALITY CHECK NOW!:D
The moon effects tides because of gravity as does the sun but to a smaller extent. There is no reason to have similar effects on biological functions though. The effects of tides are very easy to explain. There is no property of the moon that makes it have the stated effects on biology however. It's basically likely just a fairly primitive "rock" that broke off from the earth following a large impact. No special minerals, substances, or forces exist that would cause it to have any magical effect versus other bodies in the solar system.
Good post topic :)
I smoke the herb every now and again and if I do it right before bed my recall is done for and my dreams are less vivid, but If i smoke and then go to bed atleast 2 hours later I have perfect recall and very vivid dreams (like always)
If I take any kind of pain killers my dreams are always dull and I dont remember them
Drunk dreams are definitely crazy, recall is good, but Ive never gone lucid (too drunk i guess)
Finally, what about fungi?? I've taken shrooms a handful of times and when I go to sleep (after I've come down) my dreams are INSANE!! They are very cool, vivid but don't make sense, I wish I could go lucid after a trip, but like I said I only do it occassionally (not enough to practice with)
Anyone else have psycedellic dream experience????
I know, I always have strange and vivid dreams even after heavy drinking. Never been lucid in a drunk dream before though. It seems to me like alcohol would supress rem sleep.Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamingofdreaming
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lusense
Astrology fails reasoning and testing because people doing the testing probably have a half-assed idea of what its doing. And astrology only tells of what energy is present(way stars affect our enviroment) and what is likely.. Hard to test the uncertain. Horoscopes are different than straight astrology.. (Horoscopes is commercialized astrology..)
I don't think a mutation or anything is necessary for people to be affected differently, we all don't function the same. Yes the basic functions are usually the same, but everyone experiences things differently, enjoy different tastes, music etc... Maybe some of us are just more aware of something, or are more easily affected by certain things.
Those preferences are a combination of environment and genetics. Differences in taste are usually just because of differing experiences. Like if you grow up in the Orient you're more likely to like seafood and this and that. Or if you eat peppers alot you're more likely to like them. That's why if you eat a food you don't like you will eventually adapt a taste for it if you force yourself for long enough and why people in different areas of the world or different demographics have similar (not exactly since conditions vary from home to home) eating, music patterns, and stuff. That's different than having a biological predisposition. It needs to be implemented in the genes for something like that to exist even if it was possible, that's not arguable, Lamarckian ideas have long been refuted.
It's easy to make broad claims about science and not point to any specific studies which is what you're doing to try to refute alot of the points I make but in reality the majority of those studies are very reliable since they go through numerous peer reviews and are specifically intended to be disprovable. Astrology is not backgrounded in any sort of rational as are many other similar fields. Honestly, I've seen alot of the tests in those fields and regardless of the excuses people make they are FAR from not fair. People try to come up with excuses for them when making them any more "reasonable" would just be a completely flawed design. It just seems that in all these pseudoscientific topics atleast 99.9% of the people are clearly lying (lets refer this comment to any of these fields and not specifically astrology) so I wouldn't be surprised about the other "0.1%".
Also, that person that asked about psychedelics. I had a few dreams where I was tripping out on salvia in my dreams after having done it earlier haha. I know some of them can directly affect sleep and I've had some experience with that but I guess that depends on the psychedlic.
It's easy to write off what I say because I don't have any studies to show you but, we must always remember that everything hasn't always been discovered and understood.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lusense
I don't believe 99.9% of people who have psychic visions for instance is lying, I know for a fact that I'm not lying for instance. I know it's not a delusion, and I'm positive that it is a possible thing to be achieved. How or why on the other hand I am not sure.
Astrology has no rational that you understand is what you meant, just because you don't understand how it works or what it really is doesn't mean its nonsense. Studies done on astrology which I can't think of anything I'm sure were half-assed and attempted by those with no real knowledge or understanding of that subject.
Peer review has many of its own issues, such as the common occurrence of people seeing things how they want to. Peer review is better for the widely accepted, and widely studied.
How does anyone measure the subtle energies created by the planets and stars and how they affect us? And how do you set up a working experiment, it escapes me.