Thread: Experiments with a strobe light

Sounds worth trying. I also highly recommend the layering tissue paper over the light. It worked perfectly for me.

BTW, I bought a second timer (the same one) tonight to try your idea. I'll report back tomorrow with the results.

I think the Japanese have recently released a multi sense 'dream machine' that uses smell along with other ques.
I have only used smell sense a little.
Sometimes lavender oil for when I sleep, and I used it a bit last night durind a MILD prep/meditation/mantra session
I have always found it helps give me the odd vivid and emotional dream. Thats before I ever knew anythig about it's properties acording to aromatherapy, so I gues there has to be something in it that works.

I never actually thought of using a mask for the LEDs. I think I'd probably find it hard to sleep in but I may give it a try.
My bigest concern is the ticking of the clock
I am used to sleeping in a dead quiet room.

Pandragon,

I was wondering how often you have lucid dreams with the strobe light, or if you are even still using it. I was not having much luck at all. I finally had to unplug the damn timer because the strobelight kept waking me up in the middle of the night / morning.

Well, at this point, the experiment is at another stand still.

The strobe works perfectly for giving me a signal in my dreams. I see the light in my dreams every time it comes on. And your suggestion to use 2 timers to adjust the time cycles worked great as well. I can adjust the cycles down to 1 second intervals if I want to.

My problem is the clicking sound the strobe light makes each time the light flickers on and off. I just can't seem to sleep through that noise and neither can my wife.

Recently I bought a small $15 lamp with a 7.5 Watt bulb to use in place of the strobe. The advantage is that it's completely silent, but for some reason (probably because it doesn't flicker on and off) I have yet to notice the light in my dreams. It either wakes me up or I sleep right through it.

Also, it's important to note that due to an old back injury acting up, I haven't been sleeping well for the past few weeks. So it's hard to say how well it works unless I'm getting a good 8 hours sleep.

I've actually been planning on going back to the strobe light, since it was much more effective. But I'm stuck on finding the best way to insulate it so that it doesn't produce any noise.

Any suggestions?

P.S. How is the strobe light waking you? By light or sound?

If it's a matter of the light being too bright, my solution was to buy a package of red tissue paper (used for wrapping gifts) at the local drug store for $2.

All you have to do is layer it in sheets until you find the level of brightness that is comfortable enough to sleep through, but still noticeable in your dreams. For me, it was 20 sheets. It makes a lovely, soft red glow, not harsh at all on the eyes.

Hope that helps and please let me know if you have any suggestions.

At first, it was the light that was waking me up, because I didn't have it covered. After I covered the light, I don't think it was bright enough to wake me up. But I was still waking up, so the sound is a major factor.

Hmm. So I'm not alone with the sound issue!

Well, personally I'm convinced the strobe could help me go lucid several times a week if I can just get rid of that clicking noise. Hopefully one of us will come up with something soon...

In the meantime, how are you covering the light? Are you able to adjust it? The reason I mention the tissue paper is because that way, you can adjust the brightness very gradually by adding or removing just one sheet of paper at a time. If you play around and keep track of how many sheets you use each time you go to sleep, it should be easy to find the perfect level after a few days.

I've found that it works better to have it fairly bright, but with a short time cycle like 3-5 seconds. That way, it's strong enough to get your attention, but not long enough to wipe out your dreamscape. At least, that's my experience. Once I got the light at a good level of brightness, it's always been the sound that actually wakes me up.

Have you tried putting the strobe light at a distance? If you find that it's not bright enough, you could always remove a layer or two of the tissue paper. Maybe putting it in the hallway outside of your room and leaving the door open or something? I'm not very good when it comes to modifying electronics, but I'm just curious.

That's a good idea, maybe it will work for Lucky.

But since my wife sleeps in the same bed with me, and she doesn't want to have lucid dreams (I know, it's hard to believe why anyone wouldn't want to), the best place for the strobe is mounted on the wall over my head, facing down. That way, the flash is mostly focused on me. It also makes it effective regardless of what side I'm sleeping on, since I tend to change positions a lot.

I thnk my only option is some form of insulation to muffle the noise...

