ThreeCat's WILD/DILD Workbook

What's up!? I am taking the plunge and joining the class. I am looking forward to being instructed by FryingMan and fogelbise in the fine arts of lucid dreaming, and I think making this book will keep me motivated to record dreams and get a nice, relaxed, open practice going.

My main techniques are going to be the following:

1. "This is a dream" during the day (not a specific number of times, but coupled with presence)
2. WBTB during the night (30 minutes or so)
3. Resting awareness on the body (or the silence) as I fall asleep.

I'm going to try paying attention to my body or silence as I fall asleep because I have noticed that when I DEILD, my awareness is simply resting as itself. I'm never consciously paying attention to anything, but I am paying attention :). I'm going to work a little with this and see if we can get some WILD action flowing.

Also, I've noticed that many of the recent LDs I have had I have just spontaneously known I was dreaming, and partially due to "waking up" in the dream shortly after entering it. Am going to try to channel some of this and see what we can do. My dream recall is currently good. When I care to, I can journal dreams upon waking and remember basic elements and themes later. My level of dream vividness is decent to good, especially after a WBTB. Emotionally, I am enjoying my dream life at the moment (both "experientially" in the dream and "reflectively" from waking life). Looking forward to hearing from you guys!

I've always enjoyed your posts, ThreeCat. Will definitely be following this thread. ^o^

Thank you, Astral :) I hope it does not disappoint!

Last night I did the WBTB and focused on my body as I went to sleep. At first I didn't feel as though i had lost consciousness, but on reflection, realized I had gone into a dream and woken up. I tried again and had a short LD. I was walking in a city and decided to grow until I was taller than the buildings. To my surprise, as I looked around, I noticed a man in a business suit who was much taller than me :D I walked around the city some and the dream faded. When it came back I was in a shopping mall, but I am not sure what I was doing. I lost lucidity when this old woman was meditating at the airport. She was teaching some kids how to meditate.

So far, I am pleased, as I haven't had a lucid dream in a couple of weeks. Thanks for giving me the space to talk about myself :D

Welcome ThreeCat! :) It sounds like you have constructed a very good framework to keep having regular lucid dreams! Congratulations on the LD and on breaking a little dry spell! I do think that putting it down in writing like here in your workbook is a great way to put together what is working for you.

I hope we are all hanging out here learning from each other for many years to come!

Thanks, fogelbise. I appreciate you guys being my cheerleaders for a while, especially while I am getting back in the swing of things. I've been doing more WBTB because I know I need to post in this thread now :D It was nice to break the dry spell and be lucid during the dream state again. I'll keep you guys updated.

Nice! I have really come to enjoy WBTB, but I really have to get to bed on time if I do it on a weeknight.

By the way, I like your succinct overview of MILD from LaBerge's workshop in your signature!

Thanks! I have had some good success with MILD in the past. I think it's a great technique, and a lot of people use it without realizing it. Are you still using your visualization technique?

The past few nights my dreams have been vivid, but no lucidity. This morning I woke up from an anxiety dream and decided not to sleep in :D I did not want to worry about messing something up (I think I was a teacher again and I bunged up something. ANyhoo). Here's to tonight!

Hey there, ThreeCat! I'm really excited to see you here in the DILD class! I'm sure we all have things we can teach each other! Sorry it's taken a few days for me to respond, but I've been travelling and in the throes of jet lag for the last several days.

Your observations on the quality of awareness during DEILD matches mine. I haven't had all that many DEILDs, the conditions need to be just right, but that "lightly resting awareness," not heavily focused on anything in particular, lightly considering the dream just woken from, seems to be the main factor in DEILD success. In cultivating this sort of awareness in the just-woken state, perhaps we can nudge ourselves more and more in the direction of DEILDs. I think having a consistent meditation practice may help here, in avoiding getting sucked into being led too much into wakefulness by uncontrolled thought chains.

Enjoying dreaming is important: dream recall ability and qualities of dream vividness, once built, seem to hang around, are more reliable and less fickle as lucidity is.

What causes lucidity, especially consistent lucidity? I'm not sure anybody really knows. It seems to have a lot of inertia: both in building up and in ebbing away. Sensei and I have had a number of conversations on this, and one of our main current theories is that incubation plays a major role. While anecdotal, I've noticed that thinking about dreaming, particularly lucid dreaming, especially before bed and during WBTBs, seems to have big effect on lucidity. Reading LDing books and hour before bed, especially TYoDaS and Holecek's new Dream Yoga book, spiked a big spurt of LDs (5 within a week or so) after a long dry period. Can incubation be rolled in with intent? I think they're inter-related, certainly. A lot of things can fall under intent, including goal-setting. But each has a subtle different sort of shading of intent.

I know you've experimented with preparation rituals before bed (turning off the lights early, etc.), I think these are very beneficial. In my observations, about the worst thing one can do before bed is watch videos: the tendency to become mindless and caught up in the plot, losing one's self-awareness, for me at least is very strong.

