http://www.freewebs.com/spimission/e...spi_normal.gif Nope.
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I'm not afraid of death. I'm afraid of suffering before my death; leaving my daughter without her father; and leaving my mother with both her husband and her only son gone.
But as far as death, itself.....eh. Doesn't bother me all that much.
Fear no,
I use to invite it, cheat it. Even kissed it.
Man has a dark side. It's called stupidity.
Now I don't wish for death, I'll just wait until it comes. I don't try to imagine what it's like. Just hope to go-with-the-flow when it knocks on the door for me.
I think about death sometimes, i'm not scared OF it, i am more scared of the fear you can get. Thinking "oh no i am gonna die, this can't be, not now", and get that fear that takes you over COMPLETLY. Sometimes when i think of dieing, i start to say "i don't wanna die or i'll miss *insert thing you will miss here*, and i don't wanna miss it". For me the NHL trade deadline passed so i don't wanna die because i wanna see how my Pittsburgh Penguins will do with their new players.
The more one associates oneSelf, or "I", with this (body)..
The more one will see fear well up within
I was dead for a longgggg time before I was conceived. I never suffered any inconveniences. As far as I'm concerned, LIFE is the inconvenience, but the fact that I understand that and am able to experience it makes me want to live. To answer your question on a more direct note, I am most certainly not afraid of death. At all.
death will be
I can say, back in the day I used to stare death in the face and laugh but something has happened over years, (I've Matured) I can honestly say I'm not afraid to go when it's my time, but I'm in the same position as Oneironaut. I'm more afraid of leaving my daughter without her father and my wife without her hubby. The rest of the world outside of my family I could care less about when it's my time to go.
Does it really matter if you're afraid of death? It comes regardless.
Well, I certainly don't look forward to it. But real fear, felt it only once when I tried to imagine being dead. Never since, but never thought about it that vividly.
I have a question. Why do half of comments here speak about challenging death multiple times? What are you people, action heroes?
If you are on an airplane that you know for a fact is about to crash, you are going to be terrified. I don't think anybody is above that. Everybody is afraid of death.
It's easy to say no right now. You have to be in a slightly altered state of conscience of really experience the fear of it.
Next time you're falling asleep... think about death, what could be, how could be, and see just how quickly you pop awake. :?
I look forward to death.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy life, but I want to know what happens after life.
Yes..
I don't want to suffer as I'm dying.
I don't know what's going to happen to me after I've died.
Pretty much the whole "fear of the unknown" thing..
Im much more afraid of the suffering that happens before death than death itself. I am fairly certain there is at least something after death. but the thought of all my conciousness just disappearing...that does scare me too if I think about it too much.
Death is a state of being (or not being, depending) that occurs at the moment life is ended. I am not afraid of whatever is to come after my life ends (which is the equivalent to saying I do not fear death).
Dying, on the other hand, is the actual act of ending life, which I'm sure is not going to be particularly pleasant unless I'm one of the lucky ones who can die instantaneously in an explosion or quietly in my sleep. The number one factor that would be worrying me the most during this state is for how my friends and family would react. I hate the thought of them being hurt over something like the death of a loved one, but it's something that can't be avoided. Nevertheless, I'll be sure to make a list of epic songs for them to play at my funeral, and I'll let those closest to me know that they ought to wear something a little more cheerful for the ceremony. I want people to be happy when I die, in a peaceful sort of way. That makes the actual prospect of dying easier for me. The death that comes afterwards, I imagine, would be peaceful anyways. But those are just my personal feelings.
I'm far less afraid of death than of not dying. There are several things that could happen if I die: afterlife, reincarnation, nothingness. I hate pain, I hate being unable to move, falling, damage. If I'm falling, and have time to think, I don't worry about dying; I worry about the falling feeling, then any injuries. Not dying is infinitely scarier for me than death. A lifetime of pain, or paralysis, or even spending the rest of eternity waiting for my final moment to end. I'm not afraid of death. (Note: I also don't welcome death. If I die, I die, but I'll keep living until something else kills me.)
Not in the least bit, I think it's WAY over exxadurated.
I asked my friend, "What do you think of the afterlife?"
"Irrelevant," she simply replied. I never asked again.
In this thread, methinks there is too much apathy toward death. It's death. You're fucking dead. Why worry about it, you ask? Opposite of survival. Life continues to strive for permanence in this universe. What do you think about that poetic struggle, those of you on computers (multiple computers! Internet!), in your comfy top 1% of the human population... What do you think about that?
Devil's.
No, I don't fear death as I have no reason to believe it won't be identical to how it was before I was born. And that wasn't bad at all.
The only thing that worries me, aside from those who remain suffering is that the process of dying might well be unpleasant, depending on how lucky or unlucky I am.
This does all of course, not mean I want to die either. But I did accept the fact I would die long ago, and given how inevitable it is, there seems little point worrying much.
I don't fear death. The only reason I dislike death is because of my family and loved ones, as Oneironaut said. But I accept it, for I have seen many close ones bite the dust, and it reassures me to know that I moved on with my life and that I keep them alive in my mind. I suspect others will do the same for me. So it's really not all that bad.
Thing is though, for some stupid reason I tend to enjoy doing things that involve death as a worse case scenario. But I do it because it makes me fight for my survival. That gets me high. I like the fact that death is there waiting, if one makes a mistake. It makes you stronger to confront it and it makes you appreciate life when you get a taste of it.
Plus, as others have mentioned in this thread, who isn't extremely curious and excited to find out what happens afterwards? I'll be glad if I just stop being and my body feeds the earth, but boy...am I going to be fucking stoked if there is more! :D
I have no fear of death, just the suffering before it as others have said. People who have been clinically dead have never reported anything that was bad as far as I know.
I look forward to a rest away from all of life's troubles, but I have things to get done before then.
If I do have a fear of death it is not because I don't want to admit it, it is because it is unvolentary. Like a panic attack even though you know nothing is wrong you still panic because chemicals are being mass produced in the brain through a physical instinct to stay alive.
If I'm ever in an airplane that's about to crash, I'll let you know.
I'd say I'd have a healthy fear of death in the sense that I'll do what I need to do to stay alive, but the idea of it honestly doesn't bother me. If I experience some pain before death, I think I'd be okay with that, but I'd really hate having to suffer through chemotherapy or having some pervasive disorder that caused daily pain. I'd rather have it done and over with :)
I had a dream last year where I was going in to battle and I had to face the reality that I might actually die. I came to the conclusion that I was going to do what I set out to do and the fear of death melted away. I felt a serenity and resolve towards it that I rarely feel.
I'm more afraid of what comes in life than in death.
Sounds like most people here are not afraid of death, isn't that interesting?
Yes. This is something I've thought about. Even so, I'm not afraid of death. I'm not afraid of no longer existing. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to die. I feel that I have so much more living to do. But am I afraid of the state of being that is death? No. Not at all. When I'm dead, I'm dead. That's it. End of story. Game over. I don't have anything to fear of that, because we are all going to die some day, and there is no use fearing something that is inherent in human nature. I'm very aware of the fact that I could walk outside my house tomorrow and get hit by a bus and die. If that happens, it happens. Oh well.
Being afraid of death and being afraid of how you die are two completely different things. I'm afraid of the latter. Not wishing something upon myself and being afraid of that thing happening are, again, two completely different things. I'm afraid of experiencing a painful death. I'm not afraid of dying, though (aside from the subsequential factors I mentioned earlier).
Does being young and well-fed mean you are immune from dying in the next 3 hours?
Would anybody like to go swimming?
http://dsc.discovery.com/sharks/shar...s-swimming.jpg
http://www.divester.com/media/2006/04/shark_surfer.jpg
Why can't anybody in this thread tell the truth? 90% of people have no fear of death? Jesus, it's nothing to be embarrassed about.
Everybody is terrified of death. This has been central to human motivation throughout history.
Just look at religion. Death is one of the main reasons that religion is so successful. Deluding oneself into thinking that death is not the end is extremely comforting for many people. The amount of doublethink here is amazing though: even though people think that it's true in the front of their minds, right at the back, they know it really isn't; otherwise they would be quite content to kill themselves and all of their loved ones in order to make their way to heaven.
Personally I can't stand any doublethinking, so I'm quite happy to tell you that there probably isn't anything after death. Neither am I afraid to say that I love life, and so obviously I am very afraid of the impending moment when my life ends.
What? (and that goes double for UM - notice there wasn't a single picture of someone dying peacefully in their sleep.)
Where did the whole religious "I think there's something after death" argument even come into the conversation? (Maybe someone brought that up, but I must have missed it.)
How you are going to die is not guaranteed. If you think any of those pictures are scary, it is because you are afraid of death. Which of those animals or characters would you not be trying to get away from if you were right by them (Except for the spider... but how would you react if you saw it walking on your arm?) How fast would you be running or swimming? I bet your heart would be above 120 beats per minute, and I bet you would have a massive adrenaline rush if you were in any of those situations. Do you really think you wouldn't? It is explained by your fear of death.
If you did not have a fear of death, you would already be dead.
Xei's point about religion is that religion is fueled by fear of death. Think about how enormous religion is in the human world.
Like UM said, it was an example to show how incredibly widespread and potent the fear of death is throughout the world.Quote:
What? (and that goes double for UM - notice there wasn't a single picture of someone dying peacefully in their sleep.)
Where did the whole religious "I think there's something after death" argument even come into the conversation? (Maybe someone brought that up, but I must have missed it.)
Anybody claiming no fear of death is defying the entirity of human history. It's just plain denial, this thread.
I'm not religious, so why would the religious argument mean anything to me. Of course relgion (and the fear of death) is massive. I'm not arguing that at all, but that would be a bit of a strawman, in my case.
Is there a difference between not wanting to die, and being afraid of death? I believe there is. I don't want to lose at the next game of darts I play, but I'm not afraid of it.
Bringing religion back into the argument: Many people are afraid of the "nothingness" which is death. The state of death. I thought that this is what the conversation was about. I'm not afraid of being dead. I just would rather not be, and I'll do whatever I can to stop it from happening. But so many people will make a spectacle about the "nothingness" that is death. Being dead. I don't feel there is anything to fear from that. One factor is that, I suppose, is having been here when my dad died. He died in his sleep, and I'm thankful everyday for that. He went without suffering. Without experiencing the death. One second here was here - the next he was gone. It was an uneventful transition.
In such a case, what, exactly, is there to be afraid of?
I don't fear death.
I fear leaving my loved ones here mourning over me.
It doesn't apply to you, but it proves that the vast majority of people are afraid of death.
Going nuts and running/swimming for your life to get away from a school of sharks or a psycho killer goes way beyond merely sort of not wanting to die.
Well, that's absolutely awful. I'm glad that if he had to die it was the best way possible.
You can talk in logical terms about death and say it is painless and that you don't experience anything, but I don't think too many people ever are alive and in the face of death without being horrified. It is like going four days without eating and not being hungry. It just isn't human nature. I don't think it is even in the nature of any mammal at all. Even the bravest of war heroes and the most hardened of thugs show feelings of terror when facing death.
I would run, just as hard, away from a saw-blade that was aiming to chop off one of my legs, or rip through my shoulder and drop one of my arms to the floor. Even if I was told by some mystic, beforehand, that I wouldn't die, I'll be damned if I'm going to stand there and invite that sort of torture.
Base jumpersQuote:
Originally Posted by UM
Deep sea divers
Double Black Diamond skiers
Superbike racers
Dragracers
Sky divers
Motocross tricksters
Snake charmers
etc.
Are you saying that these people are all unaware of the fact that their trades are extremely dangerous? Or do you acknowledge that they understand that they could die at any moment, and yet they do what they do because their love for their trade trumps their not wanting to die?
If they had the intrinsinct(sp) horror of death that is so mammalian, would they do the things they do for fun?
