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Wake:REM:NREM ratio changes across lifespan
http://thesleepcycle.com/wp-content/...vertimejpg.jpg
hypnogram of a young adult (~25 years old)
http://thesleepcycle.com/wp-content/...onogramjpg.jpg
hypnogram of an elderly individual (~75 years old)
http://thesleepcycle.com/wp-content/...ntologyjpg.jpg
Original website (full article)
http://thesleepcycle.com/sleep-over-a-lifetime/
the good news:
if you learn LD when you're young, you will master it when you're old
+
I don't care about what they're saying.
in my opinion when people retire they should change thier sleep pattern to polyphasic sleeping
Sleep (or how to hack your brain) + Dustin Curtis
Seeing as most of us are past the big-ass 2 year drop but still LDing, I don't think there's much of a problem. :P
I agree with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Puffin
I would like to see the same chart among active dreamers. Is this inevitable? Or can it be resisted through willpower and practice?
i may tend to think that it is inevitable because you no longer dream as when you were a baby ? so , and what do you call active dreamers ? because no matter what you remember or not you ALWAYS dream at night i think that polyphasic sleep is the solution to the lack of rem sleep
Yeah that's one way to keep your REM periods up. You don't need to retire, necessarily, though you do need about 2 weeks to a month off anything in order to acclimate.Quote:
Originally Posted by wana
If I don't die young I'm going to resist this natural process. :shadewink:
Considering the time dilation with dreams vs. real time, I think we'll get plenty of dream time to enjoy our LDing :)
Heh it's a shame we can't learn about lucid dreaming before we're 2!! I'm actually a little surprised that REM doesn't taper off more with age... looks like a 25 year old gets about an hour a night and a 90 year old about 45 minutes. Not bad a'tall!!
And now I see why I can't seem to get more than 6 hours' sleep a night!! Hell, it's all I'm supposed to get!! Time to switch my WBTW to the 4 hour mark.
Another reason to be jealous of the naturals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkmatters
I wonder if anybody does lucid dream at that age? I wonder if the brain's underdeveloped state allows it?
At 2? Nah, my guess is no because the brain is too underdeveloped to even recognise that you're dreaming. I'm thinking maybe around 4 - 6 that child may be able to pick it up naturally. At that age they most likely have no idea what's happening, however if this state remains constant until pre-adolescent then they become natural lucid dreamers I would believe. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkmatters
all i know is that my children are going to know about lucid dreaming early enough , and if shared dreaming is realy real and is stable i will extend thier education in thier heads
Fast fact: We don't only dream during REM sleep.
Fast Fact #2: There are ways of increasing the amount of REM sleep that we get. One of these ways is to get more sleep. (REM periods lengthen, the more hours of sleep that you get. That chart doesn't seem to depict the difference of sleep patterns between the average child and the average adult.) I'm almost thirty, and I'm still able to have enough vivid dreams to write full-page entries for single dreams, and have multiple dreams per night. Hell, I don't know if I could handle anymore REM sleep, when it comes to jotting down journal entries. :P
The bad thing about graphs and statistics is that they usually show a very narrow view of a much broader topic. Case in point. :wink:
(from my experience i think that nrem dreams are thoughts because one time i had a dream that i doubted writing down because it was so thought - like , ) its just me if im wrong correct me
Nicely said. :clap: All hail Oneironaut!Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneironaut
Good i learned about his now because i have about 60 years of lucid dreaming left. :)
Well, we have 'hypnagogic' and 'hypnopompic' imagery as well, which are those fleeting 'whisps' of dreams/visualizations that we get when we're either on the verge of falling asleep or waking up. They aren't quite those full-blown, 'deep' dreams, like when we are in REM. These do get stronger, in actual, non-REM sleep, though. So, in essense, we do still dream in non-REM sleep, but whether or not you want to call them 'dreams' (on the same level as REM dreams) is a matter of semantics, I suppose. I would still count them as dreams, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by wana
I know what you're talking about though wanna - I have had dreams that are basically just a stream of thoughts. I think these were nREM dreams. But there may well be other types of nREM dreams as well, such as the half-formed ones O is talking about. Or sometimes just a picture I'm looking at that isn't even moving.
