Hmm. Apparently my answers and clarifications did more harm than good.
Let me try one more time:
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Originally Posted by
LouaiB
Thank you very much! OK I've think I've gotten out of the tough spot, if these few paragraphs ahead aren't more misconceptions from me
You may still be in a tough spot, Louai; let's see if we can't wriggle you a bit loose.
Before I start, let me note that it seems you have simply exchanged the term "RRC" with "self-awareness." That is not a good idea. The questions and (far more important) the wondering of the RRC are the only tools here, and they are meant to help establish a moment of self-awareness -- that may sound like they are meant to trigger lucidity, but that is not really the case. I'll cover all this in detail below, but that needed to be said.
Also before I start, I wonder if I might make a minor retraction. In the WILD class, perhaps during a moment of regrettable hyperbole, I might have implied that doing RRC's often enough (aka, habitually) would make them happen during a NLD, and then you will be lucid. If I said that or implied it I should not have, because that is not their primary purpose.
Now:
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So we get used to this state of mind where our environment triggers questions and thoughts in our mind we would never consider before if we haven't nourished our self awareness? Is this what nourishing self awareness is about? Having a state of mind that triggers questions when faced with certain situations that would otherwise be un-triggered if we haven't nourished this state of mind ,so in a dream they (these questions, or thoughts that we learn to have) would be hovering around us waiting for something to trigger them and trigger lucidity? It's like having a reflex to consider these questions when faced with situations that may trigger them?
No, no, no, and definitely not.
More specifically:
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So we get used to this state of mind where our environment triggers questions and thoughts in our mind we would never consider before if we haven't nourished our self awareness?
Our environment isn't triggering anything. The RRC is meant to provide an opportunity for you to allow yourself a moment of self-awareness, period. The environment is barely involved.
If the RRC has you asking questions or finding answers that you never would have thought about otherwise, that's great; but that is not its primary purpose. Perhaps I chose the wrong word, but the nourishing you are doing here is more of a reminder that you are you, and that you are always interacting with reality (aka, self-awareness); you are not tricking your self-awareness to the surface through the trickery of clever questions, you are simply taking a moment to recognize its existence (and yours). And this recognition, were you to carry it into your dream, would be most helpful.
Yes, as I said earlier the "habit" of doing RRC's, if it manifests in a dream, might help encourage a DILD. But, as I also said earlier, that is a happy side-effect, and not its core purpose. But even then the fact that the NLD environment has generated a RRC, it isn't actually triggering anything -- you still have to become lucid yourself.
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So we are not actually nurturing self awareness, we are training this state of mind that triggers these question (that if processed make us lucid) that depend on self awareness?
Okay, aside from the fact that you actually are nurturing self-awareness: You are not training a state of mind that triggers anything. I highly recommend that you get the word "trigger" out of your mind, as it might help you to understand that the RRC is not a machine for causing lucidity on its own; indeed, it really only works well in a dream after you are lucid.
I think you have may have misunderstood the nature of the questions you ask during a RRC. I suppose they could be triggers, but they are not triggers to "make us lucid," they are triggers to encourage a mental pause, that mental pause being one of wonder about our interaction with reality. The questions do not depend on self-awareness, they remind us that we are self-aware, or, rather, wondering about their answers reminds us of that.
The questions do not depend on anything, and are not "triggered" into being asked; you must still remember to take a moment, a pause, to ask them and consider their answers. And again, these questions are quite fluid: you can ask them in different ways, or not ask them at all -- it is the answering, the wondering, that matters, and not the questions. Essentially, RRC is a simple suggestion that you take a moment to wonder about the fact that you exist, and your existence has a part in reality. It is not a magic button that produces lucidity, and its questions are just questions.
Here seems a good place to remind you of the context of the RRC: It is being used to prepare you for doing WILD's. WILD's by definition assume that you never lose your waking-life consciousness throughout the WILD process. There is no need to trigger lucidity when doing a WILD, because you are supposed to be lucid the whole time.
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So when you say self awareness comes after lucidity, but also training it triggers lucidity, you mean this state of mind triggers these questions which triggers lucidity, and so self awareness is also directly a part of the dream now(after becoming lucid)?
I never said self-awareness comes after lucidity, not even once. Self-awareness is lucidity, literally, so it must be present or else there will not be lucidity. You also cannot be self-aware before you are lucid, for the same reason (if you are self-aware, then you are lucid).
Now back to this triggering: again, the RRC was aimed at WILD, so the "training" assumes you will be awake, and reasonably self-aware, throughout the WILD dive. That said, I suppose that if you are including RRC's for MILD practice, which I would recommend, you are still using it to create that "self-awareness pause," and it would not be much of a trigger. In other words, yes, if your habit of RRC's manifests in a dream, the mental prep from MILD will likely put it to good use and you might become lucid... but keep in mind you are becoming lucid because you remembered to ask the RRC questions, to wonder, and not because of some special property inherent in those questions.
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So it's this state of mind that triggers lucidity, not the self awareness, but we still need self awareness because it is what let's us be able to ask and answer these questions in the first place?
