Group Lucid Dreams?

[toyz5]

I've heard that it's possible to contact others in lucid dreams, has anyone ever done this, or is it even possible?

[Awhislyle]

No it is not possible and no one has ever done it. But if you want to talk to people who believe other wise, you can do it in this forum http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=9

[!x!HEEH!x!]

i have done it its pretty cool

[Limitz]

It's called Shared Dreaming, and no it's never been done before. It's kind of a theory. Some people think they've done it before because they want to believe that they have, if an aspect of their dream relates in ANY way to another person's dream, they tell themselves that it's possible. Though I would love to believe in this, there is no scientific evidence behind it. In fact, all the evidence points to it not being even close to being possible. Your dream is created by your subconscious alone... Your conscious mind isn't "linked" to any other persons, so why would the subconscious be? A way to prove this possible (if it is) would be to go into a LD, and tell the person who you're "sharing" the dream with a random combination of numbers. It has to be completely random, and you should write it down before hand. If the next day, the person recites the numbers correctly, it could be possible. As much as I wish shared dreaming existed, it's never been done before.

[BillyBob]

So much for open mindedness huh? Its never been proven but that doesn't mean its not possible. It'll never be disproven. but that doesn't mean its possible I personally believe its a possibility, but until its proven I wont vouch for it

[Limitz]

So much for open mindedness huh? Its never been proven but that doesn't mean its not possible. It'll never be disproven. but that doesn't mean its possible I personally believe its a possibility, but until its proven I wont vouch for it [/b] It'll never be disproven because to "disprove" anything that's not a material is impossible. I'm open minded towards things with some sense, but someone saying "wouldn't it be cool if we could fly in real life?" and shit like that doesn't mean I'm going to believe it's possible. I guess I just get sick of all the new age garbage that pollutes lucid dreaming. Sorry if I've offended any of your "beliefs." And yes, that's all they are is beliefs.

[blade5x]

I'd say, if you can do it, tell the other person a 4-digit number, if they get it right, then dream sharing is possible. No one will guess a 1/8999 chance. I want to try it, but I keep forgetting to everytime I go lucid, maybe because I don't really care that much. If it is possible I wouldn't recommend it - invasion of privacy. Unless the other person gives full consent. It'll never be disproven because to "disprove" anything that's not a material is impossible.[/b] Limitz you do realize there is practically no scientific evidence to how the mind works as well don't you? (And in the mind I mean in "being concious" and not the brain just interperting 5 physical senses for us). Maybe "eletrical signals" does you justice, but the same could be applied to dreaming and dreamsharing. Does that mean we don't exist because science cannot come up with a good concrete answer?

[!x!HEEH!x!]

I HAVE DONE IT BEFORE ITS NOT A THEORY My Dream

[The Blue Meanie]

I HAVE DONE IT BEFORE ITS NOT A THEORY My Dream [/b] The link you posted does absolutely nothing to prove shared dreaming. It just sounds like you spoke to a DC. Shared dreaming isn't possible, the whole idea is rather laughable and illogical. Is this me being closed minded? Maybe, but, I still stand by that. Dreams occur in the own individuals head. What one brain is thinking cannot influence another in a systematic, ordered way. Until somebody proves otherwise, the mere idea of shared dreaming is ludicrous.

[!x!HEEH!x!]

look i promise u it was true i told my sis the dream in the morning and she had the same exact dream. ive never told her that dream before and she resaid the dream perfectly

[PenguinLord13]

So much for open mindedness huh? Its never been proven but that doesn't mean its not possible. It'll never be disproven. but that doesn't mean its possible I personally believe its a possibility, but until its proven I wont vouch for it [/b] It's called shared dreaming, and like billybob said, it is something that hasn't been proven or disproven (and won't be any time soon, if ever). Many people say it is impossible, but many others say they have done it (as in believe it too, not just intentionally lying to look cool, though many do that too), and if they are wrong they are not lying intentionally. I personally believe it is possible, but I haven't done it too my knowledge, and therefore wouldn't vouch for it. Anyways, this really belongs in the beyond dreaming forum.

