Galantamine Insomia Help Question (Serious)

Hello:

I have a question about Galantamine. I purchased some online that’s pure which also has Choline. Now mind you I’m not new to Lucid Dreaming or the Astral Projection area. So this isn't a newbie on the topic poster even though I just registered to this site. I’ve been studying deep metaphysics and occultism since I was a junior in high school in my teens and Im now in my mid-30s. I first learn about OBEs and Lucid Dreams back when I was like six years old when I started reading my mom’s articles about the subject in those metaphysic newspaper and those old "Time Life: Mysteries of the Unkown" books she collected back in 1988. One dealt with Lucid Dreaming/Astral Projection. Ive Been studying and following metaphysics ever since. I look at this stuff as like mastering a serious art than a fun game of trying to lucid out to have sex or to mess with your mind for fun.

I can Lucid Dream if I put a heck of a lot of mental effort into throughout the day but it wipes me out and its a hit or miss thing. But like most of us here, my dreams are unconscious like us all. I have a theater style photo genetic memory (I can remember stuff people tell me for days or weeks, and memorize a paper with writing on it just by looking at it a few times), and recall most of my dreams in almost full color detail when I wake up. Usually I have several dreams in a night…sometimes one or two long ones with full detail after I wake up. Recalling my dreams…never been my problem lol.

My issue is with the G + C is as follows. I bought it last week, I tried it, and I did lucid very intensely and had full control of my dream. Whether I actually LD or AP I don’t know because the lady in my dream stated I wasn't Lucid when I said she was a DC, I was above Lucid, and she said I didn't belong here on this plane which look like a big park with people walking aorund, and shot me back into unconsciousness (I woke up).

However…it was not after three hours of falling back to sleep after taking G+C having taken it at 3AM and not falling back to sleep into 7AM. I tried it three times. All three times it takes three hours or more for me to go back to sleep…and by that time forget it. The third time I tried taking it before I went to sleep because I usually can control myself into sleep by doing image exercises and stuff and fall right out in fifteen minutes or wander in the darkness of my mind. I can sometimes control the type of dream I want before I fall asleep (but not lucid…unconscious). I fall aslepe fast too usually. If I go to bed at 11PM...Im out cold by 11:30. Anyhow this time I took the G+C at 11:30PM and didn’t fall asleep into 6AM. Yep...6AM. I only did this as a test to see if can trance myself into sleep fast before the G+C took affect. But it seems G+C is like super fast in reaching the brain…almost instant because within fifteen minutes I felt wide awake buzzy. I was up all morning and not only that I was super off the wall hyper (like I could of gone outside and played a hard good game of Basketball for two hours) while up like I feeling like I had drank ten cups of black coffee and a weird buzzy/vibration feeling. I might of fell asleep shortly for a few minutes on/off between that time nothing. I tell ya…if Galantamine is good for anything…its keep ya up and full awareness.

I still have 57 pills left. Going to detocx out (allow it all to wash out of me) so I won’t try it again into end of week…if I do it again. I can understand it just not working like if I took the pill, fell asleep, and nothing happen. That’s fine. Herbs and Vietnams don’t work on all people. Are brains are like our bodies…all are different and some things work for some while other things do not. But not falling asleep with insomnia is different because it invalids me from even trying to experiment with this stuff during sleep (and no I dont take any other drugs or herbs. I dont even smoke). I was wondering if anyone has any advice on this before I totally abandon G+C. Such as something else that can be taken with the G+C that will put be or knock me right back to sleep or help me overcome the insomia stage into I get use to G. So when I take it…I can fall right back to sleep without the insomnia or hyper “I just drank ten cups of black coffee” feeling…and even experiment taking it before bed (Yes I know…some say you shouldn’t but It’s for self experiments on myself ). The G I’m using is not from the snowdrop plant like Galamind, but from the Spider Red Lilly plant “Lycoris Radiata”. Anyhow information would be helpful. The goal is simply to take this thing…and call back to sleep right away whether it really works or not. And yes…I do keep a dream journal.

Thanks,
Ace

Don't abandon it yet! If you're going to throw them out, send them to me!!

When I started taking Galatamine, I had the same thing. My first few experiences kept me up for 3 to 4 hours at a time. I know you were just experimenting and have now learned your lesson, but don't take this before bedtime. Even if you got to sleep, it would not have been a restful sleep. I believe I remember reading in Thomas Yuschak's book that Galantamine encourages REM sleep. This is not the type of sleep you want early in the night. You want deep sleep early and most of the REM is left for later on.

My question for you (if you explained it already I missed it) is how are you taking the Galantmind? How much are you taking? How much sleep are you getting before hand? How long are you staying up before going back to sleep? Getting this right takes a lot of trial and error. I found that if I get up too early, I fall back to sleep too deeply and miss my REM. If I stay up too long, I have trouble falling back to sleep. In my case, my best chances seem to be if I sleep for 6 hours, get up to take the dog out (about 10 minutes) then down some pills and right back to sleep. I often wake up an hour later with some buzzing in my head. I know it's working and fall back to sleep hoping for DILD. I take 8mg Galantamine now, but I had to start with 4mg and even then had insomnia.

My advice for you is to invest in some L-Theanine. It helps quiet your mind, but it will not knock you out. I still had insomnia when taking 200mg along with the Galantamine so it may not entirely do the trick for you. I started looking into other ways to help me relax. Lemon Balm (Melissa) is a nice choice as a natual sleep aid. I would mess around with both of those to see if it works for you. I tried Passion Flower, but it actually seemed to surpress my dreams and dropped my success rate significantly (you may fare better). I also tried Hops, but saw no benefit. I'm slighly tolerant to Galantamine now, but I still take 200-300mg L-Theanine and I can get right back to sleep fairly easily. Thomas Yuschak also recommends a small amount of melatonin if you have trouble falling back to sleep. When he says small amount, I believe he's talking like 0.3 to 0.5 mg. So you'd need to cut up a pill fairly small. I did this in the beginning and it did help me.

