Lucid Dreaming Fundamentals -- With Q & A

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ctharlhie

*The sickening sound of everyone in the thread dying a little inside*

I think A LOT of people have interpreted RRC as your technique for developing self-awareness for WILD and DILD - I did, anyway.

---

Yes, of course the RRC is a technique for developing self-awareness, and that self-awareness is certainly critical in successful LD'ing, be it WILD or DILD. For that matter, it helps with memory and, to a much smaller extent, expectation/intention as well. In my opinion it is a fine technique, and ought to be part of everybody's daytime practice, whether they are focused on WILD or DILD.

But it was never meant to be a rote routine that, if you repeat enough times in waking life, you might repeat it in a dream an "become" lucid, all without any input of self-awareness, memory, or expectation/intention. There really are no such techniques, and I had not meant to leave that impression.

So: RRC's are a self-awareness technique; RRC's are not a freestanding LD-induction technique. Again, I hope during my zeal to communicate the idea that I was not misleading or too hyperbolic. If I was, I apologize, but am relieved that the void created by that dying a little might now be filled in with the understanding of the real purpose and value of RRC's!

Hi Sageous :)

I was wondering that since self awareness is lucidity itself in lucid dreaming, and self awareness can be heightened, then the enhancement of lucidity via experience (getting better at staying lucid inside a LD for example) is enhancing self awareness itself. So, since the common LDer enhances his self awareness via LD experience only, adding self awareness exercises to the daily routine will enhance LD lucidity quicker.

If this is true, can we use this to reference how exactly to train our self awareness during daily life? In other words, can we see what actually improves in LDs with more experience, and focus on those during daily self awareness training? For example how we become better at understanding that we have full influence in LDs(and so in waking life get used to the idea that we have a level of influence on our local reality)?

It's just that if this is true, we would have a large store of solid examples to guide us in training our self awareness during waking life, this store being our own LDs.

^^ Sure.

That is all true and, I think, will become self-evident with continued LD'ing experience.

Not only will your LD'ing experience enable you to fine-tune your daytime work, not only by enhancing your comprehension of why you are doing the day work at all, but also perhaps to help you tweak your work by pointing out where your efforts are lacking (i.e., your LD's might lack, say, clarity, because your daytime work omits a moment of real reflection about your current position in local reality).

There is no substitute for experience, and no shortcut or technique that can equal its value. The trick, of course, is gaining that experience. Daytime work, especially work that empowers self-awareness, memory, and expectation/intention, is a helpful bridge to the actual LD's that will form the real basis for training.

So yes, once you start racking up the miles in LucidLand, you will find that your knowledge of the territory will certainly help you to redefine the map (aka, daytime work).

I'm very glad to hear that!
In fact, one of the things I'm struggling with is to last more than a few minutes inside a LD. I'm pretty sure that, ironically, fear of losing lucidity or premature awakening are responsible for this.
Mainly I use reflection intention to treat this, as I practice during it to stay calm once lucid and to take a moment to stabilize and go over through the fact that this is a dream before starting my goal persuit. This is an integration I add to the R-I ( the part were I pretend, or visualize, that I am dreaming right now).
Is this right, or would you recommend a different, or extra, daytime practice for this case?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LouaiB

Mainly I use reflection intention to treat this, as I practice during it to stay calm once lucid and to take a moment to stabilize and go over through the fact that this is a dream before starting my goal persuit. This is an integration I add to the R-I ( the part were I pretend, or visualize, that I am dreaming right now).
Is this right, or would you recommend a different, or extra, daytime practice for this case?

---

That not only seems right, but is exactly what you should be doing -- oh, and it is a reflection of daytime practice already, so no need to add more, as you seem to already be doing the right stuff!

Ok so last night I was WILDing, and I did everything right until I got into the dream transition part. I laid there, my body fell asleep and I started seeing my dreams forming. Now heres the problem, every time I get to that transition of entering the dream, I get really excited and wake up. Is there any way I can stop this? Or will only mere focus and persistence fix this one?