I've said it before and I still think it's true: lucidity requires a "perfect storm" of preparation, conditions, and intent. I think it's hard or impossible to identify just a few factors that matter most: they all matter -- it's in the coming together of all the contributing factors where we find our successes. Every time I think I've narrowed it down to just a few things, I'll think "but wait, what about XYZ..., that's also critical."

There are some thoughts. I'm looking forwards to following your progress and in your insights into the process!

Cool. Something I worked with last night was the instruction from "The Phase": after WBTB, tell yourself you will wake up several times. During this awakenings, you will notice the awakenings and (basically) DEILD. I'm a little out of practice so I think I moved every single time (!) but I woke up around 4 or 5 times when I normally would not have.

Also, a helpful quote from Jack Kornfield: "If we only focus on the results, we will be devastated." And also, another good one from his teacher, Ajahn Chah:

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One day Ajahn Chah held up a beautiful Chinese tea cup, “To me this cup is already broken. Because I know its fate, I can enjoy it fully here and now. And when it’s gone, it’s gone.”

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On a side note, 90's music in my dreams last night. "Till I hear it from you" by the Gin Blossoms and Toad the Wet Sprocket, "Walk On the Ocean." Don't really remember details anymore of the dreams haha, but they were at least interesting and enjoyable. No more horror stories of returning to my classroom!

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Originally Posted by ThreeCat

Thanks! I have had some good success with MILD in the past. I think it's a great technique, and a lot of people use it without realizing it. Are you still using your visualization technique?

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Yes, and it is basically MILD and seems to be helping more and more with incubating characters and situations. I still use SSILD a fair amount but I have been mixing in MILD more frequently. Last night I tried a bit of weak mild during a very brief wbtb in which I was groggy (I stayed in bed too long before getting up, seems to work best to get up after quickly mentally "tagging" previous dreams) and it may have incubated an NLD and maybe some semi-lucid moments, but I was just too groggy to do a proper wbtb.

I hope all is well! BTW, many of us know what you can do, so I'm sure it won't be long before you are back into a great groove! :)

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BTW, many of us know what you can do, so I'm sure it won't be long before you are back into a great groove!

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Thanks, fogelbise! I am enjoying the process. Last night dreams were still quite vivid, and what was interesting is that I woke up multiple times, which for a while has been MIA (sleeping from 11 to 6, for instance, and saying "f no I don't have time for a WBTB). Last night I did the dream yoga practices from Tenzin Rinpoche's TYoDaS. I had several interesting encounters with DCs (none of them lucid, but some of them close, I feel). One had to do with a lady who threatened to "punch me in the face" or punch someone if we didn't stop talking to loudly outside of her house. I also had a run-in where I asked some kids to come over, and they sounded the alarm, saying I was a stranger or kidnapper! The mom came over and she had a good laugh about it. I was also hanging onto the fin of a dolphin and being pulled through the water, which was a lot of fun. I feel like things are right around the corner, so I will keep you updated.

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Your observations on the quality of awareness during DEILD matches mine. I haven't had all that many DEILDs, the conditions need to be just right, but that "lightly resting awareness," not heavily focused on anything in particular, lightly considering the dream just woken from, seems to be the main factor in DEILD success.

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I think this is just a decent way to be during the day as well. I know that when I am resting lightly, I remember to "take a break" from whatever has held my attention, and even "this is a dream."

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I've said it before and I still think it's true: lucidity requires a "perfect storm" of preparation, conditions, and intent. I think it's hard or impossible to identify just a few factors that matter most: they all matter -- it's in the coming together of all the contributing factors where we find our successes.

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I would agree, HOWEVER (because I'm going to say it!) I think awareness is most critical. Without that "break" in the logic-motivated mind, there is no room to even consider that "maybe this is a dream." But I do think things like acetylcholine levels are super important in boosting that awareness, as well as REM and day work patterns and any number of things, so yeah, we're on the same page there :)

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There are some thoughts. I'm looking forwards to following your progress and in your insights into the process!

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I do appreciate you both and am enjoying the journey so far!

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Originally Posted by ThreeCat

I would agree, HOWEVER (because I'm going to say it!) I think awareness is most critical. Without that "break" in the logic-motivated mind, there is no room to even consider that "maybe this is a dream." But I do think things like acetylcholine levels are super important in boosting that awareness, as well as REM and day work patterns and any number of things, so yeah, we're on the same page there :)

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This thinking for me just goes round and round! Yes, awareness is most important. But wait, if I only had access to memory, I'd remember my goal to get lucid and therefore get lucid and let my awareness start to work. So memory is most important. But wait, awareness and memory only really work well when there's a strong, concrete goal in place, via intent, so intent is most important. But intent can be triggered by awareness, so awareness is most important, .... and around and around we go. It's a leaky pipe syndrome: you think you've identified the one thing, and then you find cases where all the other things on their own are also "all you need."

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Originally Posted by ThreeCat

I had several interesting encounters with DCs (none of them lucid, but some of them close, I feel)...I feel like things are right around the corner, so I will keep you updated.

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Yes, this sounds like a very good sign that you are feeling that you are close! I have seen that many times, the dreamer notices more awareness in their dreams and follows up with another LD very shortly after.

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I do appreciate you both and am enjoying the journey so far!

