Need a boost? Try the brand new S-DILD/S-WILD methods!

How many times have you failed a DILD/WILD? I know the feeling. You set your alarm for a WBTB. Drag yourself out of bed in the middle of the night. Prepare for your DILD/WILD with all the tips from every tutorial. But when the moment of truth comes, you forget all your lucid goals and slip back into dreamless sleep. Only to wake up hours later to find out you had failed.

Does this sound like you? I'm sure it sounds like everyone. Because we all know, lucid dreaming is about motivation. Sure, if you're ready to dedicate your life to the cause then maybe you'll get up some consistency, but for everyone else it's going to be an upward battle. But admittedly there are some shortcuts.

I first noticed this a long time ago, the night before my SAT exam. I was so stressed it took me over an hour to fall asleep. When I did finally sleep, I would keep waking up in the middle of the night very energized. Despite this, or perhaps because of it, I had some of the most realistic and vivid dreams I've ever had. Before my AP exam, the same thing happened. It wasn't just tests either. When I slept, over friends houses, when I got a new mattress, when I was sick. Everything that disturbed my natural sleep rhythm, made me dream more. As I soon found out, contrary to common belief, we don't dream when we're most asleep, we dream when we're most awake!

It's a bit of a catch-22. To dream we have to be asleep, to sleep we have to be tired, but to be tired is to not dream. On top of this, the times that we dream best (before a big test) are also the times we least want to. So the question becomes, how do we "stay awake" while being asleep and how do we do it consistently? Although I've known this for some time, it wasn't until recently that I put together a concrete method.

Introducing, S-Sleeping:
S-DILD: Stimulated-Dream-Induced-Lucid-Dream
S-WILD: Stimulated-Wake-Induced-Lucid-Dream

S-Sleeping is not a method in it of itself. It is combined with other methods. Essentially, S-Sleeping is made up of two parts stimulating yourself, and breaking your sleep rhythm. Other than that, nothing in this method is hard and fast. Nothing works for everyone but I can only tell you what worked for me. With a little creativity, I'm sure you can find your own adaptation.

Here is how I did it. I went to bed at 11:00pm and woke up at 5:00am (broke my sleep rhythm). 6 hours I've found is the optimal time for a WBTB. Immediately after I woke up I drank an entire AMP Energy Lightning. That's 58g sugar, 160mg caffeine. As you'd expect It woke me up immediately (stimulated myself). To boost my odds I moved my blankets and pillows to the floor (broke my sleep rhythm). After being awake for nearly 30 minutes. I slept on the floor.

Many people might want to choose their favorite lucid attaining method for this part. I generally just use the good old DILD (reality checking, dream signs, etc.). But WILD works equally well.

As you can imagine (with 160mg of caffeine coursing through my system) it wasn't easy to fall back asleep (that's the point). I always do this hilarious thing where as soon as I'm about to fall asleep, my brain jerks me awake (no doubt some sort of fight/flight response). At first I thought this was bad but I soon realized it's perfect. Eventually after shooting awake and falling asleep enough times. I shot awake, straight into a lucid dream!

The first time it didn't last long (but I did have an exceptionally vivid regular dream). But the second and third times I had fully lucid dreams. The method worked spectacularly. On the second try! I'm no lucid expert. Prior, a lucid dream once a month for me was typical. Three times in one week was unheard of.

I'd love to answer any questions you have, or expand on anything you'd like to know more about. If you decide to try this method (or have been doing it already) I would love to hear the results.

Note: I understand that caffeine is an addictive substance. However, I plan to use it only occasionally and eventually wean myself off of it. I would not consider it principle to the S-Sleeping method but it is certainly the best way to get started. 160mg is only about half a medium Starbucks coffee.

I like it

wow, very perceptive

i always seemed to have the most vivid and frequent dreams while i was sick because i kept waking up and falling back asleep.

I'm going to try this, but do you think that i could instead wake myself up with an alarm, and do some push ups and then try and go back to sleep like that? xD

also i noticed i had VERY vivid dreams whenever i got woken up in the morning and i went back to sleep

this is a sick technique....... i dont have coffee tho, what other alternatives are there?

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Originally Posted by thatkoreanguy

wow, very perceptive

i always seemed to have the most vivid and frequent dreams while i was sick because i kept waking up and falling back asleep.

