I have now officially reached the First Gate of The Dreaming, as described in, "The Art of Dreaming"

This isn't lucidity as normally thought of and discussed here. It's a bit beyond that, but it's not beyond dreaming either, because it's about entering the Dreaming, a state I guess you could say is the next level above lucidity and lucid dreaming, at least as far as I can tell from what Carlos Castaneda says.

Before I begin I must apologize. There are many posts and PMs here requiring my attention. But I am going though a sort of phase or stage right now and am not as active here as I was. I will return to my normal level of activity sometime next week. I have also not connected my portal to Thomson Square energetically yet. Once again I apologize, please bear with me. It's late, I should be in bed, but this is important.

Yes there is some pride of accomplishment here. I set a goal and I reached it. It seems I so rarely reach any of the goals I consider to be important. I wish I had a teacher like Castaneda did, I can only have faith that, "When the student is ready the teacher will come." I know there are those who disagree with my desiring a teacher, and I respect their viewpoints. I do not wish to argue with anyone. I am open to all viewpoints, without attachment or aversion to any of them, even my own.

I will not detail my dream. I firmly believe that dreams are personal and should not be shared as a general rule. This dream in particular has some extremely personal thoughts/feelings that I would not impose on anyone, and would not want to as I am a very private person.

In essence I dropped into a late afternoon nap around 4:30 or 4:45 PM. I was very tired and slept very deeply. In my dream, with a level of detail I had previous only had in lucid dreams, but which now seems to be the norm for my normal dreams, I was sleeping. The surface I was sleeping on, what I took to be my bed, was very hard like a board with little or no padding. I was initially imagining, then dreaming as I fell asleep, that invisible hands picked me up. They were going to take me to some unfamiliar place called the, "Toy Factory." This connected, through what I call a transition, to an earlier dream. The place has been abandoned for years and I am a little concerned about the state of the beds there. I am taken into a room and towards a large, nice looking bed. I want to be in that bed. But my bearers, whoever they are, stop short. I wake up.

Now you must understand something. I have a stigma in my left eye. This used to affect the quality of my dreams. Think 1080p blue-ray quality for real life with my glasses on, 480p without glasses, and something like SVHS video (the next step up from your normal video cassette player resolution) for my dreams. When I become lucid I jump from low res to high res. I see in my dreams as I see in real life with glasses, perhaps better. Well the last few months, obviously long enough for me to get used to it without drawing my attention to it, my dreams are running a a steady 720p - 1080p resolution. There is little jump to lucidity now. I see better in my dreams than in waking life, even with glasses on!

This is important, because when I woke up in the dream as far as I was concerned I was awake in real life. That's how real the dream was, and I was not lucid, but I was not without lucidity either (hard to explain.) Basically the dream was not carrying me along anywhere, but I was also not exerting control. I got up, checked on the laptop and (what I took to be) hard drives hooked up to it. There was a 99% or something on a DOS looking screen and the hard drives or whatever they were were incredibly hot to my finger as I brought it close. I shut it down (I think) after turning off a heater and turning on a fan. I considered getting my AC to put in the window. I went to the window and looked out.

Now it gets weird... It was a place I used to live, the same landscape as that place but a mossy, pacific northwest forest with a leaning or fallen tree. What's weird is my response. I responded as I would in real life. No startling, "I'm dreaming!" revelations. My response was a laid back "Wait a minute, perhaps I'm dreaming!" No change in detail, no revelations here, no sign of attaining or loosing lucidity. Everything just as it is in real life. I brought my hands up. I have been for the last few weeks training myself, instead of hitting my hands whenever I see my alarm clock or open my MP3 player case, been raising my hands and looking at them as I ask, "Am I dreaming, is this a dream?" This was just the same sort of automatic response to the similar question/thought. I raised my hands, they were mine, but the seemed to go through the window a little.

This brings us to why I posted this, ignoring my other obligations. I looked out the window, again remember no jump in detail, no transition to lucidity, and I saw a vine move in from beyond the trees., It shot out towards me, attempting to attack me. The window, or as I look back my idea of the solidity of a window, blocked it. The vine followed me as I moved in front of it. I know it was dangerous, that it meant me harm, but there was no obvious malevolence coming from it, nothing identifiable as human or other, just a sort of cold, calculating, drive. That's all I intuited.

I have not read far in Castaneda's book. Perhaps he has to deal with this. I have read far enough to know about the alien entities that don Juan mentions that some of the sorcerer's of old would track down. Entities that you had to be careful to be sure they did not notice you. My best guess is that this is one of these, or a form of one of these, or sent by one of these.