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Thank you. :) It is definitely nice to have this community where we can discuss this passion that not enough people have and where we can learn from each other. It is an enjoyable journey I find!

Last night I did all of the TYoDaS exercises again. No WBTB. Dreams were vivid, but my memories now are a little faded. An interesting point was that in one of the my dreams, a recurring dream sign appeared: being in a car wreck where the car flips. During the flip, I felt that it was possibly a dream, and was able to guide the rotations of the truck with mental "hands." At some point I said, "This is a dream," but I was not certain as to whether or not I was asleep. I decided to just roll with it and see what happens. I lost that spark of lucidity and later was discussing with a dream character as to whether or not a flipping car wreck always means I'm in a dream. The DC seemed uncertain :)

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Originally Posted by ThreeCat

The DC seemed uncertain :)

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I'm still waiting for a helpful DC to come up to me and say "Dude! Do a RC, you're dreaming!" My DCs are just not helpful. I sometimes do a waking visualization practice where everything: people, cars, buildings, trees, cups, tables, any object, tells me, "Hey, man, you're dreaming!" Maybe doing this more will incubate it happening!

In terms of DY I'm getting better and better at the throat lotus and Ah visualizations. Holecek has several exercises in his book and even some diagrams of the visualizations he suggests, I recommend his DY book if you haven't read it yet.

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My DCs are just not helpful.

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Since "dream" is "mind," we have the ability to shape how we perceive/create dreams. I also had the same attitude toward my DCs for some time, until I realized that my DCs were just reflections of my own views and opinions. They have been more helpful, more funny, and so forth since I chilled out some. We've all lightened up together. So maybe, "It's possible that my DCs are trying to teach me something" or "it's possible that my DCs are reflections of my own narrow-minded views" (LOL), you'll see some movement. I think that your approach is interesting and it may be necessary. It's important to remember though that as long as we are "trying" to do something, we aren't working at full capacity (we're trying, which means we aren't satisfied with what we have)

My dad was helpful DC for a while, and on a few occasions told me I was dreaming. In WL, however, we had an unfortunate (fortunate) fight. That very night he disappeared from my dreams and did not return again for some time (I want to say when he did appear he was an unpleasant figure). I don't even wonder whether or not this was directly related to my waking life experience. MIND = MIND!

I am going to read Andrew's book at some point. Currently I am out of a job so I don't have a lot of extra money (which is fine actually). We have been doing a cash budget for food. I do have some interviews coming up which is nice for part time jobs. Maybe at that point I will make a book purchase.

Still doing TYoDaS practices. This morning, had a fairly long LD (15, 20 minutes?). Started while I was swimming in lake with Jesus (?). A woman/ghoul creature was swimming underwater beneath us. I realized I was dreaming and TKed her out of the water, then sent Jesus to fight her (?) I flew around my mom's yard for a bit, half flew, half climbed onto the roof of the house and then jumped onto the roof of the pool enclosure, and then down onto the deck. Went inside. Walked around for a bit, turned on the lights in my sister's room and woke her up. Then went around the house turning out all of the lights. For some reason, felt like I woke up, and began discussing the LD with other DCs. I'll take it!

Very nice, another LD! It sounds like you are back on track! What you mentioned about DC's in the previous post gives me some inspiration to try to use my DC's more, thanks for bringing that up!

Another LD this morning. Quite short (I think, though really only the memory is short). I was in a dark room and wearing a dress. I was a bit flustered because the dress wouldn't cover my properly and then fell down. I suddenly realized this was a bit odd and said, "This is a dream!" to a DC (who happens to be a former student in WL). He smiled and nodded. I went out into a brightly-lit room full of other DCs. I am completely naked at this point but it's cool. I don't recall what happened after that.

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What you mentioned about DC's in the previous post gives me some inspiration to try to use my DC's more, thanks for bringing that up!

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I would love to hear what you manage to do. Also, those green stars look good on you, fogelbise!

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Originally Posted by ThreeCat

Another LD this morning. Quite short (I think, though really only the memory is short). I was in a dark room and wearing a dress. I was a bit flustered because the dress wouldn't cover my properly and then fell down. I suddenly realized this was a bit odd and said, "This is a dream!" to a DC (who happens to be a former student in WL). He smiled and nodded. I went out into a brightly-lit room full of other DCs. I am completely naked at this point but it's cool. I don't recall what happened after that.



I would love to hear what you manage to do. Also, those green stars look good on you, fogelbise!

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Congratulations once again! :) I also had one last night where I was very suspicious that just my memory was short and I kept digging and was surprised at all of the details that were hiding in a lucid dream and one in which I was thinking to myself how clear my thinking was during the dream. It was early in the sleep cycle, a near-WILD (some gap, so DILD) and was followed by NLD's so that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it…

I need to add the DC thing to my peg system for goals, perhaps peg#5, but nothing yet on this front. And thank you :)

This morning realized I was dreaming while in a tower. I shrunk and expanded the height I was at and then floated out of the tower window inside the tower (???), as though using the tower room as a hot air balloon basket. I then turned the basket upside down and floated to the ground. Some other stuff having to do with flying (floating?) and then I noticed an interesting house on the street, like a tall, thin mansion-like house with a stone square on the front. I went inside and it was identical to the house I grew up in.