In Summary. To help you sleep after taking Galantamine:

200-300mg L-Theanine - I always use this
0.3-0.5mg Melatonin - Recommended by Thomas Yoschak (I used for a while)
500-1000mg Melissa - Extra sleep aid that doesn't affect dreaming (I sometimes still use)
Hops - Apparently helps with relaxation, but did nothing for me
Passion Flower - Apparently helps with relaxation, but decreased my dreaming

Oh no. Im not going to abandon them hehe. I paid for the bottle and might as well use them. Trial and error like with any herb or vitamins. I was thinking about ditching them…but Ill keep try it esp since they’re natural lilly red tree plant herbs no different than green tea or vitamins so its not like its taking some odd LSD drug or Asprin drug that’s going to tear my body up in years to come if I use it. I’m taking a break into next week from the G and C too allow all the rest to flush out. I concluded I need too up my Choline a bit. 200MG is not enough. I need at least 400MG which I use Natures Way 500MG Choline tablet (and only Choline in the tablet). I want to keep my G at 4MG right now so not to build an easier tolerance to it, and also because for $32 for 60 pills I don’t want to keep wasting two at a time when one will do. I wish they came in 6MG though and I could get them at the local V store being Im in the USA. Our local V store has every herb or viteman (and a lot of other useless junk like sex advancer pills) under the sun but not Galantamine argh. I’m using the pure 96-100 percent pure Galanatime without anything else mixed in it. I also just bought last night 200 tablet 3MG bottle of pure Melatonin (without B6 because I heard taking B6 can go either way of enhancing or killing a LD) to help aid myself back to sleep which I’ll take before bed. Cut it down too 1.5MG maybe. Yeah…I don’t want to really get too started with Melatonin and prefer to keep it mininumal. I’m not a medicine taker at all, and only take vitamins or herbs so with this stuff like Choline, Galantamine, and Melatonin is all I really want to use. I only use the pure brand that doesn’t have a lot of fillers mixed in and only use it two-three times in a seven day period (if that) the most. Im new using Galantamine, but not new too the whole Lucid Dreaming thing like I said.
Yes about before bed is true on what you said. I just did it as a test. I knew something like what happened might happened. In fact I logged it into my journal before taking it that I might end up regretting it come morning from what I read by people that done it lol. I didn’t have any work that day so just tried it. One good thing about that was I got to see and feel the effects on me from a waking state. You can feel the Galantamine flow through you…the buzzy/vibration feeling. A sense of hyperness, awareness, and not being able to sleep and vividness. It was frustrating at first not getting sleep, but now it was an interesting experiment because I saw that these herbs do work…there’s something going on with them, and they’re not capsules with salt in them and its only in my mind they’re working. Actual plant herb. Funny thing is…I was not tired all day. I got one hour of sleep if that lol, but was not tired during the day. I felt very awake/alert. But you’re right. I do not recommend taking these supplements before bed. Also I do not drink any coffee (although I only drink a little if I drink it at all) on the day/night I plan on taking the G+C.

I lucid dreamt this past night though a few times and had a few false awakenings. I didn’t use G&C though tonight. I used the standard methods of reality checks and singing to myself “I will Lucid Dream” tonight. Like I said…im not new to this area…just new to taking the herbs stuff. I recorded it in my journal. Funny thing is I said out loud in my dream “I feel like Mickey Mouse from Thru the Mirror”. If you never heard of that short cartoon look it up on youtube as Thru/Through the Mirror - Walt Disney or Mickey Mouse. Its about Lucid Dreaming or Astral Projection where Mickey Mouse after reading Alice in Wonderland (the author wrote that book based on his Lucid Dream) wakes up out of body and see his body, than goes through a glass mirror to see his apartment from a different reality.

Okay. I take 4MG of G, and 200MG of Choline. Im going to up the Choline like I said in the above paragraph, because I think I need at least 400 but no more than that. I never have trouble remembering my dreams…that’s never been a problem for me honestly. Every m morning I wake up I can recall at least two of my dreams if not more, and in full vividness. I have a lot of downsides lol…but my memory has always been super gold ever since I was a kid. I could read something once and have it memorized. I go to bed around 11PM…10:30PM. If I go to bed later or I’m too tired I skip any try at Lucid Dreaming effort (no matter if Im trying G&C or not, and just let myself sleep which it seems is when I LD the most lol). Ive been waking up about four hours later…and taking the capsules and try and fall back to sleep right away but it seems to beat me to the punch. I learned now they kick in like within 20 minutes where I was under the impresson they were like other herbs or stuff where it could take an hour or two. And it kicks in fast and hard these Galanatamines. Looking back now I think I fell asleep easier on my first G&C try even though it took about two hours is because I took AsprinPM around 6PM because I had a little headache (I almost never take aspirin…but this time I did) so I think that helped. I do not recommend anyone at all taking any supplements like that for LD practice though. I believe in keeping it pure and using the herbs/vitamins only. Maybe add a banana in but thats it. B6/12 I don't know. I heard negative and positive stuff about it. I’m going to play around later on with getting up and times. Im not use to that. Im use to going to bed and sleeping the whole night nad LDing or not..sometimes getting up for water during the night. If I do those regular non-herbal LD I can LD but it takes a lot out of me doing those exercises.
Anyhow thanks for your response. Your advice is very sound, and yep, going to try Melatonine in a very light dose. I don’t want to take more than maybe G+C and maybe M if needed…I don’t want to start taking sixty different supplements and all this stuff working on my brain at once. Just like with regular Vietnams no need to take ten different forms of Vitamin D or A when one or two will be fine. I want to keep the supplements pure and natural herbs/vitamins. Like any other Vietnam I guess its getting the right dose, combo, and time to take it. And only taking it every two or three days the most for it doesn’t build a tolerance in your system (which even some regular herbs and vitamins can do like people that take too much Vitamin B can build up a tolerance to it that it doesn’t work).

