Supressing the amygdala

From Science of Dreaming - Section 2 - Robert J Hoss


"Reports using PET scans indicated a greater sense of control over the dream (lucidity) when

the medial frontal cortex (involved in consciousness) was active, and a greater sense of the

dream being out of control when the amygdala (involved in emotional processing) was more

active."


I'm wondered if that would mean suppressing the amygdala in some way, would be a viable way

to gain more LD control (as opposed to the more common approach of increasing awareness).

Apparently Propranolol can suppress the amygdala -
Erasing Fear with Propranolol | Brain Blogger

And then found this -
*Link Removed*


But I, and I'm sure most people interested, would like a more common supplement to do the same suppressing trick as propranolol.. Thoughts?

Here's my question: if Galantamine already works well for inducing a lucid dream, then why dump Propranolol in on top of it? Is it merely as a confidence boost? I have a feeling that if someone is not getting lucid after trying Galantamine multiple times, then they need to work on their form a bit, because the drug is not the issue. It's a highly effective tool. I can see Propranolol being helpful for dream control, as it suppresses the fear centers, but otherwise it doesn't seem like that big of a deal. Also, comparing taking G and this other drug to "flipping" sort of sketches me out :D

Mucuna pruriens in low doses (according to Thomas Yuschak) can increase confidence in a lucid dream (and therefore control) by artificially raising dopamine levels. Is your primary concern lucidity or dream control?

what do you mean by "more common"?

you're basically looking for a beta blocker I guess

So the amygdala is part of the limbic system. It's not only involved with fear and aggression (fight or flight), but also your sex drive
a beta blocker blocks your receptors for (nor-)adrenalin aka (nor-)epinephrin
this mostly decreases your blood pressure, which is a good thing for people who don't have too low blood pressure anyway

I'm not sure if your hypothesis is right, because the amygdala is also important for vigilance, focus and attention, which - to me - sound like things you would need for LDing


I wouldn't consider taking drugs if you don't really need them anyway. If you got anxiety and high blood pressure, sure, take your beta blockers, but if your life is A-okay and all you're looking for is a nice adventure in your dreams, I wouldn't take drugs.
after all, it still goes through your system, effects your liver during the first-pass metabolism and ultimately changes your whole body

Thanks for the quick replies, both.
But I'm already pretty well set in regards to both amount of LDs and control in them, but my interest got stirred by this part of the quote -

".. and a greater sense of the dream being out of control when the amygdala (involved in emotional processing) was more active."

Because although I have read both papers from Yuschak, I didn't recall him mentioning Mucuna as a source of control (thanks ThreeCat), so I couldn't for the life of me think of a single supplement that promised increased control (as opposed to the dozen or so that increases chances of lucidity) until now.

@Conscience
My idea of 'more common' is a none prescription supplement ie. something more readily available like a food or drink.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RiftMeUp

Thanks for the quick replies, both.
But I'm already pretty well set in regards to both amount of LDs and control in them, but my interest got stirred by this part of the quote -

".. and a greater sense of the dream being out of control when the amygdala (involved in emotional processing) was more active."

Because although I have read both papers from Yuschak, I didn't recall him mentioning Mucuna as a source of control (thanks ThreeCat), so I couldn't for the life of me think of a single supplement that promised increased control (as opposed to the dozen or so that increases chances of lucidity) until now.

@Conscience
My idea of 'more common' is a none prescription supplement ie. something more readily available like a food or drink.

---

I can see how that parallels with real life situtations. If your anger or fear take over you are not in control of yourself and your actions. The same applies to dreaming. You can have a lucid dream but if you are paralized by fear of, say, scary DCs attacking you, you are less likely to be able to direct their actions the way you would prefer. I really don't think taking a drug is the way to resolve this issue, really.

Lucid dreaming is the act of taking control over the dream situation and I don't mean mere manipulation. This has to be a conscious act, an act of realizing, learning, and doing. You have to be aware of what is going on, that there is nothing to be afraid of (for example), you have to understand the process of how this happens precisely, how all your inner elements fit together to result in the dream scene you are experiencing and finally you have to act upon those realizations. By practicing this you would develop much more than you would from taking an anxiety pill. And the control you would gain wouldn't just be dream control, the knowledge that you gain from this can ultimately be applied to anything in real life.

The amygdala causes quick emotional reactions to things, usually negative and that of fear. The way to suppress it is to increase activity in the frontal lobes and prefrontal cortex. These lobes are "newer" than they amygdala. Therein lies the challenge. The frontal lobe and PFC's position in the brain make it take longer for these signals to be responded to than it does for the amygdala, which is near the center of the brain. However, when you use logic to overcome your fears, you can train your brain to bypass signals sent from the amygdala. For instance, if storms used to scare you as a child, but now you like it when it storms, you have accomplished this. You know logically that if you are inside, you will be fine, and that the thunder is just a violent expansion of air from being superheated by electricity (lightning).

So, in a dream, your amygdala is more active if you are having a nightmare or you simply are not lucid. But if you are lucid and perform mental tasks that incorporate logic, like doing math problems or even narrating your LD in your head by saying what is happening as it is happening, you probably are activating the frontal lobes more, which in turn is going to cause less activity in the amygdala.

I'm quite surprised meditation isn't mentioned in this topic. One of the greater long-term benefits of (mindfulness) meditation includes the shrinking of the amygdala, and at the same time, the pre-frontal cortex grows in size. This was shown on MRI scans after subjects went through an 8-week mindfulness course.

So you don't need stuff like Propranol, with meditation you will physically change your brain, and at the same time you will gain more awareness, which is ofcourse helpful for getting lucid.

The research: PLOS ONE: Dispositional Mindfulness Co-Varies with Smaller Amygdala and Caudate Volumes in Community Adults
If you don't like to read through the whole research: What Does Mindfulness Meditation Do to Your Brain? - Guest Blog - Scientific American Blog Network