On another note, while driving up to my mom's house (same house) in an NLD, I jumped out of the car and began singing: "I wanna run with yooooou... Hold...my...hand!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fI3tP-hGtNU

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Originally Posted by ThreeCat

I went inside and it was identical to the house I grew up in.

On another note, while driving up to my mom's house (same house) in an NLD, I jumped out of the car and began singing: "I wanna run with yooooou... Hold...my...hand!"

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Congratulations on the LD! And very cool!..It's like time travel, right?!

I also love songs in my dreams. I had Israel K's Somewhere Over the Rainbow a few nights back and I was so emotional about it…I'm sure you've heard it, but worth a listen either way:

(He passed away quite a few years ago so the video is in a tribute format like something you might see at a funeral)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_DKWlrA24k

Thanks for sharing your dream, fogelbise! It's great hearing from you guys. So funny you bring that song up. This year, during the Sleep Yoga retreat, we all sang "Somewhere Over the Rainbow!" It was part of what is called "Sangha Share," and I'm not exactly sure how it happened, but we were all given paper copies of the song. Good times, lots of fun.

This is a beautiful rendition of the song, and I believe I have heard it before, but definitely worth listening. Which reminds me... have you see The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou? There is a man who does beautiful acoustic versions of David Bowie's music:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lryAWxnEIZk

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Originally Posted by ThreeCat

So funny you bring that song up. This year, during the Sleep Yoga retreat, we all sang "Somewhere Over the Rainbow!" It was part of what is called "Sangha Share," and I'm not exactly sure how it happened, but we were all given paper copies of the song. Good times, lots of fun.

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Nice! Did you do a review of that retreat? At first I thought you meant the Laberge one which I will have to do one day.

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This is a beautiful rendition of the song, and I believe I have heard it before, but definitely worth listening. Which reminds me... have you see The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou? There is a man who does beautiful acoustic versions of David Bowie's music:

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Awesome, thank you for that! I had never heard that before. I will have to check out more of his songs and that movie!

I didn't do a review of Sleep Yoga yet, though I plan to at some point. It was another life-changer! Anything with Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche is really good--hearing him talk about eating breakfast is deep, lol.

This morning I woke up around 5 AM, not too bad, and I did not want to get out of bed at all. I did though, did a 25 minute WBTB with some meditation, and then had a 45 minute to 1 hr lucid dream. When I woke up, for a moment, I wasn't even sure what had happened. I haven't had a long one in a while so that was cool. In it, I was driving with my wife on the high way, and she was telling me to pick up change that was on the street (we were in some kind of tunnel). I picked up a dime (dream sign for me) and then a second dime. At that point, I RCed, felt that something was wrong with it, and told my wife, "This is a dream." She said, "No it's not." I said, "Yes it is, watch" and then floated through the air (somehow we are now standing on a concrete landing of an outdoor staircase). I float around, down the stairs, and come to rest. She then tries to tell me that the dream is about to end (lol!). "No, it's not," I said. I think back to what I can last remember and realize the dream has not gone on long.

Anyway, the most interesting part was when I was underground in a basement. There was a room down a hallway, where the floor had been ripped up (some of the linoleum missing) and I immediately "remembered" that this room was haunted. The quality of my memory had slipped and so I just used phasing to get away, as I was scared, but it would have been interesting to see what was in there....

Wow, really impressive, congrats! The longest LD I had was somewhere I think around 40 minutes as best I could figure, but was very low awareness, probably dipping into and out of lucidity along the way. It's really interesting that many dreamers feel strongly to share/convince the DCs around that this is a dream. The few times I do share this with DCs, the response is usually "really?! Cool!", I haven't had to work hard to convince anybody yet :).

Thanks, FryingMan! I want to gently move in the direction of transforming DCs, as opposed to trying to convince them that we're dreaming :D

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It's really interesting that many dreamers feel strongly to share/convince the DCs around that this is a dream.

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I think it's part of our social behavior, and a habit from waking life: "Did you see that!???" "What do you think?" "Let me tell you about what happened to me!" I would like to start breaking some of that down.

Very nice ThreeCat - a big congrats to you on getting back to lengthy lucid dreaming!! :D

Many times I don't want to confront my demons either but I have done it from time to time. I can't think of anything profound I have learned from confronting ominous figures, but eliminating them quickly has very little to learn from the scenario other than to not be so quick to judge/act…easier said than done of course. Well maybe theres a semi-profound one to share...there was one ominous figure that was empty when I opened up it's coat and I took that to signify that there is nothing to fear but fear itself…fear being the hollow shell of an ominous figure in that case.

But back to you TC - You are on the path!!

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Originally Posted by ThreeCat

Thanks, FryingMan! I want to gently move in the direction of transforming DCs, as opposed to trying to convince them that we're dreaming :D



I think it's part of our social behavior, and a habit from waking life: "Did you see that!???" "What do you think?" "Let me tell you about what happened to me!" I would like to start breaking some of that down.

