Gymboss MiniMAX for WILD and DEILD purpose (test and discussion)

**Kaan** · 03-20-2015 03:25 PM

Hi guys.

I just ordered a Gymboss Minimax programmable and Vibrating (or/and Beeping) Alarm, I should receive it in less than a Month.
Basically it is a small vibrating Alarm that you can program and customize virtually at will.

this is a pic of the stuff :

you can wear it on your peg or your wrist, if you buy the additional wrist.
It is auto-snooze, the vibration (or/and beep) goes off for 1, 2, 5 or 9 seconds, you don't have to stop it manually.
you can program a series of intervals, each interval can be different from the previous and can last from 2 seconds to 99 minutes.
your programmed series can contain until 99 intervals in a row, and you can use 25 different intervals.
Each program can be stocked in a user preset, and you can have until 20 user presets memorized.

So, I plan to use this tool for my WILD and DEILD practice.

For WILD, I am thinking to use it as an automatic anchor, to replace any mental anchor, and to give me a temporal mark while I cross the different sleep stages.
I have several ideas to test, each one after a WBTB.

1) going with a fixed interval, for example a 1sec vibration every 10 minutes for a certain amount of sets.
2) going with a increasing intervals, starting from 10 min for example, then 15 min, then 20, etc...
3) The contrary of 2), going with shorter and shorter intervals as I approach the effective WILD window, and then longer interval for the next hours.
4) something else

For DEILD, the vibrations will have to be long enough to wake me up (you can not customize the power of vibrations, but only the duration, 1, 2, 5 or 9 sec and you can add light or strong beep) but not too long as I want to be able to DEILD so I don't want it to stress me and engage norepinephrine production that will ruin my DEILD attempt.

So After a WBTB, I can test:

1)The same interval repeated itself for a certain amount of time.
2)Something close to Random, but targeted to hit REM stage. the Random-like interval is to avoid any expectation from the brain.
3) something else.

If you guys have got any ideas to suggest, or want to try it on your side, or just participate to the discussion, you're welcome.

My tries will start as soon as I receive the stuff, that could mean in something like 3 weeks, I hope sooner.

**FryingMan** · 03-24-2015 10:52 AM

I like the feature set of this device, and will be following your progress/status reports with interest! Good luck!

**Kaan** · 03-24-2015 11:39 AM

I was expecting waiting for it few weeks later but while I am writing this, I just received the stuff.
It is even smaller than I was thinking.

I guess my first tries will happen soon !

**Sageous** · 03-24-2015 05:56 PM

Hmm.

Though this sounds like a great device for daytime work as, say, a reminder to do RC's, I'm not sure your Gymboss will be a lot of help with WILD, and seems to run completely counter to doing a successful DEILD. Not what you wanted to hear, I know, and I hope you prove me wrong, but here are my thoughts:

WILD: the WILD transition is, if nothing else, a delicate balance between maintaining your waking-life self-awareness and actually getting to sleep. As you wade through a swampful of noise and the physical insistence of sleep on your way to the dream, adding yet another distraction in that vibration and, worse, the unavoidable anticipation of the next time your Gymboss goes off, you might run the risk being thrown off balance -- probably in the direction of wakefulness, sort of like a snooze alarm, but also possibly in the direction of being lulled to NLD sleep by that steady anticipation of the next vibration.

DEILD: Using this for DEILD seems completely counter-intuitive to me. Not only are you forcing yourself out of a possible LD, but you are forcing yourself awake, and I have a feeling you might have some trouble finding a weak enough signal that can still wake you up without triggering your reticular system and trashing the DEILD. DEILD is very much a "Here & Now" event, which works best when you are in a LD and feel your body waking up "in the distance." In a sense, your goal is to never really wake up at all, never really leave the dream you were in, or at least the spirit of it, and to transition peacefully back to the dream -- and sleep -- without giving much thought to the waking world at all. To throw a rock into that placid pool with your Gymboss alarm (no matter how gentle) seems like the last thing you want to do. Plus, this is all assuming that you managed to time the alarm correctly, which seems a bit of a trick in itself.