I think i'll try it one more time, changed a few things... and I honestly doubt it is going to work. But since I am extremely bored and have nothing else to do; I figure what the hell.

So, i'll set my alarm to wake me up at 4:30. When it wakes me up, I'll play a CD that I made, (it starts off with Track1 -- 12 minutes of "Ocean waves" (Just some noise until I fall asleep.) Then Track2 -- has a recording of me telling myself that i'm dreaming for about a minute. (In hopes that i'll hear it in a dream.) Then Track3 -- goes back to the "Ocean waves")

So, I set the strobe light timer to go off at 4:40, just as the first track is ending, so i'll already have background noise, and maybe the click-click-click-click-click won't seem as loud.

I'll try it for a few of nights and see how it works, making neccesary asjustments as needed.

Sounds like a good idea. Unfortunately it's not an option for me. But I hope it works.

I decided to go ahead and switch back to the strobe light last night. However, I've been sleeping like crap lately (average 4-5 hours) and I took valerian before bed, so I only noticed the flash once. I saw it in my dreams, but the light was too strong and woke me up. I'll reduce the brightness tonight.

Funny thing, this time the sound wasn't a problem. Might be because I was more thorough about wrapping it this time or that I'm just sleeping heavier these days.

Anyway, I had an idea for reducing the noise - athletic bandages. It might help to wrap the 4 sides in joint support bandages or a similiar cloth in long strips and then cover the whole thing in a thick cloth, like fleece. I'm not sure how much it would cost to wrap it sufficiently, but I think it could help to have a tight cover around the sides...

That is a good Idea, my strobelight has little slits on the top and bottom. That is what is letting out about 75% of the noise.

For the past couple of nights since i've used the light and the CD, I haven't been woken up by the strobelight (light or sound.) It's the CD that keeps waking me up, as soon as my voice comes on and says "This is a dream ... You are dreaming" it wakes me up. I think I might just use a song that I rarely ever listen to, instead of my own voice though.

Anyways, I was trying to think of way to cover those little slits, and your idea is better than anything I could come up with.

Glad the light isn't a problem anymore. I had the same issue with an LD Affirmation CD I made. My own voice would wake me up every time. But then my CD alarm clock is getting old and it's hard to control the volume these days. I'm shopping for a new one that can play CD-R's and CD-RW's...

I checked out the price on joint support bandages. It doesn't appear economically feasible. Instead I'm going to take an old wall hanging made of thin cotton material and start cutting it into strips.

The things I'll do for an LD...

in regards to keeping your focus while the strobe is flashing, try dream spinning immediatly after ur lucidity is triggered until u feel its safe . I can imagine this might take some pratice but it may yield great rewards. 8)

For me, the problem is that when the light is too bright, or the sound too loud, I instantly lose my dream body, and feel my real one. I become awake again in less than a second, so there's really no way to maintain my dreamscape once I've lost contact with my dream body.

The thing is, I'm recovering from an old back injury, so I'm often sore when I fall asleep. When I feel my real body again even for a second, I become aware of the soreness and it tends to make it difficult to just slip back into my dreams...

Pandragon have you considered wearing ear-muffs? I know they might be uncomfortable, and it might take you longer to get to sleep, but it should reduce the noise cosiderably. Or you could even try cotton balls or ear plugs- whatever is least intrusive. I would recommend falling asleep to some background noise, as this will make the clicking sound less contrasting to the ambient noise already present, but as your wife also has to be taken into consideration perhaps this isn't really possible, even with headphones.

If all else fails, try having three separate non-strobe lights connected, that turn on/off one after the other. This would obviously increase the cost involved by quite a bit, but I guess the clicking noise would be eliminated

Dear Pandragon,

maybe you are too functionally set upon using that annoying strobe light which you should save for drug parties or Seventies Retro Parties or whatever. Maybe you should hook your really neat Timer Device into the power feed of some speakers set to play a gentle low volume audio suggestion to have a lucid dream. Just think about it -- you are in a dream and see some annoying flashing lights, which your Dream might incorporate into a dream ambulance going by... or you are in a dream, and a Voice begins telling you that "You are Dreaming, You are Dreaming, You are Dreaming"... now, which set of inputs is more likely to suggest to you that you are dreaming?

