fwoooosh!
The sound of the blatent being entirely too subtle, spoon.
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fwoooosh!
The sound of the blatent being entirely too subtle, spoon.
I'm sorry, how can you be a member of a monotheistic religion and say that? But you're completely dodging the point. Try to follow along.Quote:
Originally posted by Awaken4e1
All other god(s) little (g) are only Demigods with limited abilities, then are not true Supreme beings, only lesser gods...
- You said that nothing makes your religion better, its just that you have faith and know "the truth" because of this
- This means that you're taking faith as a proof of your religion
- Christianity is a monothestic religion
- Other religions believe in god as much as you do, but different gods. Vishnu is just as supreme and godly as yahweh
- People of other religions have faith in these gods (who they believe are not demigods and are not lesser than yahweh - as yahweh does not exist in their mythos)
- So you have a double standard when it comes to faith.
a) Your faith is proof of the truth of your religion
B) Other peoples faith is bunk, as your religion implies their gods do not exist, and as their religion imples that your god does not exist
So again Why is your faith any better than a hindu's, or any better than an atheist's lack of faith?
-spoon
edit: man I'm glad im going to kickboxing now.... and whoops im late
"spoon"Quote:
Originally posted by Awaken4e1
All other god(s) little (g) are only Demigods with limited abilities, then are not true Supreme beings, only lesser gods...
Quote:
I'm sorry, how can you be a member of a monotheistic religion and say that? But you're completely dodging the point. Try to follow along. [/b]
True.Quote:
You said that nothing makes your religion better; it’s just that you have faith and know [/b]
Quote:
(Who they believe are not demigods and are not lesser than - as Yahweh does not exist in their mythos) [/b]
Yes, He does, He is just called by a different name than Yahweh, same God as mine, only ‘one’ God different name….
Quote:
a) Your faith is proof of the truth of your religion
B) Other peoples faith is bunk, as your religion implies their gods do not exist, [/b]
Putting your words in my mouth, not possible…
No, your assumptionQuote:
So again Why is your faith any better than a Hindu’s, or any better than an atheist's lack of faith? [/b]
Some people are like M&M candies. They make the same sounds when conflicting with others and melt under the light. I'm not referring to anybody specific here (ok, I'm thinking that, though.... :? )
Honestly, when people say something like "if religion makes you happy, do it," I am unsatisfied with the sense that they really do not care to think about the content of religion or take it at all seriously.
The wages of sin is death....which is why we are all going to die anyway, unless one of us is wealthy enough to reserve a cryogenic preservation....but still, death will happen.
No. Yahweh, as described in the bible - the creator of the universe in 7 days, made adam and eve, drowned the whole world on a whim, gave those commandments to moses, etc - this god does not exist in any other mythos outside the abrahamic. You can't just take other people's gods and say "thats actually mine with another name so you're actually a christian". They're completely different.Quote:
Yes, He does, He is just called by a different name than Yahweh, same God as mine, only ‘one’ God different name…[/b]
And as for putting words in your mouth: if you cannot see how believing in a monotheistic religion automatically asumes disbelief in all other gods then there's really no point. Monotheism imples atheism in all but one god. Because of this, you can't just take faith is a proof of "the truth" - as your faith invalidates all other faiths.
So again, why is your faith any better than a person of a different religion? Or are all religions (and lack of religions) equally true because people have faith? In that case, I'll be an atheist - all the benefits none of the pointless worship.
-spoon
Many religious people (ok, awaken, I know you have an aversion to that word) don't really know what they're asking when they tell people you need faith. It often drives people away more than spark them to be even more curious, except for an intentional debate with no change in opinion.
Faith is the very pedestal that religionists put their power on, and it's conversely the very pedestal and reason why otherwise thinkers put down the belief of faith.
When people ask you why your faith is better than other faiths, they really have no intention of looking for a more credible belief, but to dumbfound people to be forced into deep thought for a credible answer...
:goodjob:Quote:
Originally posted by AirRick101
Many religious people (ok, awaken, I know you have an aversion to that word) don't really know what they're asking when they tell people you need faith. It often drives people away more than spark them to be even more curious, except for an intentional debate with no change in opinion.
Faith is the very pedestal that religionists put their power on, and it's conversely the very pedestal and reason why otherwise thinkers put down the belief of faith.
When people ask you why your faith is better than other faiths, they really have no intention of looking for a more credible belief, but to dumbfound people to be forced into deep thought for a credible answer...
No, I'm looking for a credible answer. None has ever been provided that I've seen.
Ok, so I have been listening to the bible (Book on tape LoL), and have some problems understanding Genesis.
One of my main questions is:
In Genesis, Humans and animals were made in a very narrow time frame (a day), so why are human remains only in the very top layer of the fossil record, when Dinosaur/other animal fossils are found in layers WAAAAY below humans? (Millions of years before humans that is)
I'm expecting a "you can't take the bible literally" answer.
:roll: :?:
God planted 'em there to test your faith.