^^ Well, you can always stop getting excited! ;)

That's not as snarky an answer as it sounds: the excitement that you feel now is unavoidable, and yes, it will likely inspire your reticular system to wake you up; but it is not a permanent condition. With practice, you will become more accustomed to the moment of transition as it occurs, and you very likely will become less excited and more able to see yourself through the transition.

In the meantime, you might spend some time thinking about transitions during the day; run through how you felt, and why. Try to make the concept, if not the feeling, of the transition something with which you are very familiar. Try to get your mind in a place that welcomes the transition, but is not impressed by it. Additionally, you can remind yourself -- during the day and throughout your WILD dive-- that this transition is something your brain and body do every night, and you only happen to be witnessing it. And, above all, always keep as your number one priority the coming dream itself. Stay focused on the dream, and the transition might become less important.

So yeah, mere focus and persistence -- and patience -- will indeed fix this. With enough sincere attempts, the transition will become famliar enough to you that there will be no call for excitement.

I think I got a grip on the concept of memory, intention and self awareness.
So, becoming lucid is:

1) Using intentions with DSs.

2) Using the time based Prospective memory.

3) We cultivate the idea that we might be dreaming at any given time, and this allows us next time we fall in doubt after seeing a weird thing to recognize that the explanation is that we are dreaming, and even if we didn't realize this, the gained self awareness from this doubt increases our prospective memory activity (because prefrontal cortex activity would have increased) thus allowing a bigger chance for a MILD.

4) Strong emotions, that might also be used as DSs, cause us to become more self aware inside the dream, increasing prefrontal cortex activity, and thus increasing the prospective memory activity allowing for a bigger chance for MILD.

4) Mere incubation due to thinking about LDing during the day can grant one.

5) Doing RCs during the day hoping that one would get incubated inside a dream tonight.

6) WILD

Hope I got it right this time :)

^^ Well, I suppose becoming lucid could, and often does, incorporate those things. Funny thing is, aside maybe from the second #4, and of course WILD, which is more a result of all these things than it is a function of becoming lucid in itself, not one of the things you mentioned are things I talked about on this thread. Are you testing me?

For instance:

1. I'm pretty sure that, aside perhaps from as part as a specific answer, I never mention dream signs here. My reason for that is personal, in that a dream sign has never, even once, made me lucid. Aside from that, I think that counting on something to recur, and then hoping that you wil recognize it, remember that it is a dream sign, and then become lucid is a lot to ask. Cultivating dream signs are a fine vehicle for some, I think, and if your dream signs recur enough that you can attach intention to them that's great; go for it. But in general I tend to shy away from handy triggers like this; I'd rather stick to the fundamentals!.

2. That's just fine as well, but you might have noticed that I rarely talk about techniques here (except I suppose to question them), and, unless perhaps I was answering a question, I'm pretty sure I've never mentioned prospective memory here, much less using time-based prospective memory. I would never mention that, by the way, because it is both difficult to do an tends to cloud your mind with schedules and arcane targets. Prospective memory is a great tool for LD'ing, especially with MILD, but trying to "time-base" it is a tall order because most of our minds make lousy alarm clocks. Better to allow your prospective memory to trigger awareness based on intentions, day residue, or as a result perhaps of mantra-based recall. Again, if you can succeed with time-based prospective memory cues, that's great, but it is not something I would recommend.

3. I think you will find that I have never recommended ever cultivating the " the idea that we might be dreaming at any given time," and likely never will. I have never thought it a good idea to assume, while awake, that this might be a dream. This is mainly because, unless you've got a screw loose, you will always know during the day that you are awake and that this is not a dream, regardless of what you might tell yourself. Keep in mind that, when done properly, a state test (RC) is done with the assumption that you are awake, and you are asking if this is a dream, and not the other way around; the actual physical test (i.e., checking a clock) is also done with the assumption that you are awake, and that the test likely will not fail.

