Quote:
Originally Posted by Abra
Spoiler for The Inevitable Truth:
Some people can accept that it's a natural part of life that cannot yet be avoided.
How do you feel about it?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abra
Spoiler for The Inevitable Truth:
Some people can accept that it's a natural part of life that cannot yet be avoided.
How do you feel about it?
If I'm ever in an airplane that's about to crash, I'll let you know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Universal Mind
I'd say I'd have a healthy fear of death in the sense that I'll do what I need to do to stay alive, but the idea of it honestly doesn't bother me. If I experience some pain before death, I think I'd be okay with that, but I'd really hate having to suffer through chemotherapy or having some pervasive disorder that caused daily pain. I'd rather have it done and over with :)
I had a dream last year where I was going in to battle and I had to face the reality that I might actually die. I came to the conclusion that I was going to do what I set out to do and the fear of death melted away. I felt a serenity and resolve towards it that I rarely feel.
I'm more afraid of what comes in life than in death.
I'm fine with death. Of course, I am young. I am well-fed. =]Quote:
Originally Posted by Invader
Advocate.
Sounds like most people here are not afraid of death, isn't that interesting?
Yes. This is something I've thought about. Even so, I'm not afraid of death. I'm not afraid of no longer existing. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to die. I feel that I have so much more living to do. But am I afraid of the state of being that is death? No. Not at all. When I'm dead, I'm dead. That's it. End of story. Game over. I don't have anything to fear of that, because we are all going to die some day, and there is no use fearing something that is inherent in human nature. I'm very aware of the fact that I could walk outside my house tomorrow and get hit by a bus and die. If that happens, it happens. Oh well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Abra
Being afraid of death and being afraid of how you die are two completely different things. I'm afraid of the latter. Not wishing something upon myself and being afraid of that thing happening are, again, two completely different things. I'm afraid of experiencing a painful death. I'm not afraid of dying, though (aside from the subsequential factors I mentioned earlier).
Does being young and well-fed mean you are immune from dying in the next 3 hours?Quote:
Originally Posted by Abra
Would anybody like to go swimming?
http://dsc.discovery.com/sharks/shar...s-swimming.jpg
http://www.divester.com/media/2006/04/shark_surfer.jpg
Why can't anybody in this thread tell the truth? 90% of people have no fear of death? Jesus, it's nothing to be embarrassed about.
Everybody is terrified of death. This has been central to human motivation throughout history.
Just look at religion. Death is one of the main reasons that religion is so successful. Deluding oneself into thinking that death is not the end is extremely comforting for many people. The amount of doublethink here is amazing though: even though people think that it's true in the front of their minds, right at the back, they know it really isn't; otherwise they would be quite content to kill themselves and all of their loved ones in order to make their way to heaven.
Personally I can't stand any doublethinking, so I'm quite happy to tell you that there probably isn't anything after death. Neither am I afraid to say that I love life, and so obviously I am very afraid of the impending moment when my life ends.
What? (and that goes double for UM - notice there wasn't a single picture of someone dying peacefully in their sleep.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Xei
Where did the whole religious "I think there's something after death" argument even come into the conversation? (Maybe someone brought that up, but I must have missed it.)
How you are going to die is not guaranteed. If you think any of those pictures are scary, it is because you are afraid of death. Which of those animals or characters would you not be trying to get away from if you were right by them (Except for the spider... but how would you react if you saw it walking on your arm?) How fast would you be running or swimming? I bet your heart would be above 120 beats per minute, and I bet you would have a massive adrenaline rush if you were in any of those situations. Do you really think you wouldn't? It is explained by your fear of death.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
If you did not have a fear of death, you would already be dead.
Xei's point about religion is that religion is fueled by fear of death. Think about how enormous religion is in the human world.
Like UM said, it was an example to show how incredibly widespread and potent the fear of death is throughout the world.Quote:
What? (and that goes double for UM - notice there wasn't a single picture of someone dying peacefully in their sleep.)
Where did the whole religious "I think there's something after death" argument even come into the conversation? (Maybe someone brought that up, but I must have missed it.)
Anybody claiming no fear of death is defying the entirity of human history. It's just plain denial, this thread.
I'm not religious, so why would the religious argument mean anything to me. Of course relgion (and the fear of death) is massive. I'm not arguing that at all, but that would be a bit of a strawman, in my case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Universal Mind
Is there a difference between not wanting to die, and being afraid of death? I believe there is. I don't want to lose at the next game of darts I play, but I'm not afraid of it.