That state of mind is self-awareness! And (again) yes, we still need self-awareness, not because it is "what lets us be able to ask and answer these questions," but because it is lucidity. Those questions are really, really, really not the important part in all this!
And now:
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So self awareness is a tool.
No, it is not; self-awareness is You. Hopefully you get that by now.
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We aim to nurture using a mind set that depends on self awareness?
Okay, I can give that one a qualified yes, I think!
However, we are not nurturing a mindset that depends on self-awareness, so much as one that remembers and welcomes the presence of self-awareness.
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So when you say nurture self awareness ,you mean nurture the mindset to always consider those questions, and those questions depend on self awareness. Right?
Wrong. You are using the RRC (the questions) to nurture self-awareness, yes, but those questions are just questions, just words, and they do not depend on self-awareness. You could ask and answer them over and over without one wit of self-awareness, especially if you choose to simply ask some questions now and then, and then answer them straight up without really wondering about your interaction with reality.
You must try to shake off the idea that the RRC is a technique that will make you lucid simply by doing it -- it won't. In truth, that technique doesn't exist in any form; lucidity comes from you, your grasp of the fundamentals, and never as the result of some trick. Techniques might help, but they are not the complete answer.
Funny thing, though: self-awareness is not a technique, and if it is present in a dream, you will be lucid. No triggering, no technique, just you, aware of your Self, and aware that the entire dreamscape is a projection of that Self.
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If this is true then we always have access to self awareness even in non lucid dreams, or otherwise these questions would hover in our dream unanswered.
No.
Yes, we always have "access," after a fashion, to self-awareness, just as we always have access, after a fashion, to memory. But "access" and "presence" are two very different things. In a NLD, again by definition, you are not self-aware; your consciousness works just fine, but it does not remember who you are, where you were an hour ago, or that this place is not real. So, if you perform, from habit or expectation, a RRC in a NLD, there is an excellent chance that you will still fail to remember these things, and the questions will receive nice, expected answers from your dreaming mind, satisfying you but continuing the NLD. I can't say enough that the questions are not magic beans, Louai, they are simply aids in helping you take a moment to consider your interaction with reality.
The RRC works best after you become aware you are dreaming. Take that pause and apply it to the fact that this "reality" is all yours, and you will find it much easier to navigate the dream, to remember, to stay lucid, and to attempt your desired goals.
But, especially if you are doing MILD and have prepared yourself to recognize yourself doing a RRC (or RC, for that matter, as they both work the same in this context), RRC's can still help to make you lucid. In other words, if you design the RRC as a trigger for your memory during a NLD, then its performance might be enough to spark memory, stir self-awareness, and bring you to lucidity... but you must be doing MILD in order for this to happen; it will likely not happen on its own! Also, if you do use the symbol of a RRC to bring about lucidity, I suggest you still do a proper one after you are lucid; you might appreciate the results!
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But it's not about self awareness that makes us lucid, it's about these question and thought that make us lucid, and they are related and need self awareness.
No. It is all about self-awareness! But I guess I've said that enough already. And hopefully by now I've made the point that, with that one MILD exception, these questions and thought do not "make us lucid." They may help a bit, in terms of encouraging more self-awareness in general, but the power to become lucid rests in us, and not in a question.
This seems like a nice spot for this aside:
If you do your RRC's often enough, and thoughtfully enough, you might eventually find yourself self-aware quite readily. As you become more and more accustomed to your state of self-awareness, you will likely find yourself "self-aware" in more and more moments of your life -- including dreams. Eventually RRC's will no longer be necessary, because you will have learned to remember that you exist, and that you have an influence on your local reality and it on you, without needing something to remind you. You will also be able to more easily maintain your self-awareness for longer stretches, avoiding the distractions that usually erase it; this will make LD'ing much, much easier.
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This paragraph was after writing a full 1000 word post and spending an hour trying to understand this whole process. So self awareness isn't a thing, it's a state of mind that considers these types of questions?
No. It arguably is a thing, if by thing you mean the very real condition of consciousness that allows us to understand that we exist.
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It's like a critical considerate state of mind that activates with certain situations?
No. That is what self-awareness is not, in fact, though it would be nice if it did activate with certain situations, and did not require our specific attention -- then maybe there would be a technique that will actually work on its own!
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What situations? What situations in a dream might trigger them? I assume a lot of these situations in a dream happen unconsciously, and triggers our lucidity automatically?
Obviously, there are none, naturally. It sure would be nice if there were, though!
tl;dr: Self-awareness is not a technique, and the RRC is not a trigger. Given that the RRC was created to assist in WILD, where waking-life self-awareness is assumed to be present throughout, the RRC is obviously doing something other than triggering self-awareness. I suggest you reread my last post (and maybe some of the other stuff on this thread) with that in mind, or rather without seeking techniques that trigger things, but simply understanding that self-awareness equals lucidity, and to have it on hand negates any need for techniques or triggers.
I hope this time this was clear; I'm not sure how else I can say it...