You don't need to think that you are dreaming to do a RC when you see something odd. The point of RC'ing when you see something odd is to confirm that your are not dreaming, not that you are -- the difference is significant. Also, I'm sure that this doubt does very little to help you gain self-awareness. Self-awareness is a cognitive activity -- a decision -- that really cannot be gained from spotting something odd (conversely, of course, if you have developed a strong sense of self-awareness, you might stand a better chance of actually spotting something odd in a dream, and acting upon it).

And, given that I know and care very little about the specifics of prefrontal cortex activity as it relates to prospective memory and MILD, I really cannot comment on whether you got that bit right.

1st 4. Keep in mind that dreams, lucid or not, are often bathed in strong emotion, and emotion is one of those things that is both difficult to control (especially in a dream) and difficult to recognize until after it has had its effect on you (in waking life as well, BTW). Because of this, I think they do very little to inspire self-awareness (though they can be instrumental in helping or hindering lucidity after you are lucid). And again, I care little about prefrontal cortex activity or, here at least, anything as specific as spurring it to increase chances of your MILD technique working for you. If you've mastered the fundamentals, MILD will work for you without explanation or concern for emotion.

2nd 4. Well, yeah. But you'd best have those other fundamentals -- self-awareness and memory -- in place as well, or all that incubation will result in nothing, or, worse, result in a NLD about being lucid.

5. This may be true, and is certainly a popular sentiment (i.e., LaBerge still feeds it to his customers at his Hawaii dream retreats) that I confess I may have repeated myself once or twice, but I've never held much faith in it. For me RC's are tools for daytime work, to help build self-awareness, and really don't come into play until after you sense you might be dreaming. In other words, you might certainly incubate doing an RC during a dream, but you'll be dreaming that you are RC'ing and very likely will find that your test confirms that you are not dreaming.

6. WILD is one of the ways we find ourselves lucid, and nothing more, or less. Aside from needing the fundamentals in place to successfully WILD, it is actually unrelated to them.

I hope these responses made some sense, and did not come off as rude or snarky (that was not intended). If you were presenting something other than what I've been talking about on this thread and elsewhere, that's fine. Also, I'm not trying to argue with you; if you are sure all these things you listed are spot-on correct, that's fine -- I'm just pointing out that much of this has little to do with the fundamentals.

Also, if I misunderstood, please let me know and, after apologizing for my misstatements, I will kick myself for wasting another hour of my life!

:sageous:

Actually your response is very helpful, I'm just trying to connect the dots about why MILD works, sorry it's a little off topic.
If there is something that confuses me about MILD is that we say we want to remember to become lucid NEXT TIME WE ARE DREAMING. Since when do we have a little light in our brain saying that we are dreaming?! Like, this must be a very bad cue. Does our prospective memory know when we are dreaming? because surely we don't while in a dream. I think this might be a thing that just works, and we don't know why yet, but it does and I shouldn't worry about it. Got any answer? Lol I'm really desperate, sorry to throw at you an impossible question.

Anyways I'm doing the self awareness practice. Amazingly, I stayed calm very nicely during my last LD, and had quite astonishing dream control, thnx to my daytime training and preparation, especially the self aware mindset I'm practicing to have inside the LD. I even had sex, twice!! So exciting and I didn't wake up!! I did eventually, but because I ran out of REM time, I'm pretty sure.

^^ You might be giving all this too much thought, Louai...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LouaiB

If there is something that confuses me about MILD is that we say we want to remember to become lucid NEXT TIME WE ARE DREAMING. Since when do we have a little light in our brain saying that we are dreaming?! Like, this must be a very bad cue. Does our prospective memory know when we are dreaming? because surely we don't while in a dream. I think this might be a thing that just works, and we don't know why yet, but it does and I shouldn't worry about it. Got any answer? Lol I'm really desperate, sorry to throw at you an impossible question.

---

Actually, you sort of do have a little light in there saying you are dreaming: you.

