Thread: ThreeCat's WILD/DILD Workbook

I've always enjoyed your posts, ThreeCat. Will definitely be following this thread. ^o^

Thank you, Astral I hope it does not disappoint!

Last night I did the WBTB and focused on my body as I went to sleep. At first I didn't feel as though i had lost consciousness, but on reflection, realized I had gone into a dream and woken up. I tried again and had a short LD. I was walking in a city and decided to grow until I was taller than the buildings. To my surprise, as I looked around, I noticed a man in a business suit who was much taller than me I walked around the city some and the dream faded. When it came back I was in a shopping mall, but I am not sure what I was doing. I lost lucidity when this old woman was meditating at the airport. She was teaching some kids how to meditate.

So far, I am pleased, as I haven't had a lucid dream in a couple of weeks. Thanks for giving me the space to talk about myself

Welcome ThreeCat! It sounds like you have constructed a very good framework to keep having regular lucid dreams! Congratulations on the LD and on breaking a little dry spell! I do think that putting it down in writing like here in your workbook is a great way to put together what is working for you.

I hope we are all hanging out here learning from each other for many years to come!

Thanks, fogelbise. I appreciate you guys being my cheerleaders for a while, especially while I am getting back in the swing of things. I've been doing more WBTB because I know I need to post in this thread now It was nice to break the dry spell and be lucid during the dream state again. I'll keep you guys updated.

Nice! I have really come to enjoy WBTB, but I really have to get to bed on time if I do it on a weeknight.

By the way, I like your succinct overview of MILD from LaBerge's workshop in your signature!

Thanks! I have had some good success with MILD in the past. I think it's a great technique, and a lot of people use it without realizing it. Are you still using your visualization technique?

The past few nights my dreams have been vivid, but no lucidity. This morning I woke up from an anxiety dream and decided not to sleep in I did not want to worry about messing something up (I think I was a teacher again and I bunged up something. ANyhoo). Here's to tonight!

Hey there, ThreeCat! I'm really excited to see you here in the DILD class! I'm sure we all have things we can teach each other! Sorry it's taken a few days for me to respond, but I've been travelling and in the throes of jet lag for the last several days.

Your observations on the quality of awareness during DEILD matches mine. I haven't had all that many DEILDs, the conditions need to be just right, but that "lightly resting awareness," not heavily focused on anything in particular, lightly considering the dream just woken from, seems to be the main factor in DEILD success. In cultivating this sort of awareness in the just-woken state, perhaps we can nudge ourselves more and more in the direction of DEILDs. I think having a consistent meditation practice may help here, in avoiding getting sucked into being led too much into wakefulness by uncontrolled thought chains.

Enjoying dreaming is important: dream recall ability and qualities of dream vividness, once built, seem to hang around, are more reliable and less fickle as lucidity is.

What causes lucidity, especially consistent lucidity? I'm not sure anybody really knows. It seems to have a lot of inertia: both in building up and in ebbing away. Sensei and I have had a number of conversations on this, and one of our main current theories is that incubation plays a major role. While anecdotal, I've noticed that thinking about dreaming, particularly lucid dreaming, especially before bed and during WBTBs, seems to have big effect on lucidity. Reading LDing books and hour before bed, especially TYoDaS and Holecek's new Dream Yoga book, spiked a big spurt of LDs (5 within a week or so) after a long dry period. Can incubation be rolled in with intent? I think they're inter-related, certainly. A lot of things can fall under intent, including goal-setting. But each has a subtle different sort of shading of intent.

I know you've experimented with preparation rituals before bed (turning off the lights early, etc.), I think these are very beneficial. In my observations, about the worst thing one can do before bed is watch videos: the tendency to become mindless and caught up in the plot, losing one's self-awareness, for me at least is very strong.

I've said it before and I still think it's true: lucidity requires a "perfect storm" of preparation, conditions, and intent. I think it's hard or impossible to identify just a few factors that matter most: they all matter -- it's in the coming together of all the contributing factors where we find our successes. Every time I think I've narrowed it down to just a few things, I'll think "but wait, what about XYZ..., that's also critical."

There are some thoughts. I'm looking forwards to following your progress and in your insights into the process!

Cool. Something I worked with last night was the instruction from "The Phase": after WBTB, tell yourself you will wake up several times. During this awakenings, you will notice the awakenings and (basically) DEILD. I'm a little out of practice so I think I moved every single time (!) but I woke up around 4 or 5 times when I normally would not have.

Also, a helpful quote from Jack Kornfield: "If we only focus on the results, we will be devastated." And also, another good one from his teacher, Ajahn Chah:

One day Ajahn Chah held up a beautiful Chinese tea cup, “To me this cup is already broken. Because I know its fate, I can enjoy it fully here and now. And when it’s gone, it’s gone.”