I wonder though if used as directed. Two a week…maybe three…if the body eventually builds up a tolerance to the G&C. I read some people that have been taking it for years without any problem if you give your body time to flush out. Curious to see if an yone here that has been using it for long periods of time has had any warring affects as time permits (like a few months/years). I also wonder if there is any difference in how Galatamine works by which plant it comes from. Such as the G that comes out of the snowdrop plan is any different or stronger than say from the Lilly Red Spider Plant. My G is from the Lilly Plant. Ive seen the other brands come from the snowdrop plant.

Thanks again.

I can't say much about the G/C tolerance. I've been taking it for a few months, but only about once a week (sometimes I skip a week if I'm busy). It still works for me as well as it did in the beginning. I plan to buy another bottle when I'm done with this one because I am in love with the stuff. I always look forward to my weekend mornings!

You are right when you say it starts fast, so if you don't get to sleep quickly, you can be in trouble. I've read that it initially kicks in after 15-20min, then peaks at 1 hour, and is just about worn off after 3 hours. My experience and yours seem to follow that theory.

Sticking with Melatonin is not a bad idea. It is something that your body naturally makes and many people say it is good for you. The other sleep aids I mentioned are also natural substances. L-Theanine is an amino acid that is commonly found in green tea. Depending on how much weight you put in Wikipedia's believeability, it also has some benefits to your immune system. I have yet to hear or read of any negative side effects.

My experience with B6 has been up and down. If I take too much, my mind races when I try to sleep and I tend to wake up every hour. I find that if I take a relatively small amount (50mg) with some Melatonin, then my dreams tend to be more vivid than normal. You may be able to handle more than I can. I don't drink any caffine during the day because it keeps me up at night so I'm fairly sensitive to substances that can wake you up.

So definitely keep experimenting. Mess around with your choline amounts and what times you wake up to take your pills to see what works best for you. If the Melatonin doesn't do the trick in getting you back to sleep, I strongly recommend combining it with L-Theanine. Of course it's your body and you can do whatever you want with it.

One last note about not getting back to sleep. You may be just getting too excited. This was definitely my problem initially. I would lay down and wait to be transported to some amazing fantasy world where all my "dreams" would come true. That was just too overwhelming for me. The supplements help calm me down, but also trying not to think about what you are about to do can help a lot.

Best of luck to you!

Yes same. I only plan on taking it twice a week or so. Im off it again into next week to flush it out (like any herb or Vietnam). I remember my doctor saying the same with Vietnams like VA. If you take it all the time, everyday, and more than you need you’ll eventually built up a tolerance against it and just be urinating out. So Galatamine is I guess like any other safe natural plant herb (like Green Tea for example). Why I don’t mind taking it. I can Lucid without it with an effort or at least vivid dream. But Ive always taken Lucid/Astral as a metaphysical serious art though. I believe one can do it or at least try if they put a lot of research, effort, and seriousness into it. Like learning how to draw or paint or act or even crafts.

Yes. Im going to try the Melatonin. I ordered it on Amazon because it was cheap and I got it straight from the company (Nature Plus or something). They had it here in the stores by the regular everyday brands, but they all came with B6 mixed in for some reason. I wanted it pure just Melatonin with nothing else in it. Same as with Galatamine. Only taking it with the G if need be to help with the sleep thing when I take G. I read that the 200 choline in some of the products is not enough. You need at least 400min/max. So Ill do that too. I wont go above 4G right now. Dreamamins has Pro-G, Lucid Dreamer, and Dreamscape. I go with Pro-Gatalatime because its just pure around 98 percent Gatalatime with nothing in it. I talked with the guy personally through email (mainly because when I bought it I told him I want one with a 2014 or more expiration date or Im sending it back lol. I’ve seen stores try to sell Vietnams that are do too expire in six months…and it doesn’t pay to buy 60 capsules of something if its going to expire in six months. I got one I believe is a Dec 2014 date). Anyhow he said it was pure. I just can't figure out yet what the difference if any between the G that comes from Red Lilly Spider PLant or the Snowdrop plant. Galatamind has their G from the snowdrop while the Dreamin one gets theres from the Red Lilly. I bought the Choline (I think it was the Walgreens brand or something) separate for like $6.00. So it’s good. The Dreamscape one just has Melatonine in it which one can get separate, and the Lucid Dreamer one has the Choline in it…but I rather just have the Pro-G so I cane add in what I want…or take the Pro-G without anything else if I want just vivid dreams without the lucid or if Im looking to stay alert for the day since I read it can be used stand alone for memory awareness through the day. Galatamind had way too much stuff in their product including B6. There was another brand I saw from “Brillian Dreams.” But they were a little high in price and had M and C mixed in with the G.