Bricnic -

Thanks for the suggestions. Unfortunately, I'm one of those chaps who doesn't fall asleep easily using googles or headphones. The strobe light makes the click at each on/off flash cycle, so whether it's 1 strobe light or 3 of them, it's the same noise. Actually, I'm on the verge of completely solving the noise issue, so it's no longer a factor. But thanks anyway for the input.



Dear Leo Volont -

As I've said many times throughout the thread, the light is by far the most effective dream sign I've found yet. I never confuse it for anything but what it is. That's why I find this experiment to be a worthy pursuit. If it was annoying, I wouldn't bother now would I? As I've also said many times in this thread, I'm convinced it will work for me, it's just a matter of adjusting the stimulus (and getting some decent sleep which is really more the current issue).

As for audio suggestion, I've tried that in the past and it hasn't worked thus far. In fact, didn't I just say that like 4 posts ago??? Did you read EWLD? My experience matches the same reasons that LeBarge concluded light stimulus is the most effective way to externally induce a dream sign.

But not to worry, I plan to record a new audio CD for my CD alarm clock and can use it with the strobe light! So I don't have to choose between them. Now isn't THAT convenient?

Originally posted by Pandragon

Dear Leo Volont -

As I've said many times throughout the thread, the light is by far the most effective dream sign I've found yet. I never confuse it for anything but what it is. That's why I find this experiment to be a worthy pursuit. If it was annoying, I wouldn't bother now would I? As I've also said many times in this thread, I'm convinced it will work for me, it's just a matter of adjusting the stimulus (and getting some decent sleep which is really more the current issue).

As for audio suggestion, I've tried that in the past and it hasn't worked thus far. In fact, didn't I just say that like 4 posts ago??? Did you read EWLD? My experience matches the same reasons that LeBarge concluded light stimulus is the most effective way to externally induce a dream sign.

But not to worry, I plan to record a new audio CD for my CD alarm clock and can use it with the strobe light! So I don't have to choose between them. Now isn't THAT convenient?

I'm sorry, but I guess I just read the five or six posts in which you endlessly complained that the lights were waking you up at the wrong time and making your wife contemplate divorce.... but if it is working so well, after all, I guess it was my mistake to suppose you were stubbornly pursuing a dead end simply because you did not want to admit that you had wasted money on what will eventually end up being a dust collector or a garage sale bargain.

Oh, and if a blinding light flashing in the middle of the night is so helpful for your dreams, maybe you should think how much better it would be if you could arrange to have a sledge hammer slam you on your skull periodically... wouldn't that work even better?

I suppose that if a person drills hard enough and long enough with anything as a reminder to Lucid Dream, then eventually anything will eventually have some results. But I think that Stephen Labarge chose to have LED Lights put into his NOVA Dreamer contraption because they were the cheapest possible electronic component he could put into a device he could charge over a hundred dollars for. Hmmmm. 2 thirtyfive cent LED's for a hundred dollars... sounds better than working for a living, huh?

so what do I think of an fifty dollar strobe light that does the same thing as a thirtyfive cent LED, but needs to be filtered down because it is too bright. First, its like using an elephant gun to shoot a squirrel. Why not use a 5 Watt night light if you absolutely have to use light. But remember that Labarge chose light only because light was the cheapest way to go. Little speakers and oscillators cost a few bucks and would have cut down on his profit margin. so what is the use of being Derivative -- stealing an idea -- from somebody when the idea was not very utilitarian in the first place.

In the end, everyone, including yourself, as you admit, goes to audio.

Leo,

you're clearly not interested in having a discussion here and your comments are neither helpful or appreciated. It's obvious your only intention here is to vent frustrations at fellow board members, so please do it somewhere else.

Pandragon,

Although I did actually say "try having three separate non-strobe lights connected" I can understand where you're coming from. In fact I've come up with a different idea- does the timer make a clicking noise when it activates/deactivates? Because if it doesn't, you could theoretically have like 6 or so timers all set up at 1 second apart from each other, giving a "on..off...on...off...on...off" effect (attach this rig to a NON strobe light, the timers will create the strobe effect by themselves). Not sure whether this will overload the circuit or indeed be very good for the bulb but merely a suggestion.