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Hah, I had a huge night last night with multiple LDs and in the first one the first thing I did was tell my friend sitting with me that I'm dreaming and asking him what he wanted to do :). He didn't respond though so I just left him and went on.

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there was one ominous figure that was empty when I opened up it's coat and I took that to signify that there is nothing to fear but fear itself…fear being the hollow shell of an ominous figure in that case.

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That sounds pretty profound to me, and true, too. Did you notice it have any effect on how you handle fears during your daily life?

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Hah, I had a huge night last night with multiple LDs and in the first one the first thing I did was tell my friend sitting with me that I'm dreaming and asking him what he wanted to do . He didn't respond though so I just left him and went on.

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Congrats to you, FryingMan! I noticed you'd posted in your workbook so I knew something was up. Glad you had a fun night. I will make sure to mosey on over to your workbook and leave some fresh comments! "You can dream if you want to, you can leave your friend behind..." :lol:

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Originally Posted by ThreeCat

That sounds pretty profound to me, and true, too. Did you notice it have any effect on how you handle fears during your daily life?

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I think lucid dreaming overall has made me less afraid. I sometimes wonder if I have the right amount of healthy fear in the sense of not being too careless…not that I ignore obviously dangerous situations. I also read a research article talking about lucid dreamers that addressed this same idea not too long ago. Our conversation inspired me to confront a dark ominous hall in my dream last night, but nothing interesting came out.

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"You can dream if you want to, you can leave your friend behind..." :lol:

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Ah..Safety Dance by Men Without Hats! Great, catchy song!

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I sometimes wonder if I have the right amount of healthy fear in the sense of not being too careless…not that I ignore obviously dangerous situations.

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Sometimes I think these folks are alarmists. I also think that, in my guts, if a tiger charged into the room, I'm going to know the difference between a WL tiger and a dream tiger. That's my feeling, anyway. I would like to read that article, though, if you can remember where you found it.

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Our conversation inspired me to confront a dark ominous hall in my dream last night, but nothing interesting came out.

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That's cool, man. Fearlessness for the win. I'm going to have to catch up on reading your DJ. What have you been up to, dreamwise, lately?

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Originally Posted by ThreeCat

Sometimes I think these folks are alarmists. I also think that, in my guts, if a tiger charged into the room, I'm going to know the difference between a WL tiger and a dream tiger. That's my feeling, anyway. I would like to read that article, though, if you can remember where you found it.

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I don't know how valid the research article is, and it certainly didn't dissuade me, but I found it: Lucid dreams: their advantage and disadvantage in the frame of search activity concept The abstract may give you all you really need to know, but the full article is free.

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That's cool, man. Fearlessness for the win. I'm going to have to catch up on reading your DJ. What have you been up to, dreamwise, lately?

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I feel like I am in a very good place dreamwise. My DV DJ is in need of another update. I need to at least add some recent highlights. It has been over a month since I have added anything to it. It just take so much time to post it the way I want to.

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Originally Posted by ThreeCat

I also think that, in my guts, if a tiger charged into the room, I'm going to know the difference between a WL tiger and a dream tiger.

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This is very interesting. In my experience, when "immediate personal danger" presents itself, I would be very likely to react without reflection. I might reflect upon it immediately after (or even during) the flight to safety, but in the moment of peril I find instinct takes over. Now if it were some mythical beast, I might get an immediate "ah, dream!" thought, but for a waking-life equivalent, I probably wouldn't, not as an immediate reaction, unless I was already semi-lucid and pondering my state already.

That's a good point, and I may have been a bit over-hasty. In fact, I think I just had an aversion to the topic of "less fear is bad," which I think is a tragedy, but oh well (and not towards you, fogelbise, but just the topic :)). But yes, FM, I think I may feel relatively the same way, though there is a certain "something," that makes me hesitate. But who am I kidding, really, since I confuse the dream state with WL all the time :)

Oh, and fogelbise, let us know when you are ready to share the experiences! Thanks for linking that article; I read some of it and think I have the gist. I may read the rest later :)

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Originally Posted by ThreeCat

This morning realized I was dreaming while in a tower. I shrunk and expanded the height I was at and then floated out of the tower window inside the tower (???), as though using the tower room as a hot air balloon basket. I then turned the basket upside down and floated to the ground. Some other stuff having to do with flying (floating?) and then I noticed an interesting house on the street, like a tall, thin mansion-like house with a stone square on the front. I went inside and it was identical to the house I grew up in.

On another note, while driving up to my mom's house (same house) in an NLD, I jumped out of the car and began singing: "I wanna run with yooooou... Hold...my...hand!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fI3tP-hGtNU

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Great link here with your home house. Wisdom and love.

Thanks, Danny!

Aww, I've missed out on this awesome workbook! :) Hope you don't mind me having a peek every now and then, Threecat!

I'm really curious about your post #28 where you mention transforming DCs, what sort of transformations do you have in mind?

NyxCC, you are always welcome. I am interested in dismantling the reactions centered around the idea of "someone." I think changing my behavior towards DCs (by turning them into flower pots or toaster ovens, or making them big or small or beautiful or ugly) would help with this. Basically, I want to be more conscious of how I react to others based on the assumption that they are a somebody.