[The Blue Meanie]

It's called shared dreaming, and like billybob said, it is something that hasn't been proven or disproven [/b] No, but likewise, it hasn't been proven or disproven that there are an invisible race of psychic garden gnomes infesting my backyard. But, it's still completely and utterly stupid. Dreams are the product of the workings of the brain. There is NO evidence WHATSOEVER that the workings of an individual brain can be altered or changed in any organised manner by the workings of another brain. The very idea of shared dreaming is completely and utterly stupid. Not only is there no evidence for it, but EVERY damned THING that we know about the human mind and dreams so far, go AGAINST the idea.

[youaredreaming]

No, but likewise, it hasn't been proven or disproven that there are an invisible race of psychic garden gnomes infesting my backyard. But, it's still completely and utterly stupid. Dreams are the product of the workings of the brain. There is NO evidence WHATSOEVER that the workings of an individual brain can be altered or changed in any organised manner by the workings of another brain. The very idea of shared dreaming is completely and utterly stupid. Not only is there no evidence for it, but EVERY damned THING that we know about the human mind and dreams so far, go AGAINST the idea. [/b] You say it goes against every damned thing that "we" know about the human mind...implying that you have studied the mind, have you actually studied the mind? Also if you look at the historical study of....anything at all really, you'll find that todays mainstream accepted views were at their beggining, to say the least...absurd. Therefore, while dreamscaping/shared dreaming may seem illogical and stupid to your incredibly closed mind, you should never rule it out. Just because something is unknown to you and seems to go against what you think you know doesn't make it wrong.

[Limitz]

Oh my god. I believe I can ejaculate leprechauns. You know how little we know about leprechauns? Why can't I ejaculate them? Narrow minded people, I've done it before. Here's my experience, copy and pasted from my journal. ~~~~~ Okay, so I got home after smoking some pot. I was totally horny so I decided to rub one off. BAM! Leprechaun! ~~~~~ IT'S NOT A THEORY I'VE DONE IT BEFORE! Christ....

[Leo Volont]

The link you posted does absolutely nothing to prove shared dreaming. It just sounds like you spoke to a DC. Shared dreaming isn't possible, the whole idea is rather laughable and illogical. Is this me being closed minded? Maybe, but, I still stand by that. Dreams occur in the own individuals head. What one brain is thinking cannot influence another in a systematic, ordered way. Until somebody proves otherwise, the mere idea of shared dreaming is ludicrous. [/b] "Illogical". Whatever happened to empirical observation. You have retreated back 2500 years when Aristotle used to sit in his study and 'infer' natural truths. It took thousands of years for Humanity to learn to get up off their butts to go out and actually look. Now you want to retreat back to sitting on your butt and pronouning what you think must be logical, as far as you know. I had had a Shared Dream. I was a hungry college student close to 5 decades ago, and dreamt of raiding the University Cafeteria. I started at Line 5 toward the back door and progressed toward Line 1. Outside of Line 2 I met Anne, a friend of mine who I had met at another friend's, Violet's, soirees. We were both pleased to see each other and we asked each other what we each had found. I told her that there was there was nothing on Lines 5, 4 and 3, and she told me that there were puddings out on Line 1. We both checked out Line 2 together and found nothing. Then we separated. It was not a lucid dream. As far as each of us knew, we thought we were actually raiding the Cafeteria and did not suspect that we were dreaming, until after we awoke... still hungry. The next day, about halfway through the morning we met in a crowded hallway, and both of us smiled, because we remembered having dreamed of the other... thinking it something of a secret. But when each of us saw the other smile, then it became odd. Then WE BOTH SAID SIMULTANEOUSLY "I HAD A DREAM WITH YOU LAST NIGHT". And then, also simultaneously so that one was not leading and the other merely agreeing, we both -- remember... at the same time -- told our half of the story. Every detail meshed. She said she was raiding the cafeteria and had came in the front door and had already checked Line 1 where she saw some puddings set out, and then she had met me out infront of Line 2... blah blah blah. Now, it would be impossible for that to have been some elaborate coincidence. The only OTHER explanation would be to call it an Astral Projection, but I suppose that would be equally illogical to you.