I have never been attacked like this before in my dreams or my projection attempts. I do not think I am afraid, but I am concerned as to how to proceed. I am still as defenseless as a toddler who has just started stumbling around. I have no idea how to deal with this. Couldn't come at a worse time either, as I am fighting doubts about my faith and the Bible. I will ask God for His protection, should He be willing to grant it. I don't know about the white light stuff. I have the definite sense that this entity, or the entity using this, is far more real than faith in things like charms, spells, God, or religions beliefs. I do not mean to disparage anyone's personal beliefs. I'm only trying to express how I feel this entity is operating at a different level. Humans for the most part are undeveloped spiritually, easy prey for any entity out there more spiritually advanced. Think of a situation like a devote Catholic priest confronting the monster from Alien. Obviously prayer, spells, charms and white light won't work.

So this post is to the more spiritually advanced members of this forum. How do I deal with this threat? My joy at reaching the First Gate of Dreaming is tempered by my concern at my unpreparedness for what lies beyond it. I feel as as naked and exposed as a defenseless girl surrounded by wolves in the deepest, darkest woods. Or I could use the analogy that I have been thrust into a world beyond my experience, as if someone plucked me out of this world and placed me into the world of The Lord of The Rings. There are things here I am simply not prepared for. But I am ready and willing to face them, whatever they are.

Please post your advice, and accept my humblest thanks in return -
- DreamBliss

The very idea that something can be more real than another thing is what is causing you harm. A wise man does not treat an illusion as if it is real. You are operating in a world where thoughts are substance, where intent is a lighthouse and consciousness is like a boat in a vast and unfathomably deep ocean, and what is the ocean made of? what is the light itself? These questions are the most important, for one in a situation such as this.

Even the waking dream of samadhi remains a dream. The key is not to lose sight of the shore for the waves, no matter how large they be, lest they pull you under. Always remember that there are other sailors, there is always help that can ferry you safely across. Hell, next time you get into a situation like this, call upon me!

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Couldn't come at a worse time either, as I am fighting doubts about my faith and the Bible.

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My friend, it has come because of this! the poisons of the root and the sacral chamber are fear and doubt, and when you stir the cauldron the steam rises.

It’s been a while since I’ve read The Art of Dreaming, and that book has always been a strange read for me, and I’ve never been sure just where I put that on my scale of belief. Anyway, I wouldn’t try to go beyond the first gate of Dreaming until you at least finish the book. I’m not saying that I completely believe Castaneda and his experiences, but I agree with you that there are things out there in the Dreaming that we do not understand and we are not prepared for, and as you read the book, you’ll see that even with a guide like Don Juan, Castaneda was too anxious and unprepared for what he got.

That being said, if you are still determined to go deeper into the Dreaming, I think that you need to take it slow and:

A) find a good teacher/guide that is extremely experienced in dimensional navigation. But if/when you find one, take what he/she says with a grain of salt as well. It doesn’t help to get fooled. That’s where, I think, point B should come into play.

B) find a good, trustworthy, dependable guardian.

When I travel through my dreams, I have a very trustworthy guardian that I rely on to keep my safe and get me out of trouble if I find it, and he has always been very helpful to me.

These are all just suggestions, but my complete and honest opinion is to wait, do your research, figure out your game plan on how to proceed and how to get yourself out if you run into trouble, and just don’t rush it! Be careful, because you’re right. We don’t know what’s out there, and I think it’s better to be safe than sorry. Hope this helps.

-kaze

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Originally Posted by telethiese

The very idea that something can be more real than another thing is what is causing you harm. A wise man does not treat an illusion as if it is real. You are operating in a world where thoughts are substance, where intent is a lighthouse and consciousness is like a boat in a vast and unfathomably deep ocean, and what is the ocean made of? what is the light itself? These questions are the most important, for one in a situation such as this.

Even the waking dream of samadhi remains a dream. The key is not to lose sight of the shore for the waves, no matter how large they be, lest they pull you under. Always remember that there are other sailors, there is always help that can ferry you safely across. Hell, next time you get into a situation like this, call upon me!



My friend, it has come because of this! the poisons of the root and the sacral chamber are fear and doubt, and when you stir the cauldron the steam rises.

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You have given me much to think about here, so that is precisely what I will do. I thank you for your sharing your thoughts and for giving me such good advice.

Only one thing here needs to be clarified. I am not psychic, sensitive, or anything like that. I am good at mental imagery/visualizations and sensing/working with energy. Through what I am attempting to describe I am like a blind mind describing an object to another blind man who has never laid hands on it. I know that some believe our dreams are indeed nothing more than mental energies. Some believe that it's all in our head so to speak. Some believe we astral project when we sleep, and are not in our physical bodies at all. I try to remain open to all beliefs while not claiming any as my own. No attachment, no aversion. I go with my experience. In my experience the realm of dreams is not merely a product of my mind. I have seen things, experienced things and encountered things that lead me to this conclusion. My theory is that we travel, whether astrally or mentally, to another realm outside our normal physical, waking world when we dream. We in essence leave our normal reality, like humans leaving the earth to go to the moon. We go to another place, and this place is the normal reality of others. Others may be faeries, demons, angels, etc. Others are entities beyond normal physical interaction, because the physical realm is beyond their own normal experience. In this place the spiritual/energy body is just as solid and real as your physical body in the physical realm. Have I made this clear? I'm really trying here.

I have encountered at least two others, three if you count Ayhunna, the fox who chose to travel with me as my animal guide/companion during my meditations. My first encounter, detailed in an early post of mine, was an object, a very strange and unique shade of green, that also appeared in a later dream. I believe this is what some call an elemental. My second encounter, should we include him, is Ayhunna, unless the old lady named, I think, "Siri Babba" I thought I saw in a special place I created in my mind was really there, then there would be four and she would be the second. We'll ignore that for now as I have not looked into it. My third encounter was what I have described here.

These others have forms, powers, and abilities. Many of their powers and abilities exceed our own because their reality is one we only encounter in dreaming and altered states of consciousness. Faerie/alien abductions, angelic encounters, etc are all examples of this. Any of these entities can affect your spiritual form in some way, and by proxy your physical form since the two are linked. Throughout history these others have probably have claimed the lives or minds of many ignorant humans (possession, for example.) Just because it is outside your normal physical sense does not mean that it can not harm you.

When I started exploring I went in with this understanding. I am a traveler in a strange, foreign land. I came here and to another forums to find the support and guidance of fellow travelers. There are dangers along this road, and we can warn each other of them. This vine, or the entity that sent it, is one of these dangers. It can harm me, not because I gave it any power by believing it can harm me, because it is not a mere product of my mind. It is an other, or is something sent by an other, and whether or not it can harm me has nothing to do with my belief in it. I can't give it more or less power or make it more or less real any more than I can wish away the approach of an intruder in my bedroom coming at me with a knife. Closing your eyes will not stop the blade. You have to defend yourself, fight to defend your life and more importantly the lives of the others in your house. This is the same sort of threat, just in another reality different form the physical world, and involving at present only me.

I simply don't know how to make this any clearer. I was attacked by an other, the first time any such attack occurred. It has nothing to do with my doubts or faith. As I said my beliefs are outside of this. This is something God, or whatever intelligence created the universe, has made but has not given us any information on. Any more than he has told us what to expect in another galaxy in the physical realm. Our experiences and beliefs encompass at best a small planet called earth. There are millions of stars out there, hundreds of galaxies, thousands of solar systems. So much we don't understand, don't know. That's just in the physical realm. When you go into the other realms they are just as vast, just as little known and explored, just as alien, and we have just as little understanding of them.

Going down a road mentally thinking positive thoughts and wishing away any bandits will not stop one from jumping out of the woods and taking away your possessions. It will not dull the blade of the killer, nor stop his bullet. Ignorance is not bliss. We are to be responsible with our lives and the lives of others. That means we have to be prepared for danger, whether physical and readily apparent, or spiritual and less apparent, but no less deadly.

I hope I have explained this well enough. I have encountered an other, or something sent by an other, and it obviously wishes to harm me. I am seeking guidance on how to proceed, should I encounter them again. It's motive, it's reasoning, everything about it is completely alien to me and beyond my understanding. I have nowhere to turn but here or other forums. I can ask God for protection and that's it. About as useful as going to sleep with a crucifix over my head. I'm hoping someone else here has encountered this or something similar, and that they can direct me on how I should handle this matter.

My sincerest apologies to anyone who has been offended by my statements.
- DreamBliss

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Originally Posted by kaze

It’s been a while since I’ve read The Art of Dreaming, and that book has always been a strange read for me, and I’ve never been sure just where I put that on my scale of belief. Anyway, I wouldn’t try to go beyond the first gate of Dreaming until you at least finish the book. I’m not saying that I completely believe Castaneda and his experiences, but I agree with you that there are things out there in the Dreaming that we do not understand and we are not prepared for, and as you read the book, you’ll see that even with a guide like Don Juan, Castaneda was too anxious and unprepared for what he got.

That being said, if you are still determined to go deeper into the Dreaming, I think that you need to take it slow and:

A) find a good teacher/guide that is extremely experienced in dimensional navigation. But if/when you find one, take what he/she says with a grain of salt as well. It doesn’t help to get fooled. That’s where, I think, point B should come into play.

