Unruly Kids

Seriously, WTF has happened to parenting, lately?

Once upon a time, when kids said or did something out of line, they got straightened the fuck out - real quick.

Now, parents are like: "Oh, you'll never guess what my 4 year old said the other day...hehehe. I told him to go pick up his toys and he was like 'Hell no! I dun wanna! YOU pick 'dem up!!' Hahaha. I just looked at him, like 'oh no he did not just say that.' Haha. These kids today, I swear. Lol."

That shit is NOT cute.

Today, I was leaving work, and there is this 'lil Spanish-owned barber shop a few doors down. 2 kids were outside playing with a ball. (The oldest couldn't have been more than 10, if that.) The ball rolls out into the parking lot, just as I'm walking by them, and the oldest boy goes to get it. When he gets the ball, he's almost hit by a car that was pulling out of the lot. The lady in the car hits the brakes and beeps the horn at the boy. The little boy screws up his face at her and says "Bitch!" and walks back to the other boy.

I seriously had to stop and ask myself if I heard him right.

There was a man posted up in a van, right beside them, who apparently knew the boys and might even have been their father. He says "Hey!" to the little boy (rather nonchalantly, actually), and says something in Spanish, too fast for me to understand. The little boy looks back at him and starts yelling at HIM, in Spanish, obviously defending himself for calling the lady a bitch. The only thing I was able to understand was when he said "Estupida (stupid)" and "Beep beep!", obviously calling the lady stupid for beeping her horn at him.

These kinds of things usually don't surprise me as much, but I was literally shocked. When I was walking up, the kids were just playing like normal, well-behaved boys (the youngest was maybe 6), and then out of nowhere that kid is just like "BITCH!"

Wow.
Just sad.

I know what you mean.

I was outside a Subway the other day waiting on my brother to get a sandwich, and there were these two boys inside playing with paper airplanes...pretty young, like 5-7? they were throwing them around inside and the place was pretty packed, I mean, huge line. it's in a gas station so pretty small. anyway, I just knew they were gonna hit someone with one and piss them off e_e
the mother...wasn't really doing anything
they went outside (more room?) and threw them around out there...and the mother (who looked like serious white trash) leaned out the door and said (well, yelled in a nasty tone), "get in here, what would you do if your ass got run over? >:("
uh, that surprised me. no mother should talk to her kids like that...maybe something like "you boys need to come inside, so you don't get run over, okay?"
they didn't seem particularly wild, just normal, energetic little boys. when their father pulled up she screamed at him "you need to get in here and take control of these goddamn kids."

I guess this isn't necessarily about misbehaving/rude children...but I think it sort of goes along as it's about shitty parenting. after she said that I thought, SHE'S not popping them out for welfare checks, no sir. :(
I felt sorry for the boys. god knows how they'll come out, with nasty parents like that.

I do know what you mean about out of control kids; this is the only thing that's happened recently that relates at all e_e

I mostly avoid them

I hate stupid kids.

The other day was the Tom's awareness or something so kids didn't wear shoes to school. The administration told them to put their shoes on but they refused and were acting like they are the coolest kids for telling someone no. Those kids got suspended. It's too bad they never stepped on a needle and caught something, that'll teach em. Well I guess not, I don't want anyone getting a deadly disease.

Some kids just won't learn unless something actually happens to them.

I know it's mean, but sometimes things do need to happen to these kids so they'll learn.

Don't blame the kids, blame the 80's parents who don't want to be like their own parents. I think this kinda behavior will fade in and out, like a sine wave.

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Originally Posted by The Invisible Man

Don't blame the kids, blame the 80's parents who don't want to be like their own parents. I think this kinda behavior will fade in and out, like a sine wave.

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my parents don't want to be like their parents, they aren't. They still do care on how we act and raised us well.

Of course, the day that kids behaved was the day that EFFECTIVE punishment was not frowned upon. My younger siblings love their mom and dad, and would never dare to speak like that.

(@ hellohihello): Sorry, that was an unfair generalization. Of course they have the same objective, but is their different method a proper path to that objective?

Yeah, I'm really talking about parenting. Not necessarily blaming the kids. The kids are the product of bad parenting.

And yeah, nerve, I get sick of hearing parents that cuss to/around their kids, as if they don't expect the children to copy what they see.

Ever been in a restaurant and the little bastard two tables over is screaming his fucking head off, yet the parents sit idly by and do NOTHING about it?