[Edit]
Or (and I'm just trying to look at this from all angles) maybe it's just our own human arrogance that makes them think that they won't die, doing what they are doing? Hmm. I don't know. You would have to ask yourself how many other animals purposefully put themselves in harms way for sport. What do they gain out of it? I'm not going to say that there isn't some inherent fear of death that we all experience (even on a level that many of us aren't willing to admit) but I think the argument might be taking an evolutionarily "sound" stance toward an argument that humans sometimes do deviate from.[/Edit]
You would run because you would be afraid, right? It sounds like you are suggesting you are afraid of having limbs cut off and equally afraid of death. However, I don't think you would be as afraid if the threat of death was out of the picture.
I love several of those things, but it is because I know (at least think I know) what I am doing. A lot of that stuff is safe if you know what you are doing, and the stuff that isn't is done by people who are crazy enough to think they know what they are doing. I once had a misunderstanding in the air while skydiving and thought I might be unable to land the right way, and it was terrifying. In all other skydiving moments, I trusted the parachute to do right just like I trust car brakes to do right. I don't ride motorcylces because I think it is too much of a gamble, but people who are into it think they have everything covered.
Really? So if I was coming after you with a chainsaw and said that I was just going to take your hand off, and then immediately take you to the hospital so you can get treatment to stop you from bleeding to death, you'd just stand there at let me?
I don't think you can take someone's clear fear of suffering and then just automatically turn it into a fear of death.
I won't argue too much with that. I understand that many people who do those things think they have everything covered. I didn't really think about it until after my post. There or those, though, who do things that put themselve into the risk of certain death. Why? Because they feel that they have reason. There is something about the situation that they feel trumps that fear of death, and so they carry on. I don't think humans are the type of creatures that do what is "evolutionarily logical." We have so many things that give us reason to do the things we do, and feel the way we feel. In that, I feel, very strongly, that there are certain paradigms that give us cause to not fear death itself. I don't believe that everything is an automatic, foresee-able response. Reason is subjective, and doesn't always make sense to others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Universal Mind
I am afraid of the afterlife.. and i am afraid to have a painful death. but i will not be afraid OF it. i dont want it to happen, but it will happen eventually.. ready or not its coming.
I am definitely afraid of death...I don't dwell on it though. The fear doesn't paralyze me. I know there's no point in worrying about it. However, when I do think about death...I soon find myself not wanting to think about it anymore :lol:
I sure hope that when the time comes for me to face death, that, although I would certainly have fear, I would face it with courage...having not yet had such an experience, I don't know if I would have courage right now...maybe I would, maybe I wouldn't. I really don't know.
I sure as heck am not ready to die now though. I've got a looooooong life ahead of me (I hope) and I'm ready to live it!
I hope this post made sense...it was somewhat stream of consciousness.
Huh?
I didn't say anything about there not being a fear of losing limbs. I said it is not as extreme as the fear of death. I definitely would not trust a psycho with a chainsaw to take me to the hospital or not to kill me. I think I'm lost now. :?
You raised a good point. People don't necessarily sit around worrying about death. I have just been saying that the fear is somewhere in there and that it really comes out when we are in the face of death.
I want to add a few more things.
Maybe when I've lived my life, and I'm around 80 or 90 years old, I won't fear death...at least not as much.
Spoiler for spoiler for a pretty good Bette Davis movie, Dark Victory:
My point was that:
...you implied an inherent connection between my fearing the mutilation of said chainsaw and being "equally afraid of death," when there was none in my example.
But, the more I am willing to concede to the fact that I don't want to die, the more I wonder how that distaste for death could be interpreted as fear. With that, I wonder if this is really a debate that would come down to "well, you don't want to die, so that means you're afraid of it." It would be a war of words that there would really be no proof for or against.
Speaking of the end of "egoic" life as death, rather than "physical cessation", I believe in it. But I still find it hard to admit that I am not afraid of it, because I have yet to Realize what other great Sages have, and that is "I am not the ego, and I live forever in Spirit."
Along with those pictures you posted, you're really just asking the question of a "painful death," which is not death itself. Everybody is afraid of pain and suffering, because of what it is and because it is related to death. It may be somewhat blurry as whether we are afraid of suffering or death, because they can both be inherently related in our imagination.
Do you have any good examples of this "double-think"? You might not know, but contrary to popular belief, there are some very devoted people who are willing to sacrifice their lives for God, but that is not to be confused with the willing for suicide.
Nothing! "Death" itself is an imaginary "stop" point, likewise related to "birth" as an imaginary "start" point. Do we all seriously believe that our very life came out of nothing and will become nothing, as it appears? Is it possible for anything to become nothing, or the other way around?
Life will simply take different forms, as other forms "die", others are "born". This is known as transformation, and it is evident in the laws of energy. Since you are part of the Universe, you cannot escape it. So whether you like living or not, you cannot escape it either. But if you identify with the body, you will suffer its consequences and natural vicissitudes.
I have mixed emotions about dying.
Because of my religious beliefs, if I was to die today, I would simply cease to exist. There would be no resurrection for me. I know the truth about God and I comitted myself, in vow and heart, to do His will for the rest of my life... and yet I am rebelling and am in a spiritually disapproved state.
I'm afraid of ceasing to exist forever, of being forgotten though I've done nothing significant to be remembered by, and I'm also afraid of not finding out how the story of this humanity ends and begins again.
When I get back on my spiritual feet, there is nothing to fear with death. The Bible likens death to a state of sleep or inactivity. If you're in God's memory, he'll resurrect you. So I don't see death as "the end" but only as a pause.
But I do fear pain. I fear a death like Isaiah who is believed to have been "sawn asunder". I fear torture and the torture of my loved ones. I also fear what would become of my children if I was to die while they're still young.
I've frequently been suicidal though, so I also see death as a bittersweet means of escape and a blessed rest of nothingness.
You said you would run just as fast if you were being chased by a limb mutilator as you would if you were running from a killer. I said that made it sound like you were suggesting that you are equally afraid of the two. Then I said I think you would feel more fear while running from the killler even if you were running just as fast.
So, if you were swimming in Florida water and looked down and noticed that school of hammerheads you would just think, "Hmmm, I don't really want to die. Wow, it's a pretty day."? I think you would be thinking, ":shock: AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:shock:"
As for me: I looked in the water while on a raft in Pensacola one time and saw a nurse shark, thinking it was some kind of baby shark or something, and I was so petrified I didn't even put my hands in the water to swim back to the shore. I just let the waves take me in.
I don't think fear of pain is the dominant fear when it comes to those pictures. If Mrs. Bates has a reputation for going straight to the brain with the knife, she is still just as scary, if not scarier. I don't think you even feel a Black Widow bite, but they are still plenty freaky.
What I want to know is, who is afraid of eating shit?
UM, lol! I had a similar experience.
When I lived in Pensacola, FL I was swimming and went too far out, not paying attention.
I looked under me and I saw a shark. I swam to the shore as fast as my frog paddle would allow- both above water and under somewhat (I swim best completely under water). I was SO terrified. My dad and boyfriend nearly swam out to me thinking I was drowning lol
In retrospect, I concluded it was most likely a nurse shark that meant me no harm... but I was never very fond of the ocean after that :lol:
Please bear in mind that "death" and "dying" are two different things.
Dying is the process.
Death is what comes after the process of dying is complete.
I think the pictures posted by UM illustrate a fear of dying due to the pain, not due to the death that comes afterwards.
Dying can be made painful or painless.
Death is something we currently no little to nothing about (besides the fact that our bodies are kaput).
So the title of the thread is asking if you are afraid of the hereafter (or not-hereafter depending on what you do or do not believe in), not about whether you fear the method that gets you there.
Well invader in that case I still do not fear death nor do I fear dying. For dying, it's utterly pointless to be scared, it WILL happen to everyone. As for what happens after death, who cares? If there is an after life okay awesome! If there is "nothingness" then meh, who gives a crap? You won't care, you won't have thoughts, emotions, or people pissing you off so it's the most peaceful idea ever. I guess you could say I am pretty laid back towards death, I see it as a good thing.
Ah yeah, I know what you mean. Fear is self-created, in the end. And our minds can intensify and create suffering from pain, but we can also ease it.
Well that is pretty disgusting. The main reason one wouldn't want to do that is because "shit" is made up of all the things one wanted to dispose of to begin with, and nothing but that. :D
Exactly. :goodjob2:
Of course I would be running from the killer. He's got a knife, he's going to hack and slash me to death. I don't want to experience that. I'm afraid of experiencing that. Definitely not the way I want to go. Am I "afraid" of (as Invader said) the hereafter? No.
Again, getting torn limb from limb by a school of hammerhead sharks is nothing that anybody is going to just welcome - myself included.Quote:
Originally Posted by UM
You seem to be missing my point. :?
I'm afraid of how I die. Yes. Deathly afraid (no pun intended). But the concept of death doesn't scare me the way that most people that get into existential discussions about it illustrate. The "nothingness" doesn't scare me, and I have no fear of "Hell". Here's another way of putting it:
I've always said (and I will always say) that when I get to a point where I can't take care of myself (due to an accident or old age), and I have to depend on others to assist me in my most basic functions, I really don't want to live that way. I would welcome a painless death. I'd be ready to go. For many other people, the simple idea of death would have them terrified, and keep them hanging on for as long as was possible. It is that sense of death that I'm not afraid of. Get it over with. Just put me out of my misery.
That is a stark difference from a school of hammerhead sharks, which are going to eat you alive. I'm terrified of that. I have a pretty heavy fear of open water, for that very reason.
Zhaylin, welcome to the club. :lol: However, I love the ocean way too much to not swim in it, but I do look around for sharks a lot.
Everybody else, it is not just pain that freaks you out about those pictures. It is your innate fear of death. You aren't simply going, "Woes, Mrs. Bates... that would just hurt." You are thinking, ":shock:," because your brain recognizes it as something that would end your life. That mechanism keeps you alive. Without it, you would die. Are you afraid of lethal doses of heroin? If Herschel Walker (world class sprinter and running back) was chasing you with a lethal dose of heroin in a needle with an anaesthetic on the end of it to prevent you from feeling the stick, and you knew all of that, you would still be pissing in your pants, not because of fear of pain, obviously. If you were on an airplane and found out there was an enormous bomb on it, a bomb you would not even have time to feel, you would be petrified. Would you not?
It would still wig you out. I know some people commit suicide, but that is because life freaks them out more than death, not because death does not freak them out.
THANK YOU!Quote:
Please bear in mind that "death" and "dying" are two different things.
Dying is the process.
Death is what comes after the process of dying is complete.
http://www.freewebs.com/spimission/e...spi_normal.gif Most people are afraid of death because of several reasons. Most of them, because of attachment reasons. When you reach death, you would have the thought of not accomplishing goals or not experiencing what comes in your life. And losing pretty much everything.
http://www.freewebs.com/spimission/e...pi_apathic.gif For my goals not being accomplished, bah, whatever!
http://www.freewebs.com/spimission/e...spi_wonder.gif The way I see death is that it isn't the end of everything for me. But a fresh start or a new beginning. And to experience the mystery of death. I would say death is just another way of life expressing itself.
http://www.freewebs.com/spimission/e...dventurous.gif If death is the state when you reach "nothingness" and end up as nothing, then ok. CEASE TO EXIST!!! WOOOOOOHOOOO I don't really care, lol.
http://www.freewebs.com/spimission/e.../spi_angry.gif For dying...
I need to die epically. EPICALLY. Die as a hero, a kind of hero who opens his eyes to everything and risks his life for others and himself!! YEAH!!
*KABOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM*
http://www.freewebs.com/spimission/e...pi_fainted.gif
I am not afraid of life ending. I am afraid of the numerous very bad ways I may go out, and I am afraid that my absence on the earth may bring pain or inconvenience or loneliness to my loved ones. Besides that, I don't fear death in the slightest.
It's like rollercoasters. I was on a rollercoaster the other day and I was MISERABLE. When I got off and my friends were making fun of how scared I am they were like, "It really is scary because it feels like you're falling out and you're going to die!" and I was like "... I wasn't afraid of death, I just can't stand that falling feeling. I was actually kind of hoping I would fly out and die so that I wouldn't have to fall anymore!"