All that said, I'm tempted to purchase a Gymboss myself, because it reminds me of the P.E.S.T. (Personal Electronic State Tester) that LaBerge was selling years ago. The P.E.S.T. was possibly LaBerge's best toy, but it was used during the day as a reminder to do dreamwork, and, though it could be connected to the Dreamlight, it wasn't much help during dreams.

There is, of course, an excellent chance that I could be completely wrong about this, so I wish you the best of luck with your new device, and hope to hear that it provides you with consistent WILD's!

**FryingMan** · 03-24-2015 06:57 PM

I agree with Sageous that WILD probably wouldn't be helped much by the device (but don't let that stop you from trying, everyone's different, who knows). But I part with him

over DEILD: Alarm-DEILD is "a thing" that many have great success with, e.g., sivason. The whole point is to give yourself lots of artificial wakings in order to fall back asleep aware. Yes there's a time limit, yes the major trick is to find an alarm that is enough to wake you up but not enough to wake you up *too much*. But the whole point of alarm-DEILD is to have a bunch of short LDs in a row. For those who struggle with experiencing enough LDs at the frequency you wish in the first place, it holds out some hope.

From talking with sivason, though, he mentioned that it took him quite a while to get the technique reliable, and he was already quite good at DILDing. But it seems a good investment of time based on his considerable success with this approach.

**Kaan** · 03-24-2015 07:36 PM

Thanks very much for your reply Sageous.
The P.E.S.T (I forgot the name but I remember the concept) is the first thing I thought about when I heard about the gymboss !

What you say about WILD makes sens, and I am aware that there is a chance that this tool will never help me to success WILD.
In the other hand, they are threads about Alarm assisted WILDs, and DEILDs, and others devices, that work for some people, so I'll see what happen...

Indeed, I don't want this engine to go off when I am very close to the WILD window, even if I will try such a configuration.
I rather want to use the gymboss to give me temporal clues at the beginning of the N-REM stages only.
I want to know where I am in the process by using a time scale, and I want it to prevent me from loosing myself

Some of my attempts will be helped by the use of Galantamine, choline and A-GPC, as it really helped me very much to succeed about 20 WILD/DEILD these last 2/3 months.

What I noticed is that I am able to WILD when, during my attempt, and when I am close to the WILD window, I first loose consciousness, fall asleep for a short moment, have a dream but not necessary, then I wake up and if I do some kind of Raduga's technique at this exact moment, I am able to WILD (at least with the use of LD supplements).

I guess I could also try to use the Gymboss to help me achieving this DEILD/WILD stuff by allowing me to have an artificial micro awakening.
To find the good timing is the reason of my request.
I am looking to ideas about what kind of intervals and protocole I could use to work on this "Learning to WILD" project.

The vibrations are not strong, so I don't know if it will wake me up to strongly when I will use the Gymboss for DEILD only purpose.

I'll see and tell you

**Kaan** · 03-25-2015 11:36 AM

I tried it this night.
My protocol consisted in taking 100mg 5-htp at bed time, sleeping for about 5 hours, waking up naturally, with an alarm (phone) programmed in the case I don't.
Taking 2x (4mg Galantamine + 200mg Choline) + 2x 300mg Alpha GPC +0,30 mg melatonin
Reducing the WBTB to it's minimum (the time to take the supplements, to go to WC, to start the programmed Gymboss and to return to bed, begining to relax on my back, then rolling on my sides when I feel like to do it).