Far too often...

And don't even get me started on movie theaters. =/

I'm only young myself, but I've noticed this as well. Kids are more spoiled now, they get away with anything, and parents don't do shit. I see all the younger kids in my neighbourhood running around, breaking shit, doing stupid things, fighting with adults, even picking fights with older kids, and nobody ever does anything to discipline them. Occasionally a parent will come about, and say "Hey, that's it, you're grounded!". Two hours later, the kids back out on the street after they threw a little hissy fit and the parents either didn't want to put up with them anymore, or didn't have the balls to see through their punishment.

Now, I don't condone beating your kids, but I think spankings should still be fine. When I was young, I did something stupid and my dad grabbed me, spanked me, tossed me in my room crying and left me there. At the time, it was devestating, but now I look back and I think "Damn, I really deserved that. I'm glad he did that, because that really taught me a lesson." I never acted out like that again, and I learned how to not be a spoiled little brat after that.

I honestly don't know if it's that the parents are scared to punish their kids now, because of all the social stigmas surrounding it now, and how the kids can just threaten to call like child services or something, or if they're just lazy and don't want to have to deal with their kids. Everything is becoming faster and easier in our world, our food can cook in three minutes in the microwave, in ten seconds we can download a song, in two seconds we can get an answer from google for virtually any question you want answered.... I'm curious as to whether or not this has an effect on the way people parent their children, or if it's just the way that society is going that now people are afraid to punish their children.

All I know, is that it drives me crazy. I'm ninenteen years old, and I've had like twelve year olds try to pick fights with me because they just have no fear and no respect for anyone but themselves. I remember when I was growing up, nobody even THOUGHT about messing with an older kid, everybody I knew avoided teenagers like the plague because we knew they could beat the shit out of us if they wanted to. Now kids just don't care. I plan to discipline my kids, because I want them to grow up with a sense of respect for others, and a sense of consequence for their actions.

I swear, hitting kids need to start back up. I am a 16 yr old male and I believe half the kids at my school should get the shit beaten out of them for being disrespectful to adults and doing stupid things.

Parents nowdays suck. Not all, but many. Too lenient IMO.

@ hockey833: Amen lol.

It's the internet that's to blame.

It's a cunting bad influence.

I don't think effective parenting lies in punishments. The reason a lot of children get to be so wild in the first place is because of neglect. You can also reward children for doing "the right thing" and get desired responses out of them over time. I never had to be punished by my parents, and I hold them in the highest respect. They were always there, so I had no reason to feel as if I got too little attention or the feeling that no one gave a damn about me.

The answer of course is love for the child. Not beating them.
Although, there may be lines that get crossed by the children that I'm not terribly familiar with.

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Originally Posted by hellohihello

The other day was the Tom's awareness or something so kids didn't wear shoes to school. The administration told them to put their shoes on but they refused and were acting like they are the coolest kids for telling someone no. Those kids got suspended. It's too bad they never stepped on a needle and caught something, that'll teach em. Well I guess not, I don't want anyone getting a deadly disease.

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Dude, going around barefoot really isn't that big a deal. I do it quite often. I'd have protested at the administration butting in too.

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Originally Posted by Invader

I don't think effective parenting lies in punishments. The reason a lot of children get to be so wild in the first place is because of neglect. You can also reward children for doing "the right thing" and get desired responses out of them over time. I never had to be punished by my parents, and I hold them in the highest respect.

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Yeah, exactly. It is quite possible to raise decent children without striking them, slapping them, grounding them or placing them in timeout even once.

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Originally Posted by Invader

I don't think effective parenting lies in punishments. The reason a lot of children get to be so wild in the first place is because of neglect. You can also reward children for doing "the right thing" and get desired responses out of them over time. I never had to be punished by my parents, and I hold them in the highest respect. They were always there, so I had no reason to feel as if I got too little attention or the feeling that no one gave a damn about me.

The answer of course is love for the child. Not beating them.
Although, there may be lines that get crossed by the children that I'm not terribly familiar with.

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Originally Posted by khh

Dude, going around barefoot really isn't that big a deal. I do it quite often. I'd have protested at the administration butting in too.


Yeah, exactly. It is quite possible to raise decent children without striking them, slapping them, grounding them or placing them in timeout even once.