On a side note, 90's music in my dreams last night. "Till I hear it from you" by the Gin Blossoms and Toad the Wet Sprocket, "Walk On the Ocean." Don't really remember details anymore of the dreams haha, but they were at least interesting and enjoyable. No more horror stories of returning to my classroom!

Originally Posted by ThreeCat

Thanks! I have had some good success with MILD in the past. I think it's a great technique, and a lot of people use it without realizing it. Are you still using your visualization technique?

Yes, and it is basically MILD and seems to be helping more and more with incubating characters and situations. I still use SSILD a fair amount but I have been mixing in MILD more frequently. Last night I tried a bit of weak mild during a very brief wbtb in which I was groggy (I stayed in bed too long before getting up, seems to work best to get up after quickly mentally "tagging" previous dreams) and it may have incubated an NLD and maybe some semi-lucid moments, but I was just too groggy to do a proper wbtb.

I hope all is well! BTW, many of us know what you can do, so I'm sure it won't be long before you are back into a great groove!

BTW, many of us know what you can do, so I'm sure it won't be long before you are back into a great groove!

Thanks, fogelbise! I am enjoying the process. Last night dreams were still quite vivid, and what was interesting is that I woke up multiple times, which for a while has been MIA (sleeping from 11 to 6, for instance, and saying "f no I don't have time for a WBTB). Last night I did the dream yoga practices from Tenzin Rinpoche's TYoDaS. I had several interesting encounters with DCs (none of them lucid, but some of them close, I feel). One had to do with a lady who threatened to "punch me in the face" or punch someone if we didn't stop talking to loudly outside of her house. I also had a run-in where I asked some kids to come over, and they sounded the alarm, saying I was a stranger or kidnapper! The mom came over and she had a good laugh about it. I was also hanging onto the fin of a dolphin and being pulled through the water, which was a lot of fun. I feel like things are right around the corner, so I will keep you updated.

Your observations on the quality of awareness during DEILD matches mine. I haven't had all that many DEILDs, the conditions need to be just right, but that "lightly resting awareness," not heavily focused on anything in particular, lightly considering the dream just woken from, seems to be the main factor in DEILD success.

I think this is just a decent way to be during the day as well. I know that when I am resting lightly, I remember to "take a break" from whatever has held my attention, and even "this is a dream."

I've said it before and I still think it's true: lucidity requires a "perfect storm" of preparation, conditions, and intent. I think it's hard or impossible to identify just a few factors that matter most: they all matter -- it's in the coming together of all the contributing factors where we find our successes.

I would agree, HOWEVER (because I'm going to say it!) I think awareness is most critical. Without that "break" in the logic-motivated mind, there is no room to even consider that "maybe this is a dream." But I do think things like acetylcholine levels are super important in boosting that awareness, as well as REM and day work patterns and any number of things, so yeah, we're on the same page there

There are some thoughts. I'm looking forwards to following your progress and in your insights into the process!

I do appreciate you both and am enjoying the journey so far!

Originally Posted by ThreeCat

I would agree, HOWEVER (because I'm going to say it!) I think awareness is most critical. Without that "break" in the logic-motivated mind, there is no room to even consider that "maybe this is a dream." But I do think things like acetylcholine levels are super important in boosting that awareness, as well as REM and day work patterns and any number of things, so yeah, we're on the same page there

This thinking for me just goes round and round! Yes, awareness is most important. But wait, if I only had access to memory, I'd remember my goal to get lucid and therefore get lucid and let my awareness start to work. So memory is most important. But wait, awareness and memory only really work well when there's a strong, concrete goal in place, via intent, so intent is most important. But intent can be triggered by awareness, so awareness is most important, .... and around and around we go. It's a leaky pipe syndrome: you think you've identified the one thing, and then you find cases where all the other things on their own are also "all you need."

Originally Posted by ThreeCat

I had several interesting encounters with DCs (none of them lucid, but some of them close, I feel)...I feel like things are right around the corner, so I will keep you updated.

Yes, this sounds like a very good sign that you are feeling that you are close! I have seen that many times, the dreamer notices more awareness in their dreams and follows up with another LD very shortly after.

I do appreciate you both and am enjoying the journey so far!

Thank you. It is definitely nice to have this community where we can discuss this passion that not enough people have and where we can learn from each other. It is an enjoyable journey I find!