Same when I went scuba diving. I went down to dive with the sharks, because I was so miserable and seasick on the surface that I felt like if a shark ate me, it would be a relatively cool way to die and I'd no longer be seasick. (I was also too seasick to process how much shark bites would hurt ;))
I dunno. I guess if your argument hinges on "you have to be afraid of death because you have an innate fear of death," then there's nothing I can say to argue that. I don't want to die, but I don't believe I'm afraid of "death," itself. Maybe I interpret the meaning of the OP differently. Many people are afraid of the state of "death." I don't believe I am. Sure, I am fiercely opposed to this life that I'm enjoying just stopping. Who wouldn't be? If that's the "fear" you want to ascribe it to, then so be it. I've explained plenty of times the "death" I was interpreting the OP as to mean (the nothingness, the void, etc) and I still don't believe I'm afraid of it. I am opposed to it.
Does a fighter have an innate/unyielding fear of his opponent?
That is the way I see "death." I oppose it. I will fight it to my last breath, but I'm not afraid of it. What I'm actually afraid of is suffering.
This thread has made me do a lot of thinking.
If I was on a plane that was about to crash, I'm pretty sure I would embrace death peacefully.
If I was falling from the roof of a tall building I would be absolutely terrified.
Maybe it's fear of perceived pain or suffering that wigs me out most of all.
I think intellectually, I'm not afraid of what will happen to me when I die.
Instinctually and physically, I am of course very afraid.
I am not afraid, It's just depressing what will happen to my loved ones when I die.
Spoiler for Image:
What's that?
may be
Nope.
i'm afraid of dying before the grand finale of LOST.
im afraid of pain, me weak. I wouldn't want a physically painful death. I don't want my death to be a tragedy. Let me die in my sleep, the way it was meant to be.
I'm afraid of dying before my parents, most especially. Leaving my sisters and friends behind. I don't want to put anyone through that kind of pain.
I'm afraid of dying before experiencing that which I want to experience in life. Or that which I'm supposed to experience
but I think really..im more worried for my parents. Sometimes I like to imagine a bomb kills me and everyone I know :eek: this way no one has to suffer seperation. . . yay!
People are just afraid because of what they think. :D
Is anyone afraid of thoughts?
http://www.freewebs.com/spimission/e...spi_wonder.gif Really, I really like you a lot!!
thoughts scare the shit out of people all the time..we call it anxiety attack :eek:
Really, that was an interesting statement. I guess most of us are ultimatly scared of our thoughts. Sometimes the case is different though. Like compare one person who is afraid of turantulas and another who is afraid of dying. The person who's scared of turantulas may NEVER have to encounter one...EVER. For someone afraid of death, they obviously will have to encounter it one day. The person who is afraid of turantulas and never encounters one from the beggining to the end of their life was ultimatly just scared of their thoughts.
Am i afraid of death?
No. I'm too convinced that there is absolutely something after death.
The stories I've heard about astral projection and the drug salvia, nope.
I'm getting more into that spiritual stuff about love and compassion. And fear is something that will bring you down or whatever. I can't really type it out the way i want.
I was robbed yesterday at gunpoint in a car by someone i know. I gave him the 20 dollars that was in my hand, and had 80 more dollars in my pocket, but after giving him the 20 i got out of the car and ran. I knew he could have shot me in the back of the head, but i really didn't care, i just ran and if he would have shot me oh well....guess it was my time.
It may have been the fact that i was drunk and high as hell, or that i knew the guy that did it ( he wasn't even wearing a mask ) . I dunno, but in no way was i scared at all. Just fuckin mad as hell when i got away.
I don't fear anything, especially death. I don't know why i wasn't scared a single bit...mabe because all of the shit i read on astral projection, lucid dreaming, OOB's, etc. shit like that lol
Your anger could've masked any fear.
Several years ago I was driving our RV from West Virginia to Maine for an auction. I took a wrong turn somewhere in Ohio. As I approached a very high overpass, I could see people on it, though it was very dark outside. Seconds later, my windshield was smashed and I had glass on my face and lap. I realized then that the people had thrown something off the overpass on my vehicle. I was absolutely FURIOUS! I wanted to turn around and run them over. Hubby was asleep in the back bedroom and I couldn't rouse him, so I pulled off at a Hotel to wake him and tell him what happened.
While it was happening, I was too angry to be scared. A cop found us and said they were looking for the group because they had damaged several vehicles. I never learned if they were caught or if any of their victims were injured.
After that, though, I was afraid of driving under overpasses for awhile because my mind easily remembered the incident. If their aim had been just a tad better I would have been killed.
That sucks about you being robbed. I hope you turned in the guy who did it.
I don't know, it was kind of like instinct when i ran away. Plus i had 80 dollars and illegal substances on me, and did not want to give that up. It was 3 other guys in the car and they could have easily jumped me, and took all of my shit.
My point is i could have sat there and tried him, and had been shot, but it just was like common sense to get out and run.
But I'm not afraid of actual death. Sometimes when i read about astral projection i kind of look forward to it ( Not suicidal or anything ) if that makes any kind of sense.
Who knows, could have been the weed and alcohol lol, because i damn sure thought about smacking the gun out of his hand while handing him that 20 bucks, but thought about it.
L I E S. I -personally- am NOT afraid of death. I am afraid of dying in a very, very bad way. Like drowning, imagine this,
You're being held underwater, you can't get up. You try to hold your breath but you can't for much longer. Eventually, you have to breathe, you try, but all you can suck in is water, it's clogging your lungs you're blacking out, You're suffering, You're confused, All you can do is just give up and sink into the water.
Or maybe suicide, leaving behind everything, just to go to something unknown. Anyway, I do not fear death.
Also, is anyone else like me?? I don't WANT to die, but I don't CARE if I die.
I'm afraid of how I will die. If I suddenly had a massive heart attack or stroke, everything being stripped away from me so suddenly, the pain...That scares me. I've always hoped I'd die in my sleep so I wouldn't have to face it while being conscious.
My experience with panic attacks have made me realize that I am afraid of death. I mean, the first time I had one I thought I was dying for sure, I was scared shitless. I suppose I'm more afraid of the transition from life to death but afterwards I probably won't care at all...Just like I didn't care that I didn't exist before I existed.
"Various medical authorities swarm in and out of here predicting I have between two days and two months to live. I think they are guessing. I remain cheerful and unimpressed. I look forward without dogmatic optimism but without dread. I love you all and I deeply implore you to keep the lasagna flying. Please pardon my levity, I don't see how to take death seriously. It seems absurd." -Robert Anton Wilson
Uhhh, no.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drowning
That's just what some people said.
Still wouldn't be my choice, mainly because it does sound very nasty.
On the other hand, what said people reported was, that it was bad,
but the moment they released tension and breathed in all the water
was just a huge releaf and they weren't conncted to their bodys
anymore and all that stuff. So they didn't really feel all that awful stuff
the body went through.
I'd imainge that being like, if you experience a certain amount of pain,
the body just shuts off - if you experience a certain amount of air-loss
it does as well. Self-Protection. (A nice thought btw)
That one dude said, he'd choose drowning again.
(When he did, I was like "..mhm... really?")
Exactly.
I am pretty positive that the people saying they are not afraid of death would be having their record anxiety attacks while looking at a needle that is about to lethally inject them even though it doesn't really hurt physically. I have never heard of anybody not wigging out in that situation.
Hell yeah I'm afraid of death. It's instinct and I would do ALMOST anything to avoid dying. I'm obviously not as afraid as most people though, becuase I've done way more stupid shit.
The people that act hard and say they are not afraid, are the biggest pussies when there's a gun pointed at their head. Trust me. =P
I've 'died' twice and they were probably the most intense experiences of my life.
If there was a gun by my head I would be freaked but not too freaked because, like I said, I don't want to die, but I don't care if I die.
On the day... Not afraid... On the night... afraid for most things.
I was really scared before. My fear is the unknown. My worst nightmare is if I just simply stoped excist. If I knew there was something after I wouldn't be scared at all.
But I just want something to be there. Now I'm more possitive it will happend something. Sure I would be afraid if some1 threated to kill me but atm no.
the experience of death is unknown. therefore one must fear death, whether you fear it a lot or just a little.
if anyone does not understand my statement, or disagrees, please reply. I would be glad to explain/argue :)
I wonder what death would be like.
At 133pm and 34 seconds in i am laughing
At 133pm and 35 seconds in i am dreaming
At 139pm or so..i am not dreaming, i am dead...
If you get shot in the brain
At 133pm and 34 seconds in i am laughing
At 133pm and 35 seconds in i am non existant
I am afraid of dying before I procreate.
Halucinations happen alot of times at the moment of death, or at death. Heard of NDE's? It may not be why people are afraid of death, but it ties to death.
So, you admit you are a troll?Quote:
and no im not following you, ur just pretty good at making ridiculous posts that i just have to reply.
ur rite it does tie to death. but not this topic which is the fear of death. im just trying to understand why u said it if it was irelevant
no im not a troll i was just frustrated that u thought i was following u :P
No, I'm excited for it. Death is the most mysterious thing and either my soul will stop existing in which case I couldn't be able to care. OR something really different from my every day life would happen: the discovery of the afterlife. Don't get me wrong. i want to stay alive for as long as I can. Dying might seperate me from the people I love which is what I hate, however, even if I don't die, they will die, ending up in seperation anyways. Dying is obligatory so why not?
Yes, very much so.
The thing which terrifies me is the total inevitability of it, and how I don't know how I am going to die or what happens after. I almost feel trapped because I can't escape it no matter what.
I never used to be so scared of it until I got panic disorder and was having panic attacks ALL the time to a point where I couldn't leave the house. When I had panic attacks I'd believe that I was dying. These have been the most terrifying experiences in my whole life, and I've had some awful experiences.
I was reading a magasine in which there was 7 ways, scientifics had thought of making us immortal, some of them just making you live just a bit longer. however there was one that has the potential to work. It was about how if they could find cells that could help recreate your heart or brain if damaged (or anything else). We had been talking about such stuff in science class and I know that its possible, it will just take a while for scientifics to discover how to do that. Finding that out creeped me out. Knowing that we could become immortals just scared me because, what if this stops us from living our lives? What if there's a whole path of lives we're suppose to live to become better and more experienced people? What if by becoming immortal, we do not accomplish are destiny in other lives that follow this one? So I just thought that if they invent that technology when I'm still alive, i will refuse it and let myself die whenever it comes so i can go on with the path of my life.
I use to cry every night so much I was scared of death when i was a child. Its sorta ironic. :)
it varies, I know what either state is like: to fear death or to not fear death
generally, I don't fear death.
but if I do, it usually means I have something on my conscience that I haven't dealt with, or there's an apology that I feel is overdue.
and the longer I wait, the longer I fear death, until I deal with it.
it's that simple for me.
i'm not afraid of death but i don't want to die just yet becasue i don't want to leave my pets all alone.i could care less about my family which probably means i'm going to hell. i am afraid of hell.
I'm not afraid of death, I sometimes even can't wait to see what's there. lol :roll:
I'm afraid of dying, but not of death or being dead for I believe that death will be the same as the nonexistence as before I was born.
"I don't fear death. I had been dead for billions of years before I was born, and had suffered not the slightest inconvenience from it." ~ Mark Twain
Somebody had already quoted Mark Twain in this thread. I feel the same as you, however I think we only feel like this because we aren't dying. If we were, then we'd be pretty damn scared to cease to exist forever. It's hard to even imagine such a thing. When I try I can only come up with black nothingness, as if you still exist but in black nothingness, real non-existence can't even be imagined. Maybe that's why it's not scary ;)
She did say she was scared of dying. I mean, I'd be f***** scared if I was dying from somebody killing me or in an accident but if I die from age, than it might not be that scary...
