Originally Posted by
shadowofwind
No. Though certainly that is a part of it.
I think your comments here are mostly conjecture, generally consistent with but not actually supported by what is known scientifically. You can't necessarily trust other people's claims, since other people may be delusional or lying. So you must believe what seems reasonable to you based on your knowledge and experience. Or you believe what you want to. But your view is sharply inconsistent with what some other people know from their own experience, and the argument you make has been addressed at length elsewhere.
You're also guessing about what other people mean by demons, and there's no way for you to guess correctly without more information. I use the word demon because its the best word I have, but its probably not very close to what you're thinking, which appears to be mostly a straw-man. Unfortunately I don't have a lot of time to go over this from the start again, I move tomorrow and start a new job on Monday.
A relaxed person's mind is like a high-gain antenna, it doesn't take much of a perturbation to form an impression. And we know that perturbations occur, such as with quantum fluctuations. Though these fluctuations are often assumed to be perfectly random, there isn't actually anything in our theories that tell us this, the question is outside of our mathematical models.
In order to conclude that "there has never been an electrochemical message from an unknown source", you'd have to understand how it might work well enough to look for it, and you'd have find time and funding to look for it. But for a variety of reasons which we've discussed at length in other threads, nobody has been doing that. One obstacle is that it is not a message in quite the same sense as something communicated in a vibration or radio signal, so before constructing an experiment you'd have to understand better what it is that people are talking about when they speak of demons. Not everybody who believes in demons has thought these questions through very far, but a few have.
I agree that the demon would have to be at least partially in this realm and able to interact with us physically, in ways that don't involve dreams. But in my experience they do that also. Its usually subtle. A human being has a persistent body with a brain and hands for interacting locally with other objects. A demon can move and act parasitically through many bodies, but has a much more limited ability to 'cause' large-scale effects through direct application of force. By way of analogy, when a current moves through a wire, the electrons are traveling a much shorter distance than the signal moves through them. A demon is more like that than it is like a 'being', but it also acts non-locally, so in some sense it is everywhere at once. Its true that we have almost no idea how something like that would work, since it is as far outside of our current physics theory as radio was a thousand years ago. But just because we don't understand something, and can't control it well enough to easily reproduce it in a lab setting, doesn't make it unreal.
As I see it, the existence of demons follows pretty much automatically from the existence of telepathy: one allows the existence of the other. It is possible to discover something about this for yourself, and if you are sincerely open to discover something new, and remember dreams easily, I can help you do that. Or, if you aren't interested in looking for the evidence, I think that's reasonable, but then you just have to accept being uninformed.
I'm not going to have much time to continue this conversation. There are many old threads going over and over this topic though, addressing at length any objection you're likely to come up with. So far you haven't said anything that we haven't seen many times before. Or you could argue with Sageous or someone else who was there for all of that, though I doubt they have much enthusiasm for it, particularly when at least half of skeptics on this site are mostly trolling and don't really care about discovery. WakingNomad's attitude towards this is shared to some extent by all of us: if you want to find out anything about demons, you'll find out by exploring it. And we can help with that, it doesn't take much time. Or if you think you already know what's worth knowing on the subject, and its not worth your time to peruse what we've already said, then you can go on thinking whatever you want to.