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Originally Posted by ThreeCat

Oh, and fogelbise, let us know when you are ready to share the experiences!

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Sure! If I don't do it tomorrow, it will probably be a week or more with a busy 9 or 10 days coming up (may not be around here as much during that period but will try to pop in as much as possible). I'll PM you when I do.

Night before last, a moment of lucidity: "This is a dream!" with heightened clarity, but then I don't remember what happened. This morning, I had an interesting NLD with Yoda in a space ship, flying through the clouds. Lots of fun, and I kept thinking how amazing it was that I was really with Yoda. I got lost in thought, and when I came to, I was suddenly in the passenger side of my car in the city. The clouds, ship, and Yoda were all gone. I was dumbfounded. How did I get here? What just happened??? I asked the DC driving what happened, and he couldn't tell me. I then escaped from the car and two DCs in the car chased me firing bullets. So much for that dream.

The next dream I was swimming in a river with my wife and sister. The water was very deep and clear, and I could see the rocks at the bottom. The current dragged me away under a bridge. I could breathe under the water, and then I was promptly deposited outside of the doors of a barn, as though the river had flowed through the barn and disappeared onto dry land. What the hell? How did this happen. "This is a dream," I say, and think to go back to the river to swim with my wife and sister more. I see a double screen door, though, and think it might be interesting to explore inside of it. I go inside, and think that there might be a light chain . . . and suddenly there is one! I click it a few times but no light. I try shrinking and expanding it to get light, nothing. I continue on. There are sounds coming from a bathroom so I go inside. Someone is in the shower. Who is it? I check to see lol. It's a girl, and she freaks out. Suddenly I fall into the tub, she is outside of the tub, and a loud gong rings once. I hope that the girl doesn't have a knife. She does! It's a butcher knife! She stabs me! I wake up!

The second dream had a creepy feeling to it. I knew in some way that the girl couldn't hurt me, but at the same time, I really did not want to be stabbed :)

Congratulations on the lucidity!! Yeah, I don't really get the people who say that they want to see what getting stabbed in a dream feels like or things like that…not really in my list of goals…depends on my mood perhaps.

You are doing great! To many more experiences! :)

Not much to report lately. A few close calls since last week (missed dream signs, and even a missed RC), but no lucid dreams. Dreams have been interesting, and I have a feeling lucidity is around the corner. I still have my goal to transform DCs, and am doing some work with that on my WBTB (when I have managed to do it, only a couple of times last week . . . hmm, is THAT why no lucidity??) and am going to start doing some work during WL with it as well when I can remember to do so. Will keep you all posted!

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Yeah, I don't really get the people who say that they want to see what getting stabbed in a dream feels like or things like that…not really in my list of goals…depends on my mood perhaps.

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I can't say it's ever been something I've thought about before. I did cut myself once to see what it was like (rather, to test for pain before cutting my hand off) but I woke up directly afterward. My only reason for that was to get some cognitive distance from my dream body, and not be so reactively attached to it (since it's not a real body and all :) ). But other than that, no, I do not desire to be harmed with knives or other stabbing weapons :D

Interesting note: I've watched two shows recently where the characters enter a parallel reality: Stranger Things and Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell. Strange that strange is in both titles . . . could this be a dream?? But watching those made me interested for RedKali's class on shared dreaming (which seems like it has lost steam recently :( ).

-Agreed. WBTB is definitely a major part of my ability to get lucid. Inspired by you, I did add transforming all DC's to be helpful as my current goal #5. I have transformed individual DC's, but love the idea of transforming all (or at least most) of them.

-Yes, I was just relating to your comment about not wanting to be stabbed, in case it sounded like I meant something different.

-You know, I just heard that the latest Mr. Robot episode involved inducing lucid dreams. I set one of the re-runs of that episode to record.

Happy dreams and LD's!

Not much going on lately. You get out what you put in, and lately, not much has been going in! This stuff with job hunting is dominating most of my time, though I am enjoying it. This morning I woke up with an interesting song in my head:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rXhXLsNJL8

I will certainly keep you all updated with news of any lucid activity :)

I'm back. Having some big life changes right now, so feeling like lucid dreaming might be a way to transform some stuff in my internal world. Had the first lucid dream I've had in a while (it was a WILD in the late, late morning). In it, as I was transitioning, I could hear a baby crying. I focused on this and slowly found myself floating. I currently have a broken foot so it was nice to be off the crutches :) Underneath a table was a cat giving birth (?) A tiny kitten came out. I'm not sure if this is symbolic to what is happening in my life at the moment. I hope so. "Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end, yeah."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGytDsqkQY8

Crazy how when your life starts to dismantle, you go back to the things that you knew before. I hope to be around for a while.

It's great to see you back ThreeCat and congrats on the WILD! It's a great time of year for new beginnings too.

I do hope you are around a while.

Had a powerful NLD a few mornings ago. One of those that when I woke up, I knew I needed to voice record it or I would forget it and be sad. A little personal to talk about, but it unlocked some areas of my life I had been struggling with. Haven't really practiced any techniques lately. As I said before, going through some difficult life transitions and haven't had a lot of time to devote to LDing.

fogelbise, do you have any simple techniques you could recommend, anything in your experience that would work during a time like this? Something I could easily do upon waking during the night.