Yeah…Im skipping the B6/B12 stuff. I heard mix stuff on it and from what I read taking too much B6 (or B12..I cant remember) can have an affect on the nerve system (who knows if thats true or not. Just what I read). I get enough B viteman anyhow through the day from my regular foods. B6 can keep you up. I noticed I see it a lot in those energy drinks. I want to stay as natural and limited as possible. I don’t want to start messing with like ten different herbs or these ever changing combinations lol. Two or three is enough to help twice a week or so. I don’t smoke or drink and like you don’t really drink coffee…so if it’s not natural or natural herbs I won’t mess with it. Plus I can Lucid or vivid dream at least without it…but it’s a pain at times doing the reality checks, meditation stuff, etc, at times. My memory isn’t a problem. I had regular non-lucid dreams last night and remember like all six of them lol. It runs on my moms side of the family…we have that photo genetic “look/read at it once and have it memorized” thing so I’m lucky there. I see a lot of people have problems just remember one dream as it is on here. I might try Gingko-Biloba which is a memory herb that’s used in the same was as Galatamine and about the same or a little less in affect. It keeps coming up on my research…and its cheap only like $15.00 and it made by most FDA brands like Natrol or Nature Plus. And seems to have been voted the best memory/alertness herb on the market, and used on Altimerz patiences just like Galantamine is used too …I even seen Dr. Oz mention it on his show to help people have more vivid and better memory. Supposly been around for centuries.

Yeah well see what happens though. I can say I know it’s the G that kept me up. I can say for sure it wasn’t being excited because I been dealing with the topic of Lucid Dreams and its related fields since the 1980s as a child (my mom was (and still is) one of those ex-1960s/early 70s flower power Woodstock hippy teen type converted too an older 1980s New Age fanatic. So we had books on all these topics all over the place on this stuff lol). It was very popular during the 80s. I can Lucid like I said on my own or semi-lucid/vivid non-lucid dreams at least two maybe three times a week on my own. In fact the other night when I didn’t use G, I had a minor lucid like I said. Anyhow I felt the buzz of it that night it kept me up. It came on in 20 minutes…was strong in an over like six hours it stayed getting less and less stronger. It was weird because maybe about seven hours later when I finally started to fall asleep lolol I felt it about subside away. It was good though because I got to see that this herb worked…it wasn’t someone filling it with sugar or just a mind placebo thing. I saw and posted a chart where this guy tracked the times its affected. It seems G is most affected 20-90Mins after consumption where its at 100-70 percent peek. Than it fades out of the body.

Okay thanks again. Take care now.

Sounds like you know what you're doing. It's pretty awesome that you don't need supplements to get lucids on a weekly basis. LDs are rare for me when I'm not taking anything. My memory is not great so I even have trouble remembering dreams in the morning. However, the supplements help a lot.

I'm surprised I don't see Gingko-Biloba mentioned more on this forum. My dad uses it to help with him memory. I've tried a lot of things to help me remember my dreams, but for some reason I've never tried GB.

Funny you mentioned that...I was researching Gingko the other day....it came up as I guess the herb/capsule people were using regular to help induce LD's before Galantamine came into the picture in the early 2000s. Another one called Bacopa was listed too which is behind Gingko for memory herb aid. Amazon had a Gingko-Bacopa combo tablet form to buy. It seems people have had a "hit or miss" reaction to Gingko with LD's from what I read. Some said you have to use it daily for about 4-6 weeks before bed for it to really kick in. So I dont know. However I read Gingko has a longer half life. I found out Galantamine has a 8MG syrup time relase version that slowly released a little through out the day/night after you take it so the peek and half-life doesnt fade after and too four hours but you can only get this through your doctor by perscription and usually only for people with Dementia will get it. I saw it goes all the way up too 32MG in perscription only tablets..gosh lol...Id be probably trying too fly off a building if I took that much. With 4MG I was alone bouncing off the wall hyper all night. 8MG per capsule is the most that could be sold without perscripton.

Have you practiced memory techniques during awake? I wrote about that last night on someone's thread. I think a lot of my photographic type memory has to do with stuff as a kid (and genetics maybe from my mom she had the same thing but was heavy into studying and memorizing in school during the 1950s/60s). But growing up for me in the 1980s was different than for many today. I read books, and had to memorize parts of them before returning them to the library for my reports or if I liked the book. Had to hand write or type (typewrite not computer) my reports which meant having to look at my books and than write it out onto the paper for my English research papers. We're still far off from the Internet/IPAD era when I was a kid hehe. I had to memorize long as heck ten word spelling words every week for my elementary school spelling exams through second to about seventh grade. Every Monday got the words. Every Friday was the exam...argh. I still sweat bullets over that. They were hard as heck words that we dont even use on a normal basis. In seventh grade my female English teacher (Jr High) made us keep a daily journal on topics she chose for that day (except Fridays...we got that one to ourselves to write about anything G rated lol), and we had to write in it the first 10 minutes of class everyday. I even remember her name and could see her at that desk right now giving us instructions lolol. Always wearking this black formal but nice womans suit jacket...very slim and dark brown shoulder lengh hair...look like she could of been Demi Moores twin but with long hair....she was about 28 years old and second year of teaching..and loved to pace back and forth when she read out of the text book. I sat in the first row to the left and she would pace back and forth right in front of our first row desks never able to stand stilll while reading out of the text books. Anyhow...theather arts...had to memorize those old president speeches for 8th grade history and so on. So maybe that has a lot to do with it...I simply unconsciously through youth and school trained my mind to have such a memory that now I can remember anything really fast and it stays. So have you considered memory exercises like those above? Like try writing words down and memorizing them trhough the day (those odd weird Dr words that no one knows how to spell as it lol) just to help with remembering. Maybe get Shakespare (Hamlet!) and read it...try and memorize stanzas or the "Acts" and recite it outloud to someone. Practice memoring numbers (like passing by houses and trying to remember the numeral adderss on your way home and not forgetting it). I know it might sound lame or stupid from reading it from my post (you're like..are you kidding? lol) but try it...it might help so when you dream lucid or not, you'll recall your dreams better. Mental Exercises. I seen some doctor shows and books that say our brains need to exercises to stay awake...to keep sharp and if we dont do stuff like read and do puzzles it begins to drift and get lazy. I do a lot of word searches and it really makes the brain work in having to find words in those puzzles. I work in a large school district now and have to always use my memory especially when it comes to knowing kids names and their classroom numbers.