Who knows if its nothingness that's waiting for us. It's impossible to know. I feel as if if its just nothingness that's waiting for us once we die, I'll be nothing... Obviously but do you feel the same? i'd feel like all I did was a waste since it all end up the same way anyways: being unexistant. But, I'm sure we wouldn't get the time to care if it's that way since it doesn't feel like anything to be unexistant. You don't have any feelings anymore. Somewhere in me, I hope there's an afterlife, I just hope, 'cause I feel bad about everything just ending like that but I'm not scared. No one should be scared of things that are gonna happen for sure. We have to realise that it will happen and that there's no reason to spend our time living worrying about when we die. Dying can wait until it actually happen
The same here :( Once you think of it, it seems that we live senselessly and strive for senseless goals. A very frustrating feeling...
In childhood I once heard about a young neighbor die, and my naive thoughts were like this: they (his parents) fed him and spent money for his clothes, wasted so much time and feelings for him, cared for him, and all that effort was in vain, they wasted so many years of their lives in vain!
Maybe it sounds cruel, but there's a grain of truth there, imho. They put many years in raising that person, and saw their hopes amount to nothing. It's senseless.
How can you feel not scared of ceasing to exist? Just think: no you, no world, no nothing. Just like it was before you were born, not like being in a black vacuum, but not existing at all. It creeps me out :(Quote:
Somewhere in me, I hope there's an afterlife, I just hope, 'cause I feel bad about everything just ending like that but I'm not scared.
The reason I'm not scared is that its going to happen. There is NO way I'm not gonna die and even if I have the choice to be immortal or to die, I'd chose to die. It is impossible that I won't die so why would I worry? Seriously, if I'm gonna stop existing, better make my life the best it can be. Imagine that:
You spend your life worrying about death, so much that you don't get to enjoy it, than you die, and you spent all that time living worrying about something that happenned while you could of ignored that stage of life and lived the best you could.
When I was a kid, I would cry EVERY night. Ironicly, that all started on christmas. Since, that day Christmas reminded Death to me. Why? Because I watched a christmas movie and since that day. I hate watching them and I got rid of all the gift I got of that year 'cause they all made me depressed. That movie was about Santa Clause. Santa Clause is immortal. The movie had lots of people that were immortal. But there were a lot that wasn't. They were mortal. It started when Santa Clause was a kid. And then he saw his parents die from age since he was immortal. I'll remember that scene the rest of my life. 'Cause its at that moment that I realised that everyone I knew including me were mortal and that i would indeed die like Santa Claus's parents. I became scared of gaining age. I was scared of losing my parents, and my pet animal (a cow :dancingcow:, I still have it because when i was a kid, it made me sad that I'd ever have to get rid of it. I'm only keeping it to please the kid I use to be. I don't sleep with it though. i just feel as if I'd be betraying my past if I did). Anyways, every night I would cry because I was scared of not existing anymore. I felt as if Death was so close. To me, I would die from age the next day. (Not litarly, but I would cry every night as if). My parents kept telling me that I still had lots of time before that happened. As I grew I realised that there was lots of time ahead. I realised that i didn't have to worry for years. i realised it was a waste to cry every night. I was just ruining my life, I was ruining what was left.
If any one's so scared of death they should try to enjoy life the best they can.
Besides, you can get rid of that worrying by hoping there's an after life. If you hope so hard, you start believing, than you'll stop worrying. What if there's no afterlife? Well then you'll never know. What you don't know doesn't hurt you. If there's an afterlife, than life goes on. If you stop existing, than you never care. You won't lose in any case from believing there's an afterlife.
I am telling the truth. I have no fear whatsoever of death. So your statement that "everybody is terrified of death" is incorrect.
I'm not saying I want to die - quite the contrary. The thought that one day this magical adventure will come to an end makes me feel a strange sense of sorrow. But I certainly have no fear of death. If you actually think about it, it is completely irrational to fear being back in the state you were in before you were born, which is what I am convinced occurs when you die. (I will say that it took quite a bit of mental processing for me to reach this position of acceptance of what it will 'be like' to be dead.)
I do however fear the process of dying as I know it is quite likely that I will experience some degree of discomfort or pain during the process, unless I'm lucky enough to die very quickly or in my sleep. But that is a fear of pain and suffering, not a fear of the state of being dead.
I also do fear that I might die while I am still reasonably young as I am enjoying life and I know it would have a terrible impact on my loved ones if I were to die in the near future.
But again, I have no fear of the state of being dead. To me, death is simply the end, and I would describe it as bittersweet, beautiful, and perfect.
But that's just me :)
Lol! Great kiwi SOH! :)
What kind of question is this? Of course i'm afraid of death, and I'll do almost anything to avoid it....
Although, death isn't as scary and the pain that might come before it.
Lol... just noticed I already posted in this thread. almost the same reply too....
http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI...1612R-2829.jpg
Fear of death? What fear of death? I just don't have that.
That was a very interesting story. Thanx for sharing. I like when people share their life stories that made them think in a particular way. I can only marvel at how you reacted to that movie, I myself never had the same reaction to this topic! ;)
Aren't you afraid of losing your memory, personality, and of becoming forever unconscious? It's not the same as being afraid of death, it's more like going severely insane, but it's the same as "the state you were before you were born". I can see how it can seem ok at times, but not always.
Thanks. i like it too when people do that, that's why I do it :content:
I understand how she feels 'cause I feel like that since a couple of years. When we think about losing the memories, our personality and becoming forever unconscious, we feel a sort of sorrow, like when somone you like a lot left and you know you won't see them for a long time, already that you don't. We just feel sad, not scared though, because we have accepted it.
If I've just be kidnapped and I'm locked in a room. I know the man's somewhere in the house. I also know he said he was going to kill me me really rapidly so I don't feel pain, whatever his purpose is. He takes a lot of time so I end up staying there. At the beginning I will be crazy, I'll panic, maybe for a whole day, and normal people would go on paniquing, but I react well to stress, like, I never get stressed for exams or when I'm late (I'm very punctual) or more intense stress like fear. So I'd probably calm down after a day 'cause I know I'm just hurting myself. In such a situation, you can't let yourself freak. You have to relax. Then I would tell myself that I technickly died alreay for there is no way out and decide that surviving would be a miracle. Now, I'll I have to do is enjoy the rest that I have. There's nothing to do in this room? So, I'd probably call the man and talk to him. Maybe his crazy but he might start liking me if I talk to him nicely and he might be less vigilant and I might be able to run away. Probably not, but I'd have lived the best I can of what was left and maybe enjoyed his crazy personality.
Okay, that was just a metaphore. The psycopath was our obligatory death. We WILL die whatever we wish. In that story, there is less time to live, but in real life, we have more and we have more time to enjoy. Our lives are oftenly boring but there's always a way to entertain ourselves, especially by interacting with people, even though we don't like them like in the metaphore. Beside, what's the point of being scared: You're hurting yourself when you could be happy instead. We WILL die and if I stop existing well, I better enjoy what I have. Maybe I will not remember but at least I won't suffer. I hope that was clear... i'm hard to understand sometimes... (or always) :content:
I see what you mean, but that's not entirely close to loss of personality imho. At least I think that it's closer to think that there's only one you, so you can't observe yourself fading away with sadness. That wouldn't be scary, it's like watching somebody falling asleep. What is scary is when it's you who's falling asleep like that, when you lose an ability to observe or to think. I certainly don't want to lose it... It doesn't "scare" me out of my wits, but it's dreadful. Such things like looking are so basic that we never think of them, you don't really know what's good till it's gone, they say. But to lose an ability to observe would be like losing eyesight. Imagine that you won't be able to look around anymore, to see things visually, nobody would want that to happen. And then you'd lose an ability to even realize that you can't see anything, an ability to think. Ugh... I feel like it's not something happening to another person and you can watch it from the outside perspective, it's like the whole world ceases to exist with you. Everything is gone, absolutely everything.
Worrying about it is certainly not good, as your childhood example shows. I completely agree with your example of a girl locked up in a room, too, and I'm not advocating that she should spend the rest of her days worrying sick in such a situation. It's just an interesting and unusual topic ;) And I wish we had an ambrosia or something alike, ahem, well maybe someday people will discover something to make our bodies stop waning with time.
Somehow different views on death result in different life behavior. For instance, there are people who think that they can leave something behind. They feel like they gain an ephemeral extension of existence if they have raised kids or painted a masterpiece. I could never understand it. When you die, no kids or masterpieces exist anymore, nobody remembers you at all, even if in reality they do exist and do remember. I'd never want to make it a goal to leave something behind like that, a reminder or a good memory about myself, it's so senseless imho.
But it's interesting to compare.
And although above DreamQueen argues that nobody is really terrified of death, I can't agree. Fear varies, it doesn't have to be horror, it can be well-hidden fear. People who feel like they're leaving something behind are secretly terrified, otherwise they'd have no reason to hope for such a thing.
I think that all the NDEs ever reported ... added to a dream I had that I met with a dying relative, which I told other people about that morning, and was confirmed 3 days later ... is enough evidence for me personally to rationally call an afterlife of some sort pretty likely.
But on the other hand, concerning just the fear of death, I'd say that intellectually allowing for the possibility doesn't help much to alleviate fear. I consider the example of that hi-tech liquid that divers can breath in movies. Even knowing that you won't drown and die if you breath it, that would still be a horrible experience feeling like you are going drown and die.
If there was an afterlife of any sort, death wouldn't be entirely bad. And if there is no afterlife, then it won't matter anyways. So in a Pascal's wager sort of way, it's a no-lose situation. But the dying itself could still really suck.
I aggree that the moment you die would be a bit scary... But seriously, why are talking as if we;re gonna cease existing? There's no proof of that. I think we should believe in an afterlife. We shall believe blindly that there is an afterlife. However we must not rely on this afterlife. We must still enjoy this life. Believing in an after life will destroy your worries and whatever is true, when you die, you won't feel as if your dying but as if your going to your next life wherever it must be. If you do, than good. However, if you don't you won't know and you still will die happily thinking you still have a future,
What is Pascal's Wager. I looked it up but didn't understand the concept/
Like SCD said, no I am not afraid. Sad? Yes. Afraid? No. Not in the slightest. Are you relieved that all the time you spent experiencing nothingness before you were born is now over? If the state of nothingness were something to fear or dislike then technically you would be.
SCD, that's an interesting scenario you described. I like the way you think. If I was in that situation I would spend 100% of my time trying to devise a plan to survive.
Actually I did not say this at all. I said the statement "everybody is afraid of death" is incorrect which is not the same as saying nobody is afraid of death. I believe most people are afraid of death. In fact, I just said this in the 'nothingness' thread.
I agree. When we were born, our first sentence was not "I'm so happy to be alife! Being unexistant was so horrible. Being unexistant won't feel like anything. When you think about it, immortality would be worst. Imagine how bored you'd get walking in heven. When I think of an afterlife, I try not thinking of Heven 'cause heven if it was true, I would be so effin scared of it. I can not see myself standing for eternity in a boring place in which I don't need to drink or eat, a place that all I have to entertain myself is to talk. I get bored on Earth, I'll never be able to survive boredome in such a place. I do not have enough things to talk about during eternity. IF there is an afterlife, it would have to keep me busy. If it doesn't I rather stop existing.
Yes, i would too use 100% of my time trying to survive too. I said I'd panic for a day so I don't sound like a "Oh, I'm brave and not scared of anything" but I actually keep thinking that if I ever encounter any scary events, paniquing = hurting myself, maybe hurting others, painful death. i would automaticly calm myself. And then I'd say that my life is technicly over so if I fail at surviving, its not a fail. I was already dead. Surviving would be like resurecting. I make it sound like that so I won't freak out telling myself "Oh no, it's not gonna work. I can't think at every instant that I'm dying over and over. I have to die only once and that be when I get kidnapped. After that, its just a chance to get resurection.... I mean, I could just make myself believe I;m dreaming and try to escape as if it was a simple game. I hope I don't sound like a "i'm so brave and nothing can stop me" 'cause its not that that I'm trying to get accross.