B) find a good, trustworthy, dependable guardian.

When I travel through my dreams, I have a very trustworthy guardian that I rely on to keep my safe and get me out of trouble if I find it, and he has always been very helpful to me.

These are all just suggestions, but my complete and honest opinion is to wait, do your research, figure out your game plan on how to proceed and how to get yourself out if you run into trouble, and just don’t rush it! Be careful, because you’re right. We don’t know what’s out there, and I think it’s better to be safe than sorry. Hope this helps.

-kaze

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Again excellent advice, thank you! I am keeping myself open for a teacher. I do seek one. None of have come yet. I am curious about your suggestion of finding a guardian. How does one go about doing this?

Thank you-
- DreamBliss

Going about finding a guardian is a lot like going about finding a teacher. The only difference is that this person is there to protect you, and I think that requires a higher level of familiarity.

It is my experience that gaining a good guardian isn’t very easy. It takes time, and requires you both to develop a deep relationship and understanding of each other. There are also a bunch of different ways that you could go about finding one too, but like I cautioned with the teacher, I also caution with your prospective guardian. That’s where time and a relationship are going to help you figure out which guardian is right for you.

One way you can find a guardian is through meditation. Honestly, your fox Ayhunna sounds a bit like a (potential) guardian to me. Ayhunna travels with you, but have you ever asked why that is? Is he there only to share the experience, or is he also there to help/protect you? And if he is someone you can see as a guardian, ask if he is willing to find/follow you into the Dreaming for your explorations.

Another way is to call out in the dream to find your guardian. Once you find him/her though, you need to take the time to talk to the prospective guardian and seriously ask if they would be willing to do what you need them to do as a protector; but also ask if they want something in return as well for their services. You never know if you’re being tricked or not, so take the time to choose wisely.

The thing I stress the most though is the relationship! It’s just like a relationship here in waking reality. You need to get to know them and let them get to know you, and the better the relationship, the stronger the bond, the more likely you will know if they can protect you/do what you need them to do or not.

All of this is seriously scratching the surface though. There is a lot that goes into choosing the right guardian and developing the relationship, and if you (or anyone else seriously interested in guardians) want to PM me to have a deeper, more in depth discussion, please feel free! Hope this answers your question.

-kaze

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Originally Posted by DreamBliss

In my experience the realm of dreams is not merely a product of my mind.

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I believe you may have missed something very important in my post... I did not say it was your dream. I have seen the bodies of goddesses and the scales of Shesha, I have opened the thousand-petaled lotus and have seen the light of brahman . I have also experienced the other, and I would never say that it is a product of my mind. But it remains the mind itself for the mind is witness, and all else is like a thought arising and ceasing within the mind. The 'I' thought is also just a product of the mind, not the mind itself.

This is how they try get to you, you know? First they try to assert their own mind upon yours, as if is somehow more real than you can explain. Your steadfast stance on it's danger is like an invitation for more. This is how intruders try to manipulate you. The fight or flight response is the easiest door, because it is the door of the other, the discriminatory aspect. The beings of higher realities cannot intervene if you do not believe in them because that belief is the opening of a door, but they will not rob your house and will not enter without your consent. Why limit your roads?

Likeminds attract like, travel in waters where you think there will be sharks and there will be sharks, the law of cause and effect is like a light shining in the darkness for a subtler reality, where things are not as seperate as they seem to be here.

This is why discipline of the mind is the most important step in any spiritual journey. You must leave all of what you think is 'you' at the door. The void cannot be attacked. If you are empty, what is there to take? If you are light, how can it touch you?

the mind weaves and supports the weight of manifold realities every night, and you think you have the lesser power? all you need to do is identify with this power within everyone, it has nothing to do with rainbows and sunshine. What is moving your hands right now is the same force governing the stars.

The best way to avoid danger within the void is to become like the void. Having one foot on the road and the other in emptiness is a good way to avoid harm. Dropping the body image into darkness within darkness is a good way of stealth. Taking in the light is a good way to power. You must have the face of buddha to see him.

As I said and have perhaps demonstrated I am very ignorant in these matters. But I am willing to learn, and I sense value to your words, somehow it seems to me to be good advice. I'm going to go with my gut here and try to apply what you have suggested.

Thank you!
- DreamBliss

Erm from what I remember, isn't the first gate of dreaming reached when one finds ones hands in the dream? And crossed when one can switch attention between one object and multiple objects, until the dream is stable.

The second gate reached when ones dream objects start changing form, then crossed when one isolates a scout and goes to the 'inorganic realm'?

That is correct. I need to re-read that part and be sure I go about this the way the author details.
- DreamBliss

Ok I thought so, havn't the time to read your post again but im assuming you reached the second gate then, In which case it might be wise to cross the first one before proceeding?- if you are going to follow Casteneda's practises strictly, that is.