Had a powerful NLD a few mornings ago. One of those that when I woke up, I knew I needed to voice record it or I would forget it and be sad. A little personal to talk about, but it unlocked some areas of my life I had been struggling with. Haven't really practiced any techniques lately. As I said before, going through some difficult life transitions and haven't had a lot of time to devote to LDing.

fogelbise, do you have any simple techniques you could recommend, anything in your experience that would work during a time like this? Something I could easily do upon waking during the night.

If i were fogelbise, ahaha, i would suggest Castaneda hand's technique

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Originally Posted by ThreeCat

fogelbise, do you have any simple techniques you could recommend, anything in your experience that would work during a time like this? Something I could easily do upon waking during the night.

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Sure. MILD or SSILD. For SSILD, if you've tried it and don't connect with the normal instructions, my variation is copied here:

Spoiler for SSILD variation:

How I perform SSILD:

"My variation with the cycles is to do two breaths focusing on the backs of my eyelids, two breaths focusing on hearing and then two breaths focusing a tactile feeling (I use the pressure that I can feel in my sternum area when laying on my back). This "warm-up" reminds me of how to focus on each of the 3 senses that make up SSILD and takes however long it takes to take 6 total breaths unless I start over due to feeling too sleepy to get the three points of focus correct. Then I combine the 3 senses into each breath. I focus on vision as I start to breathe in. I focus on hearing as I am at the transition from breathing in to breathing out. I focus on feeling as I am breathing out. When I am trying to DILD I will do this for 2-3 minutes and then attempt to fall asleep. Not being able to fall asleep on occasion is when I started experimenting with WILDs, sometimes with my sole intention being just to get to sleep but then when noticing the HH's I would remember various things I read about WILDing and experiment with them. Sometimes I would just fall asleep but more and more I was starting to succeed at WILDs. I found that my SSILD variation helps my WILDs in two ways. The first is that it does seem to create a bit of a trance like state which seems to help keep my mind from getting too active with "the noise" as Sageous says. The other way I feel it helps is like a WILD anchor, it is something to keep my intention in place while helping to create the fine line between just enough consciousness needed to become lucid and not so much consciousness that you stay awake. When trying to WILD I will do more repetitions of the combined cycles in each breath than when trying to DILD, but I may stop for a while especially if HHs occur. I may go back and do the combined cycles a few more breaths depending on if it feels right or if nothing seems to be happening. A few times I gave up, rolled over and only then did I quickly start to transition into a dream."

If you want to see some of the back and forth clarification regarding this style of SSILD that I went through in a member's workbook you can find it by using control-f (find) with the search term "cycle" on the following page:

http://www.dreamviews.com/dild/14763...orkbook-3.html

For MILD I always refer people to your post in your signature. I think it is the most succinct explanation I've seen.

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Originally Posted by fogelbise

For MILD I always refer people to your post in your signature. I think it is the most succinct explanation I've seen.

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Absolutely! And if you want a "lighter" version of this -- I'd recommend just good ol' reaching for dream recall. The benefits (other than remembering your dreams more and more) include the possibility of a DEILD if you manage to fall asleep quickly enough. To that end I'd say don't try to recall too "hard" -- just let the last moment(s) of your prior dream float around a bit in your head. And perhaps work on micro-WBTBs: just reset your intent to get lucid, and allow yourself to fall back asleep. I rarely perform a "real" WBTB, but I'd several times a night do micro-WBTBs consisting of dream recall and voice recording. When I was in the full swing of practice, this was good enough for 6-15 LDs / month, depending on the strength of my motivation and intention for lucidity.

Well, I'm back after another less-than-ideal reboot. Was still reeling from my divorce, being institutionalized, and so on. I think I'm in a good place to move forward and try something new. This morning I voice-recorded some dreams, but didn't like unlocking the phone and all that noise. So I found an app that will just record anytime I speak during the night. I'm guessing it breaks it down into files? No idea, will let you know soon.

I'm trying, my friends. Would so much like to make lucid dreaming a cornerstone of my life again. Was recently on a date and this girl said, "So lucid dreaming is like having a second life." Exactly! I'm ready to get back to that one. Fuck all this real life boo-boo.

It's always good to see you on DV ThreeCat! Sorry to hear about the "less-than-ideal" stuff, though part of the stuff makes me cautious about giving advice. I hope it is all behind you and that the only way is up from all that. :)

Welcome back, ThreeCat! I'm familiar with waking life boo-boo interfering with dreaming practice. I've been attempting some half-assed LD comebacks recently but lucidity in dreams remains distant. Connecting with dreams again via focusing on recall is a great way to start -- it's how we all started in the beginning, it's how LaBerge recommends it. I think the most important thing is establishing that "wake - remain still - recall - record" sequence every waking. A voice-activated voice recorder app sounds great. When I was recording at night it was always with voice recording.