Considering that Galantamine takes about 60 min to reach it's peak, and that Alpha GPC starts to kick in when the Choline is over (hours later), I programmed the Gymboss MiniMAX this way (I precise MiniMax cause you can't do that if you take the simplest version of Gymboss) :
3 x 20 min intervals
then
5 x 30 min intervals

So let's say that 00:00 is the moment I started the WILD process (Indeed I did it at 05:15 AM) the 1 sec vibrating alarm goes off at:
1) 00:20
2) 00:40
3) 01:00
4) 01:30
5) 02:00
6) 02:30
7) 03:00
8) 03:30

1) to 3) were to prepare me for the WILD attempt, and 4) to 8) were for a DEILD purpose

As it nearly always happen when I take Galantamine it took me about 60 min to really fall asleep, and the 1) 2) and 3) did their job: I was knowing where I was in the schedule and was aware of the clues that indicates when I was on the N-REM stage 2

Around the 3), I guess after it goes off, I managed to enter in a LD bye taking my Gymboss on my hands from the spot it was attached (under my navel) to see how many seconds were left before the next vibrating Alarm and at that moment I realized this Gymboss was bigger than it was supposed to, and that I just entered the Dream.
Then I started to slowly stand up from my bed, focusing on the tactile sensation from the device in my hands and from the bed, the floor under my foot, and the movements of my body, my sight was not 100% stable, and it was dark, so I was successfully stabilizing the dream bedroom by focusing on the tactile sensory.
Then a DC (my mother) woke me up (FA) by doing loud noises in next rooms making me believe that I woke up and that the LD was over.
I then had tons of dreams

Before the attempt I had been looking for different spots on my body where to place the Gymboss that is strong enough to wake me up from dreams after the regular WILD window.
I found that Wrist and pegs where too sweet spots, I barely feel the vibration, I doubt that Gymboss could wake me if I put it there.
On the contrary, when I tried the device clipped on my pyjama, just under my navel, I guessed it could wake me up, and that is what happened each time it vibrated, from the 4) to 8).

I think I have to be used to this sensation before being able to DEILD from the vibrating device waking me up, but it is efficient to produce micro awakenings, without having to do anything to stop the alarm as it goes off and turns off automatically after 1 second (as I setting it), and without being very much violent.
I remember once being able to nearly see something 100% (hands on a day time landscape) so I was close to DEILD.

I may also look for another spot to see if it can wake me up from dreams while being more subtle.
I also don't know if all, or even any of the vibrations ocured during REM sleep.
More elaborate timing could be programmed for the next attempts.

I guess Galantamine and other sups helped a lot too, so I'll have to test it the off days as well.

**Darksoul1994** · 03-25-2015 03:22 PM

I'm interested to see how your DILD attempts go, if you can perhaps become used to the alarm as a passive symbolic reminder to verify lucidity and not some wretched noise, you should have much success here.

look forward to updates.

**Kaan** · 03-27-2015 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by Darksoul1994

I'm interested to see how your DILD attempts go, if you can perhaps become used to the alarm as a passive symbolic reminder to verify lucidity and not some wretched noise, you should have much success here.

look forward to updates.

DILD is not my stuff anymore (for now), but it could be used for this purpose, by programming a kinda random set of delays for the day to associate the vibrating sensation with a Reality Check, and then by programming another "random" set for the night, but taking in account that REM sleep stages have to be targeted.

I am thinking of using this tool in this way too (why not today?) for days only (and try to DILD after several days of RC), but my main goal is to DEILD/WILD with this tool.
For that I have to find some accurate Timing.

That is what I tried this night, but without any EEG monitoring it's like going in blind.
This night I started the gymboss as soon as I went to bed.
I did not WBTB, and I think it ruined my chances to be successful.

The programmed night, from the moment I turn the light off and try to sleep (bed time), was this:
1x80min
2x90min
8x30min

The 80 min and 90min are there because I can not program longer intervals, the true targets start after 3 sleep cycles, I have no other way to do it if I want to start the gymboss at bed time.
I tried non the less to hit the first REM stages as well, but may have missed it.

