new theory

[egizmo]

if not a bit too spiritual, id like to state a new theory, mabye what blocks people from becoming lucid is that our subconscious wants to remain in control when we are sleeping, think about it, our conscious mind has total control when awake, our subconscious is just our secratary, so it doesnt want to give up the time it has as boss, when we are sleeping

[StephenT]

I'll try to reason with it so we can both have half of each world. I'll let my subconscious take control whenever I'm not consciously doing things in waking life, and I'll have half of my dreams as lucids. Sound good conscious? Great!

[egizmo]

very good idea,but what i was going to try is have 1 lucid, materialize subconscious,then discuss how i could make life more comfortable for it ie: playing music in my head

[imj]

if not a bit too spiritual, id like to state a new theory, mabye what blocks people from becoming lucid is that our subconscious wants to remain in control when we are sleeping, think about it, our conscious mind has total control when awake, our subconscious is just our secratary, so it doesnt want to give up the time it has as boss, when we are sleeping Hi, yes U are right. So I think what I've been trying/tried to do and got lucid was to give something the subconcious wants to become lucid. Desire is mostly from the subconcious...so I tell it if U want it, U gotta get lucid....U gotta let me know what method U would like to use to get lucid . imj

[Moonbeam]

Yea, keep talking... help me figure out a way to convince my brain that I should be lucid whenever I want. I think you're on to something.

[egizmo]

you mean getting lucid to talk to it in the first place, if thats the case,im wilding tonight(responding imj)

[egizmo]

(responding moonbeam) as i previously stated, you must get lucid and discuss it with your subconscious

[imj]

you mean getting lucid to talk to it in the first place, if thats the case,im wilding tonight(responding imj) No. I meant during waking time....U have to use the method or RC that U feel comfortable with and 'goes' with what interests U the most for example U can incorporate lucid dreaming with Ur hobby or something Ur really pasionate about and BAM! Lucidity! That's how I got my lucids..... Not just RC and forget about it....the idea/feeling of lucid dreaming has to continue even after RCing....basically what the subconcious wants in life via lucid dreaming....so naturally Ur subconcious will 'want' to be lucid in order to get what it wants. IMJ

[Moonbeam]

(responding moonbeam) as i previously stated, you must get lucid and discuss it with your subconscious I've tried. The response was, "No problem!" You see my problem.

[StephenT]

What problem? Seems like there wasn't any.

[egizmo]

i understand(to both)im no expert on this, but im thinking you should ask your subconscious what it wants you to do(directed at moonbeam)

[egizmo]

im retiring now ill be back on tommorow

[Moonbeam]

What problem? Seems like there wasn't any. Well, that's what I thought too. i understand(to both)im no expert on this, but im thinking you should ask your subconscious what it wants you to do(directed at moonbeam) I'll try again and see if I can get a straight answer out of it. Good night and good luck, egizmo! I hope you get this figured out, for all of our sakes.

[StephenT]

Well, in a dream, I'd imagine that your subconscious would create a "subconscious" for you to talk to. Not the real thing. What I'd probably do is just be lucid, and yell really loud, "Subconscious! Dream creator! I know that if I have conscious control in my dreams that it will be better for both of us! You need to help us though! Give me lucidity in our dreams and we both with flourish greatly!" Then make yourself wake up. Or I guess you could listen or see what happens next. That is what I would do. And this is all based on nothing except for my intuition.

[skuruza]

very interesting. i will egt lucid tonight, and i will try to remember to do wold or another method instead of just WBTB (by the way WBTB at 3:00 got me LDs every night this week, but i had minimal control) and i will try to talk to subconcious. that's actually kind of like hypnosis- i mean in hypnosis you make suggestions to yr subconcious, and same here...

[egizmo]

i cant know for sure what will happen until i get lucid for the first time, i have never been lucid before

[Kromoh]

alright people. the subconscious is not some "hidden consciousness" within ourselves. subconscious is every thought that is not spreaded wide enough in the brain for us to perceive it. it is not some "hidden self" there is within us. consciousness is the ability to perceive our thoughts and find the best solution for a situation, one that fulfills our desires. when we dream unconsciously, our dream is not spreaded wide enough in the brain, and so we do not have the opportunity to do our will. our subconscious is not "controlling" the dream - simply because the subconsicous is not a consciousness, it is only thoughts we do not perceive (at least not at our fullest mental faculties) one may ask: why do we lose consciousness when asleep? because sleep is rest, both of body and mind. we, human beings, are not intelligent enough to stay conscious forever - just like a runner is not strong enough to keep running forever.

[LucidInCuB!zt]

Another theory (or could be a fact) that we spend most of the day in an unconscious mode and maybe it's carrying itself into our dreams. We can neglect this by trying to remain conscious of our dues and environment during the day, that consciousness will eventually carry into our dreams. Therefore we become conscious that we're dreaming..

[Kromoh]

that is a nice one Cub!zt

[Moonbeam]

alright people. the subconscious is not some "hidden consciousness" within ourselves. subconscious is every thought that is not spreaded wide enough in the brain for us to perceive it. it is not some "hidden self" there is within us. Yea I don't really know if the SC exists. Where else would all the dreams come from? I just kind of assume it does, but I don't really know. one may ask: why do we lose consciousness when asleep? because sleep is rest, both of body and mind. we, human beings, are not intelligent enough to stay conscious forever - just like a runner is not strong enough to keep running forever. I don't know if the lack of intelligence theory of dreaming has really been proven. OK, lucid tonight, I'll try to find the answers.

[Kromoh]

LOl yeah moonbeam. I completely understand what you mean. We cannot perceive our subconscious thoughts. For that reason if feels like they do not exist. But some people just use this to try to prove the absurd basing on the subconscious. Some believe it's like some "dark side" of ourselves (which is completely absurd, in case you don't realise it yourself ) The subconscious is like this: You thought of bananas four hours ago. Then your completely forgot it. But hey, you didn't actually forget it, the thought of bananas is still affecting your thoughts and behaviour without your knowledge - subconsciously. Then, for example, you go to the "Word Association Game" thread, and the last word is yellow. That word will trigger the subconscious thought, making it conscious again. So you go and post banana as a reply. What happens when we are alseep is that the brain reduces so much in activity, that we completely lose consciousness (in deep sleep state). Then, as our brain frequency rises, slowly clear thoughts start to form again - in isolated areas of the brain (therefore subconscious). Then, once we are back to our full mental faculties, our dreams may actually involve the whole brain and, if we don't happen to get lucid, at least the dream will be easier to remember. By improving Dream Recall, we are actually improving our ability to make subconscious thoughts and memories conscious - which, to say, greatly improves self control and intelligence. We get used to making subconscious thoughts consicous - so our memory improves, and so does lucid dreaming. ---- About the "intelligence" theory, I guess i just stated it wrong. It's more like "mental capacity". We do get mentally tired after exhausting activities and whole days awake - just like a runner gets tired after some running. For that reason, we must rest (just like a runner rests), because we cannot stay awake forever (just like a runner cannot run forever). As the runner gets better, he will be able to run longer without stopping - just like we are able to stay awake longer without sleeping. I actually think sleep deprivation can be seen as a mental activity, just like meditating. If you take children as an example, they can stay far less time without sleep than adults. lol guess I kinda made it clearer.

[Moonbeam]

By improving Dream Recall, we are actually improving our ability to make subconscious thoughts and memories conscious - which, to say, greatly improves self control and intelligence. We get used to making subconscious thoughts consicous - so our memory improves, and so does lucid dreaming. Cool. I'm glad this is good for something other than amusement!