I'm going to try this, but do you think that i could instead wake myself up with an alarm, and do some push ups and then try and go back to sleep like that? xD

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i think you need to make your mind active but keep your body tired, if you do push ups you would more than likely fall asleep but if you sat and done a cross word (or enery drinks) it stimulates the mind, remember a WILD is tricking the body into thinking your asleep (causing SP) but keeping your mind alert!

IMO

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Originally Posted by thatkoreanguy

wow, very perceptive

i always seemed to have the most vivid and frequent dreams while i was sick because i kept waking up and falling back asleep.

I'm going to try this, but do you think that i could instead wake myself up with an alarm, and do some push ups and then try and go back to sleep like that? xD

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Yeah push-ups would work, so would a short run. I wouldn't do anything difficult though. If you tire yourself out it'll have the opposite effect.

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Originally Posted by gameoverlord345

this is a sick technique....... i dont have coffee tho, what other alternatives are there?

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If you're looking for caffeine, there's energy drinks, tea, and regular caffeine pills (although you might want to watch those).

If you want to stay away from caffeine (or have none handy) you'll have to get more sleep beforehand. Simply eating/drinking non caffeinated substances will help too (keep it light though or digestion will make you tired). You also might want to consider staying up longer. Just don't get too comfortable or it'll make you sleepy again.

Another avenue I'm exploring, although am yet to test. Is constant sleep disruptions. If you set an alarm every 15 minutes or so, it might force your body into a shallower sleep (without caffeine). Thus achieving more constant sleep disruptions and providing more opportunity for dreams.

Glad you found something that works for you. namaste.:shadewink:

Quite an extreme method, probably not very sustainable. But once in a while it may be good, especially for feeling the transitions back to sleep

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Originally Posted by gameoverlord345

this is a sick technique....... i dont have coffee tho, what other alternatives are there?

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cocaine works fine

It sounds like the OP wants to sell his method :D but I'll give it a shot. Thanks for the post Systems

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Originally Posted by Ev

Quite an extreme method, probably not very sustainable. But once in a while it may be good, especially for feeling the transitions back to sleep

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Extreme is exactly the point. After watching lucid research remain largely static overt he last two years, I'd like to contribute something drastic. This is just a small part of what I hope to turn into broader research on the boarder between sleep and wakefulness.

If a 160mg gives me vivid dreams and decent lucids, what about 300mg? Singular doses? distributed doses? Frequent sleep disruptions? Blatant? Subliminal? What is the upper limit to dream stability? Can I do this constantly? Perpetually?

Soon I hope to find out. Look out for some future posts of mine in the research section.

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Originally Posted by Jay12341235

cocaine works fine

It sounds like the OP wants to sell his method :D but I'll give it a shot. Thanks for the post Systems

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Not that I'd ever try it... But I'm sure the results of more "powerful" stimulants would be awful interesting... In case anyone is willing share ;)

Wow, sounds like a very interesting method!!
What would be some alternatives to:

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I moved my blankets and pillows to the floor (broke my sleep rhythm). After being awake for nearly 30 minutes. I slept on the floor.

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Coz I dunno if I want my mum to come in or something and be like. "wtf?" Lol..
But sounds like it might work. If you give me an alternative to that, I'll give you my results.

If you cant sleep on the floor try sitting upright in a recliner chair with a pillow on your neck and lower back making your field of vision forwards instead of upwards sidways or downwards.
http://www.wackystock.com/details/51...wackystock.jpg

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Originally Posted by NightSpy2

Wow, sounds like a very interesting method!!
What would be some alternatives to:
Coz I dunno if I want my mum to come in or something and be like. "wtf?" Lol..
But sounds like it might work. If you give me an alternative to that, I'll give you my results.

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Hmm interesting.

Though you have to be careful. Caffeine will act as a rem-suppressant. Thus you have no dreams.

1)Well,

Hm..really intresting thread. A month ago, i thought about waking up 5-6hours after i sleep , drink half glass of coffee, and go back to sleep immideately, but i never did.
Changing your sleeping rythm in my opinion doesnt help too much. I mean i believe from what you said up there, cafeine is doing the most. But i'm not sure.

