Eh, micro WILD? Weren't we talking some weeks ago about how Raduga's technique is essential DEILD? Albeit a simpler form of DEILD, without having to bother trying to remember your previous dream and get back inside it.
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Eh, micro WILD? Weren't we talking some weeks ago about how Raduga's technique is essential DEILD? Albeit a simpler form of DEILD, without having to bother trying to remember your previous dream and get back inside it.
The forum's structure makes replying to multiple posts in one very inconvenient. There should be "quote this message in current in-progress response" button. Honestly I don't have the innate repulsion of multiple, or "necro" posts, it doesn't register on my radar. p.s. if it's so serious, why isn't it encoded in the forum programming to simply prevent it?
I do not know that there is a distinction to be made. The processes of "waking for the day" (the "reticular" system I believe it's called?) are all in the brain, as is "the mind."
I think returning to sleep is fundamentally all in the mind. I've experienced insomnia on nights after extremely strenuous exercise the previous day. It's really sort of pointless to argue about it: all that matters is results to the individual practitioner.
I find that in "broken" WBTBs, it takes about 2-3 hours of sitting up doing something quiet before I start to feel "sleepy" again. I've done this several times, enough to define a pattern I think. At that point, it is easy for me to fall asleep quickly. However, despite what you might think, I do not have better (more lucid, more vivid) dreaming under those circumstances at all, that I have found, compared to micro-WBTB, where recent anecdotal experience shows superior dreaming experience for me.
I agree FryingMan. It's not so important what we label our method, but rather that we carry it out in the most effective way. If someone wakes up for an hour and can't enter the dream state afterwards, perhaps less waking time is necessary. If someone wakes up for two minutes and then goes back to bed and instantly falls asleep, perhaps more waking time is necessary. It will be highly individualized, and may vary for each person as well depending on their current state of body and mind upon waking.
Raduga instructs going back to bed anywhere from 3 minutes to 50 minutes after awakening, so this leaves a lot of room for experimentation and individualization. And as Kaan says, his method isn't to induce a WILD right after going back to bed, but rather it is to go back to sleep and then induce the phase after the subsequent awakenings, although it never hurts to use an opportunity to LD/AP.
^^ Yes. The key is "going back to sleep." No sleep, no dreams. I prefer to optimize for more dreams. I will continue of course to experiment. But I have found I *severely dislike* being awake and out of bed in the middle of the night to start with. If I were a hermit living in a cave maybe it wouldn't be so bad. But I have a family in a small apartment on a street that gets very noisy at morning rush, and so there is a hard time limit: once everyone starts getting up, that's it, sleep time is largely over.
I forgot to speak about one important thing that moderate/long WBTB can bring, Raduga speaks about it, it is the REM Rebound effect of this "hole" in the sleep cycles.
More REM, more chances to be successful at a WILD/DEILD attempt.
Hm, interesting, I woke up at least once, and realized it, but it was one of those annoying "woke up while moving" awakening -_- I had a LD, don't even know how it started, where I was sliding down this tunnel with colorful lights all around it. Though it wasn't as bright as it should be, was getting kinda dark, so I said out loud, once in a while, "light!" and the tunnel would brighten up. It was pretty fun, but after a while I noticed the dream is going to disappear soon, so I thought, I wonder what will happen if I don't let go of it? I put my hands on the part of the tunnel at my sides, and maintained physical contact. Soon I lost all visual, and woke up in a long, false awakening dream, without lucidity..
Well anyway, I will also only report successes from now on, for psychological reasons like we discussed.
p.s. Would it be considered a LD when you're in a dream, think something is weird, do a RC, realize you're dreaming, then immediately wake up? I think it's the first time this happened to me so quickly, I'm not sure if I should count it as a lucid dream, since there was next to zero time spent in the dream with lucidity.
Congratulations Mimihigurashi
It sounds like a LD to me.
DILDs are also likely to happen with this technique.
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This night I tried my new Rem-Dreamer Pro, so I have been able to use the "recorded audio message" option that my Old Rem-Dreamer doesn't have.
I also used LD supplements (5-htp at bed time, and Galantamine+choline+alphaGPC at WBTB), and after a several hours WBTB/Insomnia I had several LD : DILDs when the message didn't wake me up, and DEILD when it did.
The message I used was a french version of "Kaan (I said my real first name instead), if you hear this, you are probably dreaming".
It seams that it wakes me up more gently than with the two strong "BEEP" I used with the former RemDreamer, and that it lets me DEILD easier.
I also notice that for the 3rd time in a row, the visual technique seams to work well for me: I wait for an image to form, and I simply focus on the image I begin to see, and I reenter the dream consciously.
Since I use a combination of Raduga's technique/Rem-Dreamer/LD supplements, I don't know to which ingredient is related my successes.
But speaking about technique, it is clearly still based on the Raduga's one.
One way to get more REM is to be actually asleep :). It is a risky endeavor (for me and those like me) staying up for a few hours hoping to then sleep and get REM rebound later, which may never come.