I went to bed a little late (after 1:00 AM) and it is not a good thing I guess.
I felt several times the vibrations, but when I was sleeping almost half by my side, half on my stomach, the Gymboss that was clipped on my pyjama (like the first try) was not as strongly in contact to my skin as when I am sleeping on my back (because of gravity), so in this case I guess it is not as efficient to wake me up from deep sleep nor deep REM dreams.
Maybe it did and I don't remember.

I often sleep on this position, so I guess I have to try another spot.

For the next attempts, I think of sticking the gymboss to the skin of my wrist thanks to the elastic headband.
The gym boss will be cliped to the headband but the LCD screen will be the surface in contact with the skin.
this way I should feel it more than if I clip the Gymboss to the headband with the screen facing the outside.

Anyway, even if I felt several times the vibration during the night, It probably missed some of the REM targets, or when it has hit the REM stages, it may have been too weak to wake me up (when I was not on my back).

As I said, I maybe went to late to bed AND I didn't do a proper WBTB. I suppose this is not a good thing for DEILD.
The WBTB after 3 sleep cycles sounds necessary (at least for me) to make post-WBTB DEILD/WILD possible.

The all night wearing could be counter productive.
Since this is my first tries I can not really conclude anything.

Next tries should begin on next Monday.

**Kaan** · 03-30-2015 02:58 PM

Another Lucid Dreamer who is testing the gymboss (the simple version, not the MiniMax) has the same issue as I 've been having for few nights :
the vibration is barely noticed when we are dreaming.
I have been trying different spots, and am still looking for more accurate spots.
Things to test in order to fix this issue : setting the vibration for longer duration (instead of 1 second), or using the "beep" instead of the vibration.
there are still a lot of settings to test.

I am using the gymboss during the day with a programmed pseudo-random series of intervals (for example: 47min, 97min,64min, 35min,81min, 27min etc..).
The purpose is to develop a kind of reflex :
Each time I notice the vibration, no matter what, I close my eyes, I try to get out of my body for about 3 seconds, then do 2 or 3 times the following cycle: I try to visualize myself kinda swimming and looking at my hands for 3 secs, then I imagine myself walking, and then I imagine myself doing bicycle.
when I have finished this training, I finish by looking at my environment, touching things,noticing the details, and doing a RC.

the movement visualization cycle is basically the M.Raduga's technique, but I use the gymboss to get used to do it each time I feel the vibration.
What I hope is that I will do it each time the gymboss is waking me up from a dream, or when I have a FA where a dream version of the gymboss is vibrating.

I will do that each day, and will try different settings to reach this goal.
I will also continue to use the Gymboss minimax the nights I try a classical WILD, the same way I had got success for my first try.

**Kaan** · 03-31-2015 11:46 AM

this night I had several FA and a long LD.
I used supplements and the Gymboss after having slept for 4 cycles.
after a 1 h long WBTB, I returned to bed with the gymboss minimax programmed this way:
20min
30min
40min
30min
20min
15min
10min

I felt the vibrations several times, and I think that some of the not really noticed vibrations has influenced some of my dreams, especially a weird FA
For one of the few noticed vibrations, I have been able to try the Raduga's visualisations as soon as I felt the gymboss going off.
So even if I don't think that this visualization cycle was directly followed by a successful DEILD, the daytime conditioning is starting to work. It is possible that my long LD started just after this Raduga's technique attempt.

So I finally had a long DILD where lucidity came few seconds after the begining of the dream, because I noticed someone entering on the toilets of the hostel room my girlfriend and I where renting, and that I was unable to read something on the wall, just above the door, this was changing every time I was trying to read it.

the Spot I attached the Gymboss was the same as the first time: on my pyjama.
1 second vibration.

the visualization cycle I finally use is: giving punches to a boxing bag few times, then looking at my hands, and boxing again.

**EbbTide000** · 04-01-2015 01:15 AM

Kaan

I ordered it the day you opened this thread.

It is 10:20am Wednesday April the first here and I was woken by a knock on my door. It was the postman needing a signature for a parcel. My GYMBOSS miniMAX interval timer stopwatch has arrived. Yippppppppppeeeeeeeee!!!

