Do you think repeating a mantra along with counting will help if i keep falling asleep?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sageous
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Do you think repeating a mantra along with counting will help if i keep falling asleep?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sageous
One or the other ought to be enough. Keep in mind that counting -- when done in a meditative manner -- is a form of mantra. Doing both might be confusing or, worse, tend to keep you awake.
Alright so I think I succeeded in My First OBE. So last night I wake up around 545 in the morning right before my alarm would of went off at 6. I lay on my back and repeat my mantra. I forgot to turn off my alarm so while repeating my mantra it went off and messed me up. After that i switched to my side and repeated my mantra and i fell asleep. I literally had like 3-4 DILDs out of nowhere. I kept ending up at my work place and i realized i was in a dream everytime. Between those dreams is when i reached the vibration stage. It literally felt like i had a soul in my body trying to wiggle its legs out of my body. So eventually i decided to just try and roll out of my body. I rolled out and after i rolled out im not sure what happened. I remember it was very blurry in my room and i saw my clock say 12:01. I think i was like 3 feet floating over my bed. And after that i just blacked out back to sleep i think? The second time i reached the vibrations i got scared (i dont know why though) and i opened my eyes and they stopped.
But yeah, i think i managed my first wild/obe but since i barely remember it, im gonna consider it a fail. But atleast im getting better with DILDs as i had alot more dream control
Dear friend Sageous. Is it okay to WILD before you first fall asleep if IT comes without you caring whether or not it does? Because, if so, I have missed out on very many WILD possibilities. If not, I will wait a year or two when I am maybe 14 and am not afraid of the unknown hidden in the dark(aka I cannot convince myself that the sounds are not creepy). So, is it ok? Many thanks, YOST
It's okay to WILD upon first falling asleep. It's just very difficult, because of the long abyss of delta (aka NREM) sleep through which you must pass in order to get to your dream. I'm not sure what this "IT" is that you speak of, but if it's LD-related, you can rest assured that "IT" won't be coming right when you fall asleep -- unless you are suffering from narcolepsy, or something similar.
Aside from the fact that there is no "unknown hidden in the dark" of which you need to afraid, WILD'ing first thing is very difficult -- better to do after five or more hours of sleep.
Bottom line: you're probably not missing anything, so no need to wait if you don't feel like it ... but if you wan to do WILD, it really does work best after several hours of sleep.
ps: The sounds are just sounds; no need to be creeped out!
I'll add my two cents if that's cool. I understand the fear factor completely. I think that if you keep at it, the fear will go away. Remember it is all in your mind. There is nothing that has gotten you yet and there will be nothing that will get you now or in the future. There is nothing to fear. Good luck!Quote:
Originally Posted by yost
im pretty sure i was able to get to the vibrations stage attempting a WILD last night. It only lasted a second though. Still thats the farthest i ever made it during a normal wild attempt and not a DEILD
^^ Cool. Small steps are better than no steps at all!
But I feel compelled to add a reminder that might help:
There is no "Vibrations Stage." Or SP stage, or HI stage for that matter. A WILD dive is a smooth transition from waking life to dreaming life. Period. There are no stages; no stops along the way. I know I've said this many times, but it bears repeating: If you look for stops along the way (those stages) you will find them, and your WILD attempt will also likely will be stopped cold because the importance you place on those stages is just enough to distract you from your main -- and ultimately only -- task of maintaining waking-life self-awareness throughout the transition.
So I guess it was good you got a little further, but vibrations are not a stage, not a target, and in my opinion not consequential at all -- try to ignore them, and focus on the goal rather than the obstacles cluttering your path to it.
p.s. I know this reminder runs counter to pretty much everything posted here and elsewhere, but try to consider it anyway.
Well, the other night I pretty much had a successful WILD, but somehow my Reality Check didn't work. Not sure why. I think I was too relaxed in my attempt to have expected it to work!
It was interesting. The first WILD I had (a year or two ago) began by some HI, and then floating in a black void and then being RIPPED UP at 100 miles an hour into my dream.
This time, I did the same thing as I always do when I try to WILD, except everything went almost by itself. I laid down an immediately starting seeing my thoughts as visualizations. (I'm usually not that great at visualizing) I remember visualizing some hills and mountains, and then I was following some monks up a staircase.
I sorta lost track of everything, but I sat up out of bed and did a Nose-Plug reality check, but for some reason my logic was inverted, and even though I was able to breath through my pinched nose, I assumed i wasn't dreaming somehow and I don't remember anything after that. -_-;
Getting there, though! My first intentional success. I'm starting to think that my problem is purely a matter of timing. Because I did nothing different than usual (I've been more relaxed carefree in all my attempts so far, so I don't think its that I've been trying to hard to WILD).
This morning i attempted a WILD at 10 AM. I woke up and was physically tired but pretty alert. So im falling asleep and im able to keep my mind awake. Auditory Hallucinations kicked in out of nowhere and i started to hear a conversation of my manager and my coworker. The very intense vibrations came immediately after and i ended within a second. I didnt enter a dream so i relaxed more and the vibrations came back for about 5 seconds then stopped again. Nothing happened, i got the vibrations again and they died off and i realized i was too late in my sleep cycle to fall asleep again. I think im getting better at WILDs but my only problem seems to be at this point transitioning into dream. I know i shouldnt be paying attention to the vibrations but its kind of hard not to. I mean it literally feels and sounds like a tornado is in my room. Sometimes i hear people laughing or talking also which distracts me.
I FINALLY DID IT! I haven't tried this since the baby was born but I was a woken up buy my son after about 6 hours of sleep. So when we got all settled down again I just decided to go ahead and try to WILD. It took a while to get really comfortable. I ended up on my right side. I didn't have a lot of expectation or excitement. I approached it like I really didn't care if it happened or not. (I think that made the difference) I kept the awareness feeling but to a very dim level and repeated my mantra. I have 3 or 4 mantras now. I like to change them up so they don't lose meaning. I rotated through them all this time. Then at some point I suddenly hit SP. It was just like every DEILD experience except there was no loss of consciousness or dream before. I had some heavy HI that I ignored but that was it. I know SP is not supposed to be a stage but that's how I know I'm there. I don't try to induce SP it just takes me and I relax into it and then I make my dream body get out of bed. I did have a lot of confusion at first and I ended up DEILDing to keep it going but yeah I definitely did it and the LD was epic!
Great job, Xanous! You know my opinion of SP by now, of course, but if it works for you in that manner, it makes sense (for you) to elevate its importance.
Now for the second success, and whether you'll need your son's help again... ;)
ahh i like this. I feel repeating the same mantra over and over again is very difficult and i tend to fall asleep. I might try to add another one in tonight and rotate between the two so it keeps me aware enoughQuote:
Originally Posted by Xanous
Hello, Sageous!
Its been a while since i posted here, but i need the experts advice; im a bit lost on the direction im going.
Last night, i woke several times naturally, and chose the awakening 6 hours after bedtime. I never realized the difference it would make, between natural and alarm. Anyways, after, hmm...15-20 minutes of mantra repeating, some extremely light HI came on. At this point i was very clear and was more or less feeling awake (is this the right sense of awareness?). Now, i know im only supposed to acknowledge it, ive read your class many times. Hell, i even printed it! But i couldn't help myself. I started really letting them distract me. But at one point, (and this is not the first time this happened, but the first that night), a really vivid schema, as you might call it, appeared, it turned into a door with light coming out of it. Now to make myself clear, it was only the door, and very small in my view, completely surrounded by the black of my lids. But like never before, it was actually as if i was seeing this door, not just visualizing it. Im sure you know the difference. Now please dont criticise me for mentioning anothor physical sensation, but i feel its important. My head felt like the pins and needles you get when your foot falls asleep. And this was just as the HI/schema got very vivid and like i was seeing this. I believe that was close to dream entry, but it startled me, and, i think, caused the WILD to fail. Hence not paying attention to the 'noise'. Shit.
Well, whadda ya think? Close or not?
P.S. Thanks so much for the class. I know that you must get this alot, but the fact that anyone took that much time without personal benefit, to help others is just, well...very god damn nice. Give him a round of applause everyone!
EDIT: also the vivid door thing and head sensation lasted two seconds max if even
^^ HI ThAtaInTmE:
First, thanks for the kind words, and thanks especially for paying attention ... that means a lot to me, and makes all my effort all the more worthwhile!
Now:
It looks to me like you were doing very well, and got very close; well done!
You might even have had a new door opening up for you (sorry; I had to say that!), that I feel I must say something about, even if it might have nothing to do with your experience:
Here is something to consider: If you are in the midst of your dive and you see an image that you think resembles a schema forming, then it is a schema forming. In other words, even if that door was sourced in HI -- which could likely be the case -- its unique clarity, not to mention its metaphoric significance (books are written about doors with light behind them) more than likely begged investigation. Your dreaming mind may have been offering up a simple schema from -- or through -- which you might have been able to build whatever dream you desired. Doors are good for that. That the door was distant (very small) and only appeared for a flash might just be because it showed up too early for your sleep pattern; a little attention might have preserved it while your body continued to drop off to sleep.
I guess what I'm trying to say here is that sometimes there is a point in throwing away all the rules and abandoning rationalization. If something appears to you -- at any time -- during your dive that you know is not the usual noise, it might be worth a few seconds of dedicated concentration. If that door was truly just some empty HI, you likely would have lost interest in it quickly and moved on. But if it was a dream schema forming -- or something else altogether -- you very likely would have found real value in checking it out ... I once was in a very similar situation where a tiny pinhole of light appeared in the "distance," far too early and still against eyelids that I was still all too aware I had just closed. But I chose to focus on that light, and abandoned my WILD dive to examine it. As I got "closer," the hole grew until it appeared as a small tear in the black fabric of my darkened vision. I widened the hole, passed through, and was rewarded with one of the most amazing lucid experiences I've ever had. Now I'm not saying that that's what would have happened had you approached and opened your door, but some things are just worth the look.
That said, if you know it's noise, and know it isn't really going to help or be a thing of interest, be sure to ignore as best you can. And I'll refrain from giving you crap about letting the noise shock you out of your dive. This time!
Alright, I woke up 2-3 hours ago I believe, and I looked at my alarm, and saw that it's 7:xx AM, and I wondered, hmmm, do a reality check. I do a nose plug reality check, and I even count my fingers.
I couldn't breathe for the nose plug reality check, and I didn't have trouble counting my fingers, in fact, the moment I closed one ring finger on my right, I was annoyed with counting for some reason. I thought, "Oh...7:xx AM...interesting..." in my mind. I forgot that I had set an alarm for 7:15 AM to wake me up to prepare for a lecture class.
But for some reason, I went back to sleep....then I wake again in waking life, and realized it's 6:24 AM.
WHAT...that was a tricking false awakening, and I know this happened moments after I probably woke up in waking life for a while and shut my eyes again.
Wow, a false awakening where my nose plug reality ends up in me not being able to breathe, and then the half-hearted finger RC. But one thing I do know I'm positive on, I can count up to 30 or so before I really lose track of count when I sleep back from a short WBTB. It's really confusing if that was a false awakening, it scares me, especially since I checked back and forth as well on the alarm clock, and I could've sworn I saw:
7:xx AM,
then 5:xx AM, and I was wondering what the heck was going on (darn dream logic)....oh well, at least I did 3 basic forms of RCs, now I just have to realize if something is wrong, I'm probably dreaming.
I've noticed I have yet to do a decent WBTB for the past few months. I always set a loud alarm to wake me up on my laptop, but I never recall staying up for at least 20 minutes after that. I even put it on loop. I guess because it's so annoying, that I just forget that I get up and turn it off in rage and sleep.
The other alarm I have, I use as a back up to wake me up for sure, but I only use that just for that, and it can only do one time setting to do the gradual increase in loud noises.
Oh well, I'll find some other way to wake me up for the WBTB, I probably need to use the sound bullet device I have to REALLY pump up the volume...now I just have to find a USB cable..or maybe I should use the other Mini bass device instead.
I think my main problem now for WILD attempts is simply waking up to attempt them, and just keeping aware. The dream recall is just fine, most of the times, in fact, I think I'm still on a 50+ day dream recall streak, since I took a nap in the afternoon one day when I didn't remember any dreams that morning....hmm.
Yeah, I really need to get serious with waking up for WBTBs now, lectures and labs really do drain a lot of energy for, which should be a good thing, since I sleep faster. But it's like a double-edge sword in a way, I have to UP my awareness for the WBTB because I'll be sleeping faster than usual.
Once I get that covered though, I just might get those sensations again whenever I do succeed in a WILD. Heart racing a bit, and all that fun stuff.
Yeah, those false awakenings can be annoying, can't they? Especially when your dreaming mind offers up all the RC details you require! ;)
Here is one suggestion regarding timing, though: You might consider waiting until you have a clear schedule to try your WILD's. Try it on days when you don't have to wake up for something else, for one. Also, though you make a good point of the trade-off when the energy of school isn't moving you, keep in mind that on "free" days you can sleep longer, so, though you might have trouble waking up during the night, you might do so naturally later on, and then do WBTB then.
Oh, and of course I insert here the obligatory "Try not to pay too much attention to the noise" note: The "fun stuff" might be fun, but it's all just distraction; be wary of making it too important.
Thanks for sharing!
Your welcome:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sageous
Well i must say im very glad to hear that!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sageous
That. made me laugh. SO. hardQuote:
Originally Posted by Sageous
I will keep that in mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sageous
Well, I shall let you know of any future questions/success stories. I woke up a bunch last night but didnt really feel in the mood for it.:P
My original plan was to stick with MILD while practicing daytime RRCs until next Saturday. I woke up from a nightmare at around 5 am this morning. I did WBTB, jotted down a few keywords, used the bathroom, and hunkered down again. I started out with another MILD - I went over the last dream, imagining what it would feel like to have recognized DS and RC. I repeated to myself a few times that the next thing I'll see will be a dream. After a couple of minutes, I decided on a whim to try WILD instead, and started counting. I'm pretty sure I counted to 20 but don't remember any numbers beyond that. The next thing I remember is being lucid in a fully-formed dream.
