Only LEGAL and Potent Drug I Know to Induce LD / OBE

[Jade010]

Hello, I'm sure there are some of you who have used this "Drug," but I wanted to post about it because I've seen quite a few posts lately about trying to induce LD/OBE with drugs that are sometimes difficult for all people to obtain. Even the one I'm posting about is not available to all countries...but many. It's called Salvia Divinorum - an extraordinary visionary herb. It is not a recreational drug. It produces a profoundly introspective state of awareness that is useful for meditation, contemplation, and self-reflection. Please be SURE you read the ENTIRE guide at the link below before EVER taking this drug. http://sagewisdom.org/usersguide.html ~Deja

[irishcream]

Hmm...i've read it, and I'm very, very skeptical...i'm not sure... The states that it lists that you can get into, i can get into without the use of any form of drug. It's definitely legal? Would be interesting to see if it's in my garden centre, I'd probably grow it just as a plant, because i like plants. Still sounds like pot to me... It will be interesting to see what others say...

[Dangeruss]

It definitely works, I've tried it. Only thing that bothers me is the cost.

[irishcream]

hmm...so how much is the plant? I've seen pictures, its got nice flowers... (sorry, i'm a plant nut)

[Seeker]

Folks, I [b]REALLY don't like the idea of suggesting drug usage on DreamViews. Everything you need to LD or even OBE is within youself. Attempting to accomplish this by chemical means is doing a serious disservice to yourself, not to mention endangering your health.

[Awhislyle]

Isnt that what they sell in stoner stores as a marijuana replacement?

[Dangeruss]

yep. its a 20-minute trip though, really really different from marijuana. Seeker's totally right tho, you don't need any of that stuff to ld.

[Classico]

As into psychoactive drugs as I am, I have never had a sucessful experience with Salvia D. And even to the point where i've become skeptical. Erowid lists the effects as such: POSITIVE * short duration (when smoked) * radical perspective shifting * increase in sensual and aesthetic appreciation * creative dreamlike experience * insight into personal issues NEUTRAL * powerful open and closed eye visuals * general change in consciousness (as with most psychoactives) * altered perceptions * change in body temperature (?) * sensation of physical push, pressure, or wind * sensation of entering or perceiving other dimensions, alternate realities * feeling of 'presence' or entity contact * dissociation at high doses, walking or standing NEGATIVE * overly-intense experiences * fear, terror and panic * increased perspiration * possible difficulty integrating experiences It definitely works, I've tried it. Only thing that bothers me is the cost. [/b] Now Erowid has always been the best resource of drug information for me atleast. So seeking a legal alternative to drugs such as DMT, Ayahuasca (<A PITA to use correctly, though worthwhile), ASD, LSD (25, and 52), and Dextromethorphan (<Legal but shaky at best), I discovered Salvi D. Seeing as I can't justify why so many people would be lying, I tend to think my source ripped me off- odd as they had been a very reliable legal source. So Dangeruss and anyone else, if I may ask- where did you obtain it? It might be better for the sake of the forum if it were PM'd, but that is at everyones discretion. Thanks.

[Dangeruss]

I got it at my local head shop. Make sure you're using the fortified extract and not the straight leaves. Being low-sensitivity, I need at least 15X to trip. Using it: Jet lighter, bong. The idea is to get the biggest hit you can, because that's all you have time for. Trips can start in the middle of the second hit or before, and if you got enough then it'll be VERY hard to smoke more until you come down a bit... then it's too late. The jet lighter can burn up a huge bowl really fast, and a bong can help with getting a maximum hit. The smoke is cooler and less offensive than tobacco or cannabis smoke, so I didn't have much trouble holding it in. Coughing it out after holding it in also helps. The smoke also smells like fish, so some people might be a little repulsed from the exhale taste and not feel like taking another hit (especially if the feeling comes as you're thinking about how bad it tastes) I got a weird feeling, like my skin was crawling. Environments kind of shift and form shapes that weren't there before... I was in a forest once and I saw a train on the top of a hill, both made of the general colors of the forest. The effect on my thought was indescribable... it's like I was thinking in colors, and emotions were prickly feelings on my arm. Yes, weird. It's a really intense experience, possibly negative for an inexperienced drug person. I do it on rare occasion for spiritual purposes, but like in a dream, it's hard to bring lucid goals into a salvia trip. It kind of grabs you by the balls sometimes and won't let you decide what to do with the trip. So, getting anything out of it requires that you do it a few times and really get a feel for what that salvia thought process is like, and that can be expensive.

