Thread: What is the point of Lucid Dreaming?

Originally Posted by Kal8

If you want purpose, have a kid.

No.

7 Billion plus people already are on this world and more arriving everyday. Kids are not special. Biology creates them not god and the other life on this planet would thank humans to keep their legs crossed in that regard.

http://www.stopglobalwarming.com

http://www.defenders.org

http://www.stopanimaltesting.org

I could post endless links to organizations that exsist soley to clean up what the over population of humanity has done to this world.

I care more for the other living beings on this planet than I do for some dumb biological function.

Originally Posted by Sortilegio

Would there be a point to this argument?

I'm not saying I know what your beliefs are. But for me, if I didn't believe in any kind of life beyond this one. I would not see the point of anything either. I would see life as a complete waste of time. And I wouldn't even bother spending another day here. But fortunatly for me,. I don't see things that way. And I can see the magic in everything life has to offer. Maybe that's the wrong thing to say, but it's exactly the way I feel.

I have been Lucid dreaming for a lot of years myself, and I don't see how it could ever get boring. I know for me, It will never be anything but pure magic. I'm not far from fourty years old myself, but I guess I'm still a kid at heart. And I probably always will be. I see the imagination as the greatest gift of humanity. And what could be better, than actualy being able to step into your own imagination, and spending some time playing there.

Originally Posted by Caradon

I'm not saying I know what your beliefs are. But for me, if I didn't believe in any kind of life beyond this one. I would not see the point of anything either. I would see life as a complete waste of time. And I wouldn't even bother spending another day here. But fortunatly for me,. I don't see things that way. And I can see the magic in everything life has to offer. Maybe that's the wrong thing to say, but it's exactly the way I feel.

I'm glad someone said that. I wanted to say it but i was afraid someone would think i was preeching or something (by that i dont mean that's how you sounded) dreamship, i dont know if this would help you at all but even in my religion at church and stuff (again i'm not preeching or anything like that! I have no intention of making you believe this) people say that one point in life is happiness. I'm not saying you have to believe it or anything, but maybe that could just be a personal philosophy. that you're here so you might as well make the point of your life be happiness. it always made me feel better about life. just a suggestion

Originally Posted by Caradon

I'm not saying I know what your beliefs are. But for me, if I didn't believe in any kind of life beyond this one. I would not see the point of anything either. I would see life as a complete waste of time. And I wouldn't even bother spending another day here. But fortunatly for me,. I don't see things that way. And I can see the magic in everything life has to offer. Maybe that's the wrong thing to say, but it's exactly the way I feel.

If you are trying to make some evangelical statement based on any agravation you might have because of my signature and thought this might be a nice 'challenge for god, glory' you can keep it to yourself. If it is one thing I hate it is religion and I think it should be banned. One less thing to kill over.

I do see magic in bird's nests and flowers and the beauty of nature NOT in false, made up things like religon. Yet this still does not change the fact that there is reality and the fantasy that you humans build around everything and what I am against is this fantasy and having to suffer for it. This includes the suffering religon causes.

I do not believe in any god or goddess because there is no proof.
And no, before you ask, I am NOT seeking.

'You cannot prove that god exsists you just have to have faith' is bull. It is what you religious people say because you want so much to believe in what you believe you will dumb yourselves down or kill or be killed or lobby congress to stop people from having rights because their bible says so. Even the pope don't have god's phone number. Your religion is just as fake as a movie and based on nothing so your point, if there was one, has no meaning either. http://ffrf.org/

I want everyone to WAKE UP and see the reality of things like how precious NOW is and how precious the other life on this planet is and how WE have to protect it not abuse it for our own selfish pleasure. Something you religious people don't seem to want to do 'don't worship the creation worship god and if god wants things to become exstinct they will' yadayadayada. So, if we were to actually reason this some more what you, some of you not all, are saying is that if it happens god wants it. So, you are saying he approves of his preachers, sp?, molesting kids? Violence? Poverty? Exstinction of species? No Thank You, not something I want to be a part of.

Originally Posted by luv2dream

I'm glad someone said that. I wanted to say it but i was afraid someone would think i was preeching or something (by that i dont mean that's how you sounded) dreamship, i dont know if this would help you at all but even in my religion at church and stuff (again i'm not preeching or anything like that! I have no intention of making you believe this) people say that one point in life is happiness. I'm not saying you have to believe it or anything, but maybe that could just be a personal philosophy. that you're here so you might as well make the point of your life be happiness. it always made me feel better about life. just a suggestion

You sound like a nice person so I will try to be polite. Happiness is what we want but not necessarily, sp?, what we get. I do not think it is a natural state. Not a bad state to strive for but not one that is natural.