"contrary to common belief, we don't dream when we're most asleep, we dream when we're most awake!" <--- i believe what you wanted to say was that the common belief was that we dream when we're most asleep and that's partially true. The common belief is that the deeper you sleep, the "deeper" you dream, meaning you are more clueless , more idiot , more unaware of whats going on. On the other hand, reverting what i just said, the less deep we sleep, the less "deep" we dream, meaning you are more aware and this is where lucid dreams strike ( which i believe is what you wanted to say on your 2nd sentence) xD

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Originally Posted by Rock4Dreams

1)"contrary to common belief, we don't dream when we're most asleep, we dream when we're most awake!" <--- i believe what you wanted to say was that the common belief was that we dream when we're most asleep and that's partially true. The common belief is that the deeper you sleep, the "deeper" you dream, meaning you are more clueless , more idiot , more unaware of whats going on. On the other hand, reverting what i just said, the less deep we sleep, the less "deep" we dream, meaning you are more aware and this is where lucid dreams strike ( which i believe is what you wanted to say on your 2nd sentence) xD

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Yeah that's what I meant. However I think it applies to all dreaming, not just lucids. The deeper you sleep the less conscious you are, meaning less vividity, less cohesion, and often no dreams at all. It's when your closest to being awake that your dreams are most vivid, realistic, and sometimes lucid. In short, the shallower the sleep the deeper the dream. This is nothing new, EEGS have proven this, it's just commonly unknown.

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Originally Posted by dakotahnok

Hmm interesting.

Though you have to be careful. Caffeine will act as a rem-suppressant. Thus you have no dreams.

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I haven't heard that. It's obviously a sleep suppressant but as I've stated that can actually aid dreaming. Can you cite a source?

So, would it be possible to use something like anxiety instead of caffeine? I ran out of coffee yesterday. By anxiety, I mean, can I make myself anxious before bed to keep myself awake?

I drink a dr.pepper or two before i go to bed EVERY night and i usually wake up, whether due to the caffiene or the need to pee, around 3 to 4 am. When i am finally able to fall back asleep i 80% of the time have a very vivid dream. out of those dreams i will become lucid about 50% of the time so this seems like a very good method to me. I think ill try it your way tonight though and see if its better than my way.

btw, it's great that you have so much willpower and finding a method that is working for you!

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Originally Posted by SystemsLock

I haven't heard that. It's obviously a sleep suppressant but as I've stated that can actually aid dreaming. Can you cite a source?

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Let me check around tommrrow.

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Originally Posted by Sorox

So, would it be possible to use something like anxiety instead of caffeine? I ran out of coffee yesterday. By anxiety, I mean, can I make myself anxious before bed to keep myself awake?

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if that works then i'll have to try that because sometimes when i think about having panic attacks, i have mild ones.

I imagine you are referring to a hypnic jerk when you say you jolt awake before sleep. For a little clarification, this is normal occurrence in almost everyone. For me it usually goes down like this: almost falling alseep, thinking/visualizing something random when I suddenly miss a step on some stairs, fall of a curb, fall in a hole, etc. There are two main theory about why this happens: the first being that when you sleep your breathing slows down as well as blood circulation. This feeling also accompanies falling, and your brain tries to make sense of it. The second being that your brain wants to test you to see if you are sleeping. Just some knowledge for everyone....

well last night i got sick about 30 min before i went to bed so with my constant waking up due to nausea and pain i was lucid dreaming anyway so i couldnt test this method. The good thing is though that i had like 3 vivid lucid dreams last night :D. then i wake up this morning and puke:?

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Originally Posted by LonelyTurtle

I imagine you are referring to a hypnic jerk when you say you jolt awake before sleep. For a little clarification, this is normal occurrence in almost everyone. For me it usually goes down like this: almost falling alseep, thinking/visualizing something random when I suddenly miss a step on some stairs, fall of a curb, fall in a hole, etc. There are two main theory about why this happens: the first being that when you sleep your breathing slows down as well as blood circulation. This feeling also accompanies falling, and your brain tries to make sense of it. The second being that your brain wants to test you to see if you are sleeping. Just some knowledge for everyone....

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Thank you!!! I've always been annoyed at that and wondered why that happens!!
:)

This is quite interesting, and I like it. How much coffee though would be equivalent to 160-200mg of caffeine?

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Originally Posted by RawringNinja

This is quite interesting, and I like it. How much coffee though would be equivalent to 160-200mg of caffeine?

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Depends heavily on the type. A good estimate is 100mg for a small cup. But it could be easily twice or half that. You can look up the tables for Starbucks online.

