Voice heard when lucid dreaming

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Leo Volont


Jay, will think about what you are saying!

Now, I go way back to the sixties myself. *I partied with Timothy Leery and Ramm Das aka Richard Alpert, the pioneers of Psychodelics. *And guess what. *People who did acid trips and saw demons, for all practical purposes those demons were real. *Why do I say that? *Because these people were screwed up in the head. *They had REAL problems. *Well adjusted happy people who are at peace with themselves and others don't have 'bum trips' with demons. *

Anyway, if subjective experience is so unsubstantial, then why is it that mentally ill people, or any troubled person, can't simply imagine themselves a new Mental Outlook. *Why can't people with Demons haunting them simply change their mind about it and see Angels instead. *Why not? *Because at a certain level those Demons are REAL.

Please, Jay, it only takes a minute to think.

---

I disagree. I used to be a mental health woker, and I believe that all psychosis is caused by neurological imbalance. That is why medications can fix the problems. They can't simply will away their hallucinations because they can't simply will neurological balance. I had a client who thought he stopped a drought in South Africa by pointing a hose at it from Pearl, Mississippi. Do you think he really did? He also saw Paul Harvey spying on him in the lobby of his mental hospital. If Paul Harvey was in some other city doing his radio show at that moment, was he also in the lobby of a mental hospital in Jackson?

On a more agreeable note, you used to hang out with Timothy Leary? That's really cool. Did/do you know his good friend Robert Anton Wilson? He wrote my favorite book of all time (outside of my biases toward my own stuff :lol: ), Cosmic Trigger Vol. 1: Final Secret of the Illuminati. I know I am extremely skeptical, but that is some incredible stuff he wrote about. Did you know John Lennon?

Hey Everyone,

Seems like this thread has really gotten off the ground, eh? :)

I can only describe the things that I have experienced myself. When I say that I've heard voices, I've not been dreaming. I've been in the SP state, yes, but everytime that I've heard things, I believe, it's been from being just fully awake.

The transition for me from waking to the SP state often has me being fully conscious the entire time. I can actively choose to allow the SP to take hold or not. Again, I do not lose consciousness for even a second and know perfectly well what is going on. Like I said before, I've been able to experiment on myself while in the SP state by listening to the radio, imaging I'm floating, etc.

So when I actually hear, as in real life hearing, a perfectly clear voice say stuff to me it really freaks me out. Because when it's happening I'm like, this is a void _outside_ myself. And the voices are always ones I've never heard before. It's not random stuff they say to me either. It's like they have a mind of their own and acknowledge my presence.

I've never had a nice voice talk to me, but maybe the last one was but I cut it off too soon. Most of the time the voices are terrifying. The stuff they write movies about and people seek professional help for. The only difference in my cause is that I know that I can end the SP whenever I want and that it only happeneds at that time, and so the scientific person in me knows it is caused by a mental state, but then the spiritual person is me questions if it has any substance to theology and the metaphysical world that generations and entire civilizations have described for thosands and thousands of years. In either case, it's not good for my emotions to hear the stuff that is said so it's better to end the SP. My only hope is that the times of SP being a welcomed and amazing experience return because it truly opened my mind and felt great.

For instance, the last guy said to me "hi marc, how is it?" right, clear as day.

Then a time before that a very evil voice was talking close to my ear to someone else asking if he could kill me. "can I kill him? please let me kill him!" something like that. Pretty damn freaky!

Then there was another time when I had the sense of being in a great void. All around me I heard babies crying out, as if they were situated at every angle and distance from me. Like it was hell or something.

Then there was the first time when I actually saw with my waking eyes a black cloud standing in my doorway that I knew was a pure evil entity, and I knew it was staring at me with intention to kill.. I pretended to be still asleep and the thing then jumped on my chest.

That last one was the first time I ever had SP. I had no idea was it was and told nobody about that for about 2 years because I thought they would think I was nutts and I didn't want to jinx anything and have it come back. Even now it freaks me out to write this, that's how real and terrifying it was.

So, when I hear voices I start to think that I'll see that black thing again and I never ever want that to happen. That's why I get freaked out so easily over it and just can't pass it off.