Took Galatamine again this morning. Forget it...Im off it lol. 4AM and Im up more hyper than a sixth grader whom just had ten bags of cotton candy with soda pop. I took 1MG of Melatonin before bed at 10PM...was asleep by 10:30...Took the G+C at 2:15AM...was flying by 2:50..so hyper. Took 2MG of Melatonin...made me relaxed but still couldn’t sleep (the G is fighting the M. I can feel it). I can feel the G fighting me on sleep too. Every time I get to that wake/sleep border or I try and push myself into sleep...it "stings" me out of it. I dont know what it does to the brain, but whatever it does, it makes sure you either can't sleep or stay hyper. Im sure if I was to fall asleep it might just simply me knock me out of it anyway. Maybe I just can't take it...I have a negative reaction to it. Esp since I dont really drink Caffeine so my body isn't use to stimulates. Only time I drank Caffenine was sometimes when I was use to work at my old job in the ER Administration (registar of patients that came into the ER) at an L.A. hospital in 2006 to sometimes get me through those 12hr 7PM-7AM shifts. Even Coffee which I don’t drink much I can sleep through if I have it before bed. Galatamine forget it. If I was to take it in the morning at 7:30AM before work...Id probably be off the wall hyper all day at work which isn't such a bad thing at my job (I work in a school district now that can have long boring days lol.) I think G makes me "too aware" that I can't sleep. So I’m off it for now. Can't keep having these sleepless nights. I wonder if Choline will work alone. Maybe Ill just try Gingko+Choline or Bacopa+Choline . Do you know if Gingko has a caffeine style reaction? Can I take Gingko before or in middle of night and still sleep? Like I said I can LD without it or at least have nice dreams...but there are times esp on the weekends or Im really busy at work and just toot tired that I don’t want to do the relaxation exercises...having to catch myself in between the theta and delta stage of sleep where I go into sleep semi-conscious and into my dreams conscious. Thats how I get most of my natural LDs. I usually start dreaming right away after I fall asleep...I take naps sometimes and sleep for an hour and have full vivid dreams. So the key is too go into sleeping conscious so when you start to dream...you're already conscious. If that makes sense. Or wake up at 3AM...go right back to sleep but stay mentally aware. It works almost all the time...but takes a lot of practice at first. Its what people whom claim to Astral Projection do (although I never so called AP like they claim to have).

I also asked the school nurse late yesterday at the school at work about Galatamine. We share the same office (Im Health Clerk). She's one of those Master Degree of Nursing Sciences nurses whom is in her sixties and her life revolves around being a nurse, and she knows about Galantamine and said something about it I didnt like and that is if you use it long term for many years as a young healthy person (like me...Im in my 30s) it can deteriorate your acetylcholine over time and make memory recall much much harder in later life from recent long term studies that are coming out from people whom have early dementia. She said G is doing something that blocks something called the "acetylcholinesterase" if I spelt that correct to bring temporary better memory recall and memory sensing awareness, but eventually it can start leaving damage to your acetylcholine (the chemicals that communicate with the brain that makes you remember stuff) but for people with Altmizers diease its not a big deal because G can't reverse A diease anyhow...only kind of aid them a bit to be more comfortable before they head into the final stages of Altmizers where Galantamine has no affect. Funny her big thick huge medical nursing book had a section on Galantamine and that it didnt get noticed in the USA into the 1970s, wasn't really tested into the 80s and hit the over-the-counter or perscription market into the late 1990s under the name "Reminyl" as a temporary drug aid for people by some company called "Janssen Pharms" extracted from chinese plants for light dementia and was re-reviewed by the FDA over some study that those taking it over placebo had a higher death rate and the FDA requied a lable change informing this on the perscription version in 2005-6 and other new "studies" are pending on it by the FDA. I dont know..she used all these fancy nurse terms I dont even know what she was saying at one point and this big 2,000 page heavy book that look like it came out of a deans office she had in the closet lolol. I guess in basic after years of use it can have a reverse affect on your brain/memory that can't be reversed. So that really got my attention. So Im just going to stop using this stuff since it just makes me feel like Im on a high anyhow even with Melatonine I can't sleep with it.

Okay ciao for now. Any advice on that Gingko would be good. From what I read its just a natural herb that helps memory. Even my nurse friend said its a safe herb and been around for centuries and centuries and doesnt "manipulate" the brain. Oh yeah...she also said Galatamine is not a herb but a full blown drug...but people mistake it for a memory remedy when its not.
THanks again for your help too. Im new to herbs of this type. I heard Dr Oz on tv mention using Gingko to help memory awareness along with Bacopa.

I haven't read your last reply yet (your posts are so long!), but to repond to your previous one... I jumped into the world of LDing in January, and I dove in head first. I was so excited about it that I would read everything I could get my hands on. I practiced all kinds of techniques like mantras, All Day Awareness, journaling every day, setting alarms and doing RCs all day, constantly questioning reality, etc... In those first 3 months, I had a bunch of lucids and my dream recall was awesome (probably 3-5 dreams per night). However, I burned myself out. I stopped my mantras and other LD techniques. My dream recall disappeared (down to 0 or maybe 1 fragment per night). It was depressing. I loved lucid dreaming, but the effort got to be too much. I basically stopped for about 2 months before I decided to give it another shot, but this time I want to stay a little more casual.