In my experience, I get better dreams with multiple micro WBTBs and more total sleep than one big WBTB and (maybe) back to sleep later. When I'm well rested and can sleep in I'll experiment with more uptime but at this point I do not see the reason. I by far prefer to remain asleep at night with micro-wakings/WBTB. There are examples of very high self awareness (e..g, Hukif) dreamers who spend no time awake during the night yet have stunning LDs.
Hey speaking about noticing micro-awakenings and what not.. Like I said, I agree that it's a skill which must be developed with time and practice, but practice how often? Would it be okay to practice it every morning? Do any DEILD tutorials advise against trying it every morning?
^^ Let your general well-being and level of rest be the guide. Everything is worse (recall, lucidity, etc.) when tired.
Good idea FryingMan. I'll try to go to sleep at the right hour and see how it feels after 6 hours of sleep.
Hi
How are things going for you all with this technique?
I have been using a cheap and usefull tool since I came back to LD and have had one success last week.
These last two days I added a training for the raduga's visualization cycles, using this electronic tool, and had got another success this night (although I also use supplements)
Basically I use a little, wearable, programmable, auto snooze, vibrating alarm called Gymboss Minimax.
You can read my test/review on this thread
During the day I use a pseudo random program that generate 1sec vibration at very different intervals.
These intervals have been programmed to simulate a random alarm, from something like 15min to something like 90min.
Each time I notice the vibration, I close my eyes, try to go out of my body for few seconds, then I start a cycle of different visualizations.
I started with swimming, then walking and the doing bicycle, but I am changing it to something more easy to imagine: after having tried to go out of my body, I imagine myself punching a punching bag few times, then looking at my hands, and doing it again and again, with sometimes adding some trampoline jumps to the cycle.
After that, I open my eyes and observe my hands, and the place where I am, I try to read some words several times as a RC.
During the night, I have another programmed series of intervals.
The goal is to create a reflex. If I feel the vibration during the night, I try the cycle I trained for.
the gymboss can create micro awakenings, false awakenings, it can also be integrated in the dream scenario, or just be not noticed at all.
this night it kinda worked.
I felt the vibration, I did the cycle, and, maybe just after, I had a dream in which , few seconds after the beginning of the dream, I noticed something wrong, and I noticed that I couldn't read something on a wall, and became Lucid.
I will continue my daytime training thanks to the Gymboss.
Hi Kaan,
Your technique seems like a modified version of Tlaloc's technique - that again is similar to the forgotten saltcube timer (beeps, not random but with different intervals). Glad it works for you!
Regarding myself, I have been quite busy lately to actively participate in the Forums, but apart from that, I have been facing a challenging situation regarding LDing: Since my initial success with the Raduga technique, almost all subsequent attempts were ruined by some kind of hard-to-control, internal feeling of anxiety, that led me to insomnia (something I never experienced before attempting Raduga). This has been my main problem ever since...
I have tried many different approaches to overcome this, ranging from introspection and affirmations (following Vince's advice) to trying alternating techniques, including SSILD and using my RemDreamer again, to making a new customizable tACS device (PC speaker version) with custom settings (using different waveforms) to help me both fall asleep and then enter a 40hz lucid state. Unfortunately, nothing worked sufficiently until now and many nights were lost in post-WBTB anxiety and insomnia...
A few days ago I decided to deal with it in a LD-therapy inspired way and i think that this approach did give me some promising results. So, going with this, I intend to resume the plain, classic Raduga technique - the way he suggests, not every night - and hopefully I will soon resume lucid dreaming...
We are Supermen, we just have to stay away from kryptonic, you know.. ;-)
I try to make it the simplest I can, which means a little bit complicated anyway, because I am like this.
I think the Raduga's technique is a very good basis, and it works, but only when you hit the good temporal window.
According to my experience, no matter what you imagine yourself doing, if it happens during a certain special moment (it is a question of seconds), it will work and allow you to WILD.
Even if it doesn't work as a WILD, you still have chances to DILD where you become lucid very soon in the dream.
So the big question is how to hit the good window?
The other big deal is to have the habit to DO the cycles each time you are in a window that allow you to DEILD/WILD.
I guess this has to be trained during the day.
What I try to do with Devices (Rem-Dreamer, Gymboss) is to generate these micro awakening, or at least to trigger False Awakenings, and to try the Technique each time it happens.
I also use the device to build my habit to do such a things each time it vibrates.
But, I let myself having some off nights.
I don't want to be obsessed by Lucid Dreaming, and I don't want to accumulate too much failed attempts.
So I do it especially the nights I chose to give it a try.
And the other nights, I just sleep normally.
having one or two LD goals before the night seams to help too.
I now always have the first goal of observing how much the dream seams real.
It seams to make the LD more real and stable since the beginning.
Don't keep faith SearcherTMR, and maybe don't make it too complicated.
Remember that the Raduga's technique worked very well for you at the very beginning, so it has to work again.
The motivation is an important key.
If you try it too often, or in the contrary if you never try, you have no chance to have LD.
:happyme:
Thanks for he encouragement Kaan, but for me the problem isn't how to become lucid anymore!