[Limitz]

I suppose since Leo said he's done it, it COULD be possible. I guess another reason I've never believed shared dreaming possible is because the people who say they've done it say so in all caps and with no punctuation or coherent english. I think of things being realistic. Since there's no actual "proof" for me to see that it's possible, I decide that it's just talk. Of course, there is the chance that I'm wrong. I'm not saying that the people who I've called bullshit on for saying they've had shared dreams was wrong of me, because I'm probably right with cases such as !x!HEEH!x!. It could be possible, although I don't see how so scientifically. Then again, many things that exist can't be explained scientifically. I'm by no means saying that Shared Dreaming is real zomg g0 learn it. I'm just saying that I suppose it could be done... and I have no right to say that it can't.

[blade5x]

No, but likewise, it hasn't been proven or disproven that there are an invisible race of psychic garden gnomes infesting my backyard. But, it's still completely and utterly stupid. Dreams are the product of the workings of the brain. There is NO evidence WHATSOEVER that the workings of an individual brain can be altered or changed in any organised manner by the workings of another brain. The very idea of shared dreaming is completely and utterly stupid. Not only is there no evidence for it, but EVERY damned THING that we know about the human mind and dreams so far, go AGAINST the idea. [/b] Except we don't know much about the human mind It's just as possible that dreams don't happen inside of our head and happen on some "higher plane of existance" and the only way information from it could be brought back to our plane of existance is through electrical signals in our head. All science has poven is that something is going on inside of our brains... but why? That'll be probably never answered - cannot be proven/disproven.

[Invader]

Dreams are the product of the workings of the brain. There is NO evidence WHATSOEVER that the workings of an individual brain can be altered or changed in any organised manner by the workings of another brain. The very idea of shared dreaming is completely and utterly stupid. Not only is there no evidence for it, but EVERY damned THING that we know about the human mind and dreams so far, go AGAINST the idea. [/b] Can you be so sure? Dreams can just as easily be the result of another plane of existence that we visit during sleep, and since we are still in essence connected to our bodies, our brains react in the odd way they do when dreaming. There is NO evidence WHATSOEVER that what I just said is incorrect. And, as you so well put it, I might as well say that it is completely and utterly stupid to believe otherwise. Remember that even the electron theory is just a theory. Few things can be proved as absolute fact.

[Leo Volont]

Dreams are the product of the workings of the brain. There is NO evidence WHATSOEVER that the workings of an individual brain can be altered or changed in any organised manner by the workings of another brain. The very idea of shared dreaming is completely and utterly stupid. Not only is there no evidence for it, but EVERY damned THING that we know about the human mind and dreams so far, go AGAINST the idea. [/b] Look at your materialist assumptions. BRAIN THIS. BRAIN THAT. But once you admit that there may be some paranormal etheric avenue for perception, then your assumption of the strictest materialism explodes in your face. What is really STUPID is you denial of all the empirical indications contrary to what to you is only a Materialistic Dogma. You should buy yourself a big robe and a big tall jewel encrusted Hat and then declare us all heretics for not having utter faith in your unstudied and unreviewed assumptions. I suppose since Leo said he's done it, it COULD be possible. I guess another reason I've never believed shared dreaming possible is because the people who say they've done it say so in all caps and with no punctuation or coherent english. [/b] Thank you for your multiple endorcements.