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I agree. My daughter is 9 years old, is a moderately respectful kid who is on the honor roll at school (and I'm not bragging. It's just relevant), but I haven't spanked her since I don't know when. And even then, it was young enough to where it was just a pop or two. She'd never received one of the full-blown ass-whoopings that I used to get. It's really just not necessary.

I believe the best punishments are psychological, and should be dished out with the tempered tone of a teacher (when at all possible. Sometimes getting loud is more appropriate, depending on the offense). Kids don't need to be talked down to. They respect you more when they aren't, even when you are disciplining them. Taking away privileges is usually enough to get a child to understand a sense of "if I do this, that will happen", without striking them or belittling them / screaming obscenities at them, which are often more physically/emotionally damaging. The only thing is that it takes time and effort, from the parent, to learn how to moderate their kids, without taking it to that level.

And, let's face it, some parents are just not that driven...

The way parents act themselves, is a huge part to play in it. Of course discipline and stuff is important too. But when a child is young, they will see the way the parent acts, and see it as the right thing to do. Unless the parent says something like "see this scar, yea, you don't want this. So you should never..." and whatever. Something along those lines. Especially with something like smoking, or violence.


If a parent acts in a good, proper way (And points out faults and gives reasons why they are bad), then they might have a shot at having a respectful teenager in the later years. Although, of course, most teens go through a stage of total disrespect. And this is just through naivity. It's just how long it lasts, is the worry.

I was talking to my nephew the other day (11yrs) and i said to him.. " hey dude what did u get your dad for his birthday?" his response... " sweet f.a! hes my dad i dont have to buy him gifts i didnt ask him to have me"
i said(teasingly) " i didnt ask for a nephew so no gift for u? cool"
suddenly he wasnt so cool and nonchalant :)

anyway.. if i had said "sweet f.a" or acted so ungratful for all i had at his age.. i would have regretted it. Infact if my nephew had said that infront of my parents ( his granparents) he would have too.

parents need to shape up.. or stop having kids.

In some cases..the old fashioned way is the better way, child discipline is a shining example.

we didnt need a naughty step when i was a kid, my parents demanded respect and they got it. if they can.. anyone can.

So, what should we expect of the next generation (my generation :P ) of parents?

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Originally Posted by lordyM

Ever been in a restaurant and the little bastard two tables over is screaming his fucking head off, yet the parents sit idly by and do NOTHING about it?

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Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Far too often...

And don't even get me started on movie theaters. =/

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Heh. First thing that came to mine. At the movie theatre the other day, there was a lady with a a few kids ahead of me, and a few kids behind me with parents. Both of them talked the whole time. And what really got to me was the fact that their parents didn't tell them to shutup. They didn't say anything. Maybe a few ssh's in the beginning, but after a bit they were on free reign. I had to personally tell both of them to shutup (just loud sssh's), not that it mattered. Their parents actually had the nerve to look at me like I was doing something wrong.

I don't think any kind of physical hitting needs to be involved. There are plenty of other methods..reinforcement/punishment. But not the physical kind.

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Originally Posted by Invader

I don't think effective parenting lies in punishments. The reason a lot of children get to be so wild in the first place is because of neglect. You can also reward children for doing "the right thing" and get desired responses out of them over time.

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There are huge problems with this.

First off, no. Successful parenting does not lie in punishment - but it's a big factor. Punishing children is not only a way to punish their actions, it's for later on.

First, let's talk about the "rewards method". The rewards method teaches kids that doing something right brings a reward. This is a big mistake. Kids grow up with the mindset of "What's in it for me?" I've seen the results of the rewards method. Oh sure, you have good kids for a while - until you have nothing left to give them. then they start screaming, and acting up.

Kids should be taught to do right always. Regardless of the consequences, good or bad. When punishing, kids get the mindset that, when I do something bad, something bad will happen. And, while not always true, more often than not, it is.

Punishment lasts. It isn't pleasant spanked when running into the street the second time around - but it's much less pleasant to get hit by a car the third time around.

I will say that lack of punishment IS neglect. Punishment, REAL punishment, is because of love, not neglect. You don't punish out of anger (that is my definition of abuse), you punish because you love your child and don't want to see them hurt themselves.

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Originally Posted by xox

I don't think any kind of physical hitting needs to be involved. There are plenty of other methods..reinforcement/punishment. But not the physical kind.