By seeing my hands I reached the first gate. The next step is to focus on 4 objects, moving from one to the next, back to the first object. I am assuming that this is after I see my hands again in a dream. Here are the steps, as I understand them, for the first gate:

1. See your hands in your dream.
2. See four objects in your dream, glancing at each one and returning to the starting object.

This places you in, "The Dreaming", as well as in touch with your soul. It should, with pratcicem become easier to stay in this stage. To my mind the dreaming is a level above lucid dreaming and below astral projection, although it could be astral projection.

I have no idea how to reach or go through the second gate. Haven't read that far yet, happy with the first gate for now and doing whatever I need to do here so I can regularity enter, "The Dreaming" and get in touch with my soul.

I have a feeling that you only move on from here when you are proficient in this area, and certain unconscious internal conditions have been met. Like the chakra meditations, you should have an inner sense when you should move on to the next chakra. As I have not read that far into the book, I do not know if this will prove to be true.
- DreamBliss

I've already gotten past the first 2 gates. Forgot about these. Should start working on them again.

Also if you want to protect yourself from anything in a dream it is extremely easy. The easiest way to escape anything is to close your eyes and imagine a new location, or imagine the opponent being gone when you open them. But fighting is way more fun. I like to summon a katana and battle whatever is attacking me, I did that this morning when I fought these guys that were shooting at me on an island, I deflected their bullets and slashed them to pieces. Like kaze said, remember that it is all an illusion, even your waking life.

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Originally Posted by SilverBullet

I've already gotten past the first 2 gates. Forgot about these. Should start working on them again.

Also if you want to protect yourself from anything in a dream it is extremely easy. The easiest way to escape anything is to close your eyes and imagine a new location, or imagine the opponent being gone when you open them. But fighting is way more fun. I like to summon a katana and battle whatever is attacking me, I did that this morning when I fought these guys that were shooting at me on an island, I deflected their bullets and slashed them to pieces. Like kaze said, remember that it is all an illusion, even your waking life.

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SilverBullet, you're the one who recommended me the Art of Dreaming, so I thank you for that, was a good read. Out of curiosity, did you follow the gates at first like Carlos did - looking for your hands, then focusing on different objects in the dream?

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Originally Posted by ShadowOfSelf

SilverBullet, you're the one who recommended me the Art of Dreaming, so I thank you for that, was a good read. Out of curiosity, did you follow the gates at first like Carlos did - looking for your hands, then focusing on different objects in the dream?

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At the beginning yeah. But it was no fun doing that same thing every time I was lucid. So I usually just explore the dream now. But now I want to try to get past the 3rd gate.

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Originally Posted by SilverBullet

At the beginning yeah. But it was no fun doing that same thing every time I was lucid. So I usually just explore the dream now. But now I want to try to get past the 3rd gate.

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I see, well good luck with that, how long have you been trying to reach the 3rd?

TL;DR don't want to sound like a dick ;3
Can someone summarise this for me?

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Originally Posted by yuppie11975

TL;DR don't want to sound like a dick ;3
Can someone summarise this for me?

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Well the whole thread is about a part of a book, so already greatly summarised. In short, DreamBliss thought he reached the 1st gate of dreaming, though it seems more like the 2nd gate. Im guessing you havnt read the book though, in which case im not summarising.

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Originally Posted by yuppie11975

TL;DR don't want to sound like a dick ;3
Can someone summarise this for me?

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This is all about Carlos Casteneda's book, "The Art of Dreaming." You should buy this and give it a read. I had, according to what the book says, reached the first, or as some seem to think second gate. I was attacked, and asking how to deal with it. I didn't feel the attack was a normal dream inhabitant. I had a deep inner feeling that what I had encountered was a sentient being whose reality is in the dreaming world, like our reality is in the physical world. Far more dangerous, to my mind, than some monster from a nightmare. I had a sense of danger and attempted to explain all this.

Two users came in with some very good advice, and instructed me on how to look at the situation. Others have in general supported those views. I am remaining open to these instructions and thinking on the advice I have been given. I still can't shake my inner convictions, but I try to approach things in flow with no attachment or aversion.

No attacks have occurred since, been dropping off to sleep even before I manage to set my intentions for the night. Having some dream recording issues. Basically put this on hold for the moment until I can get back on some semblance of a schedule.

Hope that filled you in -
- DreamBliss

P.S. Anyone here get past the 3rd and later gates? What's it like past them?