[icuurd12b42]

Funny how this subject keeps popping up again and again. Funny how some people seem to be so adamant that such a thing is impossible. Frankly, I thought people with lucid dream capability would be more open to this kind of thing. I guess, deep down, one does not wish for this to be true as it kinda raises the question of dream privacy and, for some, this possibility that other people might find out what they do in their dreams might freak them out to the point that they would have to deny the possibility of such a phenomenon. I use observation and experience to determine if the phenomenon has credibility. I have found that, without a doubt, the phenomenon cannot be dismissed solely because you haven’t experienced it. If you had asked me when I was 19, I would have told you that you were nuts. Now, I cannot deny my experiences and dismiss them as pure EGO/ID driven simulations. I’ve had a few shared dreams with real life feedback. Though, don’t ask me to create one under “scientific” conditions. Such a dream occurs without any intent. They are random, just like my lucid dreams. The first time I had an inkling on the possibility I was 32, I had just dreamt I had sex with a female friend of mine (dream with no control at all) and she called me the next day, bitching about a weird dream she just had that she did not like, implying that I should know what she was talking about throughout the conversation (She was angry with me for weeks). She never actually told me what the dream was about even when I pressed her to tell me. She usually talked to me about her dreams but not this one but the various innuendos she put out there hinting that I should know what happened to her in her dream got me thinking and scared (I mean, it felt as though she wanted an apology). She relaxed on the subject when I told her (in another conversation about dreams) that I hadn’t had control of my dreams since I was a child. Now things are different. Now I can objectively make the distinction and have documented a few shared dreams here (And I do not do so to make me feel important either, I do so to help people that have experienced the phenomena make their own decision): http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/index.php?...st&p=321229 http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/index.php?...st&p=328350 http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/index.php?...st&p=330213

[SoulSearcherX]

I'm reading this thread with interest. Here's my take: I like to be aware of what I don't know. I think I'm a rare breed, because this is something most people seem to have a problem admitting, even for questions that very few of us could possibly have a definitive answer for. Does God exist? Is there extra terrestrial intelligence? Are there different planes of existence, or whatever the term may be that you want to call it? Is it possible for people to communicate via the dream state? My answer to all these questions is: I don't know. To the people who feel they can answer these questions definitely, absent any kind of personal experience that may give an answer, why is it so hard to admit that you don't know? It's fine to be inclined to believe one thing or another. But just as a personal account isn't evidence that something beyond the realm of known science exists, absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. And again, while it's fine to be inclined one way, being as condescending as some of the posters in this thread have been about a subject with no possible definitive answer like this is pretty shallow. To say that communication in the dream state has never happened is a hell of a statement. Everyone who has ever lived has had 4-6 dreams a night, every night of their lives. Go ahead and try and calculate that. It's fairly obtuse to make a broad proclamation about something never happening in a dream. If it’s possible, it is no doubt rare, but the only way it could be proven is in a scientific dream study which aims to test the concept. How many such studies have been performed? I’m not arguing that it’s possible or that it exists, but the last thing I want to do is to limit the potential of the human mind without a shred of evidence. It’s not like there aren’t hundreds of thousands of beliefs and theories that the mind can make a connection outside itself. Was Jung a quack for proposing the theory of the collective unconscious?

[The Blue Meanie]