This was the problem before I stumbled upon Raduga: a lucid-a-month after much dedication and trial. After Raduga, I know how to succeed - the problem is that this knowledge has generated anxiety - the kind I used to feel only when speaking in public - that was never related to LD prior to Raduga. So, the success brought anxiety and this is what I have to deal with now. If I overcome this - and I think I am on the right track - success with the Raduga technique or some modification of it (using the RD, a vibrating device or a media player) is inevitable...
So, keep calm and Lucid Dream should be my moto now! ;-)
I am not sure to understand which way the anxiety is linked to LD and succes, nor what kind of anxiety and how it is affecting you.
could you develop a bit?
^^Well, have you ever spoken in public?
For me, as my turn approaches to get up and speak, I feel uncomfortable inside (in my chest basically), my heart starts to pump faster and I feel a slight shivering sometimes. When I finish speaking and get back to my seat, I immediately feel calm and normal again. It's something I can't control, it just happens - even though I know that nothing depends on that speech...
Regarding LD now, all those years, I never knew when I would lucid dream. I could be trying for weeks or months and usually unexpectedly, I would LD.
With the Raduga technique on the other hand, for the first time, I managed to LD almost at will. So now, after my WBTB, as I start rehearsing the separation technique, I know that I am about to LD and get the same uncontrollable reaction I used to get when I was about to speak in public... feeling uncomfortable and tense, a slight shivering sometimes and increased heart rate. Of course, that's detrimental for LDing - it leads to insomnia and failure...
I know it's ego-related. The problem is how to deal with it...
Anyway, I have a new plan of action - but I would prefer to share it after testing it, regardless if it will help or not. Of course any suggestions are welcome! :)
I wish you luck, Searcher. Let us know how the plan of action goes.
Thanks ThreeCat!
I will, but as I said, after testing it for some time.
Ok, I understand what you mean now.
I perfectly see what you mean about this fear, which is probably some adrenaline (epinephrine) running through the veins and making the heart beat stronger and faster, as if it was a mater of life or death.
I have felt it each time I had got an oral exam, or when I played music in public, and in other situations.
I also felt it when I started to focus on a WILD only approach few month ago, before knowing about Raduga's technique.
each time I was about to feel my body falling asleep while staying conscious, I felt this kind of physical fear, my heart was accelerating and beating stronger, and it ruined my attempt.
it was like if I was frightened by what could happen after that.
When I managed to have my fist voluntarily OBE, thanks to the Raduga's technique, I felt this again, but I also managed to stay as calm as I could, trying to ignore this incoming fear, like I had been training to do few months ago when I was using a mantra to train myself to WILD..
Maybe something like that is happening to you, and if it is the case, I think that all you have to do is to try again, and again, and get used to feel this fear, used to feel the sensations of your body falling asleep, until it slowly get weaker and weaker, attempt after attempt.
There probably is a unconscious fear behind this, but like pter explained me, it could be a simple reflex from the body: according to petr, the body understand these strange feelings as if you were poisoned, or something like that, and start to deliver some adrenaline (epinephrine) to struggle against what the body understand as incoming death.
Does it make sens to you?
Thanks Kaan!
Yes, I perfectly understand what you say, and yes, your experience seems very much like mine - so you know how I feel. The approach you suggest - keep on trying until it diminishes - is something I had thought about, but never tried - as I fear that it might in fact get worse and not better this way.
But if I fail in my current approach, this might be the next thing to try!
I'm curious if anyone has read Raduga's new 2014/2015 version of The Phase: Shattering the Illusion of Reality. It is an update of the free ebook version available on his website. Updates include:
- the shocking true nature of the phase
– the author’s changed point of view
– an entirely new section
– new techniques and methods
– hundreds of updates, both big and small
– the quantum mechanical aspects of the phase
– stunning new prospects
Out-of-Body Experience and Lucid Dreaming
I'm considering purchasing the kindle edition for $9.99 but haven't quite decided yet. I don't need it but I am curious about how his perspective on the phenomenon has changed over the past few years. But I figure if I wait a short while, a free ebook version will eventually surface.
Cool, thanks for the info, Vince. If I come across anything or buy it myself I'll let you know.
Frankly sounds like an effort to drum up cash. Look at all the superlatives while divulging absolutely *nothing* about the content. "Shocking! Stunning!"
I really have only one criterion that could get me to shell out $9.99: that he has modifications that *drastically* improve the changes of getting lucid. Given that he claims 80% success in 3 attempts in the old version, it would have to be an astronomical new discovery that's "too good to be true." And given what we all pretty much already know about LD/"the phase", I really doubt there's such a discovery.
It is obvious to me that this is all about business.
I don't believe one second that he has changed his mind about the true nature of "the phase" and I am convinced that he has always thought that it is all about dreaming.
He just can't tell this too directly to keep an audience.
All his technique is based on physiological stuffs because this is a physiological phenomenon.
Tricking the body and the brain to use a product of our brain : the dream, in order to live a tripping experience (OBE/LD).
To sell his book, he has to get the audience of more "believers", "Astral Travel" adepts that are simply more numerous than lucid dreamers.
that's all folks