Can Dream Characters Lie?

A while ago I posted on the Beyond Dreaming board about a shared dream I had with a friend that I confirmed. But I dream about this person all the time. One of my lucid goals has been to (once lucid) ask him if he is a dream character that represents something in my psyche or if he's just himself. SO I got the oportunity the other night and he said "I'm just me, I'm always just me." Now this is the answer I was looking for. My next goal is to discover if we are actually sharing dreams on a regular basis. Anyhow, my question is...could he be lying? Has a dream character ever lied to you?

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Originally posted by suorkaterina
"I'm just me, I'm always just me."

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Lol no I'm always justme :D well I don't think dream sharing is possible, but in your next lucid dream try giving the dream chacrter or your friend like a password or secert code word, if you see them everyday and they remeber the dream they would try and tell it to you and see if you both had the same dream or something, then agian if dream sharing is real, I tryed that and it failed.

Well if you weren't dream sharing (whether or not it's possible), then your own mind made the DC answer the way he did. This means that he could have said what you wanted/expected him to say, and that could indeed be a lie.

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My next goal is to discover if we are actually sharing dreams on a regular basis. Anyhow, my question is...could he be lying? Has a dream character ever lied to you?[/b]

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well, get the other person to think of a single easily remembered (yet unique) word or phrase which they don't tell you...whenever you see them in a dream, ask them if they are lucid. if they say yes, ask for the secret word.

crossreference if this is successful in the dream...


DCs lie all the time in my dreams, mostly about being actual lucid dreamers. any DC can say what you want to hear...

My Dc's can be really grumpy with me if i ask them to do something they snarl at me. But they do it anyway

Dream sharing is VERY possible, I've done it once (none lucid) with my sister, and till this day we still talk about it, and once WHILE lucid. I called up my friend that very morning to confirm the dream and sure enough it happened. I actually got him to be lucid in the dream when I found him. So please, stop saying dreaming sharing isn' t true. Just because you haven't experienced it doesnt mean it isn't possible.

Also, dream character could lie, lol. I mean...I dont think they're lieing but more just saying what you want to hear.

When I told a dream charachter that they were fictional and part of my dream they exploded.

Dream sharing is impossible. I'm sorry, but if someone contends that they had the same dream as you they are simply lying or are confused. Dreams happen inside your own mind and are experienced only by your own mind. There is no mysterious "force" of dreams or a "place" that you go to, its simply imagery created by your own mind for you own purposes. Dreamsharing can be easily disproved by the afformentioned method of writing down and remembering a password, providing it to the supposed dreamshared person in your dream, and then seeing if the person in the real world remembers it.

A better question would be, can dream characters tell the truth?

If dream sharing is impossible, why not make those that claim it is possible.
Ask their friends what they dream about, BEFORE going like.. "Did you dream about this?"
if that IS the case, then voila.

Now before you read the rest i'll quickly answer your question:
Yes dream characters can lie, if your mind makes them lie, and no it never really happened to me, because I do not talk about personal stuff a lot in dreams, but I did lie to a dream character once in an un-controlled dream.

OR an other possibility would be to ask your ''friend'' in your dream, something you do not know.

Eg.: There's a girl from your class and you share a dream with her.
Ask her who she likes, or who her very best friend is, or something like that.

Simply confirm the information she gave you, and voila.
(Just make sure she hasn't told you before)

Now I ask YOU, why would dream sharing be so impossible

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Originally posted by Theotherguy
Dreams happen inside your own mind and are experienced only by your own mind. There is no mysterious "force" of dreams or a "place" that you go to, its simply imagery created by your own mind for you own purposes. Dreamsharing can be easily disproved by the afformentioned method of writing down and remembering a password, providing it to the supposed dreamshared person in your dream, and then seeing if the person in the real world remembers it.

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Remind me: Didn't people a long time ago, think that the world was flat? They were CERTAIN of it?
You might want to ask what relevance this has (Since the world & dreams, what the hell?)

But I just want to show you the point: As long as you do not have the ''skill OR technology'' to find out whether its true or not, everything is possible.
You do not know if they only exist in your mind, you only know that little lines appear on a scan device when someone sleeps.

The SHARED dream I had with my sister when we discussed it, she was telling it from her point of view and i was telling it from my point of view, she would describe a building or a particular scene and I'd confirm it and then I'd tell her where I was standing when a particular thing was happening and she'd confirm it. So I don't understand what you're getting at. FYI: Dreams take place in a DIMENSION, not necessarily your mind, that's why some people are able to have an OOBE.