[Classico]

I had two vials of 20x, both of them yielded no results- However I used a petrol lighter. Fast forward a day- I'm at my friends house in the boons, he had a butane lighter and a nice bong- we were using straight ground leaves though. No one felt anything, the smoke was as horrid to the mouth/lungs as is Ayahuasca. Not like fish at all. I suppose I'll have to find another source online or a headshop, never been in a headshop but I know of a few. Thanks.

[evolo]

I've had a lot of experiences with this drug. Many of them were when my mind wasn't mature enough to handle it. It scares the shit out of me now. Please use caution if you're willing to try this. It didn't affect my dreams at all. Lucidity comes from your own mind, not a plant or chemical.

[Tsen]

Really guys, listen to Seeker. Drugs aren't the answer if you want lucidity. You don't need them, and smoke inhalation in any form is HORRIBLE for your lungs. Not to mention the smell is absolutely disgusting. If you want to get quick lucidity at high level of vividity, learn to WILD.

[Rakkantekimusouka]

Seek! Why didn't you close this?

[Jade010]

Hello, Just to clarify, this is a flowering herb and not an illicit drug. It is used for many purposes besides visual stimulation. It is not intended to be smoked. Before judging it, please read an unbiased explanation at Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvia_divinorum ~Deja

[Tsen]

The legality is completely unrelated to the wisdom of using it. EDIT: It also appears that it IS illegal in Australia, and attempts are being made to ban it in America as well. Though the politicians don't appear to know much about the drug, I do agree that it should be banned.

[Jade010]

Originally posted by Tsen The legality is completely unrelated to the wisdom of using it. EDIT: It also appears that it IS illegal in Australia, and attempts are being made to ban it in America as well. Though the politicians don't appear to know much about the drug, I do agree that it should be banned. Hello, I agree with you, Tsen. Legality is completely unrelated to the wisdom of using it. This can be said about many herbs and supplements on the market today. It was never my intention to offend the sensitivites of others. By all means, if this legal herb which has been used for thousands of years is too controversial, please delete the thread. Maybe some would be more comfortable speaking about illegal drugs, such as: Smokin the Reefer: http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20461 Smiles, Deja

[Classico]