Wow I had a really weird dream this morning that was lucid, I was in the living room of my house floating but the room was all weird and skewed. The thought occurred to me at that exact moment that I should be dreaming of seeing my body to pass the 3rd gate. Wonder If I was close? It sounds similar to when Carlos was in his energy body.

If you want to talk about gates, read up on the 50 gates of the quaballa, much better then whatever that book is LOL. As to your faith in god, just remember, man is god.

Irregardless, as the guy way up there said, in a dream, things are how you perceive them. The most malevolent entity can become your best friend if you speak to it and ask it how it's day was. Your family can become shadows of horror if you so choose. It's what you want it to be.

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Originally Posted by DreamBliss

This is all about Carlos Casteneda's book, "The Art of Dreaming." You should buy this and give it a read. I had, according to what the book says, reached the first, or as some seem to think second gate. I was attacked, and asking how to deal with it. I didn't feel the attack was a normal dream inhabitant. I had a deep inner feeling that what I had encountered was a sentient being whose reality is in the dreaming world, like our reality is in the physical world. Far more dangerous, to my mind, than some monster from a nightmare. I had a sense of danger and attempted to explain all this.

Two users came in with some very good advice, and instructed me on how to look at the situation. Others have in general supported those views. I am remaining open to these instructions and thinking on the advice I have been given. I still can't shake my inner convictions, but I try to approach things in flow with no attachment or aversion.

No attacks have occurred since, been dropping off to sleep even before I manage to set my intentions for the night. Having some dream recording issues. Basically put this on hold for the moment until I can get back on some semblance of a schedule.

Hope that filled you in -
- DreamBliss

P.S. Anyone here get past the 3rd and later gates? What's it like past them?

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Sorry to butt in, but I've been reading through the thread and I found it interesting. What I don't understand is what is the point of passing these "gates?" is it supposed to help you get better with dream control?

Hi DV, I’m just trying to figure out my problem. When I was a kid (10-16) I had controllable dreams. I told my family but was told I was just dreaming. My issue now is they have started again. I’m 100% aware in my dreams but this time when I tell people things they can’t hear me eg. Last night I dreamt that my dad was in bed telling mum he needed someone to help him rivet the boat and this morning he came to my door asking. What are lucid dreams? I seem to dream most nights now which is strange for me as I never normally dream (last 3mths) FYI: The dreams I have now (most I can control) are never good dreams but thankfully today when without a hitch. These are never 9/11 B4 dreams

Hi you have a high text content which SHOULD mean you know what your talking about. I’m just trying to figure out my problem. When I was a kid (10-16) I had controllable dreams. I told my family but was told I was just dreaming. My issue now is they have started again. I’m 100% aware in my dreams but this time , most times, (this is kinda different) when I tell people things, they can’t hear me eg. Last night I dreamt that my dad was in bed telling mum he needed someone to help him rivet the boat. This morning he came to my door asking (in my dream, without help he would have moved the boat and had an accident).What are lucid dreams? I seem to dream most nights now which is strange for me as I never normally dream (last 3mths) FYI: The dreams I have now (most I can control) are never good dreams but thankfully today went without a hitch (maybe because I was off work?). My problem is I only ever have (what kids would call) bad dreams and they are more like action/horror films. I’m not sure if I’m asking for help or guidance?

Dodge your question is a bit confusing and not really on topic.

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I seem to dream most nights now which is strange for me as I never normally dream (last 3mths)

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You dream everynight, you are probably just more aware or interested about your dreams lately.
As for your question, its most likely based on your expectations, you except to not be heard, or for people to ignore you, and has manifested into your dreams, your sub conscious is trying to communicate with you.
Though.. If you feel that isn't the reason, then I dont know, maybe try to find another way to communicate?

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My problem is I only ever have (what kids would call) bad dreams and they are more like action/horror films. I’m not sure if I’m asking for help or guidance?

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..ohhh
so that's what the kids are calling it these days

lol

If you don't like horror/action themed dreams, don't watch so much in waking life.

^^ Left 4 dead 2 + mirror's edge while semi lucid... best action horror dream ever. Tanks are scary AS shit when they are chasing you.

Lol, was about to say that sounds like a good game but, it would be even better in a dream obv

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nhuc

Irregardless...

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Technically you mean regardless...
:P DreamBliss

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dodge12

Hi you have a high text content which SHOULD mean you know what your talking about. I’m just trying to figure out my problem. When I was a kid (10-16) I had controllable dreams. I told my family but was told I was just dreaming. My issue now is they have started again. I’m 100% aware in my dreams but this time , most times, (this is kinda different) when I tell people things, they can’t hear me eg. Last night I dreamt that my dad was in bed telling mum he needed someone to help him rivet the boat. This morning he came to my door asking (in my dream, without help he would have moved the boat and had an accident).What are lucid dreams? I seem to dream most nights now which is strange for me as I never normally dream (last 3mths) FYI: The dreams I have now (most I can control) are never good dreams but thankfully today went without a hitch (maybe because I was off work?). My problem is I only ever have (what kids would call) bad dreams and they are more like action/horror films. I’m not sure if I’m asking for help or guidance?