In the dream, I knew I was in a particular town in Central Bohemia, though the dreamscape was much more beautiful than the actual town is in the physical world. I decided to go flying. The beginnings were a bit clumsy but then I remembered I needed to expect to be able to fly well. That helped, though every now and then I became paranoid that my mind was going to think negative thoughts and I'd fall. At some point, I flew over two people who were wondering out loud how come I was flying, and I told them it was a lucid dream. Then I "remembered" I was supposed to drive back to Prague to pick up some friends, and I started flying back to where I thought I had parked my car, but I got lost. I decided to ascend to a higher altitude to get a bird's eye view of the town. As soon as I flew high enough, I was enveloped by complete darkness. I descended, and encountered a dream character. I asked her where my car was, and she said I had left it in a different town. Then I woke up. It was 9 a.m., which is 4 hours after my WBTB. I have no memories of dream entry but I do remember a few details that don't fit in the lucid dream but definitely took place before my WBTB, so I guess I was either in and out of lucidity, or ended up having a DILD rather than a WILD. It doesn't really matter to me. The main thing is that I was lucid again after a 4 month (!) dry spell. And the LD was much longer than my previous ones. Thanks for the great tutorial, Sageous!
^^ Thanks for sharing, Michal; interesting stuff!
You're right on both counts at the end there -- it likely was not a WILD ("The next thing I remember is being lucid in a fully-formed dream" was a dead giveaway -- this simply can't happen in a WILD), but in the end who cares? Lucid is lucid, after all!
Nice work, and I hope the dry spell is now in your past.
Well, I guess I'll post here. I'm new to the "class thing".
I tried WILD last night, instead of 5 hours after I go to sleep I tried 6. I woke up, and then tried to WILD with a visualization method, (I have been said to have an amazing imagination, and I do :p). I felt a LOT more activity than the 5 hours WBTB. My body was tingling, felt heavier, and the blackness of my eyelids went darker and darker as I imagined my dream scene. However, no patterns of light or HI. Just darkness, more darkness, and more darkness. That's all that happened, and I gave up shortly after.
Help?
Welcome, Skullgunner!
About the only help I can offer at this point (based on what I read) is that you need to do two things:
-- Try to ignore all those sensations -- the "noise." They really don't matter, especially if you're already good at visualizing.
-- Don't give up. That darkness was probably just a brief stage of NREM, and you merely needed to "wait it out" while your next stage of REM was spooling up. You could perhaps put your visualization skills to work here by working on forming a dream -- aka filling that darkness with schema that might seed the dream, when REM finally arrives.
Thanks for sharing, and good luck!
I thought that the blackness was just the starting stage of a dream, now that I think of it I should have never gave up. I will try again tonight and tell you the results. I think I'm close to getting a WILD done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sageous
Thanks.
alright sageous. Ive noticed ive been coming extremely close near the end of my sleep. Like if i fall asleep around 12am and i wake up at like 10am. Ill usually become very close to succeeding right around 945 am. I think this is because my mind is finally starting to fully awaken but my body is still extremely relaxed. Like today around 10, i woke up and kept still and started to visualize people i knew. All of a sudden my visualizations became clearer and clearer. Eventually i started to hear my mother talking in the background and it felt like i was in a car listening to her, and i felt the vibrations and heard the other noises in which i tried to ignore. The problem was though i already slept and my body didnt want to sleep anymore. So basically i couldnt enter the dream. Im thinking i should increase my WBTB time to let my mind awaken a bit more so i can keep myself following my mantra and such. Because usually i just wake up, go to the bathroom and try to fall back asleep immediately because i fear if i do i start to waken up a bit, i wont be able to fall back asleep.
I failed this morning. I did a WBTB after 6hrs. I was up maybe 30 min. I ended up falling asleep about 2 times and tried to go into DEILD but it just wouldn't come. I think once I turned my head and scratched my nose. The third time I started with a strong mantra but ditched it because it was keeping me too awake. I started doing the opposite instead. I cleared my mind and just did a classic meditation while ignoring all noise. I did use the sound of the fan as a type of anchor and thought of it as my 'ooommmm' sound. My awareness became a dim thing then suddenly I noticed slight vibrations. I go excited at that point and thought "AHHHH YES HERE IT IS. THE SP WILL START THEN IM IN YAY! But my excitement caused my heart to race and mind to race and then it was gone. I was wide awake. I got way to excited. I tried again but it just go too late in the morning to be in bed.
I still don't understand why most of the time my DEILDs don't work. There will be times where I will wake naturally from a dream and lie perfectly still and wait but nothing happens. Maybe I get too expectant and forget to relax completely? I am getting really good at remembering to lie still but I am not sure what would cause a DEILD to fail. When I do DEILD it happens so fast that I don't even really know what I did other than play dead. If I can nail that down I will be lucid almost every night. Any thoughts Sageous?