Bringing religion back into the argument: Many people are afraid of the "nothingness" which is death. The state of death. I thought that this is what the conversation was about. I'm not afraid of being dead. I just would rather not be, and I'll do whatever I can to stop it from happening. But so many people will make a spectacle about the "nothingness" that is death. Being dead. I don't feel there is anything to fear from that. One factor is that, I suppose, is having been here when my dad died. He died in his sleep, and I'm thankful everyday for that. He went without suffering. Without experiencing the death. One second here was here - the next he was gone. It was an uneventful transition.
In such a case, what, exactly, is there to be afraid of?
I don't fear death.
I fear leaving my loved ones here mourning over me.
It doesn't apply to you, but it proves that the vast majority of people are afraid of death.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
Going nuts and running/swimming for your life to get away from a school of sharks or a psycho killer goes way beyond merely sort of not wanting to die.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
Well, that's absolutely awful. I'm glad that if he had to die it was the best way possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
You can talk in logical terms about death and say it is painless and that you don't experience anything, but I don't think too many people ever are alive and in the face of death without being horrified. It is like going four days without eating and not being hungry. It just isn't human nature. I don't think it is even in the nature of any mammal at all. Even the bravest of war heroes and the most hardened of thugs show feelings of terror when facing death.
I would run, just as hard, away from a saw-blade that was aiming to chop off one of my legs, or rip through my shoulder and drop one of my arms to the floor. Even if I was told by some mystic, beforehand, that I wouldn't die, I'll be damned if I'm going to stand there and invite that sort of torture.Quote:
Originally Posted by Universal Mind
Base jumpersQuote:
Originally Posted by UM
Deep sea divers
Double Black Diamond skiers
Superbike racers
Dragracers
Sky divers
Motocross tricksters
Snake charmers
etc.
Are you saying that these people are all unaware of the fact that their trades are extremely dangerous? Or do you acknowledge that they understand that they could die at any moment, and yet they do what they do because their love for their trade trumps their not wanting to die?
If they had the intrinsinct(sp) horror of death that is so mammalian, would they do the things they do for fun?
[Edit]
Or (and I'm just trying to look at this from all angles) maybe it's just our own human arrogance that makes them think that they won't die, doing what they are doing? Hmm. I don't know. You would have to ask yourself how many other animals purposefully put themselves in harms way for sport. What do they gain out of it? I'm not going to say that there isn't some inherent fear of death that we all experience (even on a level that many of us aren't willing to admit) but I think the argument might be taking an evolutionarily "sound" stance toward an argument that humans sometimes do deviate from.[/Edit]
You would run because you would be afraid, right? It sounds like you are suggesting you are afraid of having limbs cut off and equally afraid of death. However, I don't think you would be as afraid if the threat of death was out of the picture.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
I love several of those things, but it is because I know (at least think I know) what I am doing. A lot of that stuff is safe if you know what you are doing, and the stuff that isn't is done by people who are crazy enough to think they know what they are doing. I once had a misunderstanding in the air while skydiving and thought I might be unable to land the right way, and it was terrifying. In all other skydiving moments, I trusted the parachute to do right just like I trust car brakes to do right. I don't ride motorcylces because I think it is too much of a gamble, but people who are into it think they have everything covered.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
Really? So if I was coming after you with a chainsaw and said that I was just going to take your hand off, and then immediately take you to the hospital so you can get treatment to stop you from bleeding to death, you'd just stand there at let me?Quote:
Originally Posted by Universal Mind
I don't think you can take someone's clear fear of suffering and then just automatically turn it into a fear of death.
I won't argue too much with that. I understand that many people who do those things think they have everything covered. I didn't really think about it until after my post. There or those, though, who do things that put themselve into the risk of certain death. Why? Because they feel that they have reason. There is something about the situation that they feel trumps that fear of death, and so they carry on. I don't think humans are the type of creatures that do what is "evolutionarily logical." We have so many things that give us reason to do the things we do, and feel the way we feel. In that, I feel, very strongly, that there are certain paradigms that give us cause to not fear death itself. I don't believe that everything is an automatic, foresee-able response. Reason is subjective, and doesn't always make sense to others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Universal Mind
I am afraid of the afterlife.. and i am afraid to have a painful death. but i will not be afraid OF it. i dont want it to happen, but it will happen eventually.. ready or not its coming.
I am definitely afraid of death...I don't dwell on it though. The fear doesn't paralyze me. I know there's no point in worrying about it. However, when I do think about death...I soon find myself not wanting to think about it anymore :lol:
I sure hope that when the time comes for me to face death, that, although I would certainly have fear, I would face it with courage...having not yet had such an experience, I don't know if I would have courage right now...maybe I would, maybe I wouldn't. I really don't know.