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I see you are fairly new here... Understand that, as in most other forums, simple courtesy says that you start a new post when you have a question. So start a new post. I or someone else, probably more qualified or experienced, will help you. Be patient. For now I will answer this post, and open up my PM box to you if you want to talk more.

Everyone dreams, this is a universal truth, documented by scientific research. Unless you are writing your dreams down or thinking about them immediately on waking they quickly fade, or you never realize you were dreaming at all. There is a mechanism in your brain that does that, a sort of protective circuit for your conscious mind. You conscious mind is trying to protect you from the ramblings of your unconscious mind. Folks here at these forums generally want to not only listen ti those ramblings, but interact with and use this rarely accessed part of their brain. Someone correct me if I got any of this wrong. This is how I understand it from what I have read so far.

You say that when you were a child you could control your dreams. From what I have read this is normal, typical even for children. They can even astral project and do so fearlessly. Then they hit their teens and forget all about it. My guess is that many of the people in this forum are here because of some long-forgotten memory, feeling or instinct that there was something they experienced as a child. Nothing to worry about here. I hereby official certify you as normal :D It's also perfectly normal parent-speak to say, in essence, "It's only a dream." Parents have forgotten, in most if not all cases, their childhood. Thankfully this is changing. I know when I have children I will raise them like Robert Moss says he raises his. The whole family gathers together and talks about their dreams every morning. Dreams are never, "just dreams" in an active dreaming family!

Now you say your dreams are controllable. What do you mean? Is it that you are aware of the dream, but are still, "on rails" in a sense, unable to control anything? If this is the case I think what users here recommend is looking at your hand. Castenada says look at 4 objects, always returning to the first one. Others say spin yourself around really fast. You have to do something to "take the reigns" so to speak. You may be lucid (aware you are dreaming) but that doesn't mean you are in control.

Lucid dreams, to answer your questions, are dreams in which you "wake up." They are dreams in which you realize you are dreaming. In my case this used to be followed by an extreme increase in detail and quality. To become lucid, as I said, look at your hands, or, if you prefer, look for objects that are common in your dreams (your old house, an old friend, a toy of some sort, etc.) Mark McEllroy goes over this in, "Lucid Dreaming For Beginners." There are many tutorials and resources here as well. You will have to start recording your dreams, the instant you wake up, using a Dream Journal or a voice recorder! This will help you see common themes and various things common to your dreams (Dream Signs.) Easiest way though seems to be to look for your hands. Put a note on your clock, another in some other place like a mirror or something that says, "Am I Dreaming?" Then look at your hands every time you see the note as you go about your day. You will soon do the same in your dreams, and once you see your hands you can then focus on 4 objects, coming back to the first, to stabilize and enter, "The Dreaming."

If I were having bad dreams, AKA nightmares, AKA Freddy Krueger or that creepy doll from Saw were following me around, or I turned a corner and came face to snout with a heavily drooling, overly large wolf, well I would stand my ground and ask it what it wants, what it represents. This also applies to anything you encounter in a dream, even a house or creepy room. Everything is sentient, or at least able to communicate, within a dream (the walls really do speak...)

These bad dreams you are having is simply your subconscious slapping you upside the head and saying, in essence, "Dude you have really got to deal with this problem!" Something in your present life or past, remembered or blocked, is causing these nightmares. In some rare cases you could be dealing with supernatural contact such as a poltergeist (supposedly attach to teens), a ghost of someone who has not moved on (person-hauntings) or an encounter with an elemental or other sentient being from the astral plane. Elementals also come to children's and teens, they have limited intelligence but are very powerful and excellent allies, so I have read. Other encounters from the astral plane could be anything from demons to faeries to aliens. More than likely however you are simply stressed out about the girl you want to ask out who has the hugely muscular boyfriend, or an up and coming test from the teacher who you are convinced hates you, if you are a teen as a suspect by your writing. Any stresses in your day don't simply go away. They sink down, deep down inside, and you subconscious is the guard at the gate protecting you.

So, if it were my dream, I would face the monster, whatever form it takes, and ask it what it is and what it wants. Also if it were my dream, the fact that people close to me couldn't hear me would be a big clue. On waking I would right down as many details as I could remember, as well as the first three things I feel. Then I would translate the dream to find its meaning. I have a form: Attachment 2869 you can use for this purpose (yes I know, more paperwork...)

