Tell me about your most controversial view.

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Originally Posted by CymekSniper

BTW Universal Mind, I feel the same way. Except, of course what you said about our national anthem.

People just don't get Bush. They don't seem to look at the big picture and toward the future. His decisions aren't all bad.

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Really? Do you look at the big picture of governmental power, national debt, a strung out military, weaker borders and a weaker national defense as "not all bad" Not to mention our economy is crashing and the dollar hit a new low this week.

The only thing good people said he has done is donate more money to aids relief, but once you look into that "aids relief" is just a coverup, their aids relief is part of their "war on terror" and they use to spread democracy. This isn't some "liberal view" I am striving towards traditional conservatism, george bush is NOT a conservative at all, and the war in Iraq has caused more problems for us than helped us. There was no Al Qeada in Iraq before we went in.

I am just curious as to the good you see him as doing?

I have been pondering putting this to words.
As I read the members controversial posts I realize, yaa. I can relate to many.

As the civil liberties would be in question, I have pondered a way to create a form of population control.
It seems like a no brainer to me. Dwindling resources and too many people equals a problem.
Is it that hard to swallow the notion of limiting our offspring. Is three children not enough?

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Originally Posted by jaasum

Really? Do you look at the big picture of governmental power, national debt, a strung out military, weaker borders and a weaker national defense as "not all bad" Not to mention our economy is crashing and the dollar hit a new low this week.

The only thing good people said he has done is donate more money to aids relief, but once you look into that "aids relief" is just a coverup, their aids relief is part of their "war on terror" and they use to spread democracy. This isn't some "liberal view" I am striving towards traditional conservatism, george bush is NOT a conservative at all, and the war in Iraq has caused more problems for us than helped us. There was no Al Qeada in Iraq before we went in.

I am just curious as to the good you see him as doing?

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Now, I'm not going to get into yet another internet debate (I hate those) but I will say that this is a perfect example of what I said in the post you replied to. You just simply aren't taking every factor into consideration and if you did, you would realize why some of the points you just made are invalid.

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Originally Posted by Howie

I have been pondering putting this to words.
As I read the members controversial posts I realize, yaa. I can relate to many.

As the civil liberties would be in question, I have pondered a way to create a form of population control.
It seems like a no brainer to me. Dwindling resources and too many people equals a problem.
Is it that hard to swallow the notion of limiting our offspring. Is three children not enough?

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I love the part of the matrix movie when agent smith explains to neo that we as a human race are like a virus that has infected the earth. I'm trying to look it up now - I wanna get the exact quote. . . . .

I don't like stupid people. I find them exasperating.

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Originally Posted by goldney

I don't like stupid people. I find them exasperating.

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Think about how stupid the average person it. Now imagine how 50% of people are stupider than that... OMG

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Originally Posted by Oneironaught

Wow. I don't know what to say. :?

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I exaggerated a bit, but I do believe we should blow the whole middle east off the face of the earth.

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Originally Posted by Michael

I exaggerated a bit, but I do believe we should blow the whole middle east off the face of the earth.

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This is exaggerating a little bit.

One of my most controversial views is that a lot of stereotypes are true.

Black people can jump high.
White people can't dance
Jewish people like bagels
Chinese people are good at math and science
People from the South are stupid

I believe that discrimination is necessary for public security, no matter how politically incorrect it is.
I believe that freedom of speech is overrated and abused.
I believe that the vast majority of the human population is dumber than me.
I believe in communism and its ideals.
I believe that humanity is stupid because it will never be able to make it work on a large scale.
And a few other nastier ones too that I'll keep to myself...

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Originally Posted by wasup

This is exaggerating a little bit.

One of my most controversial views is that a lot of stereotypes are true.

Black people can jump high.
White people can't dance
Jewish people like bagels
Chinese people are good at math and science
People from the South are stupid

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To add on that:

-All black people that arent gay are wannabe gangsters
-Black people are best at every sport, except swimming.
-White people do the weirdest things... rape/serial killers/suicide....
-All asians are good at math, not just chinese
-All british people are ugly
-All preppy people are assholes
-All gothic people are anti-social/fuckin weird
-Black people have big noses and lips, unless they are half breeds.
-Cops are lazy fat bastards
-Americans are the best
-Jews are greedy and also have big noses
-Girls aren't funny
-America is the best at everything
-Japanese are sneaky bastards
-Mexicans all smoke weed hahaha and drive with 20 people in the car.
-Germans are always so serious
-Canadians leave their doors unlocked.
-Gay guys wanna be girls

all those are true for the most part but theres exceptions. except all british people really are ugly hahaahahahahhaa

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Originally Posted by Michael

-All british people are ugly

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Except for 1% of their women.

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-Americans are the best

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Hahaha

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-America is the best at everything

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Hahahahahaha :rolllaugh:

I believe that in the future the distinction between state and corporation will become less and less defined because in the end, the money rules. This always reminds me of a Mussolini quote.

“Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of corporate and government power.”