Hi SCD
Pascal's Wager is sometimes referred to as 'Fire Insurance'. It is based on the premise that when it comes to deciding whether or not to believe in God a person is better to believe that God exists because there is nothing to lose if you believe in Him and it turns out He doesn't in fact exist, but a huge price to pay if you don't believe in Him and it turns out He does in fact exist.
In other words...
Fact: Either God exists or He doesn't.
If He doesn't exist then when you die you simply cease to be conscious whether you are Christian or Atheist.
If He does exist then when you die you will go to Heaven if you did believe or hell if you didn't.
A lot of people rationalize that they should believe in God for this reason. But actually the reality is that this logic is flawed.
This amusing video explains why: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6s2tpTAfJg&NR=1
(note the first minute is a little waffly but it gets good after that)
PM me if you are still confused :)
While Pascal's wager does have flaws used in it's original form, I think that those flaws come from Pascal trying to use it as an argument for believing in a reward/punishment judeo-christian god.
If you strip away it's attempt to carry theology, and just go for belief in the existance or non-existance of any unspecified afterlife, I think it appears to work pretty well.
The individual who assumes there is some sort of afterlife has nothing to lose if that assumption is wrong. Because if they are wrong they won't exist to care. And if they are correct, then maybe the foreknowledge helps them through the experience of dying somewhat.
For the individual who assumes there is no afterlife of any sort, if they are correct then they won't exist to appreciate that fact. If they are wrong, they get the same fate of surviving death as the person who believed in an afterlife. So relatively speaking they gained nothing and experienced a little extra fear in their lives before their death.
If eternity is boring, maybe that's why so many people reincarnate? (if they reincarnate) Just like all the bored people on earth who play The Sims :)
I went through believing to disbelieving, and a few times back and forth again throughout the years. At this point I can't say that I care, but for myself I found not believing better. It's more realistic and it makes me appreciate what I have. And if afterlife exists then it's going to be a pleasant surprise. ;)
You assume that there's a state of non-existence, writing in a manner as if you could not-exist and then after birth remember it and compare that state to life. However you can't, there was no you who could experience non-existence.
This concept is too abstract. Babies can't be expected to care, not only they can't possibly remember what they've never experienced, but they can't think or understand most basic things at birth either.
What counts is what we think after we became aware of having no life before birth. I remember that moment in my own life, and it was full of puzzlement and fear.
:D
Seriously, if I'm not mistaken, the only reason why people play The Sims is because they can play out a scenario they want there, in a controllable way. It's like being a god, you can get money, a house, and a sweetheart you want. You can even create all that on your own, to make sure that it looks exactly as you want. Kind of like dream control, but limited to options that game designers created ;)
Reincarnation in comparison to it is uncontrollable and intimidating, imho, you could reincarnate into a fly that gets killed the very first day of its life by a frog. Reincarnation doesn't sound that great. Especially when you remember that you're supposed to lose your memory and get a random, karma-based personality and body. If The Sims game didn't give you total freedom, I doubt that it would ever become so popular :)
I'm not afraid of death per se... I'm afraid of reaching the end of life. Slightly different things :D. There's so much each of us will probably never do....
Great video, favourited!
Remember, often the believers are the ones afraid of death. That is often why they believe in the first place.
And if we make the assumption that afterlife exist, the (blind) believers probably won't be in good stand! (It has something to do with beliefs, preconception, archetypes and how fears manifest into reality)
Your thoughts of reincarnation might not be correct :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Arutad
That was a good video and right before watching it I did find it unacurate for the fact that they state in the video. There is not just two possibilities of what might happen when we die. There are many. I actually believe that if there is an after life, it is nothing that humans have thought it might.
Pascal's Wager makes way more sense in this context than in the religious one. I agree with you on this one.
:bowdown:
:bowdown:
I believe so too, well, its my reason for playing it... Sadly my Sims game doesn't work anymore :cry: lol. It was fun deciding of someone's fate... Especially when you have the cheat codes :D
Who knows. Maybe there are other planets on which you can reincarnate and on which you do not lose your memory... The reason why the people that reincarnate on our planet lose their memory might because if they didn't they could tell everyone the secrets of after life but that the gods do no want that or something. What's awaiting for us after death is exciting. That's why I'm not scared. I belive in an afterlife and I hope it will be exciting. If its boring, I rather stop existing. And maybe that for dead people, going back to earth with no memories, and geting a random karma-based personality and body is exciting so much there bored? And what's so bad with being a fly even if you die the same day. You still had the experience of being one.
I just thought of this: when you think you fear death, you actually fear hell, or being forgotten after you die...which is what I find so intriguing about the ancient belief that the length of your afterlife depends on how long you stay in people's memories...but even then, none of us are going to live forever
im not afraid of death because i am soooo curious as to what happens. but i am also at the same time afraid because i am afraid that nothing might happen when we die.
Apparently, it was french astronomer Camille Flammarion, who besides popularizing astronomy in europe, also first put forth the idea that we reincarnate to other planets instead of returning to earth. Apparently he attracted his own extraterrestrial reincarnation spiritualist movement, back in the early 1900's.
Actually, it still doesn't make sense to think that way.
One is better to live their life as if there is no afterlife and this is all you get. That way you are spending your precious time wisely and if when you die it turns out there is more then that would be a nice bonus. But the fact is, it is far more likely there is nothing after you die. Everything we know about the universe and it's physical forces indicates this is the case. So everyone really ought to be making the absolute most of this life. It's hard to genuinely do that if at the back of your mind you are anticipating more.
Anyway, there being no afterlife is really not such a bad thing. In fact, I think it's a good thing and I know other atheists who feel the same. If you really think about it, the thought of being trapped existing for eternity with no prospect of escaping the experience of being conscious is actually terrible. Seriously imagine you were never going to die ever!
In other words in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000,000,000,000,
years you'd still be conscious.
It's ridiculous.
So, personally I'm glad there is no afterlife. The only good afterlife I can imagine is a limited one, say 50-100 years living in paradise with all your loved ones and no pain or suffering followed by sudden, unanticipated, painless, annihilation all at the same time. But the people who wrote the Bible stupidly thought forever sounded better! I'd say they didn't think it through thoroughly. You can only play your favourite hobby for so many trillions of years before it might become a little, uh, tedious!
Anyway, my advice is to live each day as if it were your last because one day you'll be right ;)
people keep saying that after life is only possible if god exists. that is so not true. there are other ways for after life to be possible without considering religeous stuff, wether its reincarnation, or some form of heaven or just any way of being concious
Afterlifer #1: "Hey I'm bored. Do you wanna come and play cards with me?"
Afterlifer #2: *glances at digital watch* "Yeah, um, ok, but it'll have to be a quick game coz I'm meeting a friend for coffee in 3 trillion years".
:lol:
i dont want to loose conciousness. i dont want to live forever, but i want there to be something like heaven.
im not religious, and my interpretation of heaven is different from the majority of people.
Yes DreamQueen, your notion about the afterlife is ridiculous as you say.
That is why any afterlife would not be like that.
Of course the super-system is not set to ever achieve the boredom you are describing.
Even if you have lived for a long time, you don't feel it do you? You do not remember right now that you have existed for a long time do you?
There is no such thing as eternity, don't worry.
Nobody is claiming that death is painful. We are claiming that we are programmed to be afraid of reaching it. It is our fear of it that keeps us alive. The fear is not of an experience of being dead. The fear is of the loss of the living experience we now have. Death is not an experience. It is a complete lack of experience, as far as we know. We are not arguing that we are going to be afraid or in pain when we are dead.
Nice post UM, I completely agree that our body/mind/ego is kept alive by the fear of death and fear in general, and the desire to continue.
The other night I had a dream about dying. I die in my dreams a lot, but this time was a little different because I experienced the moments during/after death for once. It seemed like I forgot everything around me, and slowly I began to forget about myself (body, memories, and then identity). As this process continued I became pure thought, like I was just a floating transforming thought, except the thoughts weren't mine at all because I had forgotten who I was. It seemed like I was the non-self that the Buddhists talk about.
Then I wake up.
I wonder if that is what death and reincarnation is like...The dream made me feel a little less worried about death, but there is no doubt that if I were dying I would still be frightened. I'm not ashamed to admit it because it seems completely natural to me. Our ego was designed to keep us alive, to keep us going no matter what. When we are in a situation out of our control (death) it seems like a natural reaction for the ego to be terrified.
I personally think all the people saying they are not afraid of death on this thread either:
a) Haven't had a close brush with death yet
b) Haven't experienced extreme anxiety
c) Must be completely enlightened, and know without a doubt that reincarnation is real.
Yah. Time to part-take the thread.
Am I afraid of death? No. Am I afraid of dying? I don't know/can't tell. We are just a deterministic amount of organised molecules reacting. But if I'm afraid of losing someone I like - that's another thing.
And you make all these claims on what authority?
You're just making it up like the rest of us.
You can argue what you've made up is better than what someone else has made up.
Face it, you don't know and that makes you feel uneasy.
So don't come making claims about a "super system" as if you designed it.
We are all in the same boat.
Bunch of hairless monkeys looking up at a very big universe, with our very short lives... all thinking WTF is this all about?
Science is giving us answers, but it's a slow hard earned process.
Don't be so self absorbed to think that your little monkey mind could possibly grasp what the universe is all about. You, like me, have no sodding idea why we are here, or if there even is a why.
As for after life.
What makes us little bald monkeys so special to deserve one?
Any more than say a trout, a dolphin or a poodle?
Because we make things? because we can think about thinks every so slightly more complex ways?
Anyway,
My point to you is...
Stop speaking as if you're an authority on a subject to which none of us can be an authority. This is a discussion on a subject with no known answers.
All we can do is discuss likelyhood based on the very limited view of the universe we already have.
^ Ha ha, well said.
Yeah, I was wondering where SS was getting all this information. I thought perhaps maybe you had a direct phone line to God or something SS? Lol!
How much per minute would that be I wonder?? :P
Are you really a man? :D Men I know despise the game so much they'd never touch it ;)
It's bad because whomever was a fly, it was technically not you. You didn't remember yourself while being a fly, and you wouldn't remember having been a fly in the next life. Judging by buddhism it's possible to remember your previous lives, at least Buddha is rumored to have done that, but it only starts being fair if everybody will eventually become like him and gets a chance to remember. Even then, it's so freaky to have found out that you've had a totally different character and body in past, many times. I think you'd still consider yourself to be largely what you are in the life in which you've managed to remember others, so basically if you become like buddha in one of your future lives, your current personality would be lost forever. Not that buddhism cares for personality, but I certainly care at least for keeping my own memories. Imho a Christian version of afterlife is more pleasant!Quote:
And what's so bad with being a fly even if you die the same day. You still had the experience of being one.
You get bored => life isn't worth living => kill yourself?
I'm not so sure that being entertained is the only meaning of life.
Boredom is only a mood, and your moods are not you. I don't understand killing yourself to get rid of something that is not you. It's like murdering an infected person to cure him. Sure you dealt with the virus, but you killed the person you wanted to cure, so in effect your action was meaningless.
I view your chain of death in the same way. You try to do away with a mood you dislike, and instead of dealing with it you achieve a senseless outcome of your own death, with nobody left to be glad that boredom got removed.
I think in the same vain most of the time, although there's an issue with this thinking. Real following of such philosophy leads to extreme hedonism. If you really fall into thinking that you have only as much time, then life style would drastically change. Maybe you'd decide that you don't need anything to be happy except daily LSD-trips :), or something like neverending sex, going to nightclubs, playing games. Depends on what gives you most pleasure. With boring parts of life you'd attempt to do away, so in effect no career would be needed, no family or whatever.Quote:
So everyone really ought to be making the absolute most of this life. It's hard to genuinely do that if at the back of your mind you are anticipating more.
I had a chance to live a life of extreme hedonism, and instead of the coollest possible life it makes you get bored eventually with everything that used to give you pleasure. So paradoxically belief in afterlife or not, the very same problem of boredom spawns. If I had your views, I'd have committed suicide out of boredom. But I choose to think that moods have no direct relation to the length of life. I can't say what spawns boredom, but it's not how long you've lived, it's something else.