In a sense there is no such thing, literally, as prospective memory; you're simply remembering to do something, using the same tools of cognition and memory that you use for "standard" memory. The term is simply something the psychologists came up with to describe one way we access memory (or a behavior, I guess). The cues that trigger prospective memory can be anything, including, yes, events in dreams (like dream signs, or "odd" things). There is no mental subroutine that says, "Hey, Louai is dreaming now, so I'd better tell him so," but rather by doing MILD you're building a scenario that helps you become more likely to notice (remember) that you are dreaming during the dream. To try to build a technical framework around that scenario might possibly be counterproductive, because in the end you're grabbing at air. And no, I do not believe you can set a prospective memory "alarm clock" to go off during the dream; it just doesn't work that way.

The interesting thing about MILD, to me, is that it isn't so much creating some prospective memory cue as it is planting a seed of self-awareness into your dream -- a little memory, or subtle undercurrent, of "you," as it were. This is my opinion, and I could certainly be wrong, but all this technical talk about things like time-based prospective memory are just that: talk. Do your MILD, be confident you will LD, and you will remember to remember.

So yeah, you might find yourself ahead of the game if you just "think this might be a thing that just works, and we don't know why yet, but it does," and don't worry about it.

Quote:

---

Anyways I'm doing the self awareness practice. Amazingly, I stayed calm very nicely during my last LD, and had quite astonishing dream control, thnx to my daytime training and preparation, especially the self aware mindset I'm practicing to have inside the LD. I even had sex, twice!! So exciting and I didn't wake up!! I did eventually, but because I ran out of REM time, I'm pretty sure.

---

That's excellent -- and more reason to not give too much attention to the technical minutiae/bullshit about what makes this stuff work!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sageous

^^ You might be giving all this too much thought, Louai...



Actually, you sort of do have a little light in there saying you are dreaming: you.

In a sense there is no such thing, literally, as prospective memory; you're simply remembering to do something, using the same tools of cognition and memory that you use for "standard" memory. The term is simply something the psychologists came up with to describe one way we access memory (or a behavior, I guess). The cues that trigger prospective memory can be anything, including, yes, events in dreams (like dream signs, or "odd" things). There is no mental subroutine that says, "Hey, Louai is dreaming now, so I'd better tell him so," but rather by doing MILD you're building a scenario that helps you become more likely to notice (remember) that you are dreaming during the dream. To try to build a technical framework around that scenario might possibly be counterproductive, because in the end you're grabbing at air. And no, I do not believe you can set a prospective memory "alarm clock" to go off during the dream; it just doesn't work that way.

The interesting thing about MILD, to me, is that it isn't so much creating some prospective memory cue as it is planting a seed of self-awareness into your dream -- a little memory, or subtle undercurrent, of "you," as it were. This is my opinion, and I could certainly be wrong, but all this technical talk about things like time-based prospective memory are just that: talk. Do your MILD, be confident you will LD, and you will remember to remember.

So yeah, you might find yourself ahead of the game if you just "think this might be a thing that just works, and we don't know why yet, but it does," and don't worry about it.



That's excellent -- and more reason to not give too much attention to the technical minutiae/bullshit about what makes this stuff work!

---

Thank you Sageous :)
This has really eased my mind, this has been worrying me for so long.
I will definitely stop worrying about it too much. I now know that whatever my understanding about how it works, it will still work, I just need to practice!

Indeed, giving to much thought about the technicalities is counterproductive. I should just accept that it's a very vague subject and ease my mind.

Thnx again Sageous, it's always beneficial when seeking your help :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sageous

Why on earth would you want to "catch" a FA? I never got that. FA's are inconveniences for which you can prepare and maybe do something about, but I really don't think they ought to be sought out. I know this might run anathema to all those guides, but it is what I think.

---

Why wouldn't you want to catch a FA? Catch a FA = lucid dream, Miss a FA = non-lucid dream. Presumably the goal in just about every discussion on this forum is how to get lucid, so when faced with a FA, pretty much everyone's goal is to catch it and become lucid.

Catching a FA has nothing to do with "seeking one out." I don't seek out FAs, but I experience them during periods of frequent lucidity and would prefer to catch them and continue on lucid.

On the rest of it, chalk it up again to crossed wires again I suppose. If I thought the essence of my question had been addressed, I wouldn't have kept on saying I thought it hadn't been. :horse:

^^ I wasn't going to respond to this because we seem to be having difficulty communicating recently, but, since I respect your wisdom and ineterest (and you are correct):

Yes, if you find yourself in a FA, it would be most excellent to have tools on hand for converting that FA to a lucid dream. One tool is doing RC's whenever you "know" you are awake, just to be sure.

I think I was referring more to actually targeting or looking forward to FA's, as though they are an integral part of becoming lucid. Clearly you did no mean that.

Perhaps it's just a matter of semantics: "catch" implies, to me, anticipation and expectation, and perhaps a real desire to encounter a FA. Perhaps "capitalize" might be a better word. But, given that it's just semantics and who really cares, yes, you are correct and I agree: If FA's are a regular facet of your dreaming life, then learning to recognize them/test for them would indeed be a good thing to do.

:cheers:

Hey Sageous, I just wanted to ask a rather general question.
How long have you been practicing self awareness?

How long did it take you to start seeing your self awareness consistently in your dreams?

I'm just curious because I've been practicing self awareness for almost 2 months and Im pretty sure it should be coming over into my dreams consistently by now. Is 2 months too short to start seeing results like that? Or do I need to step up my self awareness game to a higher degree of it? Or do I need to stick with what I've got right now, and not change anything, and just wait a little longer? I know that with Hukif and his Gravity RC, it took him a few months to really start seeing results consistently. The reason I mention Hukif and his method is because I feel it is a type of self awareness, just changed a bit to fit him. Would it be correct to just keep practicing and wait it out as he did?

Before I respond, OneUpBoy, let me preface by saying that self-awareness is not a technique. It is a state of mind.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OneUpBoy71

Hey Sageous, I just wanted to ask a rather general question.
How long have you been practicing self awareness?

---

I guess I've been "practicing" self-awareness for as long as I've been LD'ing, which is something close to 40 years now. I've been seriously pursuing, or trying to understand the nature of self-awareness, for about a decade now. And I guess I've been doing physical techniques like RRC's for maybe 5 years. So I guess the practice can be measured in many ways... the key one for me is that it has just begun.

Quote:

---

How long did it take you to start seeing your self awareness consistently in your dreams?

---

You do not see your self-awareness in dreams; you are simply self-aware. Self-awareness is not a thing you see or acquire, it is you. Try not to see it as something you acquire; rather, see it as a function of your mind that you do all the time, but to which you simply pay no attention.

To answer your question, though: to this day I rarely achieve the levels of self-awareness I desire in dreams; consistency is still a goal. That said, a low-level self-awareness seems present in most of my dreams, but that, I think, is a result of experiencing many thousands of LD's over many years, and did not come quickly or as a result of any particular technique.

So I guess the short answer is that it took decades to experience any level of consistent self-awareness in my dreams, and I am likely years away consistently reaching the levels of elf-awareness I desire.

But even if I misunderstood you and we're just talking semantics:

Quote:

---

I'm just curious because I've been practicing self awareness for almost 2 months and Im pretty sure it should be coming over into my dreams consistently by now. Is 2 months too short to start seeing results like that?

---

Two months is not a long time, when you are trying to develop a consistent sense of self-awareness. Some can spend their entire lives trying to be self-aware more than occasionally, much less consistently. Also, after you develop a decent sense of self-awareness in waking-life you have an opportunity to incorporate it into your dreams... it is not an external force that comes into your dreams for you.

Quote:

---

Or do I need to step up my self awareness game to a higher degree of it? Or do I need to stick with what I've got right now, and not change anything, and just wait a little longer?

---

Keep your self-awareness "game" within the limits of your abilities, patience, and interest. Don't try to force more work onto yourself, and don't get disappointed in a lack of results, ever. Just do your best to remember, as often as you can, that you exist, that you have an influence on your local reality, and it has one on you.

So if you're comfortable with your current practice, leave it be. And try to remember that self-awareness work is a long-term practice, and not a zero-sum deal.

Quote:

---

I know that with Hukif and his Gravity RC, it took him a few months to really start seeing results consistently. The reason I mention Hukif and his method is because I feel it is a type of self awareness, just changed a bit to fit him. Would it be correct to just keep practicing and wait it out as he did?

---

Yup!

Wow, I really appreciate it Sageous, that you took the time to answer all of my questions. Thanks for correcting me that Self Awareness is a mindset and not a technique- my mistake. Not only has your reply helped me come to a greater understanding of Self Awareness, but it has also helped me to see what it really is. I remember reading an article about Paul Tholey not too long ago and how he incorporated his version of self awareness into his life. For him he saw results within a month- but it didn't specify those results.
After the first month of practicing my awareness and getting my state of mind right for it, I almost became lucid at least twice every night. I guess you could say I still do, now all I need to do is pay more attention because every time I almost become lucid, the only thing that stops me is the fact that I tell myself, "Is this a dream? Nah its way too vivid to be a dream." Now I have worked my way around it and I am becoming almost lucid at least once every night still.
However, the state I am looking to achieve right now is that of becoming Lucid in all of my dreams, every night. I know that I have a while now, but at least I have a target, and a set amount of time to know when it should come to me. Once again, thanks Sageous. It seems in every one of your posts, I always learn something new.

^^ Happy that I could help, OneUpBoy, though it sounds like you're well on your way anyway!

Good luck in the rest of your journey!

Hi Sageous,

There’s something I’ve been wondering about:

You said before that “self-aware” and “unconscious” are contradictory terms, and LD'ing requires you to keep up your self-awareness to some extent (be it through RC’s, RRC’s etc.), but:

I’m going to refer to the “all-day RC”, like gravity, transitions, breathing etc. With this type of approach, you take a constant attention to something in reality which you know is different in a dream (critical awareness) and after a long time of doing this, the constant critical question just sinks into the back of your mind and requires no further conscious input, and your mind internalizes it to such an extent that it just ‘knows’ always when things are such that it is either a dream or reality. But the thing is, when you get to this stage, you don’t need to “pay attention” to it anymore during the day. So it does indeed become an unconscious process, yet yields constant lucidity in dreams. I’m just wondering what your opinion is on this. Thanks.

^^ I guess the easiest response to this question is this: The unconscious and self-awareness are indeed contradictory terms, and without self-awareness there will be no lucid dreaming, regardless of whatever math, techniques, habits, or rationale you might be using. Lucidity is literally self-awareness, and all the techniques in the world cannot unravel this bit of reality. But easy is never easy, so:

There are no "all day" RC's, as they only last as long as you are aware they are lasting (the attention bit), which is pretty much never all day -- RC'ing all day would either become monumentally confusing or simply so much meaningless rote exercise. My opinion of ADA has been well documented here, so I don't think I need to go there today. But in terms of all those rote processes you listed, keep in mind that, when they become rote processes, or vehicles of habit, then they become fairly useless tools for lucidity. It isn't that your mind internalized these repetitious functions, but that those repetitious functions lost their power to affect your self-awareness. In other words, if you do ADA exercises to the point where your unconscious understands what they are and expects them to occur, you run the the risk of your unconscious, your dreaming mind, to include the fruit of those exercises in your NLD's, just like you apparently wanted. In other words, you will dream about the fruition of all those things you were practicing and very likely dream that you are lucid, without a breath of self-awareness.

So if you train your mind to complete self-awareness exercises without you, it will complete self-awareness exercises without you, and it (your mind) will certainly come to determine, to know, what is a dream and what is reality. The trouble is, it will be your unconscious defining what is reality, with no referee to judge the difference. From that stance you will have plenty of false lucids in which you dream you are aware, because you've trained your mind to create these schemata. Of course, if there is still a "You" paying attention to all these functional unconscious antics, you will notice that your dreaming mind is presenting you with versions of lucidity, and -- because you were paying attention -- you can take that presentation and raise it to the next level, which would be a lucid dream rich with your own conscious input, and not just the thing that you spent the last few months training your unconscious to present.