And my point in other areas of this thread is that I do not like the falseness of the fantasies people build around reality and then thinking that that is reality. Like god hates certain people so it is all right for 'us' to hate them and do bad things. Or, I am better than you are because my shoes are worth $500.00. Religion is a prime example. It is false. So telling me to get religion is just like telling me to lie to myself and accept those lies as reality just to make things easier. One of the lies of christianity being that I am evil just because I was born and the only way I can be 'saved' is through Jesus. Tell that to my very religious, read the bible everyday, grandma who is dying from altheimerz. Don't see what religion did for her. She still got a dreadful disease. My other grandma died from a cancer brain tumor. Gee, sign me up.

Oh, and before someone says something, I am not against movies or dreams, or a healthy fantasy life or even role playing games. These are fantasies you know are fantasies and that is all right. Fantasy worlds have been my savior. They have made joy in life but that still does not stop me from seeing all the bad stuff and having to be bothered with the fantasies that people build around reality and think are reality.

And let us not try to make things very fine. You know what I am saying.

LOL,my spiritual beliefs have nothing to do with god or religion. I feel the same way when it comes to that kind of thing.

Im just saying how I feel about things. If I really thought there was nothing beyond this life. I would go get a gun and end it right now. because I would not want to waste my time here for nothing. Because just like you say,there would be no point to anything, right? so why bother at all?

Somebody recently called me an athiest, because I don't believe in there religion. I told them the same thing I told you.

sorry if saying how I see things upsets you.
I know I should not have even replied. But oh well, done bun can't be undone

It is all right that you replied. Made me feel good to get all riled up. :-)

But I am an athiest. I do not beleive in god or anything like that. I do have spirituality but it is based on a deep love for this planet and compassion. I guess that is why I am still here because I love nature. And I love yelling at christians, or people who seem to be :-)

What is the title and artist's name of the painting as your avatar? I want to see a larger version.

Ok cool, I get really upset sometimes, when people start preaching at me too. But not as much as I used to, I'm better at ignoring them now.

I'm glad you like my avatar, As for the artist, I'm not really sure right now. I have had the picture on my wall for some time. I must have gotten it out of some fantasy art book, But I can't remember wich one. I'm new to this whole computer thing. I have not had mine for very long at all. Not sure how to post pictures yet.

I must get to sleep now.

Ha. I do it just because it happens.. I don't try to induce them at all. I find the lower quality LD's come from not being tired at all and going to sleep.. I'm not sure what induces the high quality ones in me. They're quite fun, I love how I can feel the wind blowing against my face, and the taste of food.

Oh dear, look, i went through about half of this thread and read as intently as I could, but i'm so eager to respond, that i skipped quite a bit, and so I hope i'm not just going to repeat and so on, so on....

Your question is SO important, becuase you apply it to 'why live'?

Like, what the hell is the point? Eternal wonder...

Look, firstly, I have no idea who you are, and I hear your comments about people taking this lucid dreaming and yoga and 'alternative' methods of lifestyles WAY too seriously. BUT, if it works for them (whatever 'works' means), then let it be so. Although, on the other hand, let's argue and disagree. Conflict IS life. a 1 needs a 0. A mirror image of yourself displays the same, but there;s actually two things occuring. You stare at a blank wall and chances are, you'll reamin rather blank in your reaction because it's just a blank wall. You see 'you' in a mirror and even though every movement you make folows suit, it;s a whole new world as to what's going on within your head when you see 'you'. Next time you take that into account and stare at a blank wall, it's very (supposed), neutrality can take on a whole new meaning and before you know it, your painting that 'blank' canvas with yourself, and a whole new wrold of confusion and creation is born.

Lucid dreams seem to be such 'internal' experiences.