Hope that gives a better indication as to how terrifying this voices can be. And like I said I truly hope I start to hear kind ones that will be my dream guides! :)

ok youve single handedly ruined my plans to try to project right now! you know it is freaky to think that it could be something more than just our imaginations. that thing u said about "can i kill him now", dude holy crap. lol, now im scared!!!!!!!!!!!! :oops:

Dreamtraveller, I was in the sleep paralysis state immediately after I "woke up" from a dream and saw a stuffed giraffe biting my toes. I even felt the biting. Do you think the stuffed giraffe was real? It really did seem completely real, but I don't think it was. It is a scientifically proven fact that the brain is capable of vivid hallucinations in that state.

I wrote that I had not made up my mind as to what I truly believe. That's why I gave the two perspectives that I have on the situation. In either case the same outcome occurs, which is my desiring to break the SP so as to be traumatized. And I can be traumatized from it because it doesn't actually matter if it is real. Sort of like how watching a very graphic and violent movie can affect people even though it is pretend.

And there is something about your logic that isn't sound. For instance, just because you did imagine a giraffe doesn't mean that if you heard a voice it wasn't real. It may lend credence for you, but it's sound logic. For example, just because someone has proven that people get hit my a truck when crossing some street at 2AM, doesn't mean that they won't get hit by a car at 2AM. One does not exclude the other. It seems that this entire discussion is about how open a person is to acknowledging thier limitation in truly knowing something.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by dreamtraveller
I wrote that I had not made up my mind as to what I truly believe. That's why I gave the two perspectives that I have on the situation. In either case the same outcome occurs, which is my desiring to break the SP so as to be traumatized. And I can be traumatized from it because it doesn't actually matter if it is real. Sort of like how watching a very graphic and violent movie can affect people even though it is pretend.

And there is something about your logic that isn't sound. For instance, just because you did imagine a giraffe doesn't mean that if you heard a voice it wasn't real. It may lend credence for you, but it's sound logic. For example, just because someone has proven that people get hit my a truck when crossing some street at 2AM, doesn't mean that they won't get hit by a car at 2AM. One does not exclude the other. It seems that this entire discussion is about how open a person is to acknowledging thier limitation in truly knowing something.

---

I am just arguing that hallucinations of the unreal are possible in that state, so therefore for all you know your hallucinations in that state are not real. I am also saying that the seemingly real nature of them does not prove that they are real.

Once again, the
~supernatural~
Stare into nothing and see nothing-
Other than what they imagine they must
be "seeing".

The only substantive proof
of your argument is based
NOT on empirical evidence
NOR on logic---
but on your personal whims,
And not even in a conscious state at that,
instead being in a state quite near sleep.

Yet still
you argue, attempting to add credibility
to a statement by stubbornly
standing at the helm of your ~private~ world,
Valiantly while the entire ship goes down.

- Tsen (feeling a bit odd today, but still considerably opinionated)

well, since you don't know for sure whether it was real or not, try just accepting that you might die at any time. I've been working on that for a while now, and have had some pretty great results. I've walked around the woods at night alone, backflipped off stone walls, and just generally done some scary stuff without being afraid. It translates into dreams, and im guessing SP too.

*Ahem* Well, I'm feeling slightly more sane now. Er...more capable of writing normally, anyways. I still feel the same way.

Leo, you're an intelligent person, but you seem overly insistent and sure of YOUR opinion. There's never room to budge--you might seemingly make a cession to someone in the fires of a debate, but that itself is part of your stubborn persona.

Have you ever even vaguely tried to accept the fact that not everything has meaning? That POSSIBLY, some microscopic speck amidst our life does NOT have some drastic meaning pertaining to our subconscious? That maybe every dream isn't fortelling some future event or revealing deep truths about our mind's workings?

Lots of people experience audial hallucinations when entering a WILD-type dream, and these audial hallucinations do not necessarily mean that somebody is really trying to kill them, or that they're communicating with departed souls, or anything of the sort. The noises you experience during WILD attempts are wide-varied, and many, if not most, won't actually involve voices, but rather noises quite devoid of human vocals.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Tsen
*Ahem* *Well, I'm feeling slightly more sane now. *Er...more capable of writing normally, anyways. *I still feel the same way. *

Leo, you're an intelligent person, but you seem overly insistent and sure of YOUR opinion. *There's never room to budge--you might seemingly make a cession to someone in the fires of a debate, but that itself is part of your stubborn persona. *

Have you ever even vaguely tried to accept the fact that not everything has meaning? *That POSSIBLY, some microscopic speck amidst our life does NOT have some drastic meaning pertaining to our subconscious? *That maybe every dream isn't fortelling some future event or revealing deep truths about our mind's workings?