So to answer your question, I think I'll stay away from extra memory exercises for now. I work 9-hour days and am pretty mentally exhausted when I get home. I'm having fun taking my G&C on the weekends.

One thing I've been waiting to post about is that I've started taking Jarrow Max DHA pills at night. I wanted to get a little more experience under my belt before posting anything, but so far the results have been awesome. On nights I've taken it (4 times over the last week), I've had lucids on two of the nights and great dream recall on all of them. Still experimenting and will post sometime soon once I get more results.

As for your last post, it sounds like G may not be for you. I thought the same thing about myself at first, but eventually got used to it. Everyone has different body chemistry and has different reactions to things. Valarian root makes me sick and gives me painful stomach cramps. It's fairly rare, but whatever. I just can't take it.

I'd be interested to see more about that study. I don't want to screw up my brain now (I'm in my 30's too). Sometimes those studies include people taking way more than the recommended dosage every day. I'm taking it once a week. Maybe I'll slow down a bit more just to be safe.

I really don't know much about Ginko Biloba. I just know my Dad takes it for memory. It's an herb instead of a drug like Galantamine (like you mentioned). I may give it a shot because the memory boost would be nice if nothing else.

I experimented a bit and I found that 2GM of Galantamine (pure) works for me. It gives me that buzz, but not enough to keep me up. I can’t go beyond that or Im too hyped up. I break the 4MG capsule and split it into two. It’s not that strong but still makes the dreams clear and semi-lucid (or short lived lucid), but not as powerful as 4MG. Maybe it has an opposite affect of making the dreams too vivid to the point its hard for the brain to conclude you're dreaming. It could be simply because I never was a caffeine person (like I never drank coffee except into resent on occasion) so that I’m not use to stuff like it. Plus with any drug especially ones like "G" you have to take it light because whom knows what years of using it can do long term. Can’t inhale it like it’s candy and should be an aid not a “I wont/cant/refuse to LD” without it.

I found out about LDing and APIng when I was a kid like I said because I came across it in some newspapers and my mother’s books on new age topics, but really got “into it” when I was a teenager in the 1990s. It was honestly an occult topic into the early 1990s. Only a small circle of people were into it or knew about it, and it wasn’t something you went around telling people you knew about or experimented with or your family/friends would think you were insane lol. It was harder because there was very limited information at the time too. My school library had some books about parapsychology that talked about these topics like LD and AP in brief passing. My local city library had some old newspaper articles and 1960s style books written by the likes of Robert Monroe and I investigated them all lol. Not a whole lot just enough to learn about it and a few techniques to experiment with it, and the fact it was still being a debated issue in science outside the occult arena with little knowledge on what causes LDs or APing at that time. I recall looking at books through the old book store too and there were books written as far back as the 1890s on this topic but it was treated as a very serious yet private topic only a few would understand or be able to work with. This was before the time of the interent so I had the libraries and about it. Internet was coming into the scene only about the time I graduated high school. I had some interesting experiences, but when I got into college and other stuff, I lost gave up on these topics, and didn’t care to pay attention to my dreams or try to control my dreams anymore because I had other interests going on, so it wasn’t into my 20s I got back into it again. I had wanted to AP or LD oriignally to meet relatives on the east coast or someone that’s deceased which got me into it originally. Now there are endless information on the interent and books/webpages written by people on this topic. A lot are silly or just nonsense or dont take the topic serious, but there's a lot of information at that. Im in my mid-30s now.

This is my experience with using 2MG (could of been around 1.8MG too) / 100 Choline last time I used it:

I went into dream after taking the 2MG. It was around 7:50am. I fell into this dream where I was parking my car in this huge outdoor parking lot. I then went into this building and did something, and came out. I came out from another door and it was very foggy outside. Not dream foggy but like real life early morning fog. I was like "oh crap...Im out the wrong door. Where'd I park" than I started running west I believe through the parking lot. I saw a little one seater type plane land not far off. I spoted my car and ran too it. The car was in a differnet space than I parked it and I than realized I was dreaming near my car and woke up.

I logged this dream down and fell back to sleep still sleepy enough to enter a dream state if I could. I was in a light dream/sleep state yet also semi-awake if that makes any sense...I was looking at this old autograph book from the 1930s. It was the old ones where celebrities would sign their autographs. It was a white book with various of signatures, and I was totally lucid and knew I was dreaming while looking at it. I couldn't make out the names inside the book but Jean Harlow (actress) kept standing out in my mind. I woke up. That one lasted about a minute at most.

So...interesting experience using 2MG I guess. Good thing is it's so a low dose that itll flush out of your system fast so any concerns about long term affects will be less worrying.