youaredreaming: You say it goes against every damned thing that "we" know about the human mind...implying that you have studied the mind, have you actually studied the mind? Yes. Also if you look at the historical study of....anything at all really, you'll find that todays mainstream accepted views were at their beggining, to say the least...absurd. This is a much-used defence to criticism similar to that which I have made. It is also, in my opinion, inappropriate. In the cases you refer to, these new ideas were regarded as "absurd" IN SPITE of emperical evidence, because they did not fit in to a rigid, pre-established, largely religious framework of ideas based largely on church authorities. Whereas in the current case: there is NO emperical evidence for shared dreaming. On the contrary, there is evidence against it. In fact, the example you have used could be turned around: In the current case, people trying to persuade others of shared dreaming may be seen to be the remnant of the (mostly) dead and discarded mystical/spiritual tradition. It was this tradition against whom the original proponents of modern, mainstream, currently accepted ideas, regarded in their own time as absurd as you describe, were reacting. In this light, a belief in shared dreaming can be seen to be somewhat anachronistic, in the same sort of league as people arguing against evolution, or that the world is flat, etc. [/quote] Leo: "Illogical". Whatever happened to empirical observation. You have retreated back 2500 years when Aristotle used to sit in his study and 'infer' natural truths. It took thousands of years for Humanity to learn to get up off their butts to go out and actually look. Now you want to retreat back to sitting on your butt and pronouning what you think must be logical, as far as you know. Leo, you've got your philosophers around the wrong way. It's Plato who attempted to infer natural truths from "fundamental" principles without empirical obsevation. Aristotle, on the other hand, is considered by many to be the father of empiricism. However, aside from that, you've also totally misinterpreted what I've said. I'm not saying that shared dreaming is illogical a priori. What I'm saying is that shared dreaming is totally in conflict with science's existing knowledge of the brain and the mind, knowledge which has been obtained through proper scientific method. As such, if one is to accept these scientific principles as fact, then in light of this, shared dreaming is illogical. Look at your materialist assumptions. BRAIN THIS. BRAIN THAT. But once you admit that there may be some paranormal etheric avenue for perception, then your assumption of the strictest materialism explodes in your face. What is really STUPID is you denial of all the empirical indications contrary to what to you is only a Materialistic Dogma. Oh, stop whining, Leo. There are no emperical indications, particularly in the current discussion, against materialism. For God(s)(or the lack thereof)'s sake(s), Leo, get it into your head: saying "But it happened to me" is NOT emperical evidence. blade5x: It's just as possible that dreams don't happen inside of our head and happen on some "higher plane of existance" and the only way information from it could be brought back to our plane of existance is through electrical signals in our head. It's just as possible that there's a subterranian conspiracy of sock-stealing munchkins, and that people aren't losing stocks, they're having them stolen. Look, almost anything is POSSIBLE. It's still laughably improbable and ludicrous. Occam's razor... it makes no sense to make up a bunch of ideas, if there's no need for those ideas to explain stuff. In the current case, there's no even remotely credible evidence for shared dreaming, and evidence to the contrary.

[blade5x]

What I'm saying is that shared dreaming is totally in conflict with science's existing knowledge of the brain and the mind, knowledge which has been obtained through proper scientific method.[/b] Science has proven what specific parts of the brain do, but overall pretty much we know nothing about the mind - just that it exists. Science has proven a lot yes... but not when it comes stuff like this.

[icedawg]

I've moved this back from Beyond Dreaming (it was originally in GD) since this is a debate and the guidelines state it does not belong in BD.

[dreammask]

[ In the current case, there's no even remotely credible evidence for shared dreaming, and evidence to the contrary.[/b] What exactly is all of this evidence contrary to the possibity of dream sharing that you're referring to? You haven't yet explained WHY you don't think its possible except in saying that you think its stupid and illogical. It's only illogical to you because of your worldview, obviously, so what empirical evidence can you give us that will show group or shared dreaming as impossible. You say there is evidence to the contrary, but you haven't given any. I'm assuming you mean empirical evidence to the contrary, since you won't accept the personal experiences of people as evidence for the phenomenon. My physics classes have taught me that anything is possible unless strictly impossible. You use logic to argue, but it is also logical to say, "I and a number of other seemingly sane people have expienced shared dreaming, therefore it is possible." It's like the experiential argument for the existence of some divine being(s). If I've had "of-God" experiences and you say its absolutely impossible, you've just as much chance of being a quack as I have. So, where's this empirical evidence against the possibility of shared dreaming you keep talking about? I'd love to see it and judge it for myself. Thanks