Lots of people experience audial hallucinations when entering a WILD-type dream, and these audial hallucinations do not necessarily mean that somebody is really trying to kill them, or that they're communicating with departed souls, or anything of the sort. *The noises you experience during WILD attempts are wide-varied, and many, if not most, won't actually involve voices, but rather noises quite devoid of human vocals.

---

Not in my case. I've never heard random things that didn't make any sense. Like "ball 2 yellow HALLO!!!!" It's always clear sentences in perfect English (other than cries of babies). And the character of them is always the same as well. So whatever it is, whether of my mind or a spiritual realm, it is not purely random.

I'm sorry but that's creepy. Perhaps some meditation might help?

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Dangeruss
I'm sorry but that's creepy. Perhaps some meditation might help?

---

Exactly, it is terrifying. I like to meditate now and then, but I usually do it laying down and that leads to SP right away, which is why I haven't done it for a while.

The part that I don't understand is that I'm a good person and don't even do anything remotely wrong besides viewing occasional nudey pictures. There shouldn't be any basis for this at all. My aunt and some other people have said that people who become spiritual are more easily seen by astral entities, but that just freaks me out even more. One person told me the OBE and some other things were a gift, but that with the gift comes much expectation. So you can see that different people can have quite polar differences as to the meaning, if any, of this.

I found it even more strange when my mom told me that my aunt had had some strange experiences lately and that she wanted to tell her about mine because they were so similiar but she waited for my approval since it is private. When I talked with my aunt I was freaked out because she also described the evil entity, even waking to see an old lady sitting on her chest sucking the breath from her lungs, hands choking her, her floating out of her body and seeing it below her, etc.

Also, how can people from very different cultures tend to describe the exact same thing such as the black evil entity, etc, and sometimes identically. That is why I say it is not random. Either these things come from an aspect of our brains that all people share that result in the exact same reports, or there actually is an astral realm or whatever tying it all together. Probably the former, but you never know.

Who here could hear while fully conscious beings talking near or two them saying very desperately "can I kill him? please let me kill him" all the while unable to move, make more than a whimper sound, and feel the vibrations of energy flowing through their body? Seriously, anybody would be freaked out by that. Look at how well the horror movie does with such silly movies! :)

I never meant the specific content was random, merely the general topic. The actual words are created by YOUR OWN mind, not some fictional spirit's, and I'd be fairly safe in assuming that your mind is capable of creating a sentence that is quite comprehendable. But there's nothing behind these hallucinations besides your own mind. If you fear having some dark, disturbing voice telling you that it wants to kill you, then likely dwelling on that fear will cause it to make an appearance. That isn't to say it won't make an appearance if you don't fear it, just that it's more likely to if you are.

In short, it's all in your head. Get used to it. Blaming spirits won't help. Putting up crosses won't help. Medals, candles, "White Light" or anything else won't eliminate it, lest it be by placebo effect. It's something that's just nature, and you can't blame everything on something.

Once I found myself in deep SP. As I became aware of this, I opened my eyes and for just a second I could see some clothes take on the form of a being and it started to walk in a sideways direction towards me, step by step.

Before it even reached me, I felt a hand on my cheek. I woke up staring into those same clothes that my mind transformed into that entity.

:shock:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Genjyo
Once I found myself in deep SP. *As I became aware of this, I opened my eyes and for just a second I could see some clothes take on the form of a being and it started to walk in a sideways direction towards me, step by step.

Before it even reached me, I felt a hand on my cheek. *I woke up staring into those same clothes that my mind transformed into that entity.

:shock:

---

That would be freaky! lol.

Well, I just don't ever see myself having conversations with these voices I hear. It would be way too freaky for me. :)

If spirits are not physical, then they don't need physical body parts such as arms and legs like we do. So why would they resemble humans? Why would they look like old ladies and human silhouettes? On the other hand, I can see very clearly why the human mind would create such images.

Also, I can understand why humans in some cases would engage in bizarre psychopathic behavior. It has to do with chemical arrangements in the brain that date back far in evolution and have to do with killing off competition for food. I don't see why spirits without brains resulting from the evolutionary process would be psychopaths. How would they even have emotions?

This post is like reading an adventure story. I wonder how it will turn out...

Quote:

---

Originally posted by dreamtamer007
This post is like reading an adventure story. I wonder how it will turn out...

---

I wonder also. I haven't had any lucid dream or SP since the voice, which is probably because my subconcious won't let me until I'm ready and accept another episode to test the waters again. After all, if I don't accept to experience another SP episode how will I ever have good experiences with them again? Answer, I wouldn't, which means I need to face the prospect of hearing things I don't want again.

Maybe tonight, who knows :)

This all reminds me of the first sleep hallucination I had when I was very young. As I recall the story now it seems quite funny, but at the time it was far from that. I won't call it SP because I don't remember being paralysed, but it goes something like this:

I get up in the middle of the night (in real life) and I go to the fridge to get some food. My mom is there and she says "You shouldn't eat so late at night, you'll get nightmares". I thought to myself, ok that was a weird thing to say, and I go back to bed.

So I'm lying in my bed and it's dark...then I heard a female voice that asked me "David, do you want nightmares?" Me being smart ass, I said "yes." At that moment I could feel this menacing, wind gusting in my room and I was really scared. Then I said "no! no " and the wind stopped - and I never heard that voice again.

Dude, that is a pretty cool one! Freaky, too.

Once (I was about twelve at the time) I woke up, went down to the computer in the basement to check on a large file I was downloading, then went back to sleep. I heard this voice as I entered the REM cycle again (had no clue what it was at the time--it totally freaked me out) saying, "You do know that nobody here's going to survive tonight, right?"
I freaked out and tried to stay awake, but couldn't. Well, I had this dream while asleep that I started choking on my own blood, and it started to come out my nose and mouth (which was REALLY FREAKIN' GROSS, fyi) and I woke up after a few seconds of that. Well apparently I'd sleep-walked at some point, 'cuz I had chocolate-covered pretzels ALL over my face and in my hands, and the chocolate was melting and seeping all over the place. Which really was an improvement from blood, but it was still sticky. :P

Quote:

---

Originally posted by bzteam
This all reminds me of the first sleep hallucination I had when I was very young. As I recall the story now it seems quite funny, but at the time it was far from that. I won't call it SP because I don't remember being paralysed, but it goes something like this:

I get up in the middle of the night (in real life) and I go to the fridge to get some food. My mom is there and she says \"You shouldn't eat so late at night, you'll get nightmares\". I thought to myself, ok that was a weird thing to say, and I go back to bed.

So I'm lying in my bed and it's dark...then I heard a female voice that asked me \"David, do you want nightmares?\" Me being smart ass, I said \"yes.\" At that moment I could feel this menacing, wind gusting in my room and I was really scared. Then I said \"no! no \" and the wind stopped - and I never heard that voice again.

---

That is soooooooo freaky! lol. That's worse than what I heard! omg.


An update on the voices:

This morning was pretty pretty strange! I wasn't fully lucid in my dream or SP state, but recall enough of it and had enough free will in it beyond a regular dream. What happend is that I went to bed after reading the book The Voice of Knowledge by Ruiz and so had many spiritual thoughts in my head. It felt great to learn new things. Then I recall what I know now must be the SP state, in it I was confronting the voices and telling them that they had no part of my life and that they were vanquished from any part of me. Well, they didn't like that much so I had all these really feaky sensations of them trying to stay in my mind to influence me but I just kept repeating it and it seemed to work. I woke up and was immediately aware that something really dramatic took place and was instantly doing these arm and hand motions as if fanning the bad stuff away. It was definately not an ordinary night. I wasn't fully concious when most of it happened, I'm sure most of you understand what I mean by that, but definately had some freewill because it was just what I wanted to do.

I think I'm better now. After the episode I had this great sensation of peace and that the good and evil in the world, everything in the world, is just a different form of me. So what I was getting rid of were aspects of myself, and when goodness enters my life (always when I'm doing things right) it's really my other forms acknowleding my acts and rewarding me in a sense, and that's why we can't hide from good and evil (because it's from us and we know what are thoughts and deeds are). Anyways, it gave me a very good feeling, and there's nothing wrong with that.

I have had a very similar dreams except the voice in mine is demonic and sounds evil. It is almost like something is taunting me because I can't move. I have had the dream at night and during the middle of the day.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by firefly
I have had a very similar dreams except the voice in mine is demonic and sounds evil. It is almost like something is taunting me because I can't move. I have had the dream at night and during the middle of the day.

---

Yes, taunting is a good description. Not much I can offer for help though besides just not having SP.

Was "awake" most of night. How is it possible? In Lucid Dream I tried to swich on light. Woke up and it was off
Still reading about the subject, I need to [rppf moi is not mad