I can't read the instructions though because the type font is size one or less. Still I'll probably be able to work it out just by pressing the 3 buttons.

**EbbTide000** · 04-01-2015 03:00 AM

Originally Posted by EbbTide000

Kaan

(...)

I can't read the instructions though because the type font is size one or less. Still I'll probably be able to work it out just by pressing the 3 buttons.

Wow!

An excellent 5 minute Youtube with all the instructions for my GYMBOSS interval timer.

dgtl_stars.png

♡♡♡

Gymboss Timer Setup and Operating Tips: https://youtu.be/7AwBrUEDnV0

♡♡♡(5:21) 24,061 views

Under the Youtube reads:

Gymboss Timer Setup and Operating Tips

Gymboss Timers*24,061 views

Published on Jun 24, 2013

This video will help you setup your Gymboss timer and give you some helpful tips and shortcuts you may not be aware about. Please feel free to contact us if you have any questions after watching the video. Thanks, Gymboss

**Kaan** · 04-01-2015 07:56 AM

Good news!

The video you posted is for the gymboss, not the gymboss Minimax.
I guess the linked videos contain the proper instructions for t he Minimax version.

you right, the user manual is to be read with very good eyes!
the way it works seams a little bit complicated, but I found it more or less intuitive.
I mainly learnt how to use it by using it indeed.

keep us informed of your results

**EbbTide000** · 04-01-2015 08:35 AM

:: Hey

Mine is exactly like yours, Look!

***

https://www.flickr.com/photos/debrajane/16809935090/

***

And YES all the instructions work for my one,

........

**Kaan** · 04-01-2015 08:51 AM

yeah but the since the video is explaining how the gymboss (not minimax) works, I guess it won't explain how to use the extra-options that your minimax has got : the multiple intervals.

**EbbTide000** · 04-01-2015 09:11 AM

?

Oh (!)

**Kaan** · 04-01-2015 04:42 PM

"An excellent 5 minute Youtube with ALL the instructions for my GYMBOSS interval timer."

I mean that this video does not give all the instructions for your Gymboss Minimax cause it's for the simple Gymboss, not the Gymboss Minimax.

The simple gymboss allows to program only 2 different intervals maximum.
for example you can program
8x20min

or
8x(15min, then 48min)

with the Gymboss Minimax, you can program for example:
25min, 45min, 78 min, 14min, 49min, in a row
or
4x20min, 3x15min, 5x78min, 10x13min in a row

Programming complex and multiple series of different intervals is not explained on the simple Gymboss video you posted, but I guess it is explained on the videos related to the Gymboss Minimax.

**EbbTide000** · 04-02-2015 03:30 AM

Originally Posted by Kaan

"An excellent 5 minute Youtube with ALL the instructions for my GYMBOSS interval timer."

I mean that this video does not give all the instructions for your Gymboss Minimax cause it's for the simple Gymboss, not the Gymboss Minimax.

The simple gymboss allows to program only 2 different intervals maximum.
for example you can program
8x20min

or
8x(15min, then 48min)

with the Gymboss Minimax, you can program for example:
25min, 45min, 78 min, 14min, 49min, in a row
or
4x20min, 3x15min, 5x78min, 10x13min in a row

Programming complex and multiple series of different intervals is not explained on the simple Gymboss video you posted, but I guess it is explained on the videos related to the Gymboss Minimax.

Kaan

Thank you for your patience

I copied and pasted Gymboss minimax into the Google search bar and found the Youtube for very clear instructions on the timer I have.