I believe the entire planet is in a critical state, including our own race. We're about to reach the sun and our wings are melting. Sometimes I walk around the city and I wonder what it would all look like 10 years after the last human had died. I saw plants growing all over the concrete buildings, and in a way it was beautiful.

Of course, that's only in my dark moods.

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Originally Posted by CymekSniper

Now, I'm not going to get into yet another internet debate (I hate those) but I will say that this is a perfect example of what I said in the post you replied to. You just simply aren't taking every factor into consideration and if you did, you would realize why some of the points you just made are invalid.

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NO, I am interested into seeing your factor. Because I used to be an ultra neo-conservative and support bush and the war whole heatedly. but once I started looked at facts and REALLY looking into it I saw support of such an atrocity as un-patriotic and blind. So I am curious as to what compelling evidence you have backed with historical, political and factual support that this war has ANYTHING to do with our interests. Because when I look at the facts I don't see anything that supports your view. So seriously, provide me with something that can convince me otherwise. Convince me that thousands of our soldiers and innocent Iraqi citizens deaths are worth it, otherwise I am forced to be bitterly opposed to it and do everything I can to restore interest in the American people, our safety and our liberty. Just saying the things I stated are "not true" aren't going to cut and I need some solid evidence.

Sorry if I am more passionate than I usually would be on such topic, 5-6 beers might blur my political correctness on some matters. But I find this acceptance of a force-fed view provided by the media (especially fox news) as so blindly informed to the point of believe]ing pathological liars and dismissing documented, and proved facts.

Now, before you get me wrong, I am no conspiracy theorist, Alex Jones worshipping idiot. I just feel that the Bush administration fails to look at history and the reality of the situation to properly protect and progress the American situation. I feel they are corrupt and ignorant morons.

But I can assure you, I want every bit as much as you do to see the right people brought to justice and the American people defended. I just don't see how anything they have done has accomplished any of this.

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Originally Posted by jaasum

Really? Do you look at the big picture of governmental power, national debt, a strung out military, weaker borders and a weaker national defense as "not all bad" Not to mention our economy is crashing and the dollar hit a new low this week.

The only thing good people said he has done is donate more money to aids relief, but once you look into that "aids relief" is just a coverup, their aids relief is part of their "war on terror" and they use to spread democracy. This isn't some "liberal view" I am striving towards traditional conservatism, george bush is NOT a conservative at all, and the war in Iraq has caused more problems for us than helped us. There was no Al Qeada in Iraq before we went in.

I am just curious as to the good you see him as doing?

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I will answer your question, but I don't want this turning into an Iraq thread. We have plenty of those in Extended Discussion, so please take this conversation there if you want to respond. Just make sure you read what I have already written in the given thread first.

No matter what you say about Iraq, you cannot deny that certain good things have resulted from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Tons of people who have it in them to die in the name of fighting against democracy, which is a major Al Qaeda stand, have been killed or captured. I think that is one of the unspoken goals in our war. Iraq and Afghanistan have democratic governments and therefore a shot at a future of democracy, which they never would have had under the horribly oppressive regimes they lived under just a few years ago. A large democracy in the heart of the Middle East, with its influence toward the spreading of democracy in the area, is a great long term plan against the suicide bomber mentality. The suicide killer mentality generally comes from poverty and hoplessness. With democracy comes large scale success, which is a great weapon against Islamofascism. Bush has shown that there is a huge price to pay for pulling domestic attacks on the United States. Two Islamofascist governments were overthrown in the wake of the 9/11 attacks. That is an excellent deterrent. Also, under Bush, there have been no more domestic terrorist attacks since 9/11. You should applaud that. He also gave us a piss ant tax cut a few years ago, and that was better than nothing.

But any way, my point was that Bush is not acting out of evil in everything he does. It is amusing how even that point pisses a lot of people off, but it is true. I still disagree with Bush on a lot of things. You mentioned the border, and that is a huge one. I am a million miles from agreeing with him on social issues.

Apologies, I don't even understand how that post came out as coherent because I was soooo drunk when I did that.

Anyways, I will look for the extend discussion because I obviously have stuff to say as well as you do.

*thread hijack ended*

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Originally Posted by jaasum

NO, I am interested into seeing your factor. Because I used to be an ultra neo-conservative and support bush and the war whole heatedly. but once I started looked at facts and REALLY looking into it I saw support of such an atrocity as un-patriotic and blind. So I am curious as to what compelling evidence you have backed with historical, political and factual support that this war has ANYTHING to do with our interests. Because when I look at the facts I don't see anything that supports your view. So seriously, provide me with something that can convince me otherwise. Convince me that thousands of our soldiers and innocent Iraqi citizens deaths are worth it, otherwise I am forced to be bitterly opposed to it and do everything I can to restore interest in the American people, our safety and our liberty. Just saying the things I stated are "not true" aren't going to cut and I need some solid evidence.

Sorry if I am more passionate than I usually would be on such topic, 5-6 beers might blur my political correctness on some matters. But I find this acceptance of a force-fed view provided by the media (especially fox news) as so blindly informed to the point of believe]ing pathological liars and dismissing documented, and proved facts.