Just to note... I didn't try this or any drug to lucidly dream- aside from Calea Z, which I do believe caused more vivid dreaming and recall, it did not however cause me to dream lucidly. Agreed, smoking is terrible on ones lungs, and ideally it would be best if we didn't smoke anything. On another note, those who disagree with using drugs in ANY sense without open minds, should probably not read my following paragraphs. I, decided long long ago not to use drugs solely to get high. The one exception is Marijuana, which I smoke socially with friends that obviously do not mind possibly taking a year off their lives and other risks. I will never and have not ever used any Opiate aside from prescribed CNS depressants I also will never try anything in the amphetamine family, the only exception is Ecstasy which really isin a class all on its own. I have, and will continue using drugs to explore my own conscience- I am no Terrence McKenna, or Timothy Leary. I have however benefited from every drug I have used at one point, and I have suffered from only *one. I wrote a very detailed, emotional (both happy, and sad) personal essays, and short stories of things in general, life, the universe, and everything- and I say that quite litteraly. With MDMA, and later with LSD-25, I understand what God might be, and the possible existance of an afterlife (completely not like mainstream religions). With Dextromethorphan I saw and documented my worst fears as they manifested themselves in real-time. MDMA simply put is very bad for you if used on a binge, or even within weeks/months after using it. MDMA used responsibly causes damage that for the most part is repaired after time. Opiates are extremely addictive, it ruined one of my friends lives- never shows up for school, and spends all his money on Cocaine. Amphetamines just like opiates can and usually do destroy lives. If you have an addictive personallity and know it, DO NOT do drugs, plain and simple. And if you never do them, you won't know if you missed anything. I have two friends in particular worth mentioning, Casey's Father was a coke fiend, and a terrible alcoholic- He has decided to never ever use drugs. Chris, he used to smoke pot, but that was about it- he met a girl (which in retrospect for him is going to be as bad as Meth and Coke combined), and 'sorta' found god through Christianity. I love these two friends to death, but I decided several months ago to never raise the topic of drugs or booze. To them I am as bad as the guy giving head in a restroom for coke money. Despite trying to explain I am labeled, Because the few and the many who drive under the influence of anything kill innocent people, because smoking is bad, label me and everyone who does drugs as murderers- not necessarily of others but of ourselves. Freewill, and the ability to choose is what makes this country great- if they had there way smoking would be illegal, and all drug use would be illegal, and I suppose they are advocates of "Click-it-or-Ticket." It is a curtesy to others not to smoke in front of them, we need not kill them too- its hurts me deeply when we suffer because of one mans stupid mistake.

[jay dawg]

Originally posted by Tsen The legality is completely unrelated to the wisdom of using it. EDIT: It also appears that it IS illegal in Australia, and attempts are being made to ban it in America as well. Though the politicians don't appear to know much about the drug, I do agree that it should be banned. our politicians clearly dont know shit about marijuana yet they bann that. i dont know whats keeping them from banning this as well. you guys need to fuckin lighten up a bit. theyre just plants. drugs are good for attianing a higher level of consciousness and thought. people who dont think so, well, they dont know.

[Classico]

you guys need to fuckin lighten up a bit. theyre just plants. drugs are good for attianing a higher level of consciousness and thought. people who dont think so, well, they dont know.[/b] Swearing, and raising tempers helps nothing- however the point above is clear. Not to be a prick, but please read my post above Jay Dawgs- it can hopefully explain things. Most people, telling us to stop doing drugs because it hurts our bodies evidently believes that some people just don't understand that drug use has a detrimental affect on the mind and body. What they fail to realize is that everyone actually does understand that. So their little show & tell has about the same effect as a vegan standing outside a Sizzler, holding up posters of a slaughterhouse. Sure, it gets a viceral reaction, but nobody's actually learning anything. However the argument that sometimes we in turn affect others, such as second hand smoke- does have a very valid point

[Tsen]

I by no means support any of the drug-related threads on the site. I didn't post on the Smoking the Reefer post, but that doesn't mean I don't have an opinion on it as well. Jay Dawg, I've been through this with you. I don't agree that drugs create a heightened state of mind. Especially Marijuana. And it never ceases to amaze me how fragmented and incomplete your thoughts and reasoning are, despite that 'heightened state of mind'. Also, to DejaSoul, its continued use for thousands of years is a pretty irrelevant argument. About as much so as calling something a 'natural substance'. Yeah, it probably has been used for thousands of years. But so has the many forms of opium. Tobacco as well. These obviously aren't healty, and aren't made so by their long history. Drugs have had a long and controversial history on this forum. Almost since the very beginning. Use the search option in the bar at the top of the page and check through...there's lots of threads on it, and a lot of opposition to the use of drugs. Even from way back when I joined almost two years ago. One recent one, which I referred to earlier in this post, is a long argument with Jay Dawg here. The argument got going when we hit the second page, and it's still going... Enjoy. Cheers, Tsen

[Classico]