Very interesting idea. I'm out of soda and won't drop unnecessary cash on energy drinks. How do you think it would work with Green Tea? known to help with dreams and full of caffeine -- and I pump it with sugar.

and have you experimented with the effects of using computers in this time frame?

http://i1131.photobucket.com/albums/...k/07b8e7c1.png

Stimulants. Dextroamphetamine and pemoline, which enhance catecholamine and dopaminergic activity, increase sleep latency, decrease total sleep time, and greatly reduce REM sleep. The REM sleep reduction effect is due to increased wakefulness, in contrast to drugs which primarily alter noradrenergic or serotonergic activity, in which REM sleep reduction occurs regardless of changes in total sleep or wakefulness. Wakefulness can also be increased by the beta-carbolines, which bind to the benzodiazepine recognition site but which have opposite effects, and hence are considered "inverse agonists."

Wakefulness as in; the person is still asleep but have the brainwaves as of they are awake.


Edit: Oh shit I forgot to link to where I got the info. Oh well just do a quick search on "caffeine rem suppressant" and it should come up.

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Originally Posted by dakotahnok

http://i1131.photobucket.com/albums/...k/07b8e7c1.png

Stimulants. Dextroamphetamine and pemoline, which enhance catecholamine and dopaminergic activity, increase sleep latency, decrease total sleep time, and greatly reduce REM sleep. The REM sleep reduction effect is due to increased wakefulness, in contrast to drugs which primarily alter noradrenergic or serotonergic activity, in which REM sleep reduction occurs regardless of changes in total sleep or wakefulness. Wakefulness can also be increased by the beta-carbolines, which bind to the benzodiazepine recognition site but which have opposite effects, and hence are considered "inverse agonists."

Wakefulness as in; the person is still asleep but have the brainwaves as of they are awake.

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So are you saying this helps or hinders?

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Originally Posted by jarrhead

So are you saying this helps or hinders?

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In my honest opinion I think it hinders you badly.

I'm wondering wouldn't it be hard to fall asleep again after drinking some energy drink or coffee?

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Originally Posted by Saurfang

I'm wondering wouldn't it be hard to fall asleep again after drinking some energy drink or coffee?

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If you read the thread he said that.

It sounds good, but the caffeine thing is putting me off.. I don't like the thought of taking loads of caffeine. I might test out some more natural methods, like exercise, maths, water.. I usually wake up pretty quickly anyway, so i'll see what happens :)

I have noticed this and I actually have a method you can use without downing loads of caffeine. Here's what I do. First I try to fall asleep normally and right when I'm about to fall asleep if I realize it in time I just wake myself back up. I do this as many times as I can until I fall asleep. When I wake up again I just repeat. I got four lucid dreams the first night I did this and got two the next time, so needless to say it works for me.

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Originally Posted by Yosma

I have noticed this and I actually have a method you can use without downing loads of caffeine. Here's what I do. First I try to fall asleep normally and right when I'm about to fall asleep if I realize it in time I just wake myself back up. I do this as many times as I can until I fall asleep. When I wake up again I just repeat. I got four lucid dreams the first night I did this and got two the next time, so needless to say it works for me.

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Lucky! Good thing it works for you!
How long does it usually take you to fall asleep though?

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Originally Posted by NightSpy2

Lucky! Good thing it works for you!
How long does it usually take you to fall asleep though?

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it tends to take me like 45-60 mins to fall asleep the first time, but after I wake myself up the time decreases dramatically to somewhere between 5-10 minutes.

It seems like I would lose a lot of sleep and feel tired throughout the day with this method--much more than WBTB.

It's possible caffeine reduces REM but I think it also depends on the context.

Remember, I'm taking this caffeine immediately before I return to sleep, after I've already slept over 5 hours, putting me right before my optimal REM period. If the caffeine was taken before any sleep (like the charts you supplied) most of it would wear off by 5 hours, before most REM was even suppose to occur. It's possible the resulting caffeine hangover may suppress REM after that 5 hours, when the majority of REM is suppose to be taking place. Thus explaining the discrepancy. Even if caffeine is a direct REM suppressant, I doubt it is due to it's energy increasing effects, but rather due to some side effect.

However I have nothing but personal experience to back this up.

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Originally Posted by SystemsLock

Not that I'd ever try it... But I'm sure the results of more "powerful" stimulants would be awful interesting... In case anyone is willing share ;)

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Ya, you'll be up all night begging for sleep as your heart pumps so loud you can hear it outside of your body. You'll finally crash at 7 in the morning, wake up 4 hours later feeling like absolute shit, with only one thing on your mind... not dreams. Repeat.