So: yes, critical awareness is, well, critical, but it must always be critical; you cannot let your unconscious go on autopilot, based on training you've provided. In order for your self-awareness to be present, you must pay attention to your mind's activities -- even when it is doing just what you expected it it do. Attention must always be present, period. If it is not, then neither are You, and your unconscious will present you with the dream you want to have, with no regard for your conscious, here & now desires or plans.

I hope that made sense, because this was an excellent question. If it didn't, then ask again, and I'll have another go.

^^Excellent points!

But when I mentioned the “all-day RC”, I was mostly referring to the ones which people like Hukif and Mylynes made popular. The best example is probably Hukif’s gravity RC. I actually spoke to Hukif not too long ago about this type of RC in a thread I started; he explains it very well. Here’s the link anyway:

http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...lly-aware.html

RC’s like this one are done in a different way to traditional RC’s. They work on the basis that you become familiar to one thing which you know is different in dreams than in reality -- it is kept in the back of your mind at all times. Just like learning something new, after a long time of practicing, it doesn’t require much conscious input because it’s mostly internalized and works in an ‘autonomous’ fashion -- it just becomes easy. Except what your mind finds “easy” in the case of this RC is the ability to differentiate between dreams and reality, because with months, perhaps years of practice, your mind eventually learns that normal gravity = reality, and abnormal gravity = dream, or something similar.

This is more along the lines of what I meant. I was confused as to how self-awareness fits into this particular approach, as once something like this becomes second nature, it doesn’t require much self-awareness anymore by the practitioner, because the difference between waking and dreaming has already been 'learned' and exists instinctively. Hope this makes sense.

^^ I think Hukif and I have very different opinions of the nature of a state test (RC), or perhaps we are on the same page, only reading from different directions. I also think that Hukif either humbly diminishes or perhaps does not understand the very high presence of self-awareness he exercises when doing this practice.

Yes, you could do that sort of practice, and, say, recognizing that "abnormal gravity = dream" could become an autonomous interpretation of your moment in reality. But you would still need to be able to interpret your autonomic observations, and that interpretation -- hell, just the acknowledgement of the automatic signal -- requires your attention, your self-awareness. In other words, that automatic observation is meaningless unless you pay attention to it. I think Hukif left that bit out, or, more likely, assumed that bit to be understood.

For example, let's say you're in a dream and that signal fires, but "You" are not there to acknowledge it: you might then have a dream about recognizing the difference in gravity, then dream that you are lucid, and all without a bit of self-awareness. Or that signal might be firing away in a dream, but if you are not "there" to hear it, your DC "You" will simply dismiss the signal, because it is sure (because the current dream schema says so) that you are supposed to be floating two feet above the ground, that that matches the nature of gravity exactly.

You must be able to sort out these signals in a self-aware manner wherever they occur, and this can only be done by being self-aware, by paying attention, at the moment of the signal. I think Hukif underestimates his own powerful skills when he assumes that you will always be ready to spot that signal, that your sense of self will always be en guard.

Which brings me back around to what I originally said, above: The actual RC is the moment you pay attention to that automatic signal you've been grooming for (probably) years. The moment is a short one, and only happens when your trained mind tells you something is different, or wrong. Again, I still think it would be impossible, if not a bit dangerous, to maintain the moment of attending to that signal all day. But that doesn't mean your mind can't be monitoring, say, gravity, all day. This is the same as teaching yourself to watch for the "odd," and then do a RC when you spot something. Yes, you are always ready to spot the odd (or a change in gravity), but it is the moment of acknowledging that oddness, and confirming your state, that is the actual RC, because that is the moment you attach self-awareness to it.

I feel like I'm repeating myself, so let me do a tl;dr to summarize: Yes you can train your mind to work quietly all day in a vigil to spot imagery or sensations that imply a dream state, and yes, you can train yourself to unconsciously signal when these things are spotted. But you must be able to recognize and attend to those signals when they occur, and this can only be done with self-awareness (and memory as well, but that is another story). So, though Hukif does underplay its necessity (probably because of the very high level of self-awareness he must enjoy), even this "automatic" all day RC will only work when self-awareness can be accessed, and attention can be paid to it.