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Hell no! I'm getting out of this one early.

Human beings are not, never have been and never will be born free and equal.
Any society that purports to uphold this as a self-evident truth is lying to itself.

No society has ever been a society of equals and any society that tries to be such will fail.

Got to be a sign of maturity: 4 pages on this topic without degenerating into flamewar.

Um...
I wear an anti-MS, pro-Free Software badge, but right now I can't think of anything controversial I feel really zealous about, which is sad. So heres my metaphysics and philosophy, which is unusual enough to make up for lack of zeal. It's highly unoriginal but not very wide spread.

Ia) Maths is universal. If 2+2=5 then it's because you assign different meanings to the symbols I use. Symbols are just that: conventions for communication. The actual math is the same for the fish-eyed zombies in the dimension next door.
Ib) Math has meaning in and of itself. If you have a set of rules for manipulating symbols which allow you to add two numbers, then that set of rules [b]is[/i] addition. It doesn't matter that you have to convert your idea of a number, in all it's platonic abstractness, into a sequence of digits before the rules can work, or that you have to do the reverse and interpret the answer
2a) We are math. The universe runs on a set of rules, and it can all be boiled down to maths - This Means You. The entire universe could be simulated on a sufficiently large enough computer. A turing machine could do it. A finite state machine could do the interesting bits; it might not be able to cope with an indefinitely expanding universe, but if our universe ends up continually expanding, there'll still be a finite amount of matter and energy so it'll end up very cold and very boring anyway. If quantumn mechanics really is significant, it would slow down a classical computer simulation but it would still work, and theres nothing non-mathematical about the quantum computer than could run it at full speed.
2b) Our universe only real because we are in it. The simulated universe would seem just as real; we may well be in it. You can simulate other universes by choosing different rules and starting conditions, and they would be just as real. They *are* just as real, they "exist" outside of simulations in our universe, just as much as our universe "exists".

This is controversial because it completely denies spirituality. Spiritual ideas come naturally and are widely held as self evident. Ironically, ideas about meaning: that the world has an all pervasive meaning in which we are central, that it was created by intelligence, that who you are has a meaning beyond your body and lifetime, that what you do has an absolute moral meaning (good or bad) that derives from these sources.

I could go on. Suffice it to say that I believe you're limiting yourself if you think your life is just a dream in a greater reality. Ideas stolen from GEB, author Douglas Hofstadter; if they're mangled somewhat then the fault is purely my own.

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Originally Posted by Alban

Human beings are not, never have been and never will be born free and equal.
Any society that purports to uphold this as a self-evident truth is lying to itself.

No society has ever been a society of equals and any society that tries to be such will fail.

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Heres another controversial view.

Equality of outcomes is impossible. Equality of opportunity though, is surely a noble goal; it's otherwise known as fairness. As the saying goes, lifes not fair. The unwritten rejoinder is that doesn't mean we can't make it fairer. Absolutes corrupt; absolute self-interest would be evil just as absolute equality would be evil.

Any individual that tries to apply a single absolute principle is lying to themself. They have the ability to see the other side and they have supressed it. If their society stresses particular absolutes to a dangerous degree, they may apply opposing absolutes to reduce the danger, but they should not blind themselves to the dangers of their own absolutes.

This post courtesy of Frank Herbert.

Not sure what my most controversial view is, but I have been called a nazi for this one, so I'm sure its up there on the list.

I want to create a closed society of elite humans. Entrance to this society will involve genetic, intelligence, personality, and aesthetic testing to insure that only the most highly evolved human genetic strains are accepted. The purpose of this society will be to close breeding to within its ranks and to exclude inferior genetic material in order to create a more efficient and segregated gene pool for faster genetic purification. This will allow for a new species branch from the standard homo sapiens and eventually will lead to a superior race of humans.

Good idea, but I my controversial view is that genetic engineering and biotechnological enhancement will make such a closed society moot, and will do so within twenty years.

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Originally Posted by R.D.735

Good idea, but I my controversial view is that genetic engineering and biotechnological enhancement will make such a closed society moot, and will do so within twenty years.

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The problem with relying solely on genetic engineering is that once you have the science down, the only improvements you can make are ones that you can imagine. The natural system of genetic enhancement (mutation and natural selection) allows for random, unthought-of combinations that may surpass anything that we would think to target on our own.

Also, I think 20 years is being a bit over-confident. Even if this sort of thing was possible within 20 years, it would only be available to the incredibly rich, and therefore would create an elitist society based entirely on money; which in my opinion is not exactly the prime of the species currently. Also, my society allows for a more communal child rearing tactic that is communistic within the society but capitolistic in the way it deals with the outside world.

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Originally Posted by sourcejedi

Got to be a sign of maturity: 4 pages on this topic without degenerating into flamewar.

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We're obviously doing something wrong then.

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...from GEB, author Douglas Hofstadter; if they're mangled somewhat then the fault is purely my own.

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Perhaps the most intelligent and thought-provoking book ever written by a Human Being.

People are so different in beliefs and actions that everything is subjective.