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There ARE other methods, but none that work a fourth as well as a good spanking. I have five younger siblings, I know what I'm talking about. All the timeout nonsense does is make a kid mad. They sit in a corner for ten minutes, or more depending on how they react, and forget about it, and the process is repeated. They can ultimately end up spending hours in a corner. The same thing could be resolved with a five second spanking, a thirty second lecture, and a ten second hug.

This has been discussed before here. I remember someone making the point that, the method of punishment that works for people is highly dependent on the child. All children react differently to different form of punishment. it's up to the parent to spend time finding out how. And, if they don't have the time/want to spend it, they probably shouldn't have had kids.

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...and a ten second hug.

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I think after 3 seconds or so, it is no longer a hug, but an embrace.

sorry I just read that and thought...damn. that's a long-ass hug.

Okay, embrace then. And, depending on how the kid feels, it could be shorter or longer.

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Originally Posted by Noogah

The rewards method teaches kids that doing something right brings a reward. This is a big mistake. Kids grow up with the mindset of "What's in it for me?" I've seen the results of the rewards method. Oh sure, you have good kids for a while - until you have nothing left to give them.

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Rewards come in more than the material variety. Affection and quality time are renewable. They do not run out.

Anyways, this method should not have to be employed for very long. A child in early stages of development is motivated by consequences and rewards. They later learn to make decisions based on whether or not something is against the rules, whether those be laws or flexible social rules. When they progress into early adulthood and beyond they should be motivated by their perceptions of right and wrong. If it's made clear to them in the very beginning that there are affectionate people who care about them and will be there for them, the developing human being will not have sufficient reason to go around misbehaving. There is a mix of guilty feelings when considering "wrong" actions and a desire to make proud those who love them.

Physical punishment only becomes necessary for those who've already messed up somewhere, or are too lazy, and so on. Physical punishment however is not always indicative of bad parenting. Like you said, Noogah, there are parents who think punishment is correct and do it out of love, not anger. I am saying that punishment is just not necessary if child rearing is done """correctly""".

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Originally Posted by Invader

I am saying that punishment is just not necessary if child rearing is done """correctly""".

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It is in fact even illegal in many countries.

I see you're a fan of Kohlberg Invade. :D

Anyway, it lies within child rearing. Look up the different kinds, particularly authoritative.

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There ARE other methods, but none that work a fourth as well as a good spanking.

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In terms of efficiency, I'm sure spanking works the best. In my experience however, spanking leads to hatred and bitterness, while simple time outs do not. Time outs are a terrible example. They hardly accomplish anything. If the kid does something wrong, take away privileges (again, negative punishment). Don't make them sit in a corner, that is pointless. I happen to have 4 siblings, fairly close in age. I know what I'm talking about too. I was hardly ever spanked as a child, and I turned out fine. The odd time that I was though, only feelings of serious resentment and bitterness rose within me. Not any kind of desire to undo the wrong. I remember thinking to myself, this is not the right way to do things. This will not change anything. I didn't understand the point. I explained this to my parents, and I even told them they should try more western (:P) methods of punishment. Like taking away the TV for a month. Whatever. Slapping me on the face did nothing. My little brother, who grew up to be somewhat of a sadistic psycho, was spanked. Not seriously or anything, but certainly on the occasion he did something seriously wrong. Which happened often. I've tried really hard to convince my parents to take away his PS3 or TV, but they do not listen. I truly think had they taken his N64/bike away for a bit when he was young, his behaviour wouldn't be so extreme. But they didn't, they chose instead to spank him. Which only made him develop a hate for them.

Anyway, that's just a personal example. Another thing to note is what spanking means. Nudging someone on the face isn't, slapping hard is, slapping shoulder isn't, hitting shoulder with hanger is. IMO.

I feel like I need to point out that this is exactly like we should be talking.
Something would be wrong with humananities continuity, if we weren't
complaining about how disrespectful children have gotten, people have
been doing this for ages.

And something differently related I observed recently:
One of these (also rather young) mothers was shopping with her daughter.
And the way she talked you could say was the equivalent to white trash. But
when that little girl answered her, she was speaking absolute ideal german
for that age (3-4) and was sounding way more sophisticated than her mother.
It sounded funny when they talked. So yea, kids aren't neccessarily their parents.

Unfortunately, I've seen the same bullshit going on with the kiddies living in the apartment adjacent to my downstairs neighbors. The youngest of the kids, who's a really, really tiny little tyke - doesn't look any older than four years old - I've heard time and time again spouting off F-bombs like nobody's business.

