A Beginning

it seems that (most) humans view everything as having a beginning, a life span, and an end. but what plants this seed so deep within our minds? i think it is that every human (and living being, for that matter) is born, lives a certain amount of time, and dies. i think this is also why people have always had the undying desire to discover how the universe began. but, is it so hard to imagine that the universe has existed forever? that it had no beginning, and will never have an end? (this actually brings up a whole other discussion regarding the creation of something out of nothing). i try to imagine that the universe will exist for eternity. it is so difficult to accept that idea that even when i die, when I dont exist, the universe will infinitely live on. i could keep going for a long time, (but not as long as the universe, ha). what do you guys think?

well, then you must ask "What was it like a few seconds ago

a few hours

days

weeks

months

years

centures

millenia

Billions of billions of years ago?

Where did the energy of the stars come from? They will eventually collapse into black holes or exploed, alowing more stars and planets to be born, wich may also bang, or form more holes. In the end, we will only have black holes

but when did the first one come into being?

How far can you really go back?

I totally agree with the one that started the topic. It is just weird how most people really can't grasp the concept of infinity. Well to be honest, nigher can I. I am human, and humans just don't have any Use for being able to grasp infinity. 'In the wild we encounter NOTHING infinite.

However unlike other people, I don't exclude the option of the universe being infinite, just because it is hard to grasp. However, if you turn time into a 2-dimensional model, I could see it as being a circle. Time might be endless, and so might the universe.

-EDIT: In response to keepers spam that in this mind is proof for a god (just happens to be jehova): Black holes explode again after a while, and maybe the universe itself keeps big-banging. There is no reason why it couldn't. Energy doesn't leave the universe, the universe could move forever.

well I think in a practical sense, assuming everything has a beginning and an end is a good way of finding out if it doesn't. becuase if we assume it began we can try to discover when its beginning was or how it happened. and we can formulate how it can end. its just more exciting when we discover it might not have begun, or it will not end.

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Originally Posted by safe

it seems that (most) humans view everything as having a beginning, a life span, and an end. but what plants this seed so deep within our minds?[/b]

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Experience.

In all reality, even if everything ceased to exist, the universe itself could never cease to exist. I think that the universe itself is an intangible concept. It has no beginning or end b/c even w/o any matter in it the space itself would still exist. So, lets say one day the world ends, and so does every other world. The universe would still exist. Some scientists seem to think that the universe is actually imploding, which would be impossible since it has no end.. Odd... :eek:

One time, when a friend and I were discussing this type of thing while high, I came to the conclusion that time is a circle, not a line that extends forever forwards and backwards, so there is no need for a begining or an ending, everywhere could be the begining or ending. Further, I postulated that time might be an actual 3-D space, like a sphere or something, and that we could move around time wherever we want if we could only truly realize what that meant and its implications. Anyway, the jist was that beginings and endings are made up by us because we can't truly comprehend "infinity." I managed to write down, during our discussion, the two defining sentences that I uttered (these freaking blew us away at the time, and one of my other friends didn't even believe I said it because it was so good): "There can be no starting points. If there are no starting points, then we can go wherever we want." Looking back, it obviously doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but then again, who knows?

EDIT: Didn't read the rest of the posts until now, but I guess I agree with Neruo in that I don't think humans can truly understand infinity, and that seems to be the source of a lot of problems.

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Originally Posted by 3FLryan

One time, when a friend and I were discussing this type of thing while high, I came to the conclusion that time is a circle, not a line that extends forever forwards and backwards, so there is no need for a begining or an ending, everywhere could be the begining or ending. Further, I postulated that time might be an actual 3-D space, like a sphere or something, and that we could move around time wherever we want if we could only truly realize what that meant and its implications. Anyway, the jist was that beginings and endings are made up by us because we can't truly comprehend "infinity." I managed to write down, during our discussion, the two defining sentences that I uttered (these freaking blew us away at the time, and one of my other friends didn't even believe I said it because it was so good): "There can be no starting points. If there are no starting points, then we can go wherever we want." Looking back, it obviously doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but then again, who knows?

EDIT: Didn't read the rest of the posts until now, but I guess I agree with Neruo in that I don't think humans can truly understand infinity, and that seems to be the source of a lot of problems.
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I also agree with you. I didn't got high while making it up, but I agree that time might very well be a circle of some sort. Like a circle in the 4th or 5th dimension, not an actual tangible circle of course :)

I also think, that the universe itself might be some sort of endless circle too. Like when you reach the 'end', you end up at the other.. end :) Only it would be more of some kind of sphere I guess.. But again, a sphere in a way we can't imagen truly, because it surpasses our dimensions.

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And about that sentence you wrote when high... I am sure it made a lot of sense at the time =)

Most of you are still stuck in causal thinking...Once you step outside it you realize...Time is a farce.
We are merely finite figments of collective imagination stuck in infinity.




zero and infinity are different degrees of the same value.

I liked that last post...
My theory : Infinity = non-existence (in the sense that something always existing is the same as if it had never existed...), can't really develop my theory though.....not right now anyway...

For ideas, May I suggest my thread... Are You Truely 'Self'-Aware?

I tend to believe that the collapse of the universe is in fact, what creates it in the first place. It gives birth to itself through it's own death in an endless cycle. It's the most logical explanation that I've read about and not so hard to believe when you accept that time is really just human perception of the physical laws of the universe.

Yea, I've thought about that alot too. I talked about that in 'The Eternal Now' thread. hehe...it's really not my intention to shamelessly plug my threads...just point you in the direction of what you were thinking already.

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Originally Posted by Neruo

-EDIT: In response to keepers spam that in this mind is proof for a god (just happens to be jehova): Black holes explode again after a while, and maybe the universe itself keeps big-banging. There is no reason why it couldn't. Energy doesn't leave the universe, the universe could move forever.
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how exactly can a Black hole explode? and what spam?

you also ignored what I asked: What happens if you go back billions of years? What was it like?

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Originally Posted by Keeper

how exactly can a Black hole explode? and what spam?[/b]

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I don't know, I just heard it can.

Even more interesting is the M-Theory: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-theory It is based on the string-theory, only better.

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you also ignored what I asked: What happens if you go back billions of years? What was it like?
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Before the big bang, there really isn't time as we know it. However Maybe as you pass that time-less zone there might be a previous universe that also resulted from a big-bang. However there are only theories, and it is silly to ask for facts about 10^102938 years ago.

okay, but it doesn't sound very logical ...

I've heard of M-theory, but I didn't know this much about it. Thanks :)

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Originally Posted by Keeper

okay, but it doesn't sound very logical ...

I've heard of M-theory, but I didn't know this much about it. Thanks :)
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You can't imagen the absence of time, why does that not surprise me. :)

no, I meant the black-hole bit. Time isn't an issue for me

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Originally Posted by Keeper

no, I meant the black-hole bit. Time isn't an issue for me
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Ah s'xuse me.

It's called Hawking radiation, here is the announcement from 2004 I just googled, when Hawking cracked the "black hole paradox". Looks like he also lost a bet (or so it says in the article) he had made in 1997. Oh, I wish I'd understand more physics, sounds interesting. :content: