Thread: What happened? Post Your WILD Attempts, Good or Bad, Here

Your correct sageous, self awareness does probably take a lifetime to understand. I was thinking today that it would be cool if a sub conscious focus, or a lucid dream, was simply a state of mind. I know that it is a state of focus but, it would be interesting if we could just simply shift awareness naturally instead of just falling asleep every night. Just think of how many years we could get back lol.

Just a small question, but I am sure that this has been answered in other threads. So I would like to ask when you start to hear like real sounds you need to focus on those sounds or you need to do something else?

Originally Posted by Moznic

Just a small question, but I am sure that this has been answered in other threads. So I would like to ask when you start to hear like real sounds you need to focus on those sounds or you need to do something else?

You need to do something else. Lending focus to any sounds or similar distractions removes focus from your WILD dive, and then makes the LD less likely to happen. Keep the focus on your self-awareness, your mantra, and forming the dream when the time comes, and be careful to ignore the rest.

... I know this runs afoul of much of the advice on these forums, but I still think it's the most effective thing to do.

I like Moznics question and I get your answer but what if the sound is the dream forming and not just noise? ...I had strong auditory experiences last night when I attempted WILD and I wasnt. sure how to handle that myself.

Originally Posted by Xanous

I like Moznics question and I get your answer but what if the sound is the dream forming and not just noise? ...I had strong auditory experiences last night when I attempted WILD and I wasnt. sure how to handle that myself.

Here's a way to approach noises like that, I think:

If you are sure that the sounds you hear (or sights you see, of course) are signs of an oncoming dream, then make them part of the oncoming dream. Expectation-wise, if you know that those sounds are part of your dream, then they are. Even if they're not, in reality.

Conversely, if you are even a bit suspicious that what you are hearing is just transitional "noise," then you should do your best to ignore it so it doesn't distract you.

The distinction between the two choices -- to use or ignore -- is clear, if it is based on what you know the noises are (and not assume). This doesn't mean, of course, that you should get into an argument with yourself during the dive about the source of the noises, as that would only be more noise.

Tried WBTB WILD this morning. I was soooooo close. During the dive I had this strange feeling of reality folding in on itself. And then I strongly felt my entire body sinking in to the relciner. I know it was just noise and I kept telling myself that. I knew I was right on the verge of it. But because I wanted it so bad my heart rate shot way up. I felt palpitations in my chest, my breathing quickened and it all faded. After this happening twice I gave up and realized I spent an hour. I went back to my bed and my snorring wife. I just cleared my mind like meditation and fell asleep while ignoring the noise (snorring). Now that I think of it maybe her snorring can train me to ignore the noise better during the dive. I had an amazing dream of my dead grandmother witch sparked DILD. I woke up and was able to quickly DEILD. I did get excited at all this time and transitioned thorough the noise and the exact same strange folding in floating feeling happened. I was able to quickly ignore it. I just told myself it was noise. The a very brief and hardly noticable SP. And BAM I am getting out of bed and running down the street naked using my blanket as a cape. (I forgot to set my intention and ran wild)

I also want to mention about mantras. Maybe I am doing it wrong or maybe this morning I was just more alert. But the mantra was actually a hindrance and it was keeping me too awake. I ended up just wordlessly clearing my mind with meditation but keeping a very slight state of self-awareness and I got much closer. The same with DEILD. No mantra. What do you think Sageous?

And RareCola, this is for you. I don't know where you posted but you mentioned you had trouble with opening your eyes in dream? I had the same thing when I DEILD out of my bed. I noticed I was out of bed and dreaming but I still had my eyes closed eventhough I was visuallizing. It was all physical sensation. And when I tried to open them I felt my real eyes come open and I saw the ceiling unfocused and quickly closed them. So what I did was I said Screw it. I will just do this blind untill I decide to see. I felt my way out of my room along the walls and a few seconds later I was looking at my dinning room. Then I continued like it was no big deal. That maybe something to try. Just go blind for a bit and don't think about it. I don't know if it is a good method but it worked for me this morning. I think getting caught up on the little things like that will only make it worse. Just a thought. Maybe Sageous has better ideas on this.

Originally Posted by Xanous

I also want to mention about mantras. Maybe I am doing it wrong or maybe this morning I was just more alert. But the mantra was actually a hindrance and it was keeping me too awake. I ended up just wordlessly clearing my mind with meditation but keeping a very slight state of self-awareness and I got much closer. The same with DEILD. No mantra. What do you think Sageous?

Sure, if a mantra is a distraction to you and you have a "silent" method for maintaining self-awareness, then by all means, dump the mantra. I included a mantra in this course not because it is the only way to hold focus, but because it is about the easiest way to do so. If you've got skills that exceed the value of a mantra, than skip it.

Oh, and for what it's worth, I recommend to everyone that they do not use a mantra during DEILD, as that would definitely be counterproductive.

Originally Posted by Sageous

Sure, if a mantra is a distraction to you and you have a "silent" method for maintaining self-awareness, then by all means, dump the mantra. I included a mantra in this course not because it is the only way to hold focus, but because it is about the easiest way to do so. If you've got skills that exceed the value of a mantra, than skip it.

Oh cool. I didn't realize that.

Originally Posted by Sageous

Oh, and for what it's worth, I recommend to everyone that they do not use a mantra during DEILD, as that would definitely be counterproductive.

Hmm I was taking the same approach. Good to know.

It seems most often that when I attempt to WILD, always w/ a WBTB, I fall asleep when my dreams start to form. It isn't the type of dream that I can be lucid in, it's like a daydream, it's off in the distance and it's just there to keep my mind occupied until REM. I've had a few DEILDs, which I consider to be a type of WILD, however.

^^ It sounds like DEILD might be your route, Lahzo. And yes, DEILD is indeed a form of WILD, so you're still doing the conscious dive sometime, even if your mind won't work with you during a classic WILD dive.

Regarding your notes about WILD, you might consider modifying your mantra into something that helps hold your attention during the naturally confusing transitional stage of WILD. You might also work on more solidly setting intention before the dive, as doing so might not only help with maintaining focus, but might set you up for a DILD if you should still lose waking consciousness.

I tried WILD this morning. Everytime I felt the noise coming on strong my heart would start racing. I knew that once I got over the hump it would all fall into place. But my excitement took away my momentum and I was back to square one. After what seemed like forever I decided to give up. I RCd just in case and looked at the clock it was only 30min. I did happen to have a couple DILDs and a Brief DEILD after that so not all was lost. My question is how do I over come the excitement? I know its just noise and not a stage or mile marker and I should ignore it but my DEILDs are always straight in SP. Which brings another question. Why are DEILDs so much easier for me? It's almost second nature. When I time it right of course.

Originally Posted by Xanous

I tried WILD this morning. Everytime I felt the noise coming on strong my heart would start racing. I knew that once I got over the hump it would all fall into place. But my excitement took away my momentum and I was back to square one. After what seemed like forever I decided to give up. I RCd just in case and looked at the clock it was only 30min. I did happen to have a couple DILDs and a Brief DEILD after that so not all was lost. My question is how do I over come the excitement?

You do this by continuing what you are already doing: recognize the things that get you excited and, over much time, gradually assimilate those things into your routine as just more noise and certainly nothing to get excited about. It takes a while, especially if you're excited to distraction right out of the chutes, but stay with it, because you're already doing the right things (or perhaps at least thinking bout them, at this stage). In the meantime, you've still got an active DILD and DEILD life, so the LD's are coming somehow, regardless...

I know its just noise and not a stage or mile marker and I should ignore it but my DEILDs are always straight in SP. Which brings another question. Why are DEILDs so much easier for me? It's almost second nature. When I time it right of course.

They're easier, I think, because DEILD bypasses the distracting noise, it can happen very quickly, and you can use existing dream residue rather than spend time and psychic energy producing a dream. And yes, with experience, DEILD's literally become second nature, because over time your expectations become trained to "assume" DEILD's will happen at a particular time, so it takes very little effort to make the transition... at least, that's what I've experienced (DEILD is my preferred LD'ing tool, BTW -- though in full disclosure I was doing it long before the term was invented, so I'm not sure I ever "learned" the technique ... I just naturally knew it -- go figure).

I had been attempting WILDs for many months before Gab kindly pointed me in the direction of your course in her response to my cry for help in overcoming a 4-month dry spell.

Thank you for a very thorough course, Sageous, and for all your work on this forum! I've learned a lot from you.

I admit I was too impatient to wait for a few weeks before I attempt WILD again, and tried last night. I have now resolved to devote a whole month to incorporating RRCs into my daily routine and mindset before trying again.