Just remembered - I've also had dreams that consist of nothing but hearing a song - sometimes a part of a song over and over.
That is truly awesome, I am deffinetly doing that when I am old.Quote:
Originally Posted by wana
Like I said on another thread, it is possible (no matter the age) to 'mold' your brain, so if you do more lucid dreaming, your rem period will get larger and larger (I'm sure someone put a proof of that).
I'm doing fine and I hope to stay that way. ;)
I think I know why my dreams seem so dull. Probably because their nREM dreams. My dreams feel like memories, I never really felt I was there, but I remember them. With my lucid dream, after I wake up, I'm like woah, that was so different then my normal dreams. And also I felt I was there during lucid dreams.
I've already known this, and it did make me sad when I found out But really, I think that there isn't THAT big of a difference once you're an adult. And you can always WILD. :P Besides, take into account how much old people sleep...
Fun fact: afternoon naps are almost entirely REM ;)
Can you tell me how this works and usually how many hours after you wake up to take that nap?
thanks for the information, either way we still be dreamin'
That awkward moment when you're almost 20 and can't decide which of the first two options to pick.
I would pick 20-40 if your birthday occurs within 2 months from now. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by AngelZlayer
that would be fabulous if i had a dream journal when i was an infant 2-10 yrs and i am sure that a society that considers infant lucid dreaming would be great and less violent as our societies are these days ,imagine the child doing all his hoomework and then going to bed earky awaiting his lucid adventures , s-he wakes up in the morning goes at school tell his friends about those stories and even uses them in his english compositions
:cackle: That would be amazing.Quote:
Originally Posted by wana
This is stupid. The fall from 10 years to 50 is virtually nothing. And even then, at 90, there is no reason you couldn't LD unless your memory is shot.
Hasn't this been mentioned before anyway?
All I know is that im 22 and dream like a mother f@#ker. I feel like I still dream the same amount as a kid.
God, I'm only 20 and I get the same category as the 49ers. I've never felt so old.
The chart is super misleading. I sleep 10 hours a day most days. Trying to fit lucid dreamers into a pattern set by the majority of people when the majority of people do not lucid dream is just...uninformative.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robot_Butler
You can have lucid dreams outside of REM, you can sleep more than average, you can even meditate and have "OBE"s (which are the same thing) during waking states. The average amount of sleep for average people is irrelevant.
Calm down, an old man like you might hurt his heart if he gets too panicked. Go and sit down, put ya feet up, and think of good ol' memories back in the day.Quote:
Originally Posted by FancyRat
Lol 20 is nothing, you know that. Its just this chart is crap, the fall is so little there is no need to add an age gap in between.
My dreams feel the same way, I don't feel as if I'm actually there either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raetin
Is there anyway to correct it?
Do your REM dreams feel like your Lucids?
I know what you mean, I'm 21 and I already have like 20 grey hairs.Quote:
Originally Posted by FancyRat
Okay I did as you said but I fell asleep and had a nice dream of the good old times. Haven't felt so young in 2 years!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Loaf
Lol, I don't know if you're being serious or not but that's exactly true for me so I hope you are in a wicked way :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevorm7
It's actually closer to 25-30 greys, it's a patch of them on the front left side of my head.
lol, are you counting? A patch is kinda cool though, very sage like. Mine are just scattered.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevorm7
Hah, im 22 and I still look really young. I got stogs the other day and the guy IDed me and I was like dude im 22, and I was like how old do I look 18? And he's like yea you can pass for an 18 year old lol. I told him its all good, cuz when im 50 I'll look like im in my 40S hahah. I only look older when I grow my facial hair out, but I still dont have a full beard yet. Got a little ways to go.
Just estimating, I couldn't get an accurate number unless I counted them as I plucked them until they were all gone. Rain Man probably could count them with a glance though.Quote:
Originally Posted by FancyRat
When I was little I had lucid dreams all the time but I had no control. I wish I knew about lucid dreaming back then or else I would have did some really fun stuff in my dreams ^^
haha. The most common age people think I am when buying alcohol etc. is 16. I'm 21! lol One girl thought I was 14 or so....Quote:
Originally Posted by NrElAx
Probably my lack of facial hair. Still doesn't grow anywhere except around the jaw area lol
Yeah, this, completely. I also sleep 10 hours a night whenever I can help it. And if I'm very motivated (and people don't call me-- *glares at Jeff* ) I can WILD pretty much whenever I feel like it. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaqaria
Hahah yea, I'll probably get carded for alcohol for a loooong time. I actually didnt really start getting a lot of facial hair till this past year. So like halfway through the year after turning 21 basically. I mean, I've had hair all over my face for the past few years, but it was mostly scattered, except for my chin, which has the most hair. I can grow a pretty decent goatee at the moment. Everytime I shave now, It seems like i get more and more facial hair. I actually look forward to facial hair cuz it looks good on me.Quote:
Originally Posted by tommo
Naiya and xaquaria i think you enter into a second category of sleepers because i believe there are two of em like my bro can extend his sleep very long whilst i am programmed to awake at six when i sleep early and at eight when i sleep late ill get a blog/wesite on that later
I can also sleep for a longtime. I have to have a clock visible from my bed or I'd easily sleep 12 hours, even more, just keep falling back asleep with no clue if the time was getting ridiculous. As said, I'm not even a teenager anymore either.
I doubt the scientific veracity in the first place and in the second, how is that bad news for any of us?Quote:
Originally Posted by wana
having less rem is having leess dreams and we remember (untrained) onedream per night having five so old having three means like maybe remembering only one per two days
I realy don't care who believes me but My first dream which I could remember and would never foget was on I had when I was about nine months. I was in this large room with an equally large window. It was night and I looked up into the sky which was bright, filled with stars and It had a fish in the sky a huge fish, Then I was Santa Clause crossing the sky. that was the whole dream. How do i know i was bout 9mts, because I still had on diapers and I could of seen myself sitting there. by the age of 6yrs I was having vivid nightmearsQuote:
Originally Posted by Quantiq
lucid since birth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wana
I think I can make a good argument that this entire life and everything in it is a dream. I think it would be very difficult for a 2 year old to comprehend this, but it would seem to me that as we age, we can discover much more. REM is a state wherein we are usually not aware, but then so again is all of life.
Another fun fact: Galantamine is used in the treatment of both Dementia and Alzheimers (and we all know what effect those have on nocturnal wanderings), but considering the amount of effort and time LDers put into training memory, I believe those conditions won't ever be a problem.
No. Before getting into LDing I remembered 2 dreams a month, at my best now I can remember 5 a night. What you're saying takes no account of the individual differences arising from practice and sleep patterns.Quote:
Originally Posted by wana
Like Xaqaria and Naiya I get about 9-10 hours of sleep quite often, and I'm starting to have natural brief awakenings where I can easily recall dreams.
I don't think you can draw conclusions from graphs that weren't intended to take LDing into account.
Thats why i said untrained mr ctharlie
And? Is that supposed to justify your unfounded assertion?Quote:
Originally Posted by wana
In fact that's what I'm taking issue with, it's a massive generalisation. Who's 'we'? What's your sources that remembering one dream a night is the average?Quote:
we remember (untrained) onedream per night
I said you weren't taking individual differences into account and you counter by reiterating your original statement?
We're not robots, so hypnograms can be very inaccurate from person to person. Even besides that fact, if you look at the chart, REM sleep doesn't change that much. I'm guessing as we age, we'll probably be more like polomorphic sleepers. Sure we sleep less, nap more, but we can still get lucid just as often as long as we have our minds and memories in tact. And not to brag or anything, but I only need about one REM period a day to WILD :P
:shadewink: i intended to make a global fact OUR REM PERIODS GET SHORTER AS WE GET OLDER THESE HYPNOGRAMS ARE JUST INFORMAL I KNOW THAT THEY VARY
THATS ALL I WANTED TO DO AND I ALSO SAID THAT NON LUCID PEOPLE REMEMBER LESSER DREAMS THAN LUCID DREAMERS/DREAM JOURNAL WRITERS SO..