■■■

Gymboss miniMAX Navigation and Setup Tips: https://youtu.be/3Bq6UlN46us

■■■(4:50) 24,516 views

This is under the Youtube:

***

Gymboss miniMAX Navigation and Setup Tips

Published on May 28, 2013This video will help answer questions you may have regarding setting up your Gymboss miniMAX timer. It explains how to get into the Menu, get into the timing mode you desire to program, and then back again to the Menu. Please feel free to contact us if you have any questions after watching the video. Thanks, Gymboss

***

**Kaan** · 04-03-2015 11:40 AM

I have been sick these last few days, but still trying stuffs.
I have tried with the beep option as well, still with one second length.
There are two different beep: weak and strong.
As I sleep with ear plugs, the weak beep is way to low. I didn't notice it at all.
The strong beep is likely to wake me up but I'll have to place the gymboss on the wall, above my head. this way I should be able to ear it whatever the position I take on the bed.
my other tries with vibrating alarm make me think that this setting is unable to wake me up when I am dreaming.
I notice it when I am waiting for sleep but still awake, or when I am in the slow sleep stage 1 or 2.
the good point is that my training during the day is giving good results : at night, almost each time I notice the gymboss going off I immediately think that I must stay still, eyes closed, and try the Raduga's technique.

My conclusion is that a simple 1 second vibration or beep is not enough to wake me up from a dream.
It is maybe enough to be integrated on the dream scenario, but I'm not sure, and it is not my main goal.

I think about trying something :
Each time the gymboss is supposed to trigger the vibration, It will goes off two times in a row, for one second each time, at 2 seconds interval.
This way, if I feel I have been awakened from a dream by the gymboss, if I only feel one single vibration, I'll know that the first one has been ignored.
If it is still unable to wake me up from a dream, I'll try to increase the duration or the number of vibrations in a row.

Next serious tries will be next Monday night.

**Kaan** · 04-05-2015 11:36 AM

An advert for a first post, even if it is not 100% off topic it smells like a scam

**Kaan** · 07-09-2015 07:10 PM

Hi
I'm coming back to this thread as I have just been using my Gymboss again complementary to my Rem-Dreamer.

After having had good results on my WILD attempts with LD supplements , I noticed that I wasn't doing any progress in WILD skill when I was trying it without supplements.
So I stopped LD supplements and starter to improve what I could improve.

The first thing I had to work on was the timing of my WBTB.
It was arriving too soon in my sleep schedule so I progressively stopped to have those too early WBTB/insomnia.
Then I started to manage to make my WBTB happen during the two last hours of sleep (the h+7 - h+9 window) and I am getting good results on this by now.
I also started to follow as much as I could the good advices of Sageous on his thread and WILD classes.
So basically I started to avoid all the bad thing I was doing during my WBTB (phone, PC, tv...).

for now, I am getting closer but still far away from my goal, I still can't WILD even when I do it in a better way.
So these last nights I decided to use the Dream Alarm mode of my REM dreamer again.
The idea is to wake me up from the beginning of a REM dream, instead of a natural awakening that occurs after the end of a REM, and to start the WILD attempt from this point, with or without WBTB.

The "without WBTB" gives nothing as I fall back to sleep in seconds soon without staying conscious.
The "with WBTB" I tried was very short, about 5 min, but if I do it lying on my back, it takes to much time, and I finish by turning to my side and then I loose consciousness very fast.

So I had this Idea to use my Gymboss from this point, to help me returning to sleep without loosing awareness too fast (mantras and others anchor I use seam too weak).
my first try was this morning.
The Rem-Dreamer awakened me from a REM dream after about 7 hours of sleep
I turned my Gymboss on.
I programmed it to do a 1second long vibration after 2min, 3min, 4min, 5min and then 6 min.
I tried this combo 2 or 3 times, but the vibrations (I clip the gymboss on my pyjama) were a little bit to unpleasant and I missed the unique WILD window, BUT I felt that at some point I was very close to the arrival of the dream.

So next time I will use the beep instead of the vibration and will put the gymboss on the night table.
the setting I will use is 2,3,4,5,6,7,8 mins, (35 min in total).

My first impressions are that this external anchor could be more power full than the mental anchor I used so far.
My WILD position will not be on my back this time but directly in the position I like to sleep : on my right side.