The best dreaming times I've noticed also correspond with the best waking times. Having a mindful, relaxed, attentive, reflective, positive (even playful) outlook, "always on", in waking life and dreaming, I think yields the best results. Trying to live waking life one way and dreaming life another IMO constructs an internal, albeit perhaps subconscious conflict, that impedes both waking and dreaming experience. At the very least, it limits your practice time. Mindlessness during the day translates to mindlessness in dream, and lucidity during the day translates to lucidity in dream (with time).

It's as TYoDaS says: you can't start at the end. First comes awareness in the moment of experience, then in behavior (the moment of reaction to experience), and only then in dream.

PM exercises and daytime MILD (intention/reflection moments) with RCs as Laberge counsels are so helpful. PM exercises activate the goal-seeking center of the brain, which I believe is critical in dream lucidity. It gives you that little mental jolt that, through practice, we cultivate into full-blown questioning of our state and performing a RC. It keeps the subject of dreaming always on our mind throughout the day, which incubates the thought of dreaming while dreaming (we tend to dream about what we think about [not what we do!] during the day).

I find re-(re-)-reading the foundational literature very motivating, and I always pick up a new nugget that I hadn't noticed on prior reading. Reviewing ETWOLD chapters 1-3 is the perfect way to get back into it. Try reading it with a beginner's mind, and approaching the practice like you're a newbie. As I tell newbies, "follow ETWOLD closely, do what LaBerge says, and odds are you'll get lucid within 30 days, and dreaming will improve dramatically almost immediately."

Best of luck! Let us know how you're progressing!

Thanks, guys. @fogelbise: I'm not full-blown certified, just needed some help getting back on my feet! Advice is always great, even if not taken.

@FryingMan: thank you, FM. I'm re-reading TYoDaS bit at a time. I completely agree with your point about recall, and I'm starting to reconnect with my dreams again. I actually did SSILD last night at some point (don't know when, what time). Normally I start out on a reboot, have some early success, and then drop off. I'm hoping for some more sustained effort, sustained success, and so forth.

And I think that is great advice you're giving newbies. You can't do much better than those first three chapters. Thanks, guys!

I was mainly thinking about how questioning reality may not be the best thing when your reality is in upheaval.

I enjoy switching between SSILD, MILD as well as combining them as a third option for my night practices, throwing in twists from time to time. I do the same thing alternating of my day practices. It keeps my practices fresh and less apt to dropping off.

To throw in my $0.02 -- I don't see it as "real / not real" -- I see it as "waking / dreaming" -- just different states of our singular, all real, conscious experiences.

Thanks, guys. I mostly just do the "this is a dream," thing, so I don't question TOO much. I had the first sad, divorce dreams I've had in a bit, and while they were sad, I'm not crying or anything. Also, I know that as I start digging into my dreams a bit, I'll start processing more emotions and repressed stuff. No lucidity.

Hang in there ThreeCat, as much as you can, and let us know if you run into dreaming/LD roadblocks you need help with.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fogelbise

Sure. MILD or SSILD. For SSILD, if you've tried it and don't connect with the normal instructions, my variation is copied here:

Spoiler for SSILD variation:

How I perform SSILD:

"My variation with the cycles is to do two breaths focusing on the backs of my eyelids, two breaths focusing on hearing and then two breaths focusing a tactile feeling (I use the pressure that I can feel in my sternum area when laying on my back). This "warm-up" reminds me of how to focus on each of the 3 senses that make up SSILD and takes however long it takes to take 6 total breaths unless I start over due to feeling too sleepy to get the three points of focus correct. Then I combine the 3 senses into each breath. I focus on vision as I start to breathe in. I focus on hearing as I am at the transition from breathing in to breathing out. I focus on feeling as I am breathing out. When I am trying to DILD I will do this for 2-3 minutes and then attempt to fall asleep. Not being able to fall asleep on occasion is when I started experimenting with WILDs, sometimes with my sole intention being just to get to sleep but then when noticing the HH's I would remember various things I read about WILDing and experiment with them. Sometimes I would just fall asleep but more and more I was starting to succeed at WILDs. I found that my SSILD variation helps my WILDs in two ways. The first is that it does seem to create a bit of a trance like state which seems to help keep my mind from getting too active with "the noise" as Sageous says. The other way I feel it helps is like a WILD anchor, it is something to keep my intention in place while helping to create the fine line between just enough consciousness needed to become lucid and not so much consciousness that you stay awake. When trying to WILD I will do more repetitions of the combined cycles in each breath than when trying to DILD, but I may stop for a while especially if HHs occur. I may go back and do the combined cycles a few more breaths depending on if it feels right or if nothing seems to be happening. A few times I gave up, rolled over and only then did I quickly start to transition into a dream."

If you want to see some of the back and forth clarification regarding this style of SSILD that I went through in a member's workbook you can find it by using control-f (find) with the search term "cycle" on the following page:

http://www.dreamviews.com/dild/14763...orkbook-3.html

For MILD I always refer people to your post in your signature. I think it is the most succinct explanation I've seen.

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what's HH?

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Originally Posted by tblanco

what's HH?

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Hypnagogic hallucinations (also hypnopompic hallucinations).

Hi ThreeCat, how's dreaming been recently?