Anyone else get this feeling?

[Elephantman]

Just wondering if anyone ever had the thought cross thier mind... I started to think back about my drought breaking the night before last. After months, that one night I just decide to do those few simple things. Why then? Why did it work that night and not the last 20 or so times I tried before? ...why was there no magic jumping pill in my pocket? I used to think that LD was all about stepping into the random dream world and taking charge. I'm starting to wonder if its more like you're granted access by your subconscious. Who's realy in control? When I fail to get an LD is it just one of those things or is it my subcon syaing not this time. When you summon something, teleport, fly... just how much is a matter of willing it to happen and how much is still under the watchful eye of your subconscious, alowing you to pull a few tricks. Remember, your in the dream world now, its not your turf. My original post: http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5783

[Taosaur]

I've seen similar ideas on the forums before (see "subconscious" and "Belief and willpower" threads under philosophy). I also came off a long drought these last couple weeks, and I would credit just paying attention to my dreams, remembering them, and keeping a dream journal. Also, reading and writing about dreams on this forum has helped. I don't tend to think of just my consciousness as "me"--much of my waking behavior is no more planned, willed, or intended than anything that happens in dreams, and I become aware of it as it arises (if then), just as in dreams. For me, part of being lucid is recognizing that I'm doing everything that's happening around me, even if I'm not willing it. I just thought of something--next time I'm lucid, I'll try predicting what will happen, instead of willing it. Should be educational.

[slimslowslider]

Good questions! My partner has been going through an LD drought recently. The other day she went to a healer about a different matter. During the session she asked the healer if she had any ideas why she wasnt LDing at the moment, and the healer replied that 'You are manifesting so much in your waking life that you don't need to do it in dreams'. Another angle on this is the Tibetan approach to dreaming. They describe two main types: 1. dreams inspired by karmic traces of unresolved things gone by (including past lives), or related to states of existence - body, energy/ speech & mind. 2. dreams arising from clarity of mind possible only as the influences of 1 lessen. In these dreams one can see the future, experience hundeds of past lives and directly experience Truth. They do not always classify LDs as dreams of clarity, simply saying that awareness tends to improve with practice. And although the sun always shines sometimes a cloud obscures it for a moment! Lucidity is the consciousness of the true nature of the dream word as unreal, and this may help in realising that the big dream of waking life is also unreal. My take on this is that most of the time I have type 1 dreams, but sometimes when I am relaxed (and the clouds part) I have type 2 dreams. I can be lucid in either type and take varying degrees of control, but am more likely to want to take full control in a type 1 dream - the others are just too interesting to do anything other than just go with the flow, observe and learn. Either way I learn most when I dont control the whole dream - just my own awareness and actions.

[Elephantman]

Gues what I'm trying to get at is wich came first? Was it me trying to achieve LD again, and making it happen by my actions and preperations? or was it something in the back of my mind saying 'Its time, try again.' I just had this very faint feeling that something was diferent when I was preparing that night.

[Dream Seal]

This is related to what you are saying but not quite in the same way. You mentioned the subconscious perhaps granting access to the lucid dream. I'm not sure about that, but what I've wondered more about is the situation within a lucid dream itself, i.e. once you are in there. What level of control do we really have over the content of the dream? We can add objects and people into the world in front of us, go flying, walk on water, make things catch on fire, whatever we happen to try out. But these things do not always work. Sometimes they fizz out in some weird way, and sometimes they just don't happen at all. - I wonder therefore what filtering the subconscious has over what we want to introduce to the dream. Obviously the vast majority of a lucid dream is generated by the subconscious. In many lucid dreams I have just observed what is happening around me and stared in wonder, thinking about where all this imagery is coming from as no part of my mind that I am 'aware' of is producing it. Obviously it must be my subconscious, but why then am I also able to modify the dream and add to it just by willing it to happen? Are there different levels of thoughts? Some thoughts that happen deep in our subconscious and some that happen at the conscious level?

[Taosaur]

Terms like "subconscious" or "collective unconscious" are mainly ways of recognizing that our identities are part of a dynamic system. There are no discrete boundaries between conscious and subconscious, or unconscious. Everything that happens in a dream is within the system of "you"; you're doing it all. If you think in terms of the subconscious acting against "you," then you're dividing yourself into parts and having them tug against each other. If we set the one activity of consciousness, or ego, apart from everything else the mind is doing, it is like a flea tugging against a dog: the flea will not hold its ground long. This is how I see "failed" actions in LDs: I'm not letting my whole self act in concert

[TheUnknown]

My subconcious.. i can sometimes talk to in a dream. I ask it sometimes if i am allowed to do certain things, and well many times it says no. It has taken many forms in my dreams. I've only begun to notice it recently.. but although i usually have total dream control.. their are situations where my subconscious limits it. (another interesting thing.. i had a conversation recently with it.. and i remembered a few things from my past) So yeah.. i believe your subconsious plays a huge role.. and your mastering LDing will depend on the fact of whether you can agree with it, or blend the line between consious and subconsious. This explains why you never have "full" control.

[Elephantman]

Hey thanx for those replys. You've given me some new angles on this stuff to think about

[gameover]

I think the more you seperate yourself from your subconcious the less in touch with it youll be. I hear people going on about the subconcious hating them, and subconcious getting in your way, or having power over you. That sounds like a split personality disorder or something. I'm starting to wonder if its more like you're granted access by your subconscious.[/b] What kind of sick power trip is your subconcious on? You're as powerfull as you let yourself be. When I have lucid dreams it's because I get in touch with my subconcious and work together with it, to create the experience. I think the main reason I don't believe that I need access granted is because everytime I practice the WBTB technique I get lucid, regardless of how my subconcious is feeling. Or maybe you're right. Maybe the reason I have access is because I try to work with my subconcious and he likes me! Remember, your in the dream world now, its not your turf[/b] I beg to differ. When I'm lucid, the dream world is MY turf! And what's great about it is I can have access to my unconcious thoughts as well as my concious thoughts and try to work with both of them.