That said, I have a question about my last night's attempt. I woke up from a dream naturally, got out of bed, went to the bathroom, had a drink of water, and wrote my dream in my DJ. I settled back, lied on my side (I will try lying on my back next time, per your suggestion to RareCola). I started repeating my mantra (I'm focused, I'm mindful, I'm going to remember). There was quite a lot of noise coming in from the street; every time I noticed it distracting me, I tried to bring my mind gently back to my mantra while relegating outside noises to the perifery. The first HI arrived within a few minutes, I noted its existence, and went back to my mantra. At some point I started feeling increasingly awake. I love scuba in real life, so I visualized diving to bring myself deeper, and then went back to my mantra. A dream scene started developing but I could still hear the noise from the street and feel my body in my bed; it felt like being stuck between waking and dream reality. I got a bit confused, forgot to stick with my mantra, and started wondering whether it was the right time to start incubating a dream, or whether it was just a HI dreamlet that I shouldn't pay too much attention to. All that thinking brought me right back to wakefulness.

Should I have ignored the scene, and stuck with my mantra until I was sure I was asleep? Should I have pursued the scene, whether it was a nascent dream or just noise?

Of course, I'll appreciate any other feedback you may have; I'm sure I have many blindspots.

Thanks a lot!
Michal

Originally Posted by michalginter

I admit I was too impatient to wait for a few weeks before I attempt WILD again, and tried last night. I have now resolved to devote a whole month to incorporating RRCs into my daily routine and mindset before trying again.

That was an excellent resolution, I think!

That said, I have a question about my last night's attempt. I woke up from a dream naturally, got out of bed, went to the bathroom, had a drink of water, and wrote my dream in my DJ. I settled back, lied on my side (I will try lying on my back next time, per your suggestion to RareCola). I started repeating my mantra (I'm focused, I'm mindful, I'm going to remember). There was quite a lot of noise coming in from the street; every time I noticed it distracting me, I tried to bring my mind gently back to my mantra while relegating outside noises to the perifery. The first HI arrived within a few minutes, I noted its existence, and went back to my mantra. At some point I started feeling increasingly awake. I love scuba in real life, so I visualized diving to bring myself deeper, and then went back to my mantra. A dream scene started developing but I could still hear the noise from the street and feel my body in my bed; it felt like being stuck between waking and dream reality. I got a bit confused, forgot to stick with my mantra, and started wondering whether it was the right time to start incubating a dream, or whether it was just a HI dreamlet that I shouldn't pay too much attention to. All that thinking brought me right back to wakefulness.

Should I have ignored the scene, and stuck with my mantra until I was sure I was asleep? Should I have pursued the scene, whether it was a nascent dream or just noise?

It sounds like you did everything well, but that distraction from the street was enough to break the mood and the WILD. Since it's very difficult to be "sure" you are asleep -- and conversely be "sure" you are still awake -- during WILD, it's best I think to always work toward the dream. And yeah, that probably was a dream forming, but it didn't matter because you were already losing the battle with the waking-life street noises. If you could have held it together by somehow ignoring the street noise, the dream images probably would've been worth your attention. And yes, if you "think" during the process that some images are more coherent than HI and might be a dream, they will likely become one, even if physiologically they started out as noise. Expectation is funny that way.

Regarding the mantra, I'm not sure I mentioned this in the course, but part of using it well is ceasing to use it when the dream starts. If you think you've got a dream forming, then the mantra has done its job and continued repetition of it might both keep your body awake and distract you from your mission. If you're in a dream, then let the mantra go. If you find yourself starting to dream but some outside force (like that street noise) is determined to keep you awake/distracted, I'm not sure a mantra will help much anyway -- unless you can say it out loud at high volume. Also just a quick suggestion: You might shorten that mantra a bit, perhaps by getting rid of the "I'm's" -- "Focused, mindful, remember" ought to be enough, and it erases the need to remember all that grammar. ... just a thought, though, as the mantra is generally okay.

I hope that helped, Michal, and I hope you are also successful in your experiment in patience. I also hope that you're able to do something to avoid all that noise in future attempts (white noise machines work well, I've found).

Wait what? Can you transition from HI into Lucid dream without the noise? Because I think I did that last weekend and didn't even realize it. It was late morning and I was in and out of dreams trying to WILD. It was like a daydream that just became gradually more real. I just thought it was DILD because I had no noise or SP it just flowed smoothly. After reading michalginter's post I wonder.

Thank you, Sageous, for a helpful response.

I've just had a flashback and remembered that when the dream scene started developing but I could still hear the noise from the street and feel my body in bed, and appeared to be stuck between the two worlds, the me that was thinking that thought was lying on my back, while in the physical world, I was lying on my side. So I must have been asleep. Unfortunately, I didn't manage to carry enough self-awareness over to even think of doing a reality check. Dang!

Well, I'll stick with working on my RRCs and awareness for now.

Thanks for the mantra suggestion! Makes a lot of sense.