Edited: Felt I sounded insolent, not at all what I was trying to do. Not to be satirical- but man, both logical and illogical, biased and unbiased, will have opinions that will likely always disagree. Sometimes as we know, to the ability of justifying murder. I do not deny that all the drugs I have used aside from that one, led to a nice high, that is not at all my reasoning to use them. To me, thats Me, they are worth it. If you cannot understand that I can honestly outweigh the harm they cause with the worthwhile experiences I gain- then you will likely never understand. As I will never understand the constant labeling. Seeing as I do not, and have not harmed ANYONE but myself, may we not agree to disagree? And if no, are you not attempting to grasp other peoples ideals and reasoning? There is fervor among people, and a seemingly complete unwillingness to try and understand the 'other' side of things. I do not really expect one to agree to disagree. Please do not take offence to these comments- I am merely trying to have a fair intellectual discussion. I want to hear your ideas, so maybe I like you, might possibly understand. My ending question is: Why then, can I not be permitted to enjoy myself on my own time, without hurting others?

[kimpossible]

Originally posted by jay dawg . people who dont think so, well, they dont know. Now there is an insightful and well-reasoned argument! Kudos!

[Classico]

I offer my earnest apology for that analogy, To those who read it, took offence, or didn't - please don't let that deter you from reading my posts It was a very abstract and serious analogy, a simpler and less demeaning one could have been created. In most basic terms, I was trying to outline how similiar extremes may be.

[Tsen]

EDITED to remove content referring to the content removed by Classico. Wasn't that a mouthful. Anyway. I can tell you that I don't agree with drug use and don't condone it or its promotion on this website. That is fully within my rights as a user on this forum. It is within your rights to promote its use, or tell of your use, excepting legal issues that might arise if the substance is illegal. Safe to say, nobody will likely care enough to take legal action if you do post about illegal drugs. Because this is an online forum, we have the rights to express our opinions, as well as the reasoning behind them. You have done so, and I honestly find no arguments with your reasoning so long as you do not harm others with your drug use. BUT, I still feel that I must express my opinion to others who might follow your example. Though you have found that drugs are a positive effect on yourself, they often do not have the same effects on others. I've had a great deal of family members who've dabbled a bit too much in drugs, two of whom are now dead because of them. Therefore, I use my right to express my opinion to discourage others from heedlessly running down that path without taking the time to analyze both sides of the argument.

[Classico]

Tsen, I would like to say- I honestly, and wholly agree with you. And you are likely the most intelligent person I have ever had a discussion on these matters with. I will never, promote the use of drugs. And most people, if they tried to follow my example, would wind up on the long road to self-destruction. It is yours, and my right to express an opinion on these boards, I will neither press my beliefs on others as you have not done either. I honestly find no arguments with your reasoning so long as you do not harm others with your drug use. [/b] Totally absolutely agreed, I will never ever intentionally harm another person or animal under the influence, or any stage afterwards. Tobacoo use in public among those non smokers is certainly harmful and I disagree with it more or less. Banning smoke in ALL bars probably isn't the best decision, a equality among non smoking, and smoking is ideal. On a side note, I do not smoke- I am oddly enough, a snuff user- ableit not often. I still feel that I must express my opinion to others who might follow your example. Though you have found that drugs are a positive effect on yourself, they often do not have the same effects on others.[/b] Ofcourse, as do I. Though I feel that I have expressed my opinions enough, my goal having been seeking mainly your own explainations (family death) and reasoning. Therefore, I use my right to express my opinion to discourage others from heedlessly running down that path without taking the time to analyze both sides of the argument.[/b] Gaining knowledge on something so possibly detrimental to ones health is the only logical step to maning an informed decision. I took a risk, I ascertained I did not have an addictive personality- or if I did I would be able to resist and stop immediatly. It is in everyones best interests to not take that initial plunge. I was the 'right type,' the main demographic however is not. Off Topic; Wasn't that a mouthful. Anyway. [/b] A thousand thanks m8.