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Hi, I've been trying to achieve lucidity in a dream for a while now without success. I was wondering has anyone been able to achieve a WILD without having 5-6 hours sleep first. I think I was close to entering it on a few occasions but never sucessful.
Thanks.
i tried this technique for quite some time and had no success
This is pretty much the only technique I've been working on, except for DILD. I too have come close without 5-6 hours of sleep beforehand, but have never been successful. I have tried several times after sleeping 5-6 hours, but I always fall asleep before anything happens.
Hmm... From what I know of the sleep cycle, it is almost impossible to have a WILD at the beginning of the night since the first REM period doesn't come until up to an hour after you've fallen asleep - but as the night progresses the REMs get longer and occur much more frequently so that if you wake after 5-6 hours you will fall asleep and a REM period will be almost immediate, making it possible for you to try a WILD
But I too have found this tricky since being so tired after waking up I find it hard to focus when falling back to sleep
Have you tried napping? I find my WILD attempts are most successful when I take afternoon naps - and if you're not tired enough to take a nap, do some exercise followed by a relaxation technique and you will be :) REMs are also immediate and long after falling asleep for a nap, and chances are you will find it easier to focus since your mind won't be as hazy as it is in the middle of the night during the biological sleep cycle.
I don't understand this concept, how is taking a nap and doing a WILD any different from doing one first thing before you have 5-6 hours of sleep at night?
Or do you mean, take a nap then wake up then Do WILD while taking a second nap?
When you take a nap you will almost immeadetely fall into a REM cycle, because you will have had most of the non REM sleep needed from the night before (I think).Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_Peace
yeah I guess it's the ''wellrestedness'' that can be the Perfect state of Mind to do a WILD.Quote:
Originally Posted by goku4ever
The way I see it; The Non REM-sleep is needed for the Body to rest and the REMsleep, teh Dreaming sleep, is needed to let the Mind relax. Kind of like Playtime for kids on school. To let your Mind run wild and release it's tention, joy, sorrow and malcontent..etc Emotions in dreamscenarios. So I guess if you take a Nap during Daytime your Body will be well rested from the Biological sleep allready had and your Mind will be more aware and awake too. Therefor Naps could be Waking Dreams prime time. Especially when you have alot on your Mind ( be it worries, joy, sadness, doubt, stress, fear or Anger...etc All these strong emotions ) I guess you skip non REM-sleep due to a lack of rest needed for the body and thus you fall into a Dreaming, mental Sleepphase much faster.
hmmmmm interesting. Maybe an afternoon nap is what I need to get my WILD flowing. I have been trying to WILD for a while and all that has happened for me so far is that my body feels very numb and tingly and either I concentrate really well and do not fall asleep for hours or i let my mind wander and I fall unconscious.
the numb tingly feeling is good - that means you're starting to go into sleep paralysis. The trick is to focus just enough to maintain awareness, but not so much that you stay awake
There are some very good WILD tutorials on this site that have many tips on getting that tricky balance and also tell you what kind of sensations to expect when you're doing it right.
Taking an afternoon nap is when its natural for people to take a nap because a long time ago humans took them to get out of the heat and thats why some tropical tribe people take them.
It's because you insta enter REM.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_Peace
Anyway, I've tried it on occassion. I can say it doesn't really work well in practice - I've laid there for over 1.5 hour multiple times without result. Though you should try getting in contact with Gawain (forum member), he WILDs with success without sleeping 4-6 hours first. :)
You have all said very interesting things. Thanks for the advise. :)
Well with me
Night time - never been successful
Nap time/Mid day - been close, but, never successful. The HI was more heavy then during the night time, and I did have some pre-SP/LD symtoms before like seeing through my eyelids. But I always seem to shudder during this time. I think my HI gets so intense that I think I'm there, try to move like I would in a regular dream, and the lack of SP activating causes my entire body to shudder and wake me up completely.
I had a beautiful experience last night. I was trying to WILD before going to sleep and I just let my mind wander a bit, I then focused on my breathing but I was still relaxed so that my mind could wander some more. Then suddenly when I wasn't paying attention my body hit a wall of pure numb happiness. Everything went numb but like never before. I started to feel that my body was in SP but not fully, I also felt as though I were inside my head, but again not fully. The sounds of the road outside started to seem very distant. I got my heart rate to go down and relaxed. But I was just in a Black Void, nothing was happening. After a While I tried to think of a dream scene but nothing happened. I don't think I was fully in SP but I was damn close. I decided to move after a bit just incase I was already dreaming and I didn't realise it. So I opened my eyes and tired to move my arms. They felt very very heavy and this took some effot. I did a RC but alas, I was not dreaming. It was a good thing however as it showed me what to do next time, and what not to do. It was so relaxing to feel SP, my body was sort of rigid and it felt weird, also my saliva was pouring out of my open mouth hahahah. But as I relaxed and calmed down It felt great to be like that. I love that feeling.!