Interesting question, Eamo; I hope my answer made sense, and doesn't sound like an argument... I think Hukif's "gravity plan" is brilliant and well worth mastering, and do not mean to belittle it, or him.

That's an excellent answer, Sageous; thanks for clarifying things. :)

Hi, I've read through a fair bit of this epic thread and your advice and experience seems to really stand-up so I decided to create randomised alarms that go off at a random interval between 20 to 60 minutes (using a bit of Ruby script).

Every time an alarm goes off, I try to test my awareness by first focusing on the details of my sensations, ala ADA and then doing a short RC that is usually context sensitive to the sensation I was focusing on (hopefully this detail will avoid the pitfall you talked about with overly habitual checks). Then I ask myself what I was just doing and where I am going to be followed by some quick contemplation of the current chain of events I am a part of. Finally, if this is the first alarm, I try to quickly recap the events that happened since I woke up that morning and if it is a later alarm, just until the last alarm went off.

As a quick example, say an alarm goes off sometime in dusk and there is red-orange sunlight streaming from my window, casting distinct silhouettes of window sill accessories. After a moment of drinking in this sight with all the fidelity my visual cortex can muster, I would hover my hand into the stream and closely examine the shadow cast for any suspicious distortions. That would serve as the reality check. Then I would think about the lesson in CSS code I am currently doing and what I hope to accomplish from this. How would this influence me and how would I possibly influence the online world (if I can indulge at least some delusions of grandeur there).

My reasoning is that this should serve as both a continual memory and self-awareness exercise. However, I am aware that the "self" part of the awareness might still be sketchy at the moment in my details so I hope to expand on that part of the exercise after a few days of seeing if I can sustain this level of introspection first.

Am I thinking in the right direction or have I read you all wrong?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DeviantThinker

Am I thinking in the right direction or have I read you all wrong?

---

Yes, you are definitely thinking in the right direction, DeviantThinker (kind of makes your name a bit ironic, huh?).

I particularly like your "alarm system" for RC's, and your choice to make them context sensitive, and not the same action every time. Including memory in the moment is an excellent plan as well.

There were only a couple of small things I found to comment on:

Quote:

---

As a quick example, say an alarm goes off sometime in dusk and there is red-orange sunlight streaming from my window, casting distinct silhouettes of window sill accessories. After a moment of drinking in this sight with all the fidelity my visual cortex can muster, I would hover my hand into the stream and closely examine the shadow cast for any suspicious distortions. That would serve as the reality check.

---

First, if all your RC's carry this sort of imagery and appreciation for the moment, you are well along on your way indeed; that was a truly beautiful moment you created for yourself, I think!

But...

Quote:

---

Then I would think about the lesson in CSS code I am currently doing and what I hope to accomplish from this. How would this influence me and how would I possibly influence the online world (if I can indulge at least some delusions of grandeur there).

---

I think you might consider avoiding these sorts of thoughts, as they might be a bit too globally intellectual to help hold you in the place you need to be for properly appreciating your RC (and, later, your dream). Instead of clearing your mind, and really soaking up the moment to fully determine both that it does not represent a dream, but also your direct presence in that moment, adding that CSS bit might run the risk of opening a floodgate of abstract thoughts regarding a subject that occupies much of your mind. Your already successful goal of a simple sense of interaction with your local reality might be obscured in a cloud of short and long-term waking-life plans, aspirations, and intellectual ruminations that is lined with an aura of possibly welcome distraction. Maybe just stick to actions like that RC at the windowsill, and thinking about your place in your immediate reality -- what you just affected/effected, where you are right now.

Quote:

---

My reasoning is that this should serve as both a continual memory and self-awareness exercise. However, I am aware that the "self" part of the awareness might still be sketchy at the moment in my details so I hope to expand on that part of the exercise after a few days of seeing if I can sustain this level of introspection first.

---

You seem well on your way already, but, as I just said, giving the presence and participation of your Self a higher priority than, say, the things on which you are working, should take you closer to a more successful "continual memory and self-awareness exercise" that includes the most vital element of lucidity, self-awareness.