...Of course, I'm at least 98% certain the kid's mother is a goddamn coke fiend, so go figure...

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Originally Posted by Xox

I don't think any kind of physical hitting needs to be involved. There are plenty of other methods..reinforcement/punishment. But not the physical kind.

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Originally Posted by Xox

In my experience however, spanking leads to hatred and bitterness, while simple time outs do not. ...But they didn't, they chose instead to spank him. Which only made him develop a hate for them.

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I'm sure that's your experience, but the resentment that physical punishment breeds is purely temporary, depending on what kind of person you are. If you're one to easily forgive others, it won't scar you in any way. If you're one to hold grudges...well, good luck with your therapy, since I believe that unforgiving pricks are well worthy of receiving psychological trauma. No offense to any grudgy people 'round here.

Take this from a guy who used to be spanked quite a bit by his father...hell, even punched in the stomach, flung clear across the room and spanked on the dick with a leather belt with metallic lining. (Okay, so that last one was my own fault, since I thought I'd be crafty and try to "dodge" my dad's wrath. Backfired horribly.)

Despite all that, I turned out to be fairly normal, and by no means do I hate my dad for the physical punishment he inflicted upon me. Looking back on it, I was quite the selfish little shit, and probably deserved most of what I got. Truth be told, I would have jumped at the chance to be spanked, given the alternative that was my timeout; hearing my parents snap "grab your ankles!" was my worst nightmare. That basically consisted of me standing, bending over and grabbing hold of my ankles...and not being allowed out of that position for at least a half an hour. At least. It was miserable, let me tell you.

That reminds me of a situation I had with my last apartment's neighbours.

The parents were drunk off their ass and yelling at each other the entire time.
And they dragged their fight not even only into the hallway, but onto the street
and involved other people. Her clothing was half ripped off and they smelled
like alcohol so bad that they had to be drinking for at least a few days straight.
The sad part is that there was a little kid involved, maybe around the age of
three and he looked really frightened and scared.

The cops came after a while, but said that they were already 'well known'
and there wasn't really much they could do, since that woman would be
returning to her abusive husband rather sooner than later anyway.

Regardless of how effective. Which is. Debatable.

Any state that allows a parent to physically harm their children. To any extent. Is flawed all over.

You're advocating violence in order to teach that things like violence are wrong. It's retarded all over.

Plus Noogah is some kind of Christian. Clear bad parenting right there.

I agree that physical punishment shouldn't need to be employed very long. I was spanked as a kid. I am glad of it and even as a kid I didn't think of it as violence. Violence is more something done out of anger to inflict pain.

I wasn't spanked, oh, not even when I was ten, I think. It only ever a handful of times that I remember, even earlier. But it never really hurt. I mean, it hurt enough to where it was uncomfortable. But hurting me wasn't the point of it or even a real effect.

At a young age, it was just the clearest way to get across displeasure and dissapointment. I'm two. I reach for something I know my parents don't want me to touch. They lightly pop my hand. It doesn't feel good and I know they aren't going to allow me to continue whatever I was doing. The same principle applies at age 5, 6, etc. just on a different scale. Eventually, though, it lost effectiveness.

It reinforced habits/morals. Taught things to me at a young age. It's encouraged in the Old Law. I plan to implement it if/when neccessary.

Then again, my parents are very reasonable people who could control their temper. Not everyone is so lucky. I could see where it could be a very poor thing when done in anger.

I'm opposed to physical punishment as well...

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Originally Posted by Siиdяed

Plus Noogah is some kind of Christian. Clear bad parenting right there.

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Stereotyping, are we?

In fact, my parents "parented" me quiet well. And although they still "parent" me, they no longer spank me, because I am mature enough now to know better, because they were smart enough to train me early.

....oh yeah, and I love them, and am not bitter.

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Originally Posted by shinta66

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I hope that was staged. I'm not surprised if it isn't.

I could as easily say that he wouldn't have acted up like this, if he had not had
been mistreated when he was younger and could not have defended himself.

My point is that this tells us nothing about how he was raised.

and it's very likely that it was staged

Just sad, yes.

My friend who is the middle child, has this brother that swears now and then...but, her parents definitly don't care as much as to when she said a swear word when SHE was 8. Probably, part of that is just that he's the 3rd child...so, really, they get relaxed rules (lucky, I'm the oldest :P).

Not exactly to the extent you're talking about, but...yeah...