Because animals where on the Earth a very long time ‘before man’ was formed. Man lived together with the animals for millions, and possibly billions of years, until he fell, and partook of death.Quote:
Originally posted by kai2424
Ok, so I have been listening to the bible (Book on tape LoL), and have some problems understanding Genesis.
One of my main questions is:
In Genesis, Humans and animals were made in a very narrow time frame (a day), so why are human remains only in the very top layer of the fossil record, when Dinosaur/other animal fossils are found in layers WAAAAY below humans? (Millions of years before humans that is)
I'm expecting a \"you can't take the bible literally\" answer.
:roll: :?:
Which as we recall man’s life span, even after the fall was 900+ years, the animals life span had to have been much shorter than that, so the animals would have began dieing hundreds of years before man began to die.
Because of their carnivores regression into the physical realm, plus man was a very small portion of the population of the Earth at that time.
Note: This application of time is only true after the fall of man.
2Pe 3:8 And this one thing let not be unobserved by you, beloved, that one day with the Lord is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day;
Remember this tells us how time progresses for God, and if ‘one day’ is a thousand years. This referring to one day (in man’s perception,) then how long is a thousand years to God?
I believe that referring to God’s day, is 1000 years for ‘one’ of his days, which tells us how long man lived before he fell. From the beginning of the ‘sixth day’ to the end of the seventh day are two (2) one thousand year days in God perception.
Then, man only lived ‘two God days’ before he began to die.
Awaken, could you show me how you came up with your calculation for "millions, possibly billions of years" and/or show me where in the bible (or other source) that you came up with that number? It doesn't seem to add up based on the information provided.Quote:
Originally posted by kimpossible+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kimpossible)</div>Kimpossible, I hope you're kidding LoL :roll:Quote:
God planted 'em there to test your faith.[/b]
<!--QuoteBegin-Awaken4e1
Because animals where on the Earth a very long time ‘before man’ was formed. Man lived together with the animals for millions, and possibly billions of years, until he fell, and partook of death. .
And while you're at it Rev, explain where dinosaurs fit in there. And perhaps touch on the fossil record.
I would like apologize to anyone who may take offence to the posting of scripture, but it is truly necessary.Quote:
Originally posted by kai2424
Awaken, could you show me how you came up with your calculation for \"millions, possibly billions of years\" and/or show me where in the bible (or other source) that you came up with that number? It doesn't seem to add up based on the information provided.
2Pe 3:8 And this one thing let not be unobserved by you, beloved, that one day with the Lord is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day;
one thousand years is one day (after the fall,) because there was not time until man fell.
So before the fall there where no corresponding references to measure time because there was no time.
From the formation of man to the fall of man, there was no time frame because man lived in eternity with God until he fell, and we have no point of reference to know how old man was because there was no time, so the animals , and man both could have been millions, or billions of what we consider years old.
Note: animals where formed before man, and lived without dead until man was formed, and then fell.
Gen 1:20 And God saith, `Let the waters teem with the teeming living creature, and fowl let fly on the earth on the face of the expanse of the heavens.'
Gen 1:21 And God prepareth the great monsters, and every living creature that is creeping, which the waters have teemed with, after their kind, and every fowl with wing, after its kind, and God seeth that it is good.
Gen 1:22 And God blesseth them, saying, `Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and the fowl let multiply in the earth:'
Gen 1:23 and there is an evening, and there is a morning--day fifth.
the great monsters
These are the dinosaurs...
Notice the animals where living before man without death, and science tell us that the Earth is billions years old, so time was not introducted unil the end the (sixth day)
Gen 1:26 And God saith, `Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness, and let them rule over fish of the sea, and over fowl of the heavens, and over cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that is creeping on the earth.'
Gen 1:31 And God seeth all that He hath done, and lo, very good; and there is an evening, and there is a morning--day the sixth.
Why dinosaur fossils appear millions of years before human fossils
Yet then you say:Quote:
Originally posted by awaken
Because animals where on the Earth a very long time ‘before man’ was formed. Man lived together with the animals for millions, and possibly billions of years, until he fell, and partook of death.
This does not solve the fossil problem. Dinosaurs appear ~70 million years ago, and we have fossils dating back many more million years. How did this happen is there was no death before the fall? And your claim...Quote:
Note: animals where formed before man, and lived without dead until man was formed, and then fell. [/b]
...is completely baseless,Quote:
From the formation of man to the fall of man, there was no time frame because man lived in eternity with God until he fell, and we have no point of reference to know how old man was because there was no time, so the animals , and man both could have been millions, or billions of what we consider years old. [/b]
We do have a point of reference to know how old man is, the ealiest homo sapien fossil being found 70 thousand years ago. Comparatively we have dinosaurs from 70 million years ago. That is a huge time gap.
Also note that the fossil age isn't the age of the animal when it died + time until now, as you seem to be implying. The fossil age is from when it was fossilized. Hence you saying that \"they could have been millions/billions of years old\" doesn't make a difference, as there could only be a ~900 year gap (using bible events/chronology) from the fall (where things started to die) to the first humans death.