Anywhooo, I am getting closer and closer. I am feeling very positive about all this now. :)
man, I didn't even get close to SP last night and I tried before sleep and after 4 hours. I was falling unconscious too easily and had no focus. Maybe that means that I simply need more sleep. I do see from time to time posts saying that you must be well rested before attemping a WILD so that you can consentrate without falling unconscious but I never heeded the message before. hmmmmm interesting street.
Tom, that reminds me of an experience I had a few days ago. I was taking an afternoon nap because I was tired and figured it would be a good opportunity to try a WILD. I got really relaxed and after a while felt my body get really numb. Like your experience, it was numb unlike its ever been before. Unfortunately, my brother started a load of laundry and it sort of snapped my concentration. Anyway, it was really cool!
ahhh cool, man. I tried last night to get that feeling back but nothing happened at all. I even found it hard just to go to sleep like normal because my heart was beating really hard all night for some reason. I feel a bit lost with all this now. I don't really know what to do. I can't seem to get past feeling a bit numb. Keep tying I guess.
That's great! I've tried WILD without 5-6 hours sleep or a nap first, and I got very close too. I couldn't move my body, or hear any ambient sounds, and I was swinging back and forward. It was awesome. I'm going to try WILD after the 61-point relaxation technique and see how it works. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_Peace
Neko.. uh what is with your sig pic? I sure hope you didn't make that
yourself...
http://www.dreamviews.com/images/ico...ender_Male.gif
+
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/194/sig008rq4.png
As I think someone said before...
BTW that signs the male sign should
you have picked the wrong one lol
Yeah, I'm sort of stuck there too. I can get to the numb stage, but then I'm not sure what to do. My heart doesn't really beat any faster, it just becomes a lot easier for me to notice it. Does it actually beat harder, or am I just more aware of it for some reason??? I'm not sure...Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_Peace
Thats where I get stuck too (if even I get that far) I don't know what next to do. If I try to think of a dream scape nothing happens?
I usually just fall asleep lol!
First of all, naps and full night sleep are different. I guess there are different kinds of naps, but the ones I'm having have very little REM. I'm trying to keep all my naps at 1.5+ hrs and often I can remember dream barely starting by the time I wake up. So I wouldnt say that naps are "Insta REM".
When you are going to sleep for the entire night your body takes time to prepare for sleep, since you will be sleeping for 8 hrs or so.
There are natural defense mechanisms against accidentally falling asleep - your body must be absolutely sure that you are going to sleep before it starts to release sleep related chemicals. Pretty much think of a caveman hunter who's laying in some bushes waiting for a deer or something to come by. He is laying there *waiting* for that deer, thinking about something to pass some time, etc. So his body doesnt go to sleep, if it would the caveman would die from hunger [insert more evolutionary stuff here if you like]
Now imagine a present day lucid dreamer - he is trying to WILD, so he is laying in bed, *waiting* , *hearing*, *feeling*, anticipating that WILD. Even though he may think he's relaxed and he's going to sleep, his body may actually think that he's hunting for something (in this case it's WILD). By simply noticing that tingling sensation he already added another 10 minutes of wakefullness before he falls asleep. Next time he tosses around or notices some HI and looks at it he adds another 10 min. So it may take a *VERY LONG* time for him to fall asleep because the sleep will be induced by some kind of secondary sleep activation mechanisms that are designed to protect a person against nonsleeping - he will gradually slip into a dream, so there will be no WILD onset.
At the same time it is possible to go to sleep fast, but it requires to totally shut down your thinking for a while - no thoughts, no "to do" lists, no expectations or anything pretty much you are sacrificing all of your awareness for sleep... My roommate does that and he falls asleep in 5 min. He doesnt remember his dreams tho.
So why all these explanations? Because to WILD you have to "sneak" your awareness in your dream - kinda like totally shut down your mental activity but leave a single thought alive. Your awareness if focused on that thought while the body shuts down. This is when you experience the WILD onset, and as soon as it happens the awareness is reestablished.
This isnt easy though, but understanding the process helps a lot. Very often when I try WILD I get caught in the "hunter" model - I look for tingling, weird sensations in my body, HI, etc. And as soon as something like that happens I spring to full awareness and ruin the WILD onset. Only when I conceal my awareness from my body I'm able to enter WILD (Nowadays it happens mostly by accident).
Ev, I replyed to another post that you did and I totally agree with what you are saying. I think you have hit the nail on the head completely, this is exactly why I have not been able to WILD. Man!
Could you please go into a little more detail with one point, what do you mean when you say that you 'totally shut down your mental activity but leave a single thought alive'?
What single thought do you keep alive? I have found that when I try to focus on one thing like counting in my head or a dream picture it serves to keep me just as awake as anything else.
I do however know the feeling of shutting down my thoughts and quickly falling asleep. I very much believe now that for me to WILD I need to fall asleep very quickly (which can be done by anyone) but as you say 'leave a single thought alive'. However I don't know how I can keep ANY thought alive without it stopping me from falling asleep.
Do you have any idea?
I can get pretty deep into relaxation or a trance or whatever, and time goes by quick, but after an hour or so, I try to change positions to go to sleep and I feel really sore.