Effects of Massive Doses of B6

[Simonster]

I'm wondering whether any of you have experimented with a large (500mg+) dose of B6, perhaps in conjunction with Melatonin and Valerian. It seems, at least according to these experiences, it causes a profound effect, much greater than I've experienced with either small doses of B6 or moderate doses of Valerian alone. I recognize the danger of nerve damage with such a high dose, but as long as the B6 use is not habitual, it doesn't seem like it would be a problem. 5g in one night has, in one case, been reported to cause neuropathy, but that's an insane amount. And don't tell me to try it without drugs. I can do it without drugs. I just think it would be interesting if it were possible to come up with a method that would induce a lucid dream every time.

[will.i.am]

so what is this B6? Just like a pill or something? Where can I get some? EDIT* Wait, I got it.

[Seeker]

Just be careful. After you have fried something, it is too late. 500mg seems like an excessive amount to me. Does anyone know if B6 is water soluble? Could be problems further down the line if it is not water soluble.

[Howie]

facts about vitamin B-6 Here is a lot of info on this

[will.i.am]

Oh wow! lots of info indeed

[Damascus]

Have a look at my post about this , thats just with 150mg. I am experimenting with B6 binging. That is, going without B6 for a long time then taking slightly larger doeses than usual. The effects prove that it ties in with my random taking results, where i took 50mg-100mg at random, irregular intervals instead of nightly. The effects were that it had a much, much more profound effect on dreams than usual. PM me your results on this, they sound interesting!

[will.i.am]

Does anyone know how much this stuff costs? Being in college I'm hard pressed for cash, but I've got some spending money, all of 15 bucks w()()T!

[Placebo]

lol - then we won't suggest melatonin for you

[will.i.am]

Hey Christmas is coming!

[Kaniaz]

Seriously watch out. A study was published back in 1999, noting that if you took more than 100mg of B6 for two months in a row, you can cause perm. nerve damage and/or numbness in the arms and legs. It's really easy to overdose yourself on drugs and end up screwing yourself over for life. Shouldn't be taking them in the first place really, as you don't need them, but that's more of an opinon and dosen't matter. What does matter is that you don't fry yourself. EDIT: B6, not melatonin. Thanks for pointing that out Placebo.

[will.i.am]

EEEK! But noted.

[Kaniaz]

I wouldn't worry too much about it, you'd have to be a bit bonkers in the first place to take 100mg every day or so 2 months running. Just best to make sure you don't go a little nuts with it...it's always tempting to go one step further...then another...and end up screwing things up.

[will.i.am]

Well, I just got back from the store and they had it there. I picked up some Melatonin and B6, I was so suprised that they carried them! So yeah, I don't want to go crazy and lose my legs and stuff so I will be taking them sparingly, if it even works.

[Placebo]

Well if you simply stop taking the melatonin/B6 for 3 or 4 days in a month, you should be fine And I recall that too much B6 causes the problem - not melatonin Melatonin has absolutely no known effect of overdose, aside from drowsiness The main thing to watch for is that your body doesn't become lazy and stop producing melatonin entirely Hence the 3 or 4 days off

[eMu]

I don't get the point of frying your brain over a dream when you can lucid dream without those vitamins. Nerve damage is permenant, do you really wanna live the rest of your life not being able to feel parts of your body? Sounds fun for about a day then you realize living with it how much it can suck, just not worth the risk for something you can do without.

[Placebo]

Originally posted by eMu I don't get the point of frying your brain over a dream when you can lucid dream without those vitamins. Nerve damage is permenant, do you really wanna live the rest of your life not being able to feel parts of your body? Sounds fun for about a day then you realize living with it how much it can suck, just not worth the risk for something you can do without. Actually, the damage they mentioned (regarding B6) wasn't permanent, if I recall correctly Eating too much creme brule is just as bad for you, in the long run. Does that mean you shouldn't eat creme brule? Too much of anything is bad Its all about balance - don't overdo things. The vitamins are there to supplement a lacking - not to make you light up like a xmas tree [EDIT] Regarding that, levels of these hormones are shown to decrease with age, dramatically. As to the vitamins, who can say their diet is completely natural and contains 100% of everything you need? (hehe - sounds like that slop from the Matrix)

[Simonster]