Anyway if I had to choose between eternal boredom and death, I'd choose eternal boredom. Bored is better than dead. In case of making such a choice I'd even enjoy my mood of boredom for a while, precisely because another alternative was death. ;)
But you didn't reply anything to my reply about your kids-don't-fear-non-existence post. Is silence a sign of agreement? :)Quote:
UM, I was answering Arutad's posts
No, normally when you get bored in real life, you take steps to avoid it. You do a hobby you enjoy, or even just do something to take your mind off it.Quote:
You get bored => life isn't worth living => kill yourself?
The difference between real life and eternity is at some point you would have done everything of interest and become permanently bored. You'd not be able to escape it. Existing would be agonising because the boredom was so great, with no means of avoiding it.
How do you deal with boredom when you've finally done everything and done it so that you've become bored of that? By doing something else you find boring? The idea you can stave it off infinitely is silly.Quote:
and instead of dealing with it
The idea of an afterlife is simply a childish fantasy because some would rather not deal with the concept of their mortality. It's also dangerous in some ways because it trivialises death. At least if people truely believe in the idea anyway, and given the grief shown by many who claim to believe such things when a loved one dies, I doubt that many really do.
Actually I'm pretty bored with life now, but I don't find the feeling of boredom agonizing. I think that you exaggerate its agonizing quality quite a lot...
You must feel so awful about having to eat a few times per day, or having to type the same way, these damn keys remain in the same places on the keyboard! Maybe it sounds ridiculous, but come to think of it, all such small things are insanely repetitive and aren't going to change.
But seriously, when you were bored, did you ever feel so much unbearable anguish that you wanted to kill yourself to avoid that unbearable anguish? I don't think so, boredom is not such a strong feeling. It's not even a single feeling, it's a form of negative reaction towards something. Stop reacting negatively, and you're ok, you don't even need anything new or fresh.
As any feeling, it can be ignored or stifled. Focus on doing something very intently, and you forget about it completely.Quote:
How do you deal with boredom when you've finally done everything and done it so that you've become bored of that? By doing something else you find boring? The idea you can stave it off infinitely is silly.
But the question is, why do you need to be entertained to want to live? :shock:
No, you've merely missed my point.Quote:
Actually I'm pretty bored with life now, but I don't find the feeling of boredom agonizing. I think that you exaggerate its agonizing quality quite a lot...
Even if you led one of the most active outgoing lifestyles on the planet, there are many activities you haven't done, people you haven't had the chance to interact with, things you haven't had the chance to see. There is a lot of stuff you can do to alleviate boredom, whether you choose to do so or not.
Even if you find life boring now, firstly does that apply to everything you do? Everything?
Secondly, what about the degree of boredom? It's a range, from being mildly bored to extremely bored.
Thirdly, there's the timescale. Compared to eternity, it's extremely short.
Now, imagine you have lived for millions of years and done everything. There is nothing new to do, and since you've done everything so many times, everything is therefore extremely boring. And you've got to endure it for eternity, with no way of escaping it.
Again, you write from the perspective of a naive person who has many outlets for boredom and has only had to suffer it on a very short timescale. Do I feel like I want to kill myself at the moment when I'm bored? No, because there is plenty of stuff I can do, as I mention above. If I'd been alive for millions of years, yes, I would want to kill myself.Quote:
But seriously, when you were bored, did you ever feel so much unbearable anguish that you wanted to kill yourself to avoid that unbearable anguish? I don't think so, boredom is not such a strong feeling. It's not even a single feeling, it's a form of negative reaction towards something. Stop reacting negatively, and you're ok, you don't even need anything new or fresh.
Because merely existing is not fun and enjoyable to most people? Many people exist who do not enjoy it. This is again, a typical naive impression from someone who does not have to suffer hardship, or pain.Quote:
But the question is, why do you need to be entertained to want to live?
You also only have to look at others to see that pleasure is essentially universally considered something to strive for; entertainment is ultimately a form of pleasure, boredom a form of pain.
And my own goal in life is to enjoy it as best possible. Mere existence is not enjoyable.
Various biological functions can be tedious in the extreme, but generally speaking they are over fairly quickly. I also have the luxury of using modern technology to do a lot of the process for me, as well as granting me access to many different kinds of foods and recipes to make the process more enjoyable. But do I get bored of eating certain kinds of things? Sure.Quote:
You must feel so awful about having to eat a few times per day, or having to type the same way, these damn keys remain in the same places on the keyboard! Maybe it sounds ridiculous, but come to think of it, all such small things are insanely repetitive and aren't going to change.
Do I get bored of typing out on a keyboard? No because it's not something I do consciously (I can easily touch type), and because doing so is part of another process I do find enjoyable, whether it be discussing subjects with people over the internet, or playing a video game, or whatever. If I sat at my computer and typed streams of random letters on a keyboard in Word for no purpose, then I'd get bored with it very quickly, and let's face it, most would.
Boredom seems like a matter of perspective, and maybe it's a matter of brain chemicals.
Many kids are often bored during the first time they've ever done something, and some wouldn't voluntarily read a book unless they've been doped up on ritalin. But they aren't bored from playing Halo for the 10 millionth time.
But in times gone past, at least some used to be able to read books, and enjoy them too.
Personally, I find most games annoyingly boring, and enjoy things which a gamer-oriented kid wouldn't. It seems clear that boredom isn't a matter of always needing to find new things, it's whether you're thinking about what you want.
Who says an infinite afterlife is going to be you doing repetitious things and prevented from having fun? With a whole universe and many billions of years left before it expires, things are bound to change a lot eventually.
The human race will probably become extinct in the next million years, or evolve into something very different. And may eventually reach other stars before they do. Other species will rise and have their days, either on earth or on distant worlds. Each will have their own unique ways, and concerns in their lives.
True, I have too many boring LDs, but they probably shouldn't be boring. That's more likely my own fault, and a bit of misanthropy.
You claim that I claim on what authority?
Of coarse it makes me uneasy! Do you think I will let life pass without exploring the discovery of reality and existence?!
Did you read my last reply in the blind and AP thread? Give me a chance to tell what I know about reality.
Yes, it can be both amazing and frustrating right? If one can unravel the frustration from amazement one might..
RIGHT THERE you are limiting your self!
The mind is an amazing thing, which like the Universe can get hard to grasp. Who made the rule that this should be impossible to understand?
Science.. Both the tool and the user is a limiting factor. The tool do not differentiate between anything, it has no opinion! Only the user can differentiate between findings and whatnot.
When the user has encountered enough paradigme shifts, the tool will be ready, to its new objective. It has happened before and it will happen again.
Maybe if I had more little monkey minds to share ideas with? Maybe then, maybe then we could achieve something.
Do you want an answer for that here? It would be much better in the thread I will create when I have time to do so. My answer will result in more questions, more answers more questions. It needs a thread for itself.
Have I come across as an authority? I have never meant to do that.
If writing one sentence about the most complex matter without supporting it with additional arguments, yes then I am guilty of that. I simply chose to do that, as additional arguments make take days to construct on text.
As I thought yesteday.. I planted a seed without any water, the seed is there now, I can water it when I must do so. The water may come from somewhere else, but until so I have to do it.
;)
Good question DreamQueen. The information.. The information comes from everywhere and everything.
I try to see everything from a big perspective, I try to get the big picture. When my mind is wondering about knowledge, when it tries to find wisdom. (Like transforming lead into gold)
I read about everything, all subjects.
Everytime I cross a term, word or something I do not understand, I look it up, read about it and sometimes research it thoroughly. I have always been very reflective, I did a personality/learning method test some months ago, my reflective score broke the scale, it was 160 %
My favourite class in school is "Idea History" (Idéhistorie), the subject is often very philosophical, just out of interest I invovle me with the subjects and questions proposed by the teacher. My grade for the whole year is A.
I have no direct phone line to "God", I have just used what I have, my thougts and mind. With sheer curiosity and interest one have made it a long way.
---------
For further reference, try not to impede others by projecting words with a limiting message. The World's vast lands might continue where my ends.
I hope that we can keep sharing ideas, with the common interest of personal growth. My thought is that happiness is the ultimate goal, with that in mind we should be able to discuss openly and freely. We often see our egos come in the way of really understanding eachother, let the mutual benefit happiness guide your thoughts.
I am glad that you, spaceexplorer is here to participate in discussions. I have always thought that it's better to be an open-minded (Tired of reading that word lol) atheist than a blind believer.
We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world. ~ Buddha
Goodnight, dream well.
Everything photolysis said.
Nowhere in this thread (or ever in my life) have I written, said or implied that kids don't fear nonexistence. In fact I haven't even mentioned children in this thread. So I don't know which post is supposed to be my "kids-don't-fear-non-existence post".
Oh, I am guessing you mean this...
I was asking whether you at any stage of your life, not necessarily as a baby, feel relieved that the time before you were born is over. The answer to this question is clearly 'no' as the time before you were born was not an aversive experience.
Yes I do assume that there's a state of nonexistence. That is indeed my belief. Furthermore I can imagine not existing by considering what I was experiencing in the year 1472. As far as I know it was nothing. Of course I could be wrong. But I think that is the most likely scenario as opposed to one where I was in fact experiencing 'something' of which all my memory has been erased.
Another way to imagine being completely unconscious is to imagine that you are not just you but right now you are also the desk your computer is sitting on. What do you see, hear, smell, taste, feel or think from the table's perspective? A big fat nothing. I think it's fairly safe to say that the table/desk your PC sits on is not having an unpleasant or scary experience.
I believe before a person is born and after a person dies they experience the same thing as your computer desk/table is experiencing right now which is not something unpleasant and hence not something to be feared. I believe that it requires a functioning brain to generate consciousness. In other words consciousness is a product of neural activity. When the neural activity stops, so does the experience of being conscious.
Dying is such a big part of my dreams. It often goes along with that "oh shit," sinking, pain in the chest fear feeling that I imagine some people feel before they die. That's the worst feeling in the world.
I'm afraid. I'll admit it. :)
Boredom can be an unbearable torture, that seems to be your thought. I'll reply to it.
It's not necessarily true that boredom can become unbearable, especially to a point of wanting to kill yourself to get rid of it. What made you think so? You've never experienced boredom of an unbearable degree, I can bet on it.
It's not necessarily true that when you've lived for a long time, your emotions and reactions are going to remain as they are now. Who knows what you'll become in 1000 years, maybe your feelings would be so different that it's not worth to even talk about boredom. Kids, teens, adults, elders, all react differently, you can see how people change throughout life. And it's only about 60 years for most, imagine the scope of changes that an eternity could possibly bring.
Last but not least, boredom is a feeling. I can picture wanting to die due to eternal physical pain, but not to an emotional kind of discomfort. It may seem of the same intensity, but it is not.
"if you don't fear death, what is there to fear?"
I don't like this question at all, and try to avoid it at all cost.
But, here I go.
I'm not scared of death, just scared of what death is. I have more fear in the people around me dying, then dieing myself.
True. I think that what people call boredom is inability to get pleasant addictive feelings. If you play Halo and feel excited about killing, it doesn't matter how many times you play it. It will only become boring once you lose an ability to derive that pleasant feeling from playing it. It doesn't mean that Halo itself is boring.
Attention span plays some role in it, too, imho. There is a kind of constant urge to switch attention that gets wrongly interpreted as boredom. However it doesn't matter what to switch it to. Most of the times I do that only to find out that I don't want to do what I started doing at all, I want to proceed what I was previously doing, and it was only an urge to switch myself to a different activity.
It sounds contradicting. You say that experience of being conscious stops when neural activity stops, but at the same time you say that before birth a person "experiences" the state of a desk.