Have you guys read Yuschak's book about supplements? He recommends taking Piracetam to counteract desensitization and building up tolerance. :)

I breezed through it online. I just heard of him recently, but kind of wondering why he disappeared off the LD scene without a trace about two years back. I can't find anything recent past 2010ish. Outside of general herbs (like Natures Way: Rosemary Leaves Capsules) you can get anywhere like Wal-Mart and that can also help with everyday things like memory or better health I never thought/tried LD supplements like Galantamine and its family supplements. But have been trying Galantamine the last almost three weeks with "mix" results. I tried it about six times now. Mainly it keeps me up at 4MG-8MG, but I think 2MG might work and its mild. 2MG is about all I rather take anyhow at least now. Once maybe twice a week...maybe. I’ve kind of had a mentality of "most natural or not at all". I can understand safe supplements helping "push" us at times… I’m up for that…there’s those once or twice a week moments you need a push, but I don’t want to become and also I dont want others to follow the whole "can't LD without popping that pill every night" mentality. Especially if we’re not totally sure of the long term affects of these drugs (ie if using Gal even at 4MG doses will have negative or reverse affects if we use them two or three times a week for twenty years). I rather just not LD at all if it meant having to take something all the time to do so. There’s a lot of natural ways to help LD or give us vivid clear non-lucid dreams.

I read a lot of Robert Monroe’s writings and interviews back in the 1990s. Robert Bruce wrote a various of stuff around 1997 I remember picking up which is online now now in 2012. Keith Harary whom was a LDer and APer allow himself to be apart of a lot of research experiments in the 1970s and 80s. Celia Green and Robert Crockall (British Scientists) did a lot of test studies into this field in the 1960s. But really into the 2000’s this topic was kind of a occult/small group topic. You didn’t go around your local coffee houses asking people if they know how to Lucid Dream like you can or start LD clubs in college lolol without people thinking you’re strange or on LSD or something lolol.

I completely agree with you on several points. I take GM+Choline+GPC and Piracetam afterwards for a couple of month now. I try to take it once a week, but often times go longer without because of work and stuff.

Started using it to see how WILDs and sensations around it feel like, so when I WILD without GM, I know if I'm getting close. They say it's safe to take even in higher doses than what you need for LDing, but you can't really trust anybody telling you stuff like that.

Many people wonder why Yuschak disappeared. Too bad. He could have updated his research with new drugs like the new racetams. Happy dreams:)

Yeah, I read Yuschak's book. I view him as an experimentalist and use his results to "guide" some of my decisions. I'm fairly skeptical of him because he's not a doctor (at least not that I'm aware of).

I do take Piracetam after I take Galantamine, but I'm not convinced it helps in desensitization. Yuschak is the only person I've ever seen that makes that claim so I don't know how accurate it is. I'm not saying he's wrong, I'm just saying I like to have multiple sources before I believe anything like that. I did some research on Piracetam and decided that it seemed generally safe, so I use it just in case. I always seem to get lots of chores done around the house on my Piracetam days. I used to take Adderall (stopped a few years ago) and would say I like Piracetam much better.

Ace, congrats on your success with Galantamine! Glad you found something that works for you. It took me a while before I got it working for me too.

I have a question for you. You said while on Galantamine, you had a couple of short lucids. How do your non-supplement induced lucids compare? Are they generally much longer? More/less vivid?

I'm asking because my biggest problem is not becoming lucid, it's STAYING lucid. Most of my LDs come from Galantamine. I've had a couple of 5-10 minute lucids, but generally I've only got 1 or 2 minutes before I wake up. I do all kinds of stabilization techniques, which help, but most of the time they only extend my dream 30-60 seconds. I'm wondering if the G&C combo over stimulates my brain and makes it difficult for me to stay in my dream. I've had a couple mornings where I have 8-10 short lucids in a row. Falling asleep is not the issue, becoming lucid is not the issue. It's all about trying to stay lucid for me. Sometimes I'll spend my entire dream trying to stabilize, only to wake up right after I stop.

It’s hard to say because I only was successful with 2MG. Maybe 2MG is not strong enough to aid in a full clear LD yet just enough to get one “started”. 4MG I’m up all night so I can’t even experiment with that. But…the non-gal LD’s I seem to have more control over. They might not be as “crystal clear” as one might get with Galantamine but they seem to last longer and I have more control. I’m thinking Gal may over stimulate the brain and cause the LDs to last shorter if taken too much?

It’s hard to say with non-supplement LD’s if one technique works for me that it will works for another person. Our bodies and brains are so different. I always taken two capsules of Rosemary Herbs each day. 400MG in the morning and another 400MG at night as the bottle instructs. These aren’t meant to make you “Lucid” in your dreams but they are memory herbs and help you “remember” things throughout the day and night and kind of lifts that “brain fog” we get sometimes during long days especially those long busy work days where you're doing ten things at once lol. I do find them affective, and the smell of the Rosemary herbs is so nice hehe, but it takes like two or three weeks to kick in because they’re not instant enhancer supplements. Luckily they’re so cheap. I got Nature Ways Pure Rosemary Leave Capsules at our local grocery store for $3.00 a bottle for 100 capsules at 400MG each. You can buy six bottles for $12.00-$16.00 and be set for the year. But again…these herbs won’t make you Lucid Dream (at least not alone)…just help you have better memory recall or maybe if anything set the stage for a LD but that’s it. Although…I never tried waking up at 4AM and taking a Rosemary pill with 100MG Choline either so…lol. Some new evidence shows it breaks down breakdown of acetylcholine as here: Rosemary: Aricept®'s Little Sister? | Dementia & Alzheimer's Weekly