I sure as heck am not ready to die now though. I've got a looooooong life ahead of me (I hope) and I'm ready to live it!
I hope this post made sense...it was somewhat stream of consciousness.
Huh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
I didn't say anything about there not being a fear of losing limbs. I said it is not as extreme as the fear of death. I definitely would not trust a psycho with a chainsaw to take me to the hospital or not to kill me. I think I'm lost now. :?
You raised a good point. People don't necessarily sit around worrying about death. I have just been saying that the fear is somewhere in there and that it really comes out when we are in the face of death.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael Seoras
I want to add a few more things.
Maybe when I've lived my life, and I'm around 80 or 90 years old, I won't fear death...at least not as much.
Spoiler for spoiler for a pretty good Bette Davis movie, Dark Victory:
My point was that:Quote:
Originally Posted by Universal Mind
...you implied an inherent connection between my fearing the mutilation of said chainsaw and being "equally afraid of death," when there was none in my example.Quote:
Originally Posted by Universal Mind
But, the more I am willing to concede to the fact that I don't want to die, the more I wonder how that distaste for death could be interpreted as fear. With that, I wonder if this is really a debate that would come down to "well, you don't want to die, so that means you're afraid of it." It would be a war of words that there would really be no proof for or against.
Speaking of the end of "egoic" life as death, rather than "physical cessation", I believe in it. But I still find it hard to admit that I am not afraid of it, because I have yet to Realize what other great Sages have, and that is "I am not the ego, and I live forever in Spirit."
Along with those pictures you posted, you're really just asking the question of a "painful death," which is not death itself. Everybody is afraid of pain and suffering, because of what it is and because it is related to death. It may be somewhat blurry as whether we are afraid of suffering or death, because they can both be inherently related in our imagination.Quote:
Originally Posted by Universal Mind
Do you have any good examples of this "double-think"? You might not know, but contrary to popular belief, there are some very devoted people who are willing to sacrifice their lives for God, but that is not to be confused with the willing for suicide.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xei
Nothing! "Death" itself is an imaginary "stop" point, likewise related to "birth" as an imaginary "start" point. Do we all seriously believe that our very life came out of nothing and will become nothing, as it appears? Is it possible for anything to become nothing, or the other way around?Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
Life will simply take different forms, as other forms "die", others are "born". This is known as transformation, and it is evident in the laws of energy. Since you are part of the Universe, you cannot escape it. So whether you like living or not, you cannot escape it either. But if you identify with the body, you will suffer its consequences and natural vicissitudes.
I have mixed emotions about dying.
Because of my religious beliefs, if I was to die today, I would simply cease to exist. There would be no resurrection for me. I know the truth about God and I comitted myself, in vow and heart, to do His will for the rest of my life... and yet I am rebelling and am in a spiritually disapproved state.
I'm afraid of ceasing to exist forever, of being forgotten though I've done nothing significant to be remembered by, and I'm also afraid of not finding out how the story of this humanity ends and begins again.
When I get back on my spiritual feet, there is nothing to fear with death. The Bible likens death to a state of sleep or inactivity. If you're in God's memory, he'll resurrect you. So I don't see death as "the end" but only as a pause.
But I do fear pain. I fear a death like Isaiah who is believed to have been "sawn asunder". I fear torture and the torture of my loved ones. I also fear what would become of my children if I was to die while they're still young.
I've frequently been suicidal though, so I also see death as a bittersweet means of escape and a blessed rest of nothingness.
You said you would run just as fast if you were being chased by a limb mutilator as you would if you were running from a killer. I said that made it sound like you were suggesting that you are equally afraid of the two. Then I said I think you would feel more fear while running from the killler even if you were running just as fast.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
So, if you were swimming in Florida water and looked down and noticed that school of hammerheads you would just think, "Hmmm, I don't really want to die. Wow, it's a pretty day."? I think you would be thinking, ":shock: AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:shock:"Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
As for me: I looked in the water while on a raft in Pensacola one time and saw a nurse shark, thinking it was some kind of baby shark or something, and I was so petrified I didn't even put my hands in the water to swim back to the shore. I just let the waves take me in.
I don't think fear of pain is the dominant fear when it comes to those pictures. If Mrs. Bates has a reputation for going straight to the brain with the knife, she is still just as scary, if not scarier. I don't think you even feel a Black Widow bite, but they are still plenty freaky.Quote:
Originally Posted by really