The same objection about this:
How can the time before birth be aversive or not an aversive "experience"? 1000 years ago there was no neural activity of yours.Quote:
I was asking whether you at any stage of your life, not necessarily as a baby, feel relieved that the time before you were born is over. The answer to this question is clearly 'no' as the time before you were born was not an aversive experience.
As for the question, I felt very scared and frustrated when I first realized that there was time when I didn't exist. But I couldn't remember anything about it, so it couldn't be aversive or pleasant. I remember how I desperately tried to picture my own non-existence and couldn't. What you can't remember can't be called non-aversive or aversive.
http://www.freewebs.com/spimission/e...gis_normal.gif
Hey, Aigis here. Spi's answer is as good as mine. Do I fear death? Nope.
Why?
Well done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Specialis Sapientia
I'm so glad this topic of mine mentioned about boredom. Here are my thoughts on boredom: I would say it's a common limitation of many mindsets. Also, I don't really care if people label this as my opinion entirely. I'm just glad to share these insights, after all, the topic's wide open for it.
Good say, Arutad. You have a good grab there really, and anyone contemplating enough could go farther with that point. It is a form of negative reaction. Boredom isn't much of a dynamic emotion, it's more of an instinct. Like many instincts, boredom could be transcended. For example - we all have our little fears of this and that, and our fears limit ourselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arutad
Boredom is like the hunger for fun - it happens as the instinctual nature starts flaring up whenever there's stagnation. It makes us force to do something to stop that feeling.
I see the means to live is to learn lessons. Dwelling in negativity is pointless, plus it prevents me from transcending limitations. Which is why I never get bored, because my paradigm finds it pointless. Just like the fear of death, that's something to transcend. I'm not saying I rejected all sorts of negativity and became a happy-go-lucky person who's always grinning, I consider the account of everything. Bringing about my latent potential. Since it's not about rejecting, it's about transcending.
Death is a great mystery and many wonder about it. Some are crazy enough to appreciate death that way, and wouldn't mind if they died in order to understand.
People who fear death would want to be granted a life of immortality. Huh. "A life". I've once talked to a friend about why would man commit suicide if they (their physical body) was immortal; it's because they limit themselves that way. That's the problem with living life in one form, they're lacking in some important life lessons.
I look at a phoenix rising out of the ash. It tells me something. What's with the idea of reincarnation? From my knowledge, I understand why there's symbolism like the Phoenix. I consider analyzing everything to be pointless and the "Doubting Thomas" position to be lame, so I have my wisdom in using faith - using it to leap over whatever knowledge or logic say "...This is where I stop". I wouldn't say death is the end of life. I would say... it's birth. For every end, there's a beginning. Burn and rise out of the ashes.
It's a lot better to see death as a something (whatever you believe it holds) that could happen in anyway or chosen freely than being forced to experience. I could go farther on this point, but I might drift off to another tangent and everyone will be like, "Wha!!??" Hahaha!
I still take really's contribution to the topic, which was a couple of pages back, to the heart. It's just being afraid of a thought.
It's all really just thoughts, and our thoughts can sure limit us. And from Sapienta's point of view: I agree if we have that wisdom of wondering and transforming, we would know how to use those thoughts that help change our reality; opening us to a more expansive reality. Something unknown that our perspectives averted too or haven't caught by.
You read the whole topic?:shock:
I wasn't occupied with nitpicking, I did consider it a contradiction, and not only in words. But maybe I was wrong and it was lack of verbal clarity, if you say now that you don't believe in experience before or after death. In fact I'm pretty sure of it now.
Quote:
I believe before a person is born and after a person dies they experience the same thing as your computer desk/table is experiencing right now which is not something unpleasant and hence not something to be feared.
http://www.freewebs.com/spimission/e...spi_normal.gif Sort of. Since it's my topic, I check here now and then. It helps me understand the people here, and I'm glad the opinions are diverse!Quote:
You read the whole topic?
http://www.freewebs.com/spimission/e...spi_normal.gif Aigis is one of my Persona's, a part of me, she's my mental assistant that helps me order my thoughts! I call her in whenever I need help explainin' stuff. Go ahead and ask any question, I'm open today!
Err.. My question will be: how did you end up with a few personas?
http://www.freewebs.com/spimission/e...igis_small.gif It takes self-hypnosis. I'm programming myself to create my own mental box instead of living with the mental limitations given by the external reality we live in. Plus, each posts of mine are a step in the self-hypnosis, helping me download the programs I'm making for myself.
http://www.freewebs.com/spimission/e...lob_normal.gif Don't tell them too much, Aigis. You wouldn't be a good Yaboo user if you go around yappin' our secrets like that.
Omg this niadmx must be a third persona... right? :D
P.S. Death is scary, btw... I'm claiming it so that my post wouldn't be off-topic. ;)
http://www.freewebs.com/spimission/e...igis_small.gif If Nia was my Persona, it would work out very well. He's a really great person who likes to listen (I like to listen to Spi's thoughts myself). Arutad, what I was mentioning earlier would be the way for many to go beyond their fear of death. People may have difficulty going beyond certain limitations like their fear of death and just thinking about transcending it wouldn't be enough. But it's a step. Choosing to face the unknown means having high level of uncertainty, and because we can never be 100% certain - there's faith to fill in the gap. It would take faith to make that kind of leap in paradigm. I hope I don't sound too abstract, but I really need mention that it's up to the person to decide if they wanna stop fearing it.
life is meaningless so who cares if you die.
Another few interesting questions, related to the original are:
Which part of you/your mind is scared of Death?
How do you define a self? What actually dies?
I remember a very simple demonstration a good friend of mine did, in a group situation back when I was a teenager...
It's so simple it's almost silly, but I think it has wisdom beyond first appearances...
Firsly he showed us an Orange, and asked "Where is the Orange?"
The answer seemed easy... in his hand.
Secondly the orange was peeled, and broken into pieces, we all ate a piece.
He asked the question again "Where is the Orange?"
Simple, but profound I think.
Further questions can be added, such as "At which point does the Orange stop being an Orange?"
We are, I would imagine, not all that different from the Orange.
A quick look at medical history through the ages, will show how what is considered "true death", has changed over time.
But, the question remains... Who will Die?
Because, unless something very dramatic happens right as you read this...
the person you are when you die, will certainly not be the same as the person you are now. Essentially, the person you are now, Dies the moment you read the next word.... right now. You are no longer the same.
Life is a series of these processes.
We're not fixed, easily identifiable entitys.
We're fluid, morphing systems. Systems with Systems within Systems.
So many questions arise... what is personality?
Is a thought part of you or seperate?
Are you the body or the mind or both? (and if so are you less alive if you loose a limb?)
This is why I've always had problems with the idea of a Soul and an afterlife... It's so simplistic it becomes silly. We can barely define what consciousness is at any given moment. We can't easily draw a line where we end and the world begins.
It's a bit like asking
If a clock breaks, and no longer tells the time.. Is it still a clock? or a collection of cogs and springs?
I think it's as simple as that, we die, we stop being a Person, we revert back to the parts that make us up.
Our "self" system terminates, and becomes part of the bigger system of the Universe. Sooner or later our "cogs" will become parts of other living systems.
The only way our personality or self identity can really remain, is through others who remember us, and the legacys we leave on earth (such as music, writing, diarys etc.)
Bit of a ramble, but that's pretty much how i see it.
Well, at least it is for the time being.
I still fear death though, because the illusion of "me" is so very convincing, that i'm pretty certain I AM a seperate entity... but when i stop and think about it, I find nothing but illusion.
Arutad, what they mean is that this would be your life in an afterlife:
You do everything you love... During trillions of years... You still enjoy doing the same thing after trilions of years? Well if yes, its okay because you have eternity to get bored of it. Once you get bored of it and decide doing something else, you can do it thusand of years and trillions of years without getting bored of it but then there is a moment you will get bored of it and I'm sure you'll get bored of it after doing it trillions of years. Besides, you have etnernity. After 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000
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00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000 years and more... YOu WILL get bored of everything there is to do... because after all these years, there is still eternity... And then once your bored you get even more bored as the years go.... And once your bored for trillions of years, than it becomes a horrible torture. Than imagine trillions of years suffering from it. It would indeed become hell but instead of physical pain, mental pain. But then, there is still eternity to live. You just can't stop suffering and whatver you try to do to get rid of your boredome, you'd get bored of it one day.
Anyways, maybe that if we reincarnate and then forget everything is so we don't get bored of doing it over and over and still maybe, mentally aging, becoming wizer, a happier/better person inside even though, to you, you only had one life.
Or maybe there's more. We'll see when we die and if we stop existing, whatever.
Everything in BOLD in this quote are my replies to the quote.
But why would anybody want to get rid of fear of death? It can't be checked whether you've stopped fearing it until the last minutes of your life come, all the time could be wasted. And if you actually manage not to fear during those few minutes, what's so wonderful about it? I really can't see the urgency of wanting to transcend fear of death. :D
If you believe in afterlife then it makes sense, but if you think you'll disappear, then you don't need to think of afterlife as uncertainty and transcend the fear to face it.Quote:
Choosing to face the unknown means having high level of uncertainty, and because we can never be 100% certain - there's faith to fill in the gap. It would take faith to make that kind of leap in paradigm. I hope I don't sound too abstract, but I really need mention that it's up to the person to decide if they wanna stop fearing it.
Well I can't see why all that must be true.
What if I don't get bored in the first place? Maybe I'm going to find an activity that won't ever make me bored. Like being a God :D Imagine how busy you have to be.
And even if I do get bored, I can't see why it's going to be a torture and not a mild innocent feeling of boredom. Who said that it can intensify to an unbearable intensity?
That's too much claims without anything to back them up, really. Nobody has ever committed suicide out of boredom, and nobody felt boredom as torture. So it makes no real sense to think that just because you've lived for a long time, boredom is going to turn into torture.
How do you know?
The only way to know this would be to know what was going on in the mind of every single person who has ever committed suicide in the history of mankind.
That was a great description of eternity, SCD! What a nightmare it would be knowing there will never be any escape. Slow wave sleep would become your best friend and we'd all be trying not to get lucid lol :lol:
http://www.freewebs.com/spimission/e...igis_small.gif Well, like I said, it's up to the person if they have a good reason to go beyond that fear. My reason of not fearing death means for more free will. Like you would give yourself the choice to die, if they believe they're ready. For example, Socrates had a good reason to choose to die, not mainly because for the wonder of not fearing death but because it would end his life in a way that helps teach others.Quote:
But why would anybody want to get rid of fear of death? It can't be checked whether you've stopped fearing it until the last minutes of your life come, all the time could be wasted. And if you actually manage not to fear during those few minutes, what's so wonderful about it? I really can't see the urgency of wanting to transcend fear of death.
http://www.freewebs.com/spimission/e...igis_small.gif Would you choose death for any reason that comes out of that? Would you choose to expand or change your idea on what death is? I believe you are more free if you're free of the fear of death. Though. I guess limits can have their place, but it really depends on the person's reason and everything.Quote:
If you believe in afterlife then it makes sense, but if you think you'll disappear, then you don't need to think of afterlife as uncertainty and transcend the fear to face it.
I don't agree that stuff has to get old over the course of eternity. Things get old when they stop causing a lot of pleasure, but pleasure never gets old. If something is boring, it is not causing much pleasure. If you can have major pleasure for eternity, that is absolutely great.
But why do you want to be free to choose to die? I really don't understand. You call it free will, as if it's something noble.
I think choosing to die is weakness, you kind of give up in the face of hardships. It's generic thinking, I know, almost everybody thinks that suicide is very stupid. But what's so great about choosing to die if your sweetheart left you or if you have troubles at your job, that's weakness. You could eventually forget your sweetheart, and the situation with your job could change. It's a bit silly and exaggerating. Just like boredom-induced suicide, that's the most ridiculous thing I've heard :).
The only possible noble reason I can think of is when people choose to die to save others. Did you have something like that in mind?
As for Socrates, he strongly believed in afterlife. Whether he'd choose to die if he didn't, we can't really know.