I really agree with Alpha. Without the technology or methods to disprove either side, there is no way to say one thing is impossible or not impossible. You can say so from your personal experience...but it may be completely different for others, or it may be that you just have yet to experience it. There are so many theories out there that could support dream sharing....a linking of minds across a subconcious network is a theory that particularily comes to mind. If those were proved true, that would completely support dream sharing. Sooo....not meaning to go on a tyrade at all, but it justfrustrates me a tad when people jump in and say things are impossible PERIOD. Especially when they have no evidence other then their personal experience. I can completely understand you saying you may not believe in it, or have had no experience to prove its reality. When you start saying it's impossible, you are in essence throwing other's personal experiences into doubt, which is no fun at all.
DISCLAIMER:
*This is not meant to be a flame, so don't take it as such. Just a friendly opinion.*
:lol:

DC's are your creation. In a way, they are you. If you have solid control of the dream, they will say whatever you want them to say. If you are unsure of the sittuation and are grappling for control, they might say something you arent too happy with, but in the end, its all about you.

Note: I LIke Big Posts

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Originally posted by Siav
Big Post blabbering about how I agree with you and some other stuff

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(note: blabbering = a joke :P)

Indeed, also, I think those people that claim things to be impossible are too ''grasping'' for facts and science. (aka a sceptic scientist :P)

I wish they would grasp for this fact:

Fact: The amount or type or facts are limited by technology.
Technology is limited by our thinking, at current time.
At current time: we are not involved with special technology for dreams / lucid dreaming.
Fact: Facts are all thoughts of humans that are so called ''expertised'' in an area and agree on the same. (eg.: A scientist discovers something and calls it white blood cells, another scientist looks and sees the same and concludes the same: voila, a new fact).

Thus, there is a limit in facts about dreaming.

Btw, prinxess 's post seems pretty plausible (believe-able)
And I doubt that anyone here is going to lie about something simple as this.
(Unless you are crazy and want to cause havoc going like: OMG he said he saw an alien with 124812854 eyes and I said yes the alien had 124812854 eyes! (Yes I noted the same amount of eyes)).

So I can conclude from this: That there's only more reason to believe it is TRUE that shared dreams are possible, than that it isn't. (There's nothing to counter the arguments

HOWEVER: You can also meet a DC which looks & acts like your friend, so that's the only thing to watch out with.

Why not?

Onetime this kid thought HE was dreaming instead of me. I was like 'no You arn't dreaming. I am!' but he didn't believe me. No I am dreaming! He yelled. He said only a dream could be this weird, or something :) Yeah good agrument.

It made me wonder what DC's feelings are 'worth'. Are it just images or do you have some sort of connection with them, becouse they are creations of your brain.

I mean if you would give money to a beggar-DC, would him being happy be 'good'. I guess if other people's happyness makes you happy it's good to do. But only good for You.

I allso have the theory that the only reason people do good is becouse it feels good to do good. But then, is it really still 'good'. However if you wouldn't really like (want) doing good, you wouldn't do good.

ok offtopic.

DC's CAN lie :)

Quite a conundrum indeed. DCs are created by your mind so technically they could be lying. But there are a lot of factors that could determine whether he was really lying or if it was just a trick or something.

If, dream sharing was true, and one could "tap0into" anothers dream, even without the other knowing about it......i can think of some dreams about random people i barely knew, the ones when you wake up and your like why the hell did i dream about that person???m i never even met them....i don['t even know their name.

[quote]-0mega-"]Note: I LIke Big Posts

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Indeed, also, I think those people that claim things to be impossible are too ''grasping'' for facts and science. (aka a sceptic scientist :P)

I wish they would grasp for this fact:

Fact: The amount or type or facts are limited by technology.
Technology is limited by our thinking, at current time.
At current time: we are not involved with special technology for dreams / lucid dreaming.
Fact: Facts are all thoughts of humans that are so called ''expertised'' in an area and agree on the same. (eg.: A scientist discovers something and calls it white blood cells, another scientist looks and sees the same and concludes the same: voila, a new fact).

Thus, there is a limit in facts about dreaming.

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When there is absolutely no reliable evidence that something is true, I don't see how one can believe it.
O, you owe me $500, some guy was going to attack you, but I paid him $500 to leave you alone, so just like believe me and give me my money.

facts are simply statements that can be proven true or false dependant on evidence. without evidence there is no fact. You can't make wild assumptions about things and say something is possible without any shred of evidence.

Use occams razor, the simplest explination is likely true. the simplest and most obvious explaination for dreams is that they occur in your mind. Sure, you could be transported to some 9th dimension by some alien being which magically erases your memory...but this is a far more complicated than random nerve firings controlled by your subconcious (or in the case of lucid dreaming concious) mind. The likelyhood of "shared dreams" would depend on the existence of telepathy. The existance of telepathy can only occur if there is some sort of magical transmitter embedded in your brain. The existence of a transmitter depends on..well..magic. However, the fact that you both WANT to have shared dreams, and so you INVENT them and change the facts aroudn passively to fit the other person's story is far more reasonable and therefore a far more likely conclusion.

