Thread: Call it My LD Guide.

Okay guys listen, I know I haven't offered much advise on attaining lucidity but I've been trying to figure out what would be one of the best ways for some to achieve it without resulting to some type of drug. I have an Idea but its going to take some sacrifice for those who really has the desire to do so. It's also going to take a little bit of patience.. Okay here we go.

Okay what you're going to have to do is alter your sleep pattern. Over any particular weekend get as least sleep as possible resulting in no more than 3 hours a day. set your alarm clock to constantly wake you up after only 3 hours of sleep, this way it becomes a redundant event that your mind will automatically adjust to. Then if you can do this without the use of an alarm clock after a while, I would sugguest at least 7 days for your body to adjust to the new sleep schedule. Once you're not using your alarm clock to wake yourself up anymore but it becomes habitual to wake after only 3 hours the next step is the hardest. Then try to stay awake for 24 hours. and the following day finally you sleep for what would be really only 3 hours but you will achieve Lucidity. It may not be long at all but you will have at least a second of it. because whats going to happen is that your body is going to want that additional rest. But your mind is set to wake you up in 3 hours after sleep. Your conscious will wake before your body feels the need to wake. Try it out. get back to me on results.

Oh and [b]CAUTION

Have you tried it yourself? Or are you just supposing it would work?

Yea, this sounds like a lot of work that could make someone really angry if it doesn't work.

Are you saying your brain would RE ARANGE its sleep patterns?
Such as, start REM as soon as 2 hours into sleep, instead of 5?

Sounds logical, but your brain would need more than a week to ajust?

Wait REM doesn't start until 5 hours after sleep? I thought it was a 90 min cycle.

Originally posted by Lowercase Society
Are you saying your brain would RE ARANGE its sleep patterns?
Such as, start REM as soon as 2 hours into sleep, instead of 5?

Sounds logical, but your brain would need more than a week to ajust?

Yep Thats exactly what im saying. But everyone is different Some people can adjust in only a couple of days. Some may take at least 2 to 3 weeks.. I was just putting a week out there because to me that could be about average. I never tried this before you guys because I never had to.. But I was just thinking maybe this could work. Do it at your free will.

I don't think sleep deprivation or drugs are really a good way to get lucid dreams.

You should try it when you get the chance, and then we will know that it does work. I don't mean to sound incredulous, it sounds good on paper, but who knows if it works when put into action....

I will kill myself if I'll have to sleep 21 hours a week

Sleep is one of my friends...i almos talk to it sometimes, i crave it so much.

Sorry you guys I wish I could try this out. I can go lucid at will and my dream styles are not in the position to see if it really works. I know sleep is important but this has never been tried before.. So I have no Idea if it would work. I just think that it is good to put every particular option out on the table..

well actually it works yes, i've tried it before. staying up all night long helps as well. does it make you a better lucid dreamer? nope, that comes with practise... but if you are stuck and want to *breakthrough* and have a LD that would be a recommended technique.

interestingly enough I was totally in sync with the first part, getting 3 hours sleep -- as a method for regular LD... but I would have suggested going back to sleep after an hour... i've recently found it works wonders for preserving lucidity the rest of the morning...

sounds very tiring.

someone try it out!

hmm, I'll do it during easter break, and I voluntell RedStar, he'll do it..

Originally posted by Intent+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Intent)</div>

interestingly enough I was totally in sync with the first part, getting 3 hours sleep -- as a method for regular LD... but I would have suggested going back to sleep after an hour... i've recently found it works wonders for preserving lucidity the rest of the morning...[/b]

Im soooo stupid. How the heck did that slip my mind. Your absolutely right Intent. Thats an excellent idea. Thanks for putting that on the table also.

<!--QuoteBegin-urFAVcookie
sounds very tiring.

You're right about that. I hope someone does try it out so we can see how it works.