There does not appear to be any danger of nerve damage from a single night's usage of 1 g of Vitamin B6. See this document generated by the UK Food Standards Agency for a summary of all tests on B6-induced side effects. Here are some relevant excerpts from a few studies: Berger et al, 1992 (p. 86) Doses of 1000 or 3000 mg/day pyridoxine were administered to three and two healthy volunteers respectively, until the development of symptoms of neuropathy in an experimental study. Symptoms occurred within 1.5 and 3.5 months in high-dose subjects.[/b] Schaumburg et al., 1983 (p. 87) This paper describes case reports of seven patients who had ataxia and severe sensory nervous system dysfunction after vitamin B6 consumption. Patients self-prescribed a maximum of 2 – 6 g vitamin B6 daily. Only two of the seven patients started taking the vitamin at such high doses, while others began with doses of 50 to 100 mg/day. None experienced symptoms at doses below 2 g per day.[/b] Parry and Bredesen, 1985 (p. 87) The paper describes 16 patients who developed neuropathy after taking high doses of pyridoxine (200-5000 mg/day) for several months or more. The patients developed unstable gait, perioral numbness and a ‘stocking-glove’ sensory loss followed. Discontinuation of pyridoxine was followed by improvement in symptoms. The authors believed that the toxicity of pyridoxine was manifest through an effect on the dorsal root ganglion. Most patients took 2000 mg/day or more pyridoxine (many of these had started at lower doses) and symptoms became apparent within a year of taking 2000 mg/day or more.[/b] So no, it doesn't look like one night with one gram should have a significant effect. It takes at least a month for neuropathy to start at that dosage. Vitamin B6-induced neuropathy is most likely a temporary effect caused by a build up of the un-phosphorylated form of pyridoxal, which acts as an antagonist to pyridoxal 5 phosphate (the metabolized form of Vitamin B6). Thus, both deficient and excess amounts Vitamin B6 have the same effects on the body. Since short-term B6 deficiency doesn't cause permanent neuropathy, there's no reason short-term B6 excess should. On the other hand, it does look like Vitamin B6 excess has some very interesting effects on the central nervous system, as reported in Molimard et al., 1980 (p. 86). In a second experiment, a group of 30 patients were randomised to receive placebo, 20 mg or 1000 mg/day pyridoxine for 15 days with subjects given a variety of tests before and after treatment. At the high dose, an adverse effect was reported for word recognition, but not for word or visual memorisation. Performance in the visual retention test was worse in the high dose pyridoxine group after treatment.[/b] This effect is temporary, but it's something to keep in mind if you're dosing up on B6 the night before a big test.

[Kaniaz]

Note: I press the post button and a million people post, jesus. Threw my whole post off and had to restart. And yeah, placebo, i got the names mixed up. Not very good at that, it is indeed B6. I'm gonna edit the post above accordingly.. But yeah, why do people take drugs for LD's or whatever it is they want (not sure what the object of these drugs/supplements/whateveryoucallthem is, actually!) I don't care at the end of the day if this study says it is or isn't safe (lots of conflict here), but taking drugs/supplements when you don't need them just isn't really that clever in my opinon, and I wouldn't do it. Of course, if some reputable studies say it's okay and you won't fry your nerve system (even though a study says you might), go ahead and take it, but I won't be joining you. I suppose a nice way to sum it up would be, if I was your mother, I'd not let you take it.

[TheUnknown]

Yes... 500mg is not going to kill you, nor is even 1g.. however anything above 1g I would not recommend as you will build up a resistance and not only that but for me and a few other people doses of 400mg or more make us feel like wired zombies the next day.

[Simonster]

I haven't seen a single study that says you might get neuropathy from a single dose of B6. I haven't seen a single report of neuropathy (permanent or otherwise) from a single dose of B6. If there is one, apparently the UK Food Standards Agency doesn't think it's reputable enough to include in their rather extensive report on the B6 safety. Personally, my reason is that I'm curious. I'm fascinated by human consciousness, the brain, etc. Curiosity is kind of a shit reason, but if I can do it without harming myself, there's no reason against it. That's my general attitude toward basically everything. If it's fun, and I won't regret having done it, then I'll do it. Perhaps your brain doesn't fascinate you as much as mine fascinates me. That's fine too. I'm not trying to convince you to take drugs. I'm just wondering whether anyone has tried it.

[Ales]

To sum it all up- reading all this I guess doses under 100g/day are in a safe limit. Am I right or am I right? ALES

[Torcher]

500mg should most likely be a max for b6, and not perpetuated. Melatonin, which is a tryptamine to the subconscious, will help definitely with gaining a swift entry into sleep, but its prolonged use in high quantities can cause disruption in the sleep cycle, which is not necessarily dangerous, but ill-advised. I'm trying an experiment tonight with the following: Kava kava - 375mg (kavalactones) B6 - 200mg L-Theanine - 400mg *Melatonin - 5-10mg (not in this experiment) I'd be adding melatonin to ths, but I ran out recently. I'll be repeating this same test with melatonin present. I'll post follow-ups on the results. If I don't notice anything tonight I'll increase the B6 by 100mg, stopping at 400mg to prevent adverse reactions. Good luck to anyone else who might be trying this. -OUT-

[Torcher]

500mg should most likely be a max for b6, and not perpetuated. Melatonin, which is a tryptamine to the subconscious, will help definitely with gaining a swift entry into sleep, but its prolonged use in high quantities can cause disruption in the sleep cycle, which is not necessarily dangerous, but ill-advised. I'm trying an experiment tonight with the following: Kava kava - 375mg (kavalactones) B6 - 200mg L-Theanine - 400mg *Melatonin - 5-10mg (not in this experiment) I'd be adding melatonin to ths, but I ran out recently. I'll be repeating this same test with melatonin present. I'll post follow-ups on the results. If I don't notice anything tonight I'll increase the B6 by 100mg, stopping at 400mg to prevent adverse reactions. Good luck to anyone else who might be trying this. -OUT-

[TheUnknown]

nice double post *cough* post whore *cough*

[will.i.am]

.....thats not post whoring, just a mistake. A mod will fix it soon I'm sure.