A day is a thousand years:
Your quote, from the NT, should not have any bearing on the interpretation of the ancient hebrew text you call the OT. There is nothing, in the context of the OT, that suggests this is true. But ignoring that, there is still a few problems:
1. If a day is a thousand years in the eyes of god, is every reference to day to be interpreted as a thousand years? Did noah stay on his ark for ~150 thousand years, or 150 days? What is the criteria for determining where a day = a thousand years. Not the criteria \"it would invalidate my belief if it were a day, hence it is a thousand years\" is not really valid.
2. The context of genesis chapter 1 is clearly taking a day as a literal day. By the New English Translation (and similar is in every translation, you even quoted it) there is a passage at the end of each day
clearly showing that it is a literal day (seperated by an evening and morning). In this chapter of genesis there is "day", "night", "morning", "evening", "years" and "seasons". If a day was not a literal day, why use these terms? To keep it consistent there would have to be different interpretations for each of these terms (which you'll notice the OT or NT does not suply). Time is clearly normal in this chapter of genesisQuote:
There was evening, and there was morning, marking the first day[/b]
3. The commmandment to keep the sabbath clearly ties into the creation account, god created the universe in 6 days and rested on the 7th, we're supposed to do the same. Are we supposed to take a thousand years of rest every six thousand?
I hope I've shown how these two workarounds get you no further to aligning the bible with the overwhelming fossil evidence for evolution.
For the natural man recieveth not the things which are of God,neither 'can' he know them for they are spiritually discerned, so why even try?Quote:
Originally posted by spoon
I honestly don't know what you just said then, maybe you could respond to some of my points, or re-answer kai's question, since I've shown (and you didn't seem to rais any objections to) how your explanation didn't explain anything.
Quote:
Originally posted by kai2424
In Genesis, Humans and animals were made in a very narrow time frame (a day), so why are human remains only in the very top layer of the fossil record, when Dinosaur/other animal fossils are found in layers WAAAAY below humans? (Millions of years before humans that is)
Quote:
Originally posted by spoon
I honestly don't know what you just said then, maybe you could respond to some of my points, or re-answer kai's question, since I've shown (and you didn't seem to rais any objections to) how your explanation didn't explain anything.
hermeneutic-
the study of the general principles of biblical interpretation. For both Jews and Christians throughout their histories, the primary purpose of hermeneutics, and of the exegetical methods employed in interpretation, has been to discover the truths and values of the Bible.
In order for you to understand my reply you must first have a grasp the hermeneutic principle which is applied to all scripture in their corresponding interpretations. If you can not follow the set theme within the scripture, then you can not apply it to any other related scripture respectively. Most of these principles are within the context of the books being interpreted, and can not be haphazardly apply to any other scripture, unless the related hermeneutics apply with the context of the scripture be read.
You'll notice that you completely dodged the part of my post that requested a real reply, and responded to the one part that didn't need any response. But are you seriously saying for me to understand your 1 sentence reply,
, which is neither grammatically correct or really even a sentence I have to understand 1700 years of biblical exegesis? How about you user proper grammar, sentence structure, noun/adjective combinations (nature man....?) - then we can talk about how little I understand your point.Quote:
For the nature man recieveth not the things which are of God,neither 'can' he know them for they are spiritually discerned, so why even try? [/b]
After that, maybe you could point out the part where it was a valid response to any of my points?
And for the record, the golden rule in (biblical) Hermeneutics is: "If the Plain Sense Makes Common Sense, Seek No Other Sense." Which I believe I've shown your interpretation of genesis chapter 1 does not follow. Which you still haven't responded to
Typo corrected:
You are trying to apply a specific hermeneutic principle to a scripture where it can not be applied, so to continue under these assumptions are not possible, sorry. And until you can apply proper interpretation of these select scripture there will be no point in me replying to you requests.
-spoon (is looking foward to a re-answer to kai's question)Quote:
Originally posted by kai2424
Awaken, could you show me how you came up with your calculation for \"millions, possibly billions of years\" and/or show me where in the bible (or other source) that you came up with that number? It doesn't seem to add up based on the information provided.
Hey! I just realised I reposted the wrong question.
That would make more sense!Quote:
Originally posted by kai
In Genesis, Humans and animals were made in a very narrow time frame (a day), so why are human remains only in the very top layer of the fossil record, when Dinosaur/other animal fossils are found in layers WAAAAY below humans? (Millions of years before humans that is)
-spoon
Our survey says God, bing.bing,bing!,Quote:
Originally posted by Sifr
Now I'm not much one for blaspheming, but that last one made me laugh... *:wink:
What’ a we got for’m Johnny?
My name is not Johnny, and we don't really have anything for them at all. What's more important is that our ratings go up....
Nelson is King!Quote:
Originally posted by AirRick101
My name is not Johnny, and we don't really have anything for them at all. *What's more important is that our ratings go up....