Absolutely I'm afraid of death. Terrified really. I agree with whoever said before that we all are (or most of us) and are just afraid to admit it.
The only thing our minds have ever known is living. To cease that, to lose the mind, is terrifying. But I suppose it's just fear of loss and fear of the unknown though that's not comforting at all. We weren't worried though before we were born so I don't think it will be a big deal after we die (as Mark Twain pointed out).
Actually it's not unfounded. From what I know of my experiences so far of being conscious and of human nature, in my opinion after one has been conscious for trillions upon trillions of centuries the novelty of it all would most likely have worn off. I am still pretty hooked on the 1987 Amiga game "Mousetrap" even though I've been playing it off and on for 22 years. However it's not as exciting now that I've passed all 40 levels and I can definitely imagine that one day I will be sick to death (no pun intended!) of directing the cute little mouse through the maze and listening to the catchy, looped jingle. But certainly the novelty of playing Snakes and Ladders has long worn off which is conclusive evidence that it is entirely possible to get bored witless of a particular activity.
In my opinion everything, no matter how exciting or interesting, will eventually get boring. Remember we are talking about forever here. It never ends! In other words, take all those years which SCD typed and multiply the number by itself then square it again. Once all that time has passed you haven't even begun your journey to infinity. You're still tying your shoelaces.
Anyway, my point is simply that in my opinion eternal unconsciousness is not a bad or "creepy" thing and the concept doesn't frighten me or displease me in the slightest. To me it appeals infinitely more than eternal consciousness.
Do I fear death? No, not in the way I do with other phobias. Obviously, when I'm smacked in the face with it, I'll be sure to shiz myself.
This is like arguing "what makes you think physical pain can become unbearable to the point of wanting to kill yourself? You've never experienced pain of such a degree".Quote:
Boredom can be an unbearable torture, that seems to be your thought. I'll reply to it.
It's not necessarily true that boredom can become unbearable, especially to a point of wanting to kill yourself to get rid of it. What made you think so? You've never experienced boredom of an unbearable degree, I can bet on it.
I have been fortunate enough that I have not had to suffer much pain in my life so far, and the pain I have suffered was generally minor. But it's still very easy to see that at some point it would become unbearable, even without experiencing that level of pain. Attempting to argue otherwise would obviously be laughable.
In the same way I can extrapolate what boredom would be like on longer timescales with less outlets for it. That's the beauty of the human mind, we are capable of thinking about things we have not experienced first hand.
Well unlike you I happened to have experienced such pain in past, and it's true that it makes you want to die to escape. But I can't see in what way it's similar to the feeling of boredom. In fact, at those times I thought to myself that I was a fool, remembering all my emotional anguishes from the past :D The worst emotional anguish is only phantom pain is comparison to something as inescapable as strong physical pain. They're in two different leagues.
Physical pain and emotional aren't similar enough to draw a direct analogy. You can do it if you want, of course, but it's like creating a new idea out of thin air.Quote:
In the same way I can extrapolate what boredom would be like on longer timescales with less outlets for it.
Arutad, you stated that you wouldn't get bored because you'd become a God and be really busy and because of the variety of the tasks a god is confronted to, you'd never get bored.
Never? YOu know that infinity cannot be added or substracted, multiplied or divided, squared or square rooted? Infinity just mean 'none ending' so the only way to be able not to get bored would be to be eternely amused by something. Is that possible?
Anyways, back to your God thing, who said afterlife would allow you to be a God. The christian church does NOT allow you to be a God, that's for sure and this is the same for most religious afterlives. I personnaly think that whatever it is, it's nothing religious that humans have believed in but still, it doesn't mean we get to be Gods, it doesn't mean we get to play cards or to eat cookies. An Afterlife is something that living humans will most likely never know. We cannot assume something WILL be allowed. In religion class, my teacher gave us the task to draw heven. Everyone had a field of their favorite sport, their favorite music playing in the air, their favorite food, their favorite stuff, their favorite everything. But Hevan cannot be everyone's on little world or can it? SHould we all end up being isolated in our own perfect world?
About boredome, many afterlifes I read about, wether its from a religion or a fictionnal book, once you go to that after life you can never feel a negative feeling anymore. That'd maybe be the only way to escape boredome and other sadness as not having a love one with you. But then, isn't that like dying spirtiually? You're just there with no actual feelings for eternity? That would be like having a non-lucid dream forever, but a good one. You'd never wake up to enjoy it though.... Is that better than to stop existing? I believe the two to be the same and I personnaly rather not existing if I have to keep living without being who I really am.
SCD,
"The secret of life is enjoying the passage of time" , to quote James Taylor :)
I don't get bored very often in this life, and when I do it's more a question of something being annoying rather than it's being repetitious. There are plenty of simple things we do every day, like eating or breathing, but usually no one thinks those are boring.
The universe is a bigger place than most people appreciate. And even if only one star in a galaxy had life, there would be so many inhabited planets that you could spend from now until the universe ends to explore living on all of them. You could spend many lives just on earth finding out all the human race has to experience (both good and bad) The chance of exactly repeating anything aren't so much.
I find Camille Flammarion's ideas interesting, that reincarnation will eventually take us on a grand tour of the universe. As long as I get to leave planet earth, I don't predict I will be terribly bored by my afterlife. Maybe annoyed, but that isn't the same thing. Being annoyed isn't good, but it has little to do with repetition.
Everything in bold in the quote above are my replies
So as I just said, this thread is about fearing death but you guys are focusing far much more on the kinds of afterlife so let's make different categories and say if you fear them or not.
1. Cease to exist
2. Field in which all you can do is talk to people you love.
3. Somewhere that you can only feel good feelings and never negative feelings
4. Reincarnation (unconscious of it)
5. Reincarnation (conscious of it)
6. Training to be a God
7. Hell
8. living in a world similar to earth, but with people who died, for eternity
9 (you may add more possibilities)
I'm scared of none of these because as I already said, I'm just not scared of things like this. I want to enjoy what I have left and I prefer destroying any stress.
http://www.freewebs.com/spimission/e...igis_small.gif Suicide does have a bad reputation because of how most people choose suicide because they fear life more than death. That's not really transcending fear of death, because it's done out of the limitation of fear. Transcending the fear of death may sound simple, but at that point when you're pondering about death - if you aren't the type who is able to detach from the attachments (limitations) of your life, then getting over the fear of death would be pretty hard. And I'm not saying having attachments are bad, because they have their own place and everything. Also I should clarify this, transcending fear of death is not the same as not ever having fear of death, because it's more about changing your perspective of death that you would accept. It's to not allow fear limit your thoughts, feelings, and action. So then you would be in more control of yourself and live life with less worries.
http://www.freewebs.com/spimission/e...dventurous.gif That's how I want to die! Die as a hero!Quote:
The only possible noble reason I can think of is when people choose to die to save others. Did you have something like that in mind?
So you are discussing eternity and the afterlife.
Are you discussing the afterlife as eternity per se? Or discussing the afterlife IF it included eternity.
There is quite a big difference.
I often wonder why many western people take Christianity as the basic foundation of theories and arguments of things like these, for example with afterlife.
From an atheistic point of view, should one not take a more neutral stand, that an afterlife if it existed would not be solely described from a single religion. If you do that, "eternity" is no longer a must if afterlife was to be.
I also have a question:
If we take basis in the afterlife existing (as you do in this discussion), why do you think a super-intelligent being, or just consciousness would create a life, system or afterlife which would get pointless after eternity? Why do you think that the "creator" of this marvelous Universe to do such a thing?
It would be logical to think that life and existence would be created in such a way to be "productive", "effective" or "effecient" or with purpose like evolution.
Let us theories that infact reincarnation can happen, that means you have lived many times, for many years. Do you think of those years? Do you think that life got boring after the 50th reincarnation? No, and would it be more logical if the "system" was set after this? It would be a better solution for the "boring" problem, because every life is a "new one".
Does it seem more logical than the eternal "heaven"/"hell" system?
Just think about it (I have not made statements of what is true, just hypothesis which can be reflected on)
In nightmares, there is often fear based emotions. But when you awake, you realize nothing wrong could have happened to you - it was just a dream.
Same for real life. Who told you about death? If you're just having a nightmare, don't worry about it. :D Let it go, and you wake up perfectly fine.
:D
That was a joke, I don't expect to become a Goddess! And don't really want to. If anything can be boring, then it's absolute omnipotence and omniscience.
But I thought that if eternal existence is so boring, then God should've killed himself off by now (if he exists), and religious people don't ever mention such a predicament! :D I suppose it would be fun when Satan comes to Earth but God doesn't, because he got so bored that he killed himself, now that would be a blast. :)
Scoundrels!!!Quote:
The christian church does NOT allow you to be a God, that's for sure
For most but not all, right? ;)Quote:
and this is the same for most religious afterlives.
Wow we didn't have religion classes at school. So strange to hear that some schools have them.Quote:
In religion class, my teacher gave us the task to draw heven. Everyone had a field of their favorite sport, their favorite music playing in the air, their favorite food, their favorite stuff, their favorite everything. But Hevan cannot be everyone's on little world or can it? SHould we all end up being isolated in our own perfect world?
As for heaven being only a separate world of daydreaming, I hope not... Nothing like an independent world to make you feel imprisoned and isolated. Heaven is so strongly associated with happiness that they just drew whatever made them happy. Btw as far as I know from my religious friends, in heaven people are supposed to sing glory songs to God and stand around his throne all the time. I've always thought that it's not a very exciting way to spend eternity...
I never heard such a thing, what kind of religion was that?Quote:
About boredome, many afterlifes I read about, wether its from a religion or a fictionnal book, once you go to that after life you can never feel a negative feeling anymore.
OK I get your point. I'm just not sure how you're going to go about transcending fear of death. How you're going to achieve that, I wonder, and how you're going to know that you've transcended it without dying.
Good luck, hero :)Quote:
That's how I want to die! Die as a hero!
Yes, that would be a horrible and painful fate. You may not be around to care after your transition into non-existance is complete, but unless you are going to die by being present at ground zero of a nuclear blast, that transition would not be instantaneous. Depending on method of death, it could be from minutes to hours while all your cells die. You would sense your awareness starting to disappear, just like how brain-damage patients often sense what they have lost.
That would be a field I'd walk away from. I'm a bit of a misanthropist. I'd rather talk to more interesting life forms.Quote:
2. Field in which all you can do is talk to people you love.
Not so bad. Negative feelings are overrated. Though sometimes good feelings are too.Quote:
3. Somewhere that you can only feel good feelings and never negative feelings
That would be a waste of my time and effort.Quote:
4. Reincarnation (unconscious of it)
That sounds good. Just not here on earth.Quote:
5. Reincarnation (conscious of it)
I've heard that's what mormons are promising. But while I wouldn't fear it, it holds no attraction to me. I'd probably just mingle with the creations, incognito.Quote:
6. Training to be a God
We're already in one of the levels of hell.Quote:
7. Hell
Yes, I'd really want to avoid that. It's bad enough being here now, I wouldn't want to stay with all the humans who make this world a miserable place.Quote:
8. living in a world similar to earth, but with people who died, for eternity
Quote:
9 (you may add more possibilities)
I'm scared of none of these because as I already said, I'm just not scared of things like this. I want to enjoy what I have left and I prefer destroying any stress.
When my grandma was on her death bed her last words were:
"Is this what it's like to die? Wow..." Apparently she was in awe as she passed on. Maybe she was doing it for the sake of the people around her. But why use your last words to be ingenuous? You would have to be a very manipulative person to do such a thing in the final moments of your life. I think she was being very genuine.
This is why we come back to visit frequently.Quote:
YOu WILL get bored of everything there is to do... because after all these years, there is still eternity... And then once your bored you get even more bored as the years go.... And once your bored for trillions of years, than it becomes a horrible torture. Than imagine trillions of years suffering from it. It would indeed become hell but instead of physical pain, mental pain. But then, there is still eternity to live. You just can't stop suffering and whatver you try to do to get rid of your boredome, you'd get bored of it one day.