Thread: I have now officially reached the First Gate of The Dreaming, as described in, "The Art of Dreaming"

The very idea that something can be more real than another thing is what is causing you harm. A wise man does not treat an illusion as if it is real. You are operating in a world where thoughts are substance, where intent is a lighthouse and consciousness is like a boat in a vast and unfathomably deep ocean, and what is the ocean made of? what is the light itself? These questions are the most important, for one in a situation such as this.

Even the waking dream of samadhi remains a dream. The key is not to lose sight of the shore for the waves, no matter how large they be, lest they pull you under. Always remember that there are other sailors, there is always help that can ferry you safely across. Hell, next time you get into a situation like this, call upon me!

Couldn't come at a worse time either, as I am fighting doubts about my faith and the Bible.

My friend, it has come because of this! the poisons of the root and the sacral chamber are fear and doubt, and when you stir the cauldron the steam rises.

Originally Posted by telethiese

The very idea that something can be more real than another thing is what is causing you harm. A wise man does not treat an illusion as if it is real. You are operating in a world where thoughts are substance, where intent is a lighthouse and consciousness is like a boat in a vast and unfathomably deep ocean, and what is the ocean made of? what is the light itself? These questions are the most important, for one in a situation such as this.

Even the waking dream of samadhi remains a dream. The key is not to lose sight of the shore for the waves, no matter how large they be, lest they pull you under. Always remember that there are other sailors, there is always help that can ferry you safely across. Hell, next time you get into a situation like this, call upon me!



My friend, it has come because of this! the poisons of the root and the sacral chamber are fear and doubt, and when you stir the cauldron the steam rises.

You have given me much to think about here, so that is precisely what I will do. I thank you for your sharing your thoughts and for giving me such good advice.

Only one thing here needs to be clarified. I am not psychic, sensitive, or anything like that. I am good at mental imagery/visualizations and sensing/working with energy. Through what I am attempting to describe I am like a blind mind describing an object to another blind man who has never laid hands on it. I know that some believe our dreams are indeed nothing more than mental energies. Some believe that it's all in our head so to speak. Some believe we astral project when we sleep, and are not in our physical bodies at all. I try to remain open to all beliefs while not claiming any as my own. No attachment, no aversion. I go with my experience. In my experience the realm of dreams is not merely a product of my mind. I have seen things, experienced things and encountered things that lead me to this conclusion. My theory is that we travel, whether astrally or mentally, to another realm outside our normal physical, waking world when we dream. We in essence leave our normal reality, like humans leaving the earth to go to the moon. We go to another place, and this place is the normal reality of others. Others may be faeries, demons, angels, etc. Others are entities beyond normal physical interaction, because the physical realm is beyond their own normal experience. In this place the spiritual/energy body is just as solid and real as your physical body in the physical realm. Have I made this clear? I'm really trying here.

I have encountered at least two others, three if you count Ayhunna, the fox who chose to travel with me as my animal guide/companion during my meditations. My first encounter, detailed in an early post of mine, was an object, a very strange and unique shade of green, that also appeared in a later dream. I believe this is what some call an elemental. My second encounter, should we include him, is Ayhunna, unless the old lady named, I think, "Siri Babba" I thought I saw in a special place I created in my mind was really there, then there would be four and she would be the second. We'll ignore that for now as I have not looked into it. My third encounter was what I have described here.

These others have forms, powers, and abilities. Many of their powers and abilities exceed our own because their reality is one we only encounter in dreaming and altered states of consciousness. Faerie/alien abductions, angelic encounters, etc are all examples of this. Any of these entities can affect your spiritual form in some way, and by proxy your physical form since the two are linked. Throughout history these others have probably have claimed the lives or minds of many ignorant humans (possession, for example.) Just because it is outside your normal physical sense does not mean that it can not harm you.

When I started exploring I went in with this understanding. I am a traveler in a strange, foreign land. I came here and to another forums to find the support and guidance of fellow travelers. There are dangers along this road, and we can warn each other of them. This vine, or the entity that sent it, is one of these dangers. It can harm me, not because I gave it any power by believing it can harm me, because it is not a mere product of my mind. It is an other, or is something sent by an other, and whether or not it can harm me has nothing to do with my belief in it. I can't give it more or less power or make it more or less real any more than I can wish away the approach of an intruder in my bedroom coming at me with a knife. Closing your eyes will not stop the blade. You have to defend yourself, fight to defend your life and more importantly the lives of the others in your house. This is the same sort of threat, just in another reality different form the physical world, and involving at present only me.