After reading this whole thing it sounds like a good experiment and i also have a nine day break coming up. So would it matter what you do when your supposed to be sleeping? because i usually sneak out of my house and meet some buddies up. i also have a couple doctor friends on another forum liek this that i will consult alright? -matt

Originally posted by vertical horizon
After reading this whole thing it sounds like a good experiment and i also have a nine day break coming up. So would it matter what you do when your supposed to be sleeping? because i usually sneak out of my house and meet some buddies up. i also have a couple doctor friends on another forum liek this that i will consult alright? -matt

Vertical That sounds like an excellent idea. See what your professional friends opinions are in result to this. Try to get some detail if you can. You know the effects mentally, physically and anything else. Maybe this can hold until we get some feedback from you. Thanks

alright, so i have talked to those people and got varied feedback ill post what they said:

One replied: Recently I spent a week with my new granddaughter. I did "night" duty waking every 2-3 hours to feed her and the lucid dreams were GREAT. So I would say your idea is feasible.
LizLynne

Another:Its seems feasible, although a bit extreme and tough on the physical body as well as mind. I would be cautious not to do this too often, or rely on this method for any great length of time. There are other ways to incubate lucid dreaming.
Laura

dr. curt:
I would agree with Laura. Letting things happen naturally is better than forcing the issue.

Curt

And the one i belive most valid written by a doctor and dream group leader Ed K:
Hi Matthew -
Actually, in my experience, the opposite works better - "oversleeping" rather than undersleeping - and also has some physiological benefits.

Sleeping more, rather than less, in most people increases vividness in dreams, as well as the chances for having lucid dreams.

If I take a nap in the afternoon, and go to bed an hour or more early, my chances for having a lucid dream that night improve markedly, as does dream recall.

Over the years in which I have taught dream groups, I have found that poor recall of dreams usually results from marginal (or not so marginal) chronic sleep deprivation. Our society devalues sleep, and we try to get along with as little as possible - using electric lighting to stay up long after the sun has gone down, drinking coffee or taking other stimulants to compensate for the sleep loss. Most people in our culture only sleep 8 hours or less, whereas if you put people in an environment with no environmental cues as to the time - no clocks, no windows, no sound - they sleep about 10 hours a night. Our ancestors of course probably slept from sundown to sunup, an even longer period than that.

If you want to read in greater detail about this fascinating subject, get hold of a copy of The Sleep Thieves by Dr. Stanley Coren. It has a questionnaire you can use to evaluate your sleep debt if any. Chronic sleep deprivation also has negative health consequences.

On special nights where you want to maximize your dream recall, you might try taking an afternoon nap, or going to bed early. Alternatively, on days where you do not have to go to work the next day, you might try going to bed at your usual time and sleeping as late as you can the next day.

Acute and severe deprivation may produce vivid dreams - if carried on long enough, people will dream while awake - literally seeing dreams on the walls. I've personally conducted experiments similar to that outlined by Matthew, staying up several nights in a row, which had interesting effects on my dreams when I finally did allow myself to sleep, but enough negative physical effects that I would not recommend this to others, unless you seem in a protected retreat somewhere. Even when less severe, sleep deprivation significantly impairs reflexes, memory, and the ability to think. If you decide to try out Matthew's experiment, I recommend that you don't drive or operate heavy machinery after the first day!

Ed

Alright read it over and tell me what you think
I also asked Ed to give me some specfics if someone wanted to carry out this "experiment" Like timing limits and all that good stuff!

-matt

Excellent Feedback. I see where the problem could possibly stand. I guess forcing would be a bad idea. I understand that the more sleep one gets the greater his/her chances are to induce lucidity. I was hoping that once that subject gets the final chance to get some real sleep after weeks of sleep deprivation then maybe the chances of achieving LD would increase dramatically. Thanks all of their opinions were certainlly worth considering. Ed raises some very valid issues. I didn't know the effects of sleep deprivation would lessen your chances of good dream recall. If that is the case then this would not work. Dream recall is essential to achieving Lucidity. I respect that and maybe we shouldn't focuse on this to induce Lucid dreaming based off of more professional opinions that are worth considering for sure. I thank you very much vertical for taking the time out to discuss this with your friends.

whenever i go with such little sleep (as i often do) i find it very very difficult to get lucid or even dreams at all...dream recall is horribly hindered by sleep deprevation...on the other hand oversleeping (as has been stated) = dreams++++ ...its about dream recall really though, and not lucidity...i couldnt help with the lucidity part...problem with the sleep deprevation is the only way you can wake yourself is more sudden or 'violently' and in the course, you forget your dreams, while oversleeping, your mind skims the edge of reality, forcing itself to dive back into the dream world but occasionally reemerging to the physical world, and phasing back out again...kinda a slow progression wake up thing that helps with recall etc.