As for the noise, we only sleep with our windows open when it's too hot in the apartment. On those nights, I usually wear earplugs. I didn't put them in last night, because I had no difficulties falling asleep the first time around. I should've aborted the WILD and put earplugs in the moment I realized the noise was distracting. Oh well, live and learn.

Thanks again!
Michal

ive been half assing my WILD attempts so far. Im gonna give this a go for real tonight. I havent really been trying to WILD since i last posted on here but i when i do start counting or saying a mantra, im pretty sure i know about when i fall to sleep so i have a good understanding on not to lose focus at a certain point during the dive. Will be posting my results tomorrow!

so let me ask this again. Even though i sleep on my side. I should be attempting this on my back? The reason being is thats its harder to fall asleep and will help keep awareness? Does arm/hand placement matter? Like is it better to keep arms placed near sides or can i rest them on my stomach area?

Originally Posted by xpin2winx

so let me ask this again. Even though i sleep on my side. I should be attempting this on my back? The reason being is thats its harder to fall asleep and will help keep awareness? Does arm/hand placement matter? Like is it better to keep arms placed near sides or can i rest them on my stomach area?

I guess the correct answer to this question is to use the sleep posture that best assists your WILD.

Stupid answer, I know, but the "right" posture does vary from person to person. I've found personally that sleeping on my back works best (though I do have to keep my head turned to the side to avoid snoring), with sleeping on my right side a close second. You might also be correct in guessing that sleeping on your back makes it slightly harder to fall asleep, thus helping keep your awareness around longer. Also, the Tibetan dream yogis seem to use the same postures, if that means anything -- which it very well might not.

Regarding hand positions, I've found that keeping them to my sides works best, because it reduces the chance of distraction from contact with my stomach. If you're sleeping on your side, the yogis say that your right hand should be under your head/pillow, and
left should be resting on your hip.

All that said, be careful not to take the posture stuff too seriously. It's important to find your best posture, but don't take it too seriously, lest it distract you from your work.

Good luck tonight, and I hope you are able to make a "full-assed" attempt.

My Attempt

Spoiler for My Dream:

So, I sat there in bed. And Then I heard the noises, thought nothing of it, and kept waiting. Well, that was about it.....I felt the "pre-noise" vibration(I made that up(Unless it already has been)) a few more scattered times, but that's about it. But, the next day, before I fell asleep(the first time) if I stayed in one place for 2.5 mins then I felt the vibrations again. No matter how much I moved around to stop it, it returned in 2.5 mins. And the next day(except in 15 min intervals) Any advice?

Originally Posted by yost

My Attempt

So, I sat there in bed. And Then I heard the noises, thought nothing of it, and kept waiting. Well, that was about it.....I felt the "pre-noise" vibration(I made that up(Unless it already has been)) a few more scattered times, but that's about it. But, the next day, before I fell asleep(the first time) if I stayed in one place for 2.5 mins then I felt the vibrations again. No matter how much I moved around to stop it, it returned in 2.5 mins. And the next day(except in 15 min intervals) Any advice?

Sounds like you made a step or two in the right direction, Yost; with one exception.

That pre-noise vibration might have been beginnings of your transition into sleep and dream... or it could have been something else altogether, given it's unusual repetition cycle. Regarding its return, and return the next day, I'm afraid I haven't a clue; I've never heard of anything happening like that before; not with such precision anyway. You ought to be able to wait out such things, I'd think, but if these vibrations persist, you might want to back off doing WILD's for a time.

many thank yous to the reply, good sir. i realize now that it returned because i was now scared of it and didnt want it to. i relly didnt. but the third day, i realized it and it dissapeard. so, could you give me some advice on how not too wimp outt? i tried this morning and i quit the moment i heard noise. i feel like an idiot. help please? thanks

^^ The easiest way to "not wimp out" is by slowly getting to "know" these odd new noises, vibrations etc, that you're encountering, getting used to them, and finally coming to terms with the fact that they are harmless, meaningless, and do little more than stand in the way of your lucid adventures. From your posts I can see you are already heading on the right direction -- feeling like an idiot is a good sign, not a bad one (attaching meaning like the vibrations are evil would have been a bad sign).

The best advice I can give here is stay on the path you're on, and give it time. Eventually all the currently unsettled bits of You will adapt to the noise, and you'll find it easier to get along with it -- indeed, with practice you'll be ignoring the noise altogether. But, alas, these things take time. Less for you, though, because you already have the good sense to not take them seriously!

Not successful with WILD yet still going for it! Hoping to achieve it soon.

Never Give Up!