I simply don't know how to make this any clearer. I was attacked by an other, the first time any such attack occurred. It has nothing to do with my doubts or faith. As I said my beliefs are outside of this. This is something God, or whatever intelligence created the universe, has made but has not given us any information on. Any more than he has told us what to expect in another galaxy in the physical realm. Our experiences and beliefs encompass at best a small planet called earth. There are millions of stars out there, hundreds of galaxies, thousands of solar systems. So much we don't understand, don't know. That's just in the physical realm. When you go into the other realms they are just as vast, just as little known and explored, just as alien, and we have just as little understanding of them.

Going down a road mentally thinking positive thoughts and wishing away any bandits will not stop one from jumping out of the woods and taking away your possessions. It will not dull the blade of the killer, nor stop his bullet. Ignorance is not bliss. We are to be responsible with our lives and the lives of others. That means we have to be prepared for danger, whether physical and readily apparent, or spiritual and less apparent, but no less deadly.

I hope I have explained this well enough. I have encountered an other, or something sent by an other, and it obviously wishes to harm me. I am seeking guidance on how to proceed, should I encounter them again. It's motive, it's reasoning, everything about it is completely alien to me and beyond my understanding. I have nowhere to turn but here or other forums. I can ask God for protection and that's it. About as useful as going to sleep with a crucifix over my head. I'm hoping someone else here has encountered this or something similar, and that they can direct me on how I should handle this matter.

My sincerest apologies to anyone who has been offended by my statements.
- DreamBliss

Originally Posted by DreamBliss

In my experience the realm of dreams is not merely a product of my mind.

I believe you may have missed something very important in my post... I did not say it was your dream. I have seen the bodies of goddesses and the scales of Shesha, I have opened the thousand-petaled lotus and have seen the light of brahman . I have also experienced the other, and I would never say that it is a product of my mind. But it remains the mind itself for the mind is witness, and all else is like a thought arising and ceasing within the mind. The 'I' thought is also just a product of the mind, not the mind itself.

This is how they try get to you, you know? First they try to assert their own mind upon yours, as if is somehow more real than you can explain. Your steadfast stance on it's danger is like an invitation for more. This is how intruders try to manipulate you. The fight or flight response is the easiest door, because it is the door of the other, the discriminatory aspect. The beings of higher realities cannot intervene if you do not believe in them because that belief is the opening of a door, but they will not rob your house and will not enter without your consent. Why limit your roads?

Likeminds attract like, travel in waters where you think there will be sharks and there will be sharks, the law of cause and effect is like a light shining in the darkness for a subtler reality, where things are not as seperate as they seem to be here.

This is why discipline of the mind is the most important step in any spiritual journey. You must leave all of what you think is 'you' at the door. The void cannot be attacked. If you are empty, what is there to take? If you are light, how can it touch you?

the mind weaves and supports the weight of manifold realities every night, and you think you have the lesser power? all you need to do is identify with this power within everyone, it has nothing to do with rainbows and sunshine. What is moving your hands right now is the same force governing the stars.

The best way to avoid danger within the void is to become like the void. Having one foot on the road and the other in emptiness is a good way to avoid harm. Dropping the body image into darkness within darkness is a good way of stealth. Taking in the light is a good way to power. You must have the face of buddha to see him.

As I said and have perhaps demonstrated I am very ignorant in these matters. But I am willing to learn, and I sense value to your words, somehow it seems to me to be good advice. I'm going to go with my gut here and try to apply what you have suggested.

Thank you!
- DreamBliss

Hi you have a high text content which SHOULD mean you know what your talking about. I’m just trying to figure out my problem. When I was a kid (10-16) I had controllable dreams. I told my family but was told I was just dreaming. My issue now is they have started again. I’m 100% aware in my dreams but this time , most times, (this is kinda different) when I tell people things, they can’t hear me eg. Last night I dreamt that my dad was in bed telling mum he needed someone to help him rivet the boat. This morning he came to my door asking (in my dream, without help he would have moved the boat and had an accident).What are lucid dreams? I seem to dream most nights now which is strange for me as I never normally dream (last 3mths) FYI: The dreams I have now (most I can control) are never good dreams but thankfully today went without a hitch (maybe because I was off work?). My problem is I only ever have (what kids would call) bad dreams and they are more like action/horror films. I’m not sure if I’m asking for help or guidance?

Originally Posted by dodge12

Hi you have a high text content which SHOULD mean you know what your talking about. I’m just trying to figure out my problem. When I was a kid (10-16) I had controllable dreams. I told my family but was told I was just dreaming. My issue now is they have started again. I’m 100% aware in my dreams but this time , most times, (this is kinda different) when I tell people things, they can’t hear me eg. Last night I dreamt that my dad was in bed telling mum he needed someone to help him rivet the boat. This morning he came to my door asking (in my dream, without help he would have moved the boat and had an accident).What are lucid dreams? I seem to dream most nights now which is strange for me as I never normally dream (last 3mths) FYI: The dreams I have now (most I can control) are never good dreams but thankfully today went without a hitch (maybe because I was off work?). My problem is I only ever have (what kids would call) bad dreams and they are more like action/horror films. I’m not sure if I’m asking for help or guidance?