Last night I did all of the TYoDaS exercises again. No WBTB. Dreams were vivid, but my memories now are a little faded. An interesting point was that in one of the my dreams, a recurring dream sign appeared: being in a car wreck where the car flips. During the flip, I felt that it was possibly a dream, and was able to guide the rotations of the truck with mental "hands." At some point I said, "This is a dream," but I was not certain as to whether or not I was asleep. I decided to just roll with it and see what happens. I lost that spark of lucidity and later was discussing with a dream character as to whether or not a flipping car wreck always means I'm in a dream. The DC seemed uncertain

Originally Posted by ThreeCat

The DC seemed uncertain

I'm still waiting for a helpful DC to come up to me and say "Dude! Do a RC, you're dreaming!" My DCs are just not helpful. I sometimes do a waking visualization practice where everything: people, cars, buildings, trees, cups, tables, any object, tells me, "Hey, man, you're dreaming!" Maybe doing this more will incubate it happening!

In terms of DY I'm getting better and better at the throat lotus and Ah visualizations. Holecek has several exercises in his book and even some diagrams of the visualizations he suggests, I recommend his DY book if you haven't read it yet.

My DCs are just not helpful.

Since "dream" is "mind," we have the ability to shape how we perceive/create dreams. I also had the same attitude toward my DCs for some time, until I realized that my DCs were just reflections of my own views and opinions. They have been more helpful, more funny, and so forth since I chilled out some. We've all lightened up together. So maybe, "It's possible that my DCs are trying to teach me something" or "it's possible that my DCs are reflections of my own narrow-minded views" (LOL), you'll see some movement. I think that your approach is interesting and it may be necessary. It's important to remember though that as long as we are "trying" to do something, we aren't working at full capacity (we're trying, which means we aren't satisfied with what we have)

My dad was helpful DC for a while, and on a few occasions told me I was dreaming. In WL, however, we had an unfortunate (fortunate) fight. That very night he disappeared from my dreams and did not return again for some time (I want to say when he did appear he was an unpleasant figure). I don't even wonder whether or not this was directly related to my waking life experience. MIND = MIND!

I am going to read Andrew's book at some point. Currently I am out of a job so I don't have a lot of extra money (which is fine actually). We have been doing a cash budget for food. I do have some interviews coming up which is nice for part time jobs. Maybe at that point I will make a book purchase.

Still doing TYoDaS practices. This morning, had a fairly long LD (15, 20 minutes?). Started while I was swimming in lake with Jesus (?). A woman/ghoul creature was swimming underwater beneath us. I realized I was dreaming and TKed her out of the water, then sent Jesus to fight her (?) I flew around my mom's yard for a bit, half flew, half climbed onto the roof of the house and then jumped onto the roof of the pool enclosure, and then down onto the deck. Went inside. Walked around for a bit, turned on the lights in my sister's room and woke her up. Then went around the house turning out all of the lights. For some reason, felt like I woke up, and began discussing the LD with other DCs. I'll take it!

Very nice, another LD! It sounds like you are back on track! What you mentioned about DC's in the previous post gives me some inspiration to try to use my DC's more, thanks for bringing that up!

Another LD this morning. Quite short (I think, though really only the memory is short). I was in a dark room and wearing a dress. I was a bit flustered because the dress wouldn't cover my properly and then fell down. I suddenly realized this was a bit odd and said, "This is a dream!" to a DC (who happens to be a former student in WL). He smiled and nodded. I went out into a brightly-lit room full of other DCs. I am completely naked at this point but it's cool. I don't recall what happened after that.

What you mentioned about DC's in the previous post gives me some inspiration to try to use my DC's more, thanks for bringing that up!

I would love to hear what you manage to do. Also, those green stars look good on you, fogelbise!

Originally Posted by ThreeCat

Another LD this morning. Quite short (I think, though really only the memory is short). I was in a dark room and wearing a dress. I was a bit flustered because the dress wouldn't cover my properly and then fell down. I suddenly realized this was a bit odd and said, "This is a dream!" to a DC (who happens to be a former student in WL). He smiled and nodded. I went out into a brightly-lit room full of other DCs. I am completely naked at this point but it's cool. I don't recall what happened after that.



I would love to hear what you manage to do. Also, those green stars look good on you, fogelbise!

Congratulations once again! I also had one last night where I was very suspicious that just my memory was short and I kept digging and was surprised at all of the details that were hiding in a lucid dream and one in which I was thinking to myself how clear my thinking was during the dream. It was early in the sleep cycle, a near-WILD (some gap, so DILD) and was followed by NLD's so that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it…

I need to add the DC thing to my peg system for goals, perhaps peg#5, but nothing yet on this front. And thank you

This morning realized I was dreaming while in a tower. I shrunk and expanded the height I was at and then floated out of the tower window inside the tower (???), as though using the tower room as a hot air balloon basket. I then turned the basket upside down and floated to the ground. Some other stuff having to do with flying (floating?) and then I noticed an interesting house on the street, like a tall, thin mansion-like house with a stone square on the front. I went inside and it was identical