**FryingMan** · 07-09-2015 07:24 PM

Slightly off topic, but what about 100% REM Dreamer LDs? It seems to reliably be signaling in REM for you. Do you get many false signals (while still awake or not in a dream?). Or are the available signals just too startling?

**Kaan** · 07-09-2015 08:22 PM

about the signals, either you use flashes, beeps or audio messages, most of the cases it will be incorporated to the dream scenario and you don't notice it.
Sometimes it appear as a Dream version of the device and if you do a RC (thanks to the RC button) you can LD.
Sometimes the flashes appear as a total blinking flash that takes 100% of your field of view in your dream, so you understand that your device is working and that you are dreaming.
Sometimes it just wakes you up.

It is hard to find the perfect setting because the deepness of your dream is never the same.
It was also the case with the NovaDreamer 2 decades ago (that I owned too).

That's why I don't use it much anymore for DILD purpose.

But it has a great potential for waking you up when you are in REM.

About the detection, since we don't know the algorithms, it is hard to know how exactly it works, but you have a sensitivity setting that you will adjust by consulting how much times it went off when you were wearing it.
with a good setting you won't have too much false signals.

I personally use the Dream Alarm mode to wake me up because dream alarm doesn't go off immediately after it detects a REM.
first , when it detects REM, it sends you a "normal" series of clues (that you have chosen or defined ).
the Dream Alarm will only go off 3 minutes after the end of this first series if you didn't touch the RC button (that add 10 min of delay each time it is pushed).
So, if you didn't notice the first series of clues, you are probably already dreaming so the Dream Alarm will wake you up from a REM Dream.
If you notice the first series of clues, you know that you are awake and you just have to add some delays by pushing few times in a row the RC button (and if it makes unusual sounds or flashes, you know that you are in a FA)

**Kaan** · 07-10-2015 08:55 AM

Second try this morning.

Everything went well with the Rem-Dreamer, I have successfully been awoken from a REM Dream in the h+7 target, did a minimal WBTB (toilets, turned the RD off, turned the Gymboss on), and went back to bed lying on my side, without being very focused on my intention to WILD, neither my mantras or my will to stay 100% still.

Firstly, the "beep" wasn't strong enough, as I sleep with earplugs, I just didn't ear it excepted the first one maybe, which means that I was felt asleep very soon.

So I changed the Alarm Mode of the Gymboss and started again with the vibration mode, the device being attached to my pyjama.

This time something very interesting happened : I have got several FA where I was trying to change the settings in the Gymboss menu, and trying to restart it in vain.
This means that the Gymboss vibrations can be felt in the dream.
I think the FEs were happening between the 3th and the 6th vibrating alarm, so between the 9th and the 27th minute after this new attempt.
all my experiments where happening between h+7 and h+8

I found that the first alarm was happening too late (2 min after the WILD attempt), and that the time between two vibration was not only too long but also increasing too fast.

I feel like trying vibrations arriving sooner and with intervals increasing much less.
I will maybe have to sacrifice some successfull WILDs to find the good approach, by letting the gymboss awakening me after a series of test (when the very last interval ends up, the gymboss vibrates during 15 seconds), to see how did my entry to the Dream world happen.

The 5min or less WBTB didn't gave me enough mental energy to be able to focus on my WILD attempts, my mantras or my will to be absolutely still, but in the other hand, I felt asleep very fast, all the more since I lie on my right side in spite of on my back.

My next attempts will probably be with something like (about the intervals):
1min, 1min30, 2min, 2min30, 3min, 3min30, 4min and a final after 4min30 min (waking me up).
these 5 alarms happening after:
1min, 2min30, 4min30, 7min, 10 min, 13min30, 17min30 , ending up after 22min.

not sure about the final alarm, don't want this "final alarm that is supposed to wake me up" to stress me and prevent me from being relaxed enough to WILD.