Originally posted by Pandragon
Even More Fine Tuning, More Success, The Experiment Hits a Wall:

*More Fine Tuning -

*Last night I added another 5 sheets of colored tissue paper for a total of 10 sheets. The light is now a lovely, soft red glow. Not harsh at all.

* *

*Also, today I hung a fleece sweater over the back of the strobe and tested it. The clicking sound is muted by about 50%. Should be much more tolerable now, I'll find out tonight...
*

*More Success - * *

*This morning I had another LD! That's 2 in 2 days, a new record for me. This one was more lucid and longer lasting, loads of fun! However, it happened between strobe flashes, I simply recognized I was dreaming from some funny cues (everything I read around me had \"LD\" or \"L/D\" on it and I finally got the message).

*So this is twice in 2 days I went lucid but not from the strobe. My guess is, either my other efforts are paying off (dream journal, affirmations, MILD, etc), or somehow the Strobe is training me to be more aware in my dreams because it's been waking me up briefly a few times every night and reminding me I'm trying to go lucid. Maybe it's both, but I feel pretty sure the strobe is helping somehow, even if it's not the way it's supposed to.

*The Experiment Hits a Wall -

*Ok after 10 days, I have some preliminary observations, both good and bad:

*The Good - It's been well worth the $42 in expenses, I've had 2 lucids in less than 2 weeks and I seem to be increasing my LD frequency dramatically.

*The Bad * - After 10 days, I haven't had one lucid dream initiated by the strobe light. Almost every night, at least once I recognize the flashing in my dreams and become lucid, but after a few seconds it wakes me up. I can't seem to stay asleep and dreaming long enough for the flashing to stop (1 minute). *

*The Wall - I'm convinced the strobe light could help me go lucid almost every night, maybe more than once, if only I could program it to turn on and off within about 3 seconds (long enough to go lucid, but brief enough to stay alseep and keep dreaming). The problem is, I have no idea how to (cheaply) program the strobe light for 3 second intervals, several times a night. Every commercial outlet timer I've seen has a 1 minute minimum interval setting, and I'm technically inept.

*Summary: This experiment was intended to determine whether I could recognize an external light source while I'm dreaming and use it to trigger lucidity in my dreams. In that regard, it's a total success, works about 90% of the time. Sadly, I just don't know how to stay in the dream while the flashing goes on for a full minute.

* *

*At least it seems to be helping me become lucid naturally in between scheduled flashes, so it's still a big help overall.

*I think there's a slim chance that I can keep reducing the brightness with more sheets of colored paper until it's just bright enough to make me lucid, but soft enough not to wake me up or wipe out my dreamscape. This may mean I'll notice it less often, but it might help me go straight into an LD once in awhile...
*

*Well, that's all for now, except of course, if anyone reading this knows (or knows someone who knows) how I can cheaply program the Strobe Light for 3 second intervals, without needing a degree in electronics, please, please, please post it here.

* *

*I would be forever grateful... * *

I have a Grainger’s catalog and it has all kinds of timers in it. You just have to specify the voltage and amp load basically and what function. You can have on when power applied and off at a preset limit. Most digital controls are calibrated by the seconds. You may have to solder a few connections to get it connected, but not high tech stuff.

Thanks for your advice guys.

Bricnic - sorry I should have read your previous post more carefully.

The 3 non strobe-light idea does sound like it would be both quiet and effective. Although I think the cost might be an issue. The timers I am using are $20 a piece. They do make a fairly loud click at each on/off cycle, but I simply attach them to extension cords, place them in a box, and cover it with a thick blanket. Haven't heard them since.

Although it took some time to work out the bugs, I'm happy to say both the light and noise issues are pretty much solved. At this point, I just need to get back to a normal sleep schedule in order to test the new set up properly.

dreamtamer - Thanks for the tip. The 2 timer system Luck27 suggested (plugging one timer into another and setting the cycles a few seconds apart) has been working perfectly so far. But I'm definitely going to check out that catalog. After all, there's always room for improvement!