I hope I helped -
- DreamBliss

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nhuc

If you want to talk about gates, read up on the 50 gates of the quaballa...

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You mean Kaballah - right? The scriptures of Jewish Mysticism (one of my near-future areas of study.)
- DreamBliss

its quabala and yes, yes i do =p.

Bumping this old thread for a reason...

OK so while I am still not %100 on this, it seems to me that these vines are a manifestation of earth energy. In my recent times with Ayhunna, who has returned, I have, somehow, used vines coming out of the earth for the purpose of sending energy, whether it be transformative or energizing. Still not totally sure it's me working with the vines or Ayhunna. But I'm leaning towards that its me. Some sort of progession? You get to a certain state and you can perceive earth energy in this way, and work with it in this way?

So looking back on this dream, perhaps the vines were not attacking after all. Perhaps they wanted to energize me. With that thought in mind, just the other day, I entered that dreamscape again and this time allowed the vines to come and surround me. They did something to my energy body, made it brighter, ever since I now have two lights at my center. Not totally sure they are related. But I have the usual yellowish/orange/white center light, my unique energy signature, and now I have this brighter, slightly bigger, yellow/white light that looks like a miniture sun to my mind's eye.

Still figuring all this out, probably has its roots in shamanism since I am working with the earth and a spirit animal. But important enough to resurrect this. If you encounter vines coming towards you, could also appear as roots, go ahead and let them surround you. Don't give in to fear, as I did. But understand that if they surround you it is to work with you energetically in some way. It will affect you energetically. So proceed with caution! Use your gut instincts, if you can feel it outside the screaming voice of fear. Go with what feels right, but don't trust your feelings all the way either. Be clear-headed when you make your decision.

Ideally before letting earth energy transform you or energize you it would probably be a good idea to study up on Shamanism, find a good forum covering the practice, ask questions, get answers, know what you're getting into. I just jump and hope there's water down there. Sooner or later this approach will reach out and bite me in the arse. You must do whatever feels right and works best for you.

So vines = manifestation of earth energy.
- DreamBliss

Hi there, I'm a long time lucid dreamer and I just wanted to share my thoughts on your problem.

So first of all, the problem as I understand it is that when you achieve this higher level of lucidity and become more in touch with the dream, you are presented with a threat, almost the guardian of the gate so to speak. It comes in the form of a vine and if you're too close it will attack you or just interact with you.

I also see that you've actually concluded it's purpose. This is where I have to not disagree with you, but I do strongly caution you about using deterministic reasoning. Why I do this is because what inhabits our dreams is a manifestation of something within our mind. Hence if we relate vines to a religious context and believe that they will act a certain way, or do something certain then we are creating a self for filling prophecy. In other words, you're creating this story at the same time you explore it and I think you haven't come to terms with that yet.

I can tell you that there are places and there are beings out there which we can reach in our dreams and they are not of the mind. However I'm very skeptical of your vines. To me it seems that you're making them out to be more than what they are and inadvertently making them more than what they were. Now from what do I credit this evidence you ask? Well I speak mainly from experience because when I was younger I would often have strange dreams and talk to my friend about them. Some were nonsensical and I ignored them, for that reason they never came back. However it was the dreams that I said "This means something man..." about which always came back. As a result I realized that the more I wanted to see, the more that would follow.

It sounds very consistent with this. Had you ignored that vine as an enigma and not thought of it again, I would argue that you would not still be talking about it and that it would not have ever reoccurred in your dreams. This is an aspect of the spiritual which isn't taught but if you're ever going to elevate to the level that you want, you have to be true to yourself. Even though you wish there was more to something, every now and then we have to admit to ourselves that there's not. Otherwise we are perpetuating a lie, and all we will ever receive back is lies. I can tell you now that the more true to yourself you are, and the more skeptical you are, the greater your understanding of dreams will become.

Now I'm not mad about your religious beliefs, I'm an atheist and I have suffered exactly the same problems so it doesn't matter. I'm just saying self deception is that easiest thing for a human to do and as anyone with a psychology background will tell you, we do it all the time. I'm not saying you've deceived yourself either, I'm simply saying you may have and that should be something you look into. Dreams are about the philosophical mind, the type of mind that looks both ways crossing a one way street.

Hey I appreciate your feedback!

For the record the vines never recurred, and I've rarely lucid dreamed since.

I just connected the dots when the vines showed up on their own during my time, a sort of meditative state, with Ayhunna. They came up from the ground and were, to me, a manifestation of earth energy. A way for me to see it I guess. Feels right so I'm going with it.

BTW I have moved on from Castenada's teachings as there is suspicion about them.

I'll try to go over what you said later -
- DreamBliss