I have always had sleeping problems where I go 3 or 4 weeks strait with very little sleep..I will lay down ge up lay down get up for hours during the night ofcourse during the day i,m so tired I can pass out easily but now i,m at work.When I try to sleep and I get to the point where I finally feel that dosing off feeling I will instantly get a loud zap or shock coming from my head that jolts me awake with edrenelin not allowing me to sleep for another night.I hate these sleep starts and they only happen to me when i,m sleep deprived.When I do sleep regular I,ll be ok for a couple months until it starts again.During this lack of sleep period I find my dream recall the best because I dream instantly when falling asleep and I keep waking up remembering them.

[quote]Okay guys listen, I know I haven't offered much advise on attaining lucidity but I've been trying to figure out what would be one of the best ways for some to achieve it without resulting to some type of drug. I have an Idea but its going to take some sacrifice for those who really has the desire to do so. It's also going to take a little bit of patience.. Okay here we go.

Okay what you're going to have to do is alter your sleep pattern. Over any particular weekend get as least sleep as possible resulting in no more than 3 hours a day. set your alarm clock to constantly wake you up after only 3 hours of sleep, this way it becomes a redundant event that your mind will automatically adjust to. Then if you can do this without the use of an alarm clock after a while, I would sugguest at least 7 days for your body to adjust to the new sleep schedule. Once you're not using your alarm clock to wake yourself up anymore but it becomes habitual to wake after only 3 hours the next step is the hardest. Then try to stay awake for 24 hours. and the following day finally you sleep for what would be really only 3 hours but you will achieve Lucidity. It may not be long at all but you will have at least a second of it. because whats going to happen is that your body is going to want that additional rest. But your mind is set to wake you up in 3 hours after sleep. Your conscious will wake before your body feels the need to wake. Try it out. get back to me on results.

Oh and [b]CAUTION

Sorry for bumping a old thread, but I think I have something meaningful to say.

On topic:

I remember what happened to me a long time ago, when I didn't sleep as much as my body expected.
I was on a LAN party, and people usually don't want to sleep much on LAN parties.
I had stayed awake one night and was tired, but I still wanted to stay up the next night too, because I was going to play a multiplayer game.

During the night, I was getting more and more tired. Finally, I came to the time where my eyes automatically closed, and I had some kind of dreaming. I was fully aware what was going on, and I didn't wanted to fall asleep at all.
The result was that I dreamed on a strange way when I sat in a chair, too tired to open my eyes, even I wanted to be awake again and continue the multiplayer game.
I had not heard about lucid dreaming at the time, so I didn't try to control my dreams or anything.
So if I could have been able to control my dreams, I don't know.

I remember the dreaming was a little different than usual; it wasn't so vivid as my dreams usually are after I have been sleeping for about 6 hours.

When that is said, I don't really think I want to challenge my need for sleep as much as that again.
I was really tired the days after, even I was sleeping 9 hours a day. (I usually sleep 7 hours, and that is enough for me).

Anyway, thanks for sharing your knowledge, and I hope my post was meaningful.

I was just rememberting this thread a couple days ago, and I think I might give it a try. I have never spent a night without sleep, I always sleep at least 2 hours. I think I might give it a try to see how it feels to not sleep in one night, and to see if this theory of Shadow actually works...

Originally posted by Truthbearer
I was just rememberting this thread a couple days ago, and I think I might give it a try. I have never spent a night without sleep, I always sleep at least 2 hours. I think I might give it a try to see how it feels to not sleep in one night, and to see if this theory of Shadow actually works...

OK.
You can be really tired of this, so it is best to avoid sleeping a night when you have free at least one day after.

Originally posted by Human
You can be really tired of this, so it is best to avoid sleeping a night when you have free at least one day after.

Yep Truthbearer I agree with Human, just make sure you have enough time to rest up at least a couple of days after you decide to stay up for 24 hours. I just put it here because my lucidity increases ususally when Im lacking a significant amount of sleep, its always been 100% accurate for me. I was gauranteed a Lucid dream after staying awake for more than 24 hrs. Good Luck And let me know how it works for ya!

Oh and very interesting story Human thanks for that input, it really shows a good amount of truth to this theory I have about aquiring Lucid dreaming.