You go in and in and keep diving within, but try to remeber that it's a beautifull thing to look within. then you can 'see' without. For so long i said: LOOK WITHIN TO LOOK WITHOUT. Fuckin hell, I sound like such a preacher, and sometimes, I hate that about me, but I hear your call, and you did call (that's why you posted). Now, perhaps you'll categorize me as one of 'those yoga hippy type people'. Well, to be honest, I don't practise yoga, I eat meat, I get off on porn and curse, but I wil never let anyone have me believe that there is/ was/ or will be, a single person on this planet that is simply 'EVIL' . I'm not religious, I respect those who are, I'm in no positon to suggest how to think/ live...etc...Chances are, a lot of us are somewhat confused as to who, and why and where....Perhaps we're all alone. I juggle that idea so many times, because i'm of the group (group, eh?, what???), that believes in 'particle' existence, ie; that we are all connected somehow. Chaos theory and so on so forth. I'm not a mathematican, not a philsopher, not a doctor, not a prostitute, not a teacher, but maybe I'm all those things. they're just things really.

Peers from all angles so often speak of 'potential'...your parents, your lover/ lovers, your teachers/ professors, priests, musicians, actors, painters..on and on and on and on...Maybe they don't even speak about such; as in 'what is your purpose here?', but good gabblegob, it so often seems that way. So, I think I'm with you in a way...I also wonder. But, here I am babbling my drunken heart to you, whoever you are about how maybe we see things similarily and hence get pissed ( angry, not drunk,..but that too, lol.), and wonder what the hell is the point in all of 'THIS'.

Existentialism is a very modern and valuable if not, more than anything, logical point of deconstructing an idea of what it is to live/ be...Now, I must apologize, because I don't really read much, if at all, but from what I gather (conversations with those who DO read a lot and my adoration and intrigue of films by authors who stem from and indulge in that school of thninking). But, I think it's somewhat dangerous. I'm probably SO wrong here, but what I'm getting at, is this:

If you die, we'll still be here!

From your own, now, when i say 'your', perspective, there's no known telling that we 'will' actually still be here when your 'gone'. As in, there is by strange logic, a chance that everyone you know and every smell you smell and colour that you see, that are nothing other that an emalgamated and highly inventive and complex creation of your own consciousness (fuck, in that case we are all serious artists!lol). Please correct me if i'm wrong (as I aforemtioned, I don't read, so I'm probably poorly informed and undoubtedly unqualified to refference these kind of philosophies, but...)....To a very great degree, your world and 'our' world is as you create it through your being, albeit asllep or awake...In both of those states, your still making decisions that affect you, and you are part of the chain.

Don't take that as some sort of pressure to 'comply'. That's an awfull word, but do you agree with me that as you affect yourself, you affect us too. Just do what you want, you have in you the abiltity to question what and why and in a highly ironic comment, "to heel" with those who judge you for it.

I'm naiive, in that I think EVERYONE is beautifull and worthwhile and have a right to live and be. I see so called 'nasty' people as such more as victims, rather than purpotrators of ill manners and 'evil'. Now, the part of me 'admitting' that I'm naiive is moslty 'bullshit' from my perspective, but unfortunatley a lot of people belive that there actually are people who are simply 'EVIL' in this world.

Has it been a while since you smiled or cried confused happy tears? I hope so, but your not obliged to do so.

I'm Alex, i'm from ireland, i breath oxygen and talk shit. Salutations! If by any chance you somehow by mere coincidence chance upon my tombstone, grafitti it with the following line:

BAN FLAGS!

Originally Posted by dreamship

You sound like a nice person so I will try to be polite. Happiness is what we want but not necessarily, sp?, what we get. I do not think it is a natural state. Not a bad state to strive for but not one that is natural.

And my point in other areas of this thread is that I do not like the falseness of the fantasies people build around reality and then thinking that that is reality. Like god hates certain people so it is all right for 'us' to hate them and do bad things. Or, I am better than you are because my shoes are worth $500.00. Religion is a prime example. It is false. So telling me to get religion is just like telling me to lie to myself and accept those lies as reality just to make things easier. One of the lies of christianity being that I am evil just because I was born and the only way I can be 'saved' is through Jesus. Tell that to my very religious, read the bible everyday, grandma who is dying from altheimerz. Don't see what religion did for her. She still got a dreadful disease. My other grandma died from a cancer brain tumor. Gee, sign me up.

Oh, and before someone says something, I am not against movies or dreams, or a healthy fantasy life or even role playing games. These are fantasies you know are fantasies and that is all right. Fantasy worlds have been my savior. They have made joy in life but that still does not stop me from seeing all the bad stuff and having to be bothered with the fantasies that people build around reality and think are reality.