I see you are fairly new here... Understand that, as in most other forums, simple courtesy says that you start a new post when you have a question. So start a new post. I or someone else, probably more qualified or experienced, will help you. Be patient. For now I will answer this post, and open up my PM box to you if you want to talk more.

Everyone dreams, this is a universal truth, documented by scientific research. Unless you are writing your dreams down or thinking about them immediately on waking they quickly fade, or you never realize you were dreaming at all. There is a mechanism in your brain that does that, a sort of protective circuit for your conscious mind. You conscious mind is trying to protect you from the ramblings of your unconscious mind. Folks here at these forums generally want to not only listen ti those ramblings, but interact with and use this rarely accessed part of their brain. Someone correct me if I got any of this wrong. This is how I understand it from what I have read so far.

You say that when you were a child you could control your dreams. From what I have read this is normal, typical even for children. They can even astral project and do so fearlessly. Then they hit their teens and forget all about it. My guess is that many of the people in this forum are here because of some long-forgotten memory, feeling or instinct that there was something they experienced as a child. Nothing to worry about here. I hereby official certify you as normal It's also perfectly normal parent-speak to say, in essence, "It's only a dream." Parents have forgotten, in most if not all cases, their childhood. Thankfully this is changing. I know when I have children I will raise them like Robert Moss says he raises his. The whole family gathers together and talks about their dreams every morning. Dreams are never, "just dreams" in an active dreaming family!

Now you say your dreams are controllable. What do you mean? Is it that you are aware of the dream, but are still, "on rails" in a sense, unable to control anything? If this is the case I think what users here recommend is looking at your hand. Castenada says look at 4 objects, always returning to the first one. Others say spin yourself around really fast. You have to do something to "take the reigns" so to speak. You may be lucid (aware you are dreaming) but that doesn't mean you are in control.

Lucid dreams, to answer your questions, are dreams in which you "wake up." They are dreams in which you realize you are dreaming. In my case this used to be followed by an extreme increase in detail and quality. To become lucid, as I said, look at your hands, or, if you prefer, look for objects that are common in your dreams (your old house, an old friend, a toy of some sort, etc.) Mark McEllroy goes over this in, "Lucid Dreaming For Beginners." There are many tutorials and resources here as well. You will have to start recording your dreams, the instant you wake up, using a Dream Journal or a voice recorder! This will help you see common themes and various things common to your dreams (Dream Signs.) Easiest way though seems to be to look for your hands. Put a note on your clock, another in some other place like a mirror or something that says, "Am I Dreaming?" Then look at your hands every time you see the note as you go about your day. You will soon do the same in your dreams, and once you see your hands you can then focus on 4 objects, coming back to the first, to stabilize and enter, "The Dreaming."

If I were having bad dreams, AKA nightmares, AKA Freddy Krueger or that creepy doll from Saw were following me around, or I turned a corner and came face to snout with a heavily drooling, overly large wolf, well I would stand my ground and ask it what it wants, what it represents. This also applies to anything you encounter in a dream, even a house or creepy room. Everything is sentient, or at least able to communicate, within a dream (the walls really do speak...)

These bad dreams you are having is simply your subconscious slapping you upside the head and saying, in essence, "Dude you have really got to deal with this problem!" Something in your present life or past, remembered or blocked, is causing these nightmares. In some rare cases you could be dealing with supernatural contact such as a poltergeist (supposedly attach to teens), a ghost of someone who has not moved on (person-hauntings) or an encounter with an elemental or other sentient being from the astral plane. Elementals also come to children's and teens, they have limited intelligence but are very powerful and excellent allies, so I have read. Other encounters from the astral plane could be anything from demons to faeries to aliens. More than likely however you are simply stressed out about the girl you want to ask out who has the hugely muscular boyfriend, or an up and coming test from the teacher who you are convinced hates you, if you are a teen as a suspect by your writing. Any stresses in your day don't simply go away. They sink down, deep down inside, and you subconscious is the guard at the gate protecting you.

So, if it were my dream, I would face the monster, whatever form it takes, and ask it what it is and what it wants. Also if it were my dream, the fact that people close to me couldn't hear me would be a big clue. On waking I would right down as many details as I could remember, as well as the first three things I feel. Then I would translate the dream to find its meaning. I have a form: Dream Interpretation.doc you can use for this purpose (yes I know, more paperwork...)

I hope I helped -
- DreamBliss