To abandon reason is to abandon truth, technology, and humanity. Without reason there is no concrete order to anything, and the world becomes one huge mystical fluffball with no rules or laws. It is true that our evidence is based off of technology, but a good deal of evidence points towards dreamsharing being impossible and dreams just being a mindset. Beleive what you want, but study after study concludes that such nonsense is not naturally possible.

What is fact for some is belief for others. It is up to every individual to decide what to accept as truth. Considering truth is never stupid. Accepting it blindly is.

I do not have a personal experiance from dream sharing. But when I was down in australia I intrudused a friend to another friend. For some reason they started talking about dreams and she mentiond a reacuring theme where she was a kind of warrior fighting with a few others by her side. I was only half listening to the conversation but remember clearly how they with ease started to give each other details on apparence and dream senarios.


In my world dream sharing is real.

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Originally posted by suorkaterina
A while ago I posted on the Beyond Dreaming board about a shared dream I had with a friend that I confirmed. But I dream about this person all the time. One of my lucid goals has been to (once lucid) ask him if he is a dream character that represents something in my psyche or if he's just himself. SO I got the oportunity the other night and he said "I'm just me, I'm always just me." Now this is the answer I was looking for. My next goal is to discover if we are actually sharing dreams on a regular basis. Anyhow, my question is...could he be lying? Has a dream character ever lied to you?

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Well, you know, just because a person is not intentionally lying, does not mean that what they say will be the Truth. they may not know the truth.

Your assumption is that the Dream Character Friend of Yours is consciously fully integrated with your friends waking self. That is not necessarily true. If you ever accessed your Dream Self's Memory, you would find you have a complete dream life that you know only some very little bit about. It takes a lifetime to fully integrate the Waking and Dreaming Selves into One Being. The Dream Self of your friend of course thinks he is the primary personality... and why would he not. From the Dream Self's perspective, he is the One who is Real. So, he is not lying. But his Truth is not the truth you think you want to believe. Your Friend's Waking Self may know nothing about these DreamSelf adventures... how many dreams does he remember and how many does he forget?

I'm going to ignore the fact that much of this topic debates the existence of dream sharing. So, can dream characters lie? Obviously. Should you care? No. Dream characters, in my experience, never have anything useful to say, and if you ask them to give you the meaning of life or some thing you don't know already, it's your subconcious answering the question. Dream characters can't tell you anything new, and if you want them to try to answer anyway, they will only say what you thought might be the answer already.

People can easily lie to themselves all the time, so it makes no sense to presume that a dream character, a stochastic self-creation of the mind, if you follow popular thinking, need be bound to the truth. They hardly make much sense to me anyway.

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Originally posted by Rapscallion
Dream characters, in my experience, never have anything useful to say Dream characters can't tell you anything new, and if you want them to try to answer anyway, they will only say what you thought might be the answer already.

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This is your experience. Most of my DCs are numbskulls who can't answer anything. Some of them lie, and I lie to them sometime (intentionally and unintentionally).

However rarely I do have dreams where I learn something. :D

Some dreamers have DGs and SGs that give lots of useful advice.

Tibettan Buddhism has the concept of dreams of clarity, where true information can be acquired. Why should we care what they say? Well, they've been teaching LDing for over a thousand years. If you read ETWOLD you will see that they also had an influence on LaBerge who is an acknowledged expert in LDs.

Come on people.

Dreaming is a thing between Reality and Fantasy and who knows what.

Don't say that something is impossible, the human brain is full of secrets yet to be unveiled. Besides, You're just ruining the fun and the mystery of it ;)

The same thing goes for placebos. I hate it when people say: "Wearing socks to bed doesn't make you LD". It's obviously a placebo, and it works for some people because they make themselves believe in it, so don't make it harder.

Phew!

About the question: My DC's have never lied, I think. I mean, what they say really is true... in the dreamworld. Wouldn't it be interesting to lie to a DC and see what the reaction would be? Like "I do not dream at night"

I don't know if dream characters lie or just make mistakes. Here's what happened to me some time ago. In a dream I was told very clearly that I should play my phone number backwards for the 4 number daily lottery drawing. This was in Conn. and the prize for having that ticket correctly was $5,000. So I played my phone number backwards for about 10 days and the number that won that last day I played was my phone number in the correct frontwards order!! So who knows?? I did continue to watch the winning numbers for some time afterwards [without playing] and it didn't come in, frontwards or backwards.

I know when I ask a question they act like they don't know what I'm talking about. :roll:

Well everyone always likes to say DC's are from yourself but what makes you so sure?

I've made it my lucid task many times to questions DC's and found out some interesting stuff...Check it out on my topic here...
http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22752

Ka! Can DC's lie? LOL It's very possible. They are likely to be just misinformed. It wouldn't explain why some change their answers to the same question though. :mad: