New polyphasic sleep pattern

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Originally Posted by tendomentis

I must have presented myself wrong. I'm not trying to claim I've invented some daring new schedule. Polyphasic sleep patterns have existed long before little ol' me, and will long after I'm gone, so I'm sure that almost any and every variation of sleep schedule any of us could come up with has already been tried and tested.

If I offended anyone by asking if I could name the variant I'm using, I apologize. Aside from the lucidman variant, I hadn't seen anyone else name any other triphasic sleep schedules, and as almost every other sleep schedule has a "proper" name, I felt it only "proper" that this variant have a name too. I won't mention it again though on this forum.

As far as REM conditioning, I guess I got off lucky as my last two 1 hour sleep cycles did involve dreaming (just not the lucid variety yet).

I know this forum is mainly for lucid dreaming conversation (which I'm obviously also very much involved/interested in), so I'll refrain from taking up anyone's time with my thoughts on alternative sleep schedules.

Again, sorry to have offended.

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You certainly havent offended me in the least, so no need for apologies. I know said you wont mention the name again (not important to me either way), but I just wanted to give you a heads up on how it generally works. The sleeping schedules that have names: uberman, everyman, and dymaxion, are the schedules that have worked for people for a sustained period of time. So, unless you have successfully been using a schedule for at least like six months (preferably a year or more), it is probably not correct to name it.

As far as this forum goes, yes it is mainly for lucid dreaming, but it also covers a lot of other sleep and non sleep topics. This topic is under the sleep and dream section, not the lucid dreaming section. Furthermore, the topic is alternative sleep patterns. My point is that you can talk all you want about alternative sleep schedules because that is what this particular topic is for. No need to refrain. :)

Agreed, no need to refrain. I'm a mod, so if anybody says anything, just blame me for saying it's cool :P
Besides, it really is fine - this is in a non-LD section anyway.

As for naming your schedule, I don't see the harm really.
It's not like you're claiming it to be groundbreaking - you're just finding something that works for you and giving it an alias you like.

Update:
As for the 'lucidman' schedule (see, that isn't a 'proven' schedule, and it has an alias :P)
I took my first dual nap a few mins ago. It was a bit late... so I'm going to have to stop screwing around with the times.
Woke up feeling fairly good, although the car was a bit hot.

Bit of background info: I'm using an mp3 player with my polynapping mp3 (on my site <here>, although the version I'm using is not listed)
The earphones are those earbud types (the ones that go in your ear .. and plug into your brain stem :P)
And I'm using a sleep mask that I've drastically modified to cut out light as well as possible.

I'm sleeping in the car at lunchtime, or in the basement when that's not an option.
At home, I usually nap on the floor, however if it's for 2 naps at a time.. um.. I'll see how it goes if I just switch sides.

Okay, I realize that my over-eagerness probably is what offended. I'll keep my trap shut about the variant I'm on and what I'm calling it until I've got at least a month under my belt with it. After all, what it's called is hardly important if it doesn't actually WORK :)

I'll still be posting updates on my blog, but I won't bother the forum with any details about it until I've had more time to win or fail at it.

I don't see anybody taking offence - I just see miscommunication :)
You're welcome to post a thread here with your progress... others are.
But you have a blog anyway, so I suppose it makes more sense to do it there.

It makes sense to have some presence here though, because I'm doing your schedule too

Understood.

I don't want to accidentally step on anyone's toes though. My blog has daily updates, so I suppose if anyone is interested in the day to day "as I figure it out" notes, that would be the place to read.

Next month I'll start a thread here with the results of the trial period. If it works, someone else might find it useful.

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Originally Posted by Placebo

I don't see anybody taking offence - I just see miscommunication :)
You're welcome to post a thread here with your progress... others are.
But you have a blog anyway, so I suppose it makes more sense to do it there.

It makes sense to have some presence here though, because I'm doing your schedule too

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I agree. You are more than welcome to update your progress here. It's all up to you but an idea might be to keep a more detailed account of your adaptation on your blog, and just give us a less detailed update whenever you feel like.

Honestly, I've been through the detailed blog thing before, and I'm just not up to doing it again.
So I'm not likely to give a thorough hourly report :)

Hey, guys!
I'm new to posting, but have been reading quite a lot in the recent weeks. I have been trying actualy, the Uberman sleep schedule, but failed miserably several times.
Now I think I'm going to try the Trinity sleep schedule doing 1 hour naps. It suits me just right, something the Uberman couldn't do.
I'm a student and I have classes in the morning from 9 to 11:15-12:00, then have about 2 hours of free time and class again from 14:00 to about 16:00-16:30. A Uberman could be integrated, but I personally don't like the small cycle of 4 hours. That is why I have now chosen the Trinity sleep pattern. I was thinking about something like that myself, bigger intervals and longer naps, but never gave it much thought. Now, however, I see that others are using it, so I'll try it and see how it goes. Kudos to tendomentis, btw :D .
Right now it's 01:50 AM, GMT +2; and I felt veeery sleepy a few minutes ago. Right now I'm feeling ok, not that sleepy, but still very eye-heavy. The previous times I have tried alternate sleep patterns (Uberman), I didn't fail because I didn't want to get up or somth., I simply didn't get up at all. No recollection of alarm going off at all, so I'm afraid that I might again oversleep at one point or another. There are still good 2 hours till my next nap, so i'll have to keep my mind busy with something interesting, and no movies and games, those are simply dreamcasters for me :)
Ok, so, that's it for now, I'll post tonight, or maybe tomorrow. And excuse my randomness, I'm just very tired, haven't slept right for more than a week. ANd excuse my bad English, I'm Bulgarian :)

Welcome, and good luck ;)
And your reasons are pretty much the same as most people doing uberman (either can't do it, or the napping every 4 hours just isn't convenient)

Update on my own progress: The night is going well. I've found a routine that works wonderfully for this lucidman schedule, that could never be done on uberman.

Namely, make yourself a flask of coffee, have the first nap, wake up and drink the coffee, go wash your face, whatever... THEN take the second nap
(ie. your second nap becomes a caffiene nap - caffiene kicks in roughly when you're meant to wake anyway)

In case you're wondering, you can't do this on uberman, because caffiene has a 4 hours *half*life... so you'll be constantly caffiene spiked - bad for your next nap.
However on lucidman, you have 8 hours between naps :D

Oh, and playing some intense online games doesn't hurt either. I planned on doing some exercise, but so far not necessary

@_massive

Congrats one giving it a try. I'm on day three, and I can report that it DOES get easier (you just have to suffer through the first few days, just like the uberman). As for those last few hours at the end of your waking cycle, what I can recommend is to stay ACTIVE.

For example, the 2am-4am time period I've left reserved for my daily chores (cleaning bathrooms, folding laundry, cleaning the kitchen, sorting my mail, etc). Whatever you do, don't sit down. Seriously. You'll black out and wake up hours later not even really conscious of what just happened.

When 4am hits, then you can lie down...and you'll be out like an electric light in the 14th century. Remember to put your alarm clock on the other side of the room, that way you actually have to get UP to turn it off.

Good luck :) I really wish you all the best. I'm very hopeful that this schedule works for me as it is so much more convenient than the uberman schedule.

Thx man, I really find it hard to not close my eyes if I'm sitting down. I'll try to keep myself busy. And I'll have to get a desent alarm clock, the one on mt mobile doesn't seem to be annoying enough. Maybe one of those old bell-monsters would do the trick.
Whoa, I really am tired, but there is just an hour and 20 minutes left to my 4 am nap :) Yay! Hope I wake up :bowdown:

I am going to be starting a polyphasic schedule probably on saturday or sunday. So thanks for the updates everyone. Very helpful information, especially since I have yet to decide exactly what schedule I want to do. Keep those updates coming.

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Originally Posted by _massive

Thx man, I really find it hard to not close my eyes if I'm sitting down. I'll try to keep myself busy. And I'll have to get a desent alarm clock, the one on mt mobile doesn't seem to be annoying enough. Maybe one of those old bell-monsters would do the trick.
Whoa, I really am tired, but there is just an hour and 20 minutes left to my 4 am nap :) Yay! Hope I wake up :bowdown:

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You're doing well, just keep moving.

Don't
sit
down.

That's the mantra I use between 2am and 4am. If you can sleep near your computer, download an alarm clock for your computer, preferably one where you can set custom alarm noises, then you can use random noises and songs to help wake yourself up.

Darn, I overslept again. I woke up in 7 am, 2 hours late. But this time it's my fault, I was just too lazy to get out of bet. I had to get up to get the alarm though. Then I thought I will lay in bed for just a minute and... woke up 2 hours later :roll: with my mobile in my hand. But I was overlysleepy earlier, maybe because I'm doing something like everyman for almost a week now. I'll keep trying, I won't give up. I just feel awful after oversleeping, feel like a baby. Tonight I'm determined not to oversleep. We'll see how it goes.

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Originally Posted by _massive

Darn, I overslept again. I woke up in 7 am, 2 hours late. But this time it's my fault, I was just too lazy to get out of bet. I had to get up to get the alarm though. Then I thought I will lay in bed for just a minute and... woke up 2 hours later :roll: with my mobile in my hand. But I was overlysleepy earlier, maybe because I'm doing something like everyman for almost a week now. I'll keep trying, I won't give up. I just feel awful after oversleeping, feel like a baby. Tonight I'm determined not to oversleep. We'll see how it goes.

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Don't sweat it, I did the same thing two days ago. The important thing is to keep sticking to the schedule, even when you accidentally oversleep. Your body just needs to get into the rythm, and the rest is just willpower.

I'm in the 2am-4am zone myself now, and I'm doing all I can to stay busy.

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Originally Posted by tendomentis

I must have presented myself wrong. I'm not trying to claim I've invented some daring new schedule. Polyphasic sleep patterns have existed long before little ol' me, and will long after I'm gone, so I'm sure that almost any and every variation of sleep schedule any of us could come up with has already been tried and tested.

If I offended anyone by asking if I could name the variant I'm using, I apologize. Aside from the lucidman variant, I hadn't seen anyone else name any other triphasic sleep schedules, and as almost every other sleep schedule has a "proper" name, I felt it only "proper" that this variant have a name too. I won't mention it again though on this forum.

As far as REM conditioning, I guess I got off lucky as my last two 1 hour sleep cycles did involve dreaming (just not the lucid variety yet).

I know this forum is mainly for lucid dreaming conversation (which I'm obviously also very much involved/interested in), so I'll refrain from taking up anyone's time with my thoughts on alternative sleep schedules.

Again, sorry to have offended.

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No offence. I mean it is useful to refer to it as trinity schedule for the sake of referencing so we know what your talking about. its all good...

Anyway, I should be on an overseas holiday, but I'm not because my dad has taken ill and is in hospital. So I am going to stay home, today is day 1 of lucidman schedule and i am currently in the graveyard shift, between 2AM and 9AM. I feel absolutely fine because I foresaw a problem and decided to have a rather long afternoon nap. I also spent most of the night versing my friend in PS2 which is not very physically demanding. I will have to see how I go over the next few days to see if it is a success.

tendomentis, I've been thinking, if your sleeping schedule works, it's essentially just as good as lucidman because you are getting total 3 hours sleep (+30 minutes total laying in bed time) which is only 30 minutes more than lucidman which is 2 hours (+1 hour of laying in bed). So, it may be just as good, maybe even better, depending on how refreshed you feel.

@_massive
I don't want to blow your esteem, but at the moment, you seem to be having trouble and maybe trinity schedule is not great for starters (I take it you are a beginner). Don't go beating yourself up over failing the schedule because what you are attempting is hard for alternative sleepers let alone people who are monophasic. IMO, you should stick with a regular triphasic schedule of 1.5 hour naps and maybe a 3 hour nap at night if you wish. This will be easier than what you are trying to do at the moment because you already naturally complete a sleep cycle after 90 minutes so it is easier to wake up. Once you have cut down to 3 1.5 hour naps and you feel a bit more adventurous, then try to reduce your naps to 1 hour each.

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Originally Posted by _massive

Darn, I overslept again. I woke up in 7 am, 2 hours late. But this time it's my fault, I was just too lazy to get out of bet. I had to get up to get the alarm though. Then I thought I will lay in bed for just a minute and... woke up 2 hours later :roll: with my mobile in my hand. But I was overlysleepy earlier, maybe because I'm doing something like everyman for almost a week now. I'll keep trying, I won't give up. I just feel awful after oversleeping, feel like a baby. Tonight I'm determined not to oversleep. We'll see how it goes.

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Originally Posted by tendomentis

Don't sweat it, I did the same thing two days ago. The important thing is to keep sticking to the schedule, even when you accidentally oversleep. Your body just needs to get into the rythm, and the rest is just willpower.

I'm in the 2am-4am zone myself now, and I'm doing all I can to stay busy.

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Originally Posted by luke

@_massive
I don't want to blow your esteem, but at the moment, you seem to be having trouble and maybe trinity schedule is not great for starters (I take it you are a beginner). Don't go beating yourself up over failing the schedule because what you are attempting is hard for alternative sleepers let alone people who are monophasic. IMO, you should stick with a regular triphasic schedule of 1.5 hour naps and maybe a 3 hour nap at night if you wish. This will be easier than what you are trying to do at the moment because you already naturally complete a sleep cycle after 90 minutes so it is easier to wake up. Once you have cut down to 3 1.5 hour naps and you feel a bit more adventurous, then try to reduce your naps to 1 hour each.

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I have to agree with luke here guys. Your health is more important than proving you have a strong will. Even just having the guts to try a new schedule like this shows an immense amount of willpower, and no one would question your willpower if you have to take a break and try a sleeping schedule where you commit more time to sleep.

STICKING to your schedule is VERY IMPORTANT during the first week or two of adaption. When you oversleep, miss a nap, etc during this time it is believed that you are pushing adaptation to the schedule further and further back. Sleep deprivation is not healthy for you. Taking a few days to adapt is bad, but so are a lot of other things that we force ourselves to do. Sleep deprivation for a month or more can be very bad for you though.

With that being said, I believe you could oversleep once or twice (if it isnt much of an oversleep) and still adapt fairly quickly causing no long term ill effects to your health. But if a slip up is happening once or twice a week and you never get a solid 2 weeks minimum of strict adherence to your schedule than I would take some time and seriously think about the consequences.

Most of you have probably heard of puredoxyk. If you havent read her site (www.puredoxyk.com), read it! There is a lot of good information there.

CLICK THIS LINK It is puredoxyk's preview to her book. Go to the disclaimer on page 6 and READ it. You'll have to zoom by hitting the plus button to read it. Pay specific attention to number 2.

I obviously dont know when all of you change from schedule to schedule, but I agree with puredoxyk's advice on what to do when starting up a new schedule after a failed attempt or after not completely adapting to the old one. She says to make sure you take a break and get a few days of solid sleep in. For most that probably means recharging your battery with 7-8 hours of sleep for a few days and take a few naps too if you like. Only after taking a few days off should you try to get back on a new schedule and adapt again.

As always, best of luck to everyone and their schedules. I am thinking about getting on a lucidman/everyman variation when I start a polyphasic schedule again here in the next few days. More information on that later.

Yeah, puredoxyk is definitely one of the sites to look at about polyphasing.
On the lucidman thing, I'm doing well on it now. It has a lot of perks. Of course it's early days though.

BTW, and this is for everyone: careful about posting links to other sites. The admins aren't very keen on unapproved advertising. I'm turning a blind eye to it, purely because I know you mean well, I know puredoxyk is a good reference site, and you've been posting here about polyphasing for a little while now.
Next time, just pop me a PM first, checking with me, k?

ahh point take, didn't realize that was not allowed... is that a forum rule? if so, i should read those a little closer when i have some time. It makes complete sense anyway, this is just the first forum that I have ever started posting on.

Placebo, are u sticking to your everyman schedule but only sleeping in back to back 20 minutes increments with a normal 3 hour core? I'm curious as to how you are implementing the lucidman exactly.

No, following lucidman exactly, cold turkey. Successful for the last 2 days now.

I failed on the first two days, but once you put a coffee nap as your second nap, it's easy to push yourself through the adapation (or so it seems so far)
The nice thing about this schedule is that the caffiene is more or less out your system by the time your next nap rolls around, so no side effects there. In theory.

Dang man that's pretty rough.

I'm not sure what to think about coffee during an adaptation of a schedule like this. I would think it would make it a lot easier to adapt with hopefully no negative effects, so I'm not sure why some people say to avoid coffee at all costs during adaptation. I just hope your body doesnt rely on it, and u don't feel like crap when you dont have coffee after the adaptation.

The reason they tell you to avoid coffee, is because it has a 4 hours half-life, as I understand. This means that on uberman, you're never really over the caffiene, and this affects your sleep quality negatively.

On lucidman, it's essentially uberman, but you don't have that problem. So caffiene away! (timed well of course)

But we'll see if I'm still left standing in a weeks time before I proclaim a potential breakthrough :)

BTW, I forgot to mention that although I'm doing cold turkey, I still soak in the bath in the mornings for up to an hour. That's a bit of a cheat I guess, and can be considered my 'easing into it', even though it's not proper sleep.

I am going to be attempting my own variation. a 30 min nap every 6 hours. I will be trying this for the next month. I'll keep you all updated by posting the results in a seperate thread.

so

|4:00-4:30am|10:00-10:30am|4:00pm-4:30pm|10:00-10:30pm|

I estimate it will take 5 minutes or so to get to sleep so thats 2 hours and 20 minutes down for every 24 hour block. This is going to be a royal pain in the ass to adjust too but I think it'll be worth the effort if I can make it work, if not I am going to try the traditional uberman schedule (20min nap every 4 hours)

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Originally Posted by Neeros

I am going to be attempting my own variation. a 30 min nap every 6 hours. I will be trying this for the next month. I'll keep you all updated by posting the results in a seperate thread.

so

|4:00-4:30am|10:00-10:30am|4:00pm-4:30pm|10:00-10:30pm|

I estimate it will take 5 minutes or so to get to sleep so thats 2 hours and 20 minutes down for every 24 hour block. This is going to be a royal pain in the ass to adjust too but I think it'll be worth the effort if I can make it work, if not I am going to try the traditional uberman schedule (20min nap every 4 hours)

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How is this "your own variation"? This is dymaxion. And how do you need 5 minutes to go to sleep, after the first day you will need under a minute. Better check in google for dymaxion, it is a real hard schedule, but definitely doable. Gl.

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Originally Posted by Neeros

I am going to be attempting my own variation. a 30 min nap every 6 hours. I will be trying this for the next month. I'll keep you all updated by posting the results in a seperate thread.

so

|4:00-4:30am|10:00-10:30am|4:00pm-4:30pm|10:00-10:30pm|

I estimate it will take 5 minutes or so to get to sleep so thats 2 hours and 20 minutes down for every 24 hour block. This is going to be a royal pain in the ass to adjust too but I think it'll be worth the effort if I can make it work, if not I am going to try the traditional uberman schedule (20min nap every 4 hours)

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If you're not already polyphasic, you might have better luck starting with 45 minute naps every 6 hours, then after you have that down you can scrape the naps down to 30 minutes (Dymaxion).

Dymaxion is HARD though...even the inventor of it only kept it up for two years.