I noticed when I have a LD during mid-day nap or early morning it’s when I have a full banana before the LD. If I wake up at 6AM and have a full banana and go back to bed at 6:30AM I will either lucid or semi-lucid or have clear vivid dreams into I wake up again at 9AM. I hear Bananas have B6 in them and potassium that helps with the Lucids. I don’t play video games (anymore..did when I was a teen) and I almost never watch TV (because I’m a radio fanatic especially talk radio and nothing I really care for is on TV anymore). So maybe when I go to bed at night I don’t have all this stimulus still in my mind that can prevent an LD? But I have an excellent memory and noticed just relaxing before bed and focusing on LDing helps. I don’t know…these techniques work for me but again may not work for anyone else. When I do LD some can be long. They’re not crystal clear…but I rather have it a bit foggy and long than crystal clear and short. I think with some doses of Gal you might get the clear and short? I honestly don’t use any other supplements either. I noticed with the 2MG of Gal I did have short LDs…but they were like one minuters like the one with the autograph book. I wonder if Gal keeps our brain a little awake so when we do start LDing at some point we just wake from it in total. I don’t know. But like I said…maybe I didn’t have enough dosage of Gal to really throw me into a clear full pledge LD. 2MG is fine for me and it saves me any worries of any long term (like if I was to use it for five years) affects it might have on my body. Plus its better to know you can LD without Gal even if its only once in awhile with Gal being an aid than building up a mindset that you can never LD without the Galantamine like some teens are doing.

Anyhow…If I’m LDing I don’t keep telling myself I’m LDing. If I focus too much on the aspect of LDing Ill lose it. If I just say “Im lucid dreaming” and go on doing what I want as if it was real life. I can hold the focus for a while. If was too keep saying “I’m lucid dreaming. This is great..what should I do” I’ll just wake up. I really believe in LDing you have to trick the brain not too overwork so it doesn’t knock you out of the dream state. I most times don’t try to focus on my own physical body or dream body unless I’m messing around for fun…or trying to move my body in a more comfortable position. It seems to be the death of a LD when you focus too much on the body or having a LD in itself. I had LDs believe it or not where I was staring in a mirror and I would try and get a “perfect” mirror image of myself in the dream mirror (for fun) and right away the LD would end and I would awake. Once I start shaping my appearance in the mirror as it would look in a regular mirror…that’s it lol. I did it once lol. I about mirror imaged myself in the dream mirror as I would look in a real mirror but it woke me up and those LDs only last a few minutes. It’s like trying to focus on your body especially the appearance sends the brain into overdrive that eventually awakens you.
I hear people say when they start losing the LD they turn some circle turn. I never tried that. When I start to fade out everything goes in/out black like a hallogram fading in and out or an old movie projector that keeps going in and out of focus. I try and focus back in and hold the consciousness…and it works, but usually at some point Ill lose it later on (maybe because my body isn’t tired anymore or whatever). In fact when I start to fade I seem to automatically say in the LD “Im fading so I might not be able to much longer”. Another weird thing…when I’m LDing and its nighttime or dark in my LDs…I LD longer than say if Im LDing in a day light environment or I’m a place that has a lot of light in my LD. I wonder by our brain re-creating light in our dreams (or we do it) it makes our brains work too much which eventually causes us to wake up or lose the dream…while little light doesn’t make the brain overwork and causes longer LDs.
I hate a non-Galantamine LD last week that lasted sixty minutes here it is: http://www.dreamviews.com/f13/my-biz...9/#post1900700

My LDs are always odd like that. One thing I haven’t been able to really do is change my LD environments…like turn DCs into stone or make a building come crashing down and based on some of my LDs I believe some may be border line lower astral projections. Like the above LD where one of the DC told me he was dead and didn’t miss being alive.

Look up Celia Green and/or Robert Crockall. They did some serious investigation and case studies into Lucid Dreams back in the 1960s into the 1990s. They wrote various of books on the subject.

Hmmm, interesting article on Rosemary. Surprised I haven't seen it mentioned on this forum. I may have to get a bottle to check it out.

I wish I could have a 60 min lucid. That's pretty awesome. I think somewhere around 15 minutes is my longest. Right now I do a bunch of stuff that was recommended to me like rubbing my hands together, staring at my hands, looking at the detail in random objects, focusing on all my senses (mostly touch, smell and sight, but sometimes I'll try to taste something), and dream spinning. Dream spinning tends to work for me if I feel myself fading. It will sometimes bring me back and I have also teleported to different places just by spinning. I'm pretty sure my biggest problem is this: as soon as I become lucid, my state of mind is like "Quick start stabilizing before you wake up". Then it becomes a race to try and stabilize my dream, with the notion of waking up always in the back of my mind. I need to stop doing that, but it's a difficult habit to break.

I'll have to check out Celia Green and Robert Crockall at some point. I haven't read a lot of books on LDs yet, so that would probably be a good place to start. I know I also need to read Steven LaBerge's book, but haven't gotten around to it yet.

Yeah their writings are pretty good. Some of it can be found online. Its aged but well written. I find more of these books and articles written pre 1990s take a more occult yet serious spin on the subject.

I sometimes cant get back to sleep on G & choline but am normally ok. I have used as little as 2mg by splitting a cap and this works well with sleep coming easy the LD as I would expect.

Same what I did. Tried it once so far on 2MG and it seemed to work best. Everything else kept me awake although Ive only used Gal a few times. I havent really tried it since that last 2MG time to see if the affects would be the same. Everytime I have the capsule out ready to take at 4AM Im usually either already in a LD or I sleep through the night with pleasent regular non-LDs. I made myself tired and went to bed early the other night ready to wake up at 2AM...but ended up LDing befor hand where knowing I was fully Lucid I created this Model T 1919 car and was driving around a rural country road into I crashed into a electrical poll lolol. Eventually Ill try it again. One thing I need to work on is sometimes my dreams are foggy...like there's this San Francisco fog all around me in the dream. The more foggy the dreams the hardtime it is to become lucid. Yesterday afternoon I took a short nap and woke up in my dream right in my room near my bed. I tried existing through my window but woke up...it was so foggy I was almost fully blind in that dream. Then other dreams its cyrstal clear all night.