And let us not try to make things very fine. You know what I am saying.

ok, i'm not going to try to convince you of joining my religion or believing it or anything like that. Its just that you said some things about my religion that are definately NOT true. 1) "one of the lies of christianity is that i'm evil because i'm born and the only way to be saved is through Jesus" that's absolutely something that we do NOT believe. We believe that everyone can be good if they really try. (the LDS religion at least, i dont know about others) 2) "I am better than you because my shoes are worth $500.00" Again, we would never believe something so superficial. In our religion we try to keep the sabath day holy because we want at least one day of the week to stay away from worldly things such as money. money makes no difference to us in whether someone is better or not. 3) "tell that to my very religious, read the bible every day, grandma who is dying of alzhimerz. see what religion did for her" Religion isn't meant to heal everyone's sickness and make it so no one has problems in life. Everyone has problems, everyone has a chance of getting fatally ill and the point of religion is NOT to stop that. that's not what we're all about.

I'm sorry if I came off too strong. I'm not trying to make you come into my religion. I just didn't want you to have the wrong idea about us. (which you probably still do, but there's nothing i can do about it)

Originally Posted by luv2dream

Religion isn't meant to heal everyone's sickness and make it so no one has problems in life. Everyone has problems, everyone has a chance of getting fatally ill and the point of religion is NOT to stop that.

Then what is the point of religion? And no that was not an invitation to do a surmon. That was more of a statement. Religion basicly HAS no point, you just said so yourself. It is just like paying a mechanic $4,000.00 or some other large amount for work he may or may not do on your car and you get no guarantees he'll work on your car or even check it. Religion is not practical or useful.

And don't get me started on specific religious groups.

And I don't want you to think of this as personal. I do not dislike you personally but I do dispise religion, all religion, with a passion. But only when it starts getting fundamental and its people start trying to control others and all that stuff. Otherwise I don't care what people believe as long as they are not causing other living things harm or making life hard for others. At the same time I'd say something if someone was trying to say you couldn't have your religion. If you want to waste your time you have that right. The only time I want to start a war is when the fundaMENTALists start trying to make this the United States of Jesusland and harm others or make laws against them so that they have no rights.

I think that if we did not have any religion the world would be a better place. One less thing to kill over. It certainly has no useful function.

[quote=dreamship;438291]Then what is the point of religion?
And I don't want you to think of this as personal. I do not dislike you
quote]

thanks for at least saying that you dont dislike me. religion isn't something that's supposed to solve problems for you. Its just more like a guideline, something that teaches you of what it's really about. It's not the religion that i "worship" it's what it teaches (although i kind of messed up the wording a bit, i dont worship the teachings) I guess it's not my problem that you despise religion. I love my religion because i know why i'm here and where i'm going and because of experiences that I've had, there's nothing in the world that anyone can do or say to make me not believe it. I'll respect where you're coming from though, and I'm not going to say anything else on the matter. I really hope i haven't offended you, i'm just defending myself when I say these things about religion. sorry, i'll leave it alone now

[quote=luv2dream;438315]

Originally Posted by dreamship

Its just more like a guideline, something that teaches you of what it's really about.

It is just fantasy. A dollar bill is still just a piece of paper with ink on it with no real value. Values of morality and justice are just as made up. I like values and morality, not saying I don't but just saying 'don't kill' and such like is just something we all want because none of us wants to suffer and as a people who have developed laws and governments we can make these laws that are just as much fantasy as a diamond being worth more than a rock. The diamond only has value because you place value on it.

Religion is just as made up and can't tell you anything. You are here because two people had sex not because god wants you to be a rape or serial killer's victim.

Believe what you want but belief is not fact and until you can prove that god exsists I think religion should stay in the closet.

[quote=dreamship;438396][quote=luv2dream;438315]

It is just fantasy. Religion is just as made up and can't tell you anything. You are here because two people had sex quote]

and where did those 2 people come from in the first place? please dont tell me you believe in the big bang. anyway, it's ok, it may be a fantasy to you, but the things that Ive experienced are too real for me to deny it. I didn't mean for this to become a thread on religion, and I said in the beginning that I wasn't trying to get you to believe any of this. I just dont see the point in you telling me its a fantasy because i know it's not. And i get it, you dont like religion, you dont believe it, you dont think it's real, you think the world would be a better place without it, etc. etc. I see no point in continuing this conversation. You wouldn't understand why I'm part of my LDS religion because words cant describe what i've felt that made me part of it, so lets drop it ok?

Oh but in my humble opinion it is a very bad thing to loose touch with your Creative side. I have only found my Fantasy to be my bliss and a source of Joy and religiously beautyfull feelings that enrich my life so much. And I'll tell you this: I am NOT religious allthough I have a Liberally Jewish/Israëli background I am not at all into organised religion. However I really DO believe in something miraculous and inexplainable just like what most religious folks would call God. I know very well the meaning of thne word "holy" Do you? Cuz if you do and I told you that (Lucid) Dreams to me are truely religious experiences then I need not explain any further on why I desire Lucid Dreams.

Painting, Drawing, Playing guitar, playing piano, Psychedelics, prophetic thoughs & feelings: These are the things that really enriches my life with beautyfull feelings. To me this is wha't life's all about: enjoying. And no matter how much higher you think your ambitions are everything still always comes down to you trying to make the best of life and enjoying it.

Needless to say (lucid) Dreaming fits in perfectly into the previously mentioned things. I intend to Lucid Dream for a number of reasons but in the end it all comes down to: It is a beautyfull experience and it awakens me joyfull with new hope and inspiration for my life and what to do with it.

Lucid Dreaming is exploring your Mind and it's simulated reality: something that truely fascinates me. Being able to experience your dreams with your full consciousness and freewill allows you to make the best out of it and explore your mind's fantasy world.

People tend to argue about what's the point of Lucid Dreaming, Drawing for hours, dancing to tribal music, meditating..etc but the main reason people do these kind of things is because it gives a sense of fullfillment and joy.
And for a graphical artist dreams are THE perfect visionairy prophecies on what to paint/draw/sculpt next.

I heard somewhere that u can use lucid dreaming to practice skills just like when awake. Try ta practice painting. Better yet, try ta find inspiration for your paintings through your dreams.

Originally Posted by luv2dream

and where did those 2 people come from in the first place? please dont tell me you believe in the big bang.

Evolution.

Originally Posted by SKA

However I really DO believe in something miraculous and inexplainable just like what most religious folks would call God. I know very well the meaning of thne word "holy" Do you? Cuz if you do and I told you that (Lucid) Dreams to me are truely religious experiences then I need not explain any further on why I desire Lucid Dreams.

It is just feelings. Feelings change and are not proof of anything. I've had great dreams also and you can make yourself feel all sorts of things dreaming or waking.

I heard somewhere that u can use lucid dreaming to practice skills just like when awake. Try ta practice painting. Better yet, try ta find inspiration for your paintings through your dreams.

I dream of owning a lot of novels as if having a library or something. Might try reading one.

Feelings are not proof of anything? I didn't say that. But don't underestimate feelings. Aren't feelings exactly that which motivates us to do what we do? You can't denie that. We act out how we feel, no matter how well thought out we think our actions are.

We're all just doing what feels good. Some of us do what they THINK is good; these are the people hurting themselves and others but still with all intentions of doing what feels right

If I there was no meaning to life at all... You don't wanna know what my life would be like XD I'd probably end up just having fun everyday as some junkie sex freak, cause I'd be having as much fun as I possibly could!! But I do believe in some other reality, and dreams are definetely a part of it all!
If you say feelings or thoughts don't prove anything... Think better... I just can't understand consciousness confined to a physical brain and emotions as being limited by hormones! And I can't understand my own existence without some force creating me! If you can, congratullations!

You are not special. Thoughts, love, all that is just chemicals in the brain nothing more. Doctors can show you what areas of your brain are active during these emotions. It is all in the brain.

And because this is our only exsistance that is what makes compassion, respect, helping eachother and the other life on this planet, protecting eachother and the other life on this planet so important.

If you wanted to do what you said you'd be wasting precious time.

Cheers. I've had enough. You all can continue to wade around in some half dream fantasy and not see reality if you want.

Originally Posted by SKA

We're all just doing what feels good. Some of us do what they THINK is good; these are the people hurting themselves and others but still with all intentions of doing what feels right

Which is exactly why the world would be better off if we all woke up from this 'dream' and saw what was really there.

You could not help but have compassion and want to do 'the right thing' if you realized that this was all there was. If this is your only life you should really appreciate it and the lifes of everything else.

Now let us all hold hands and sing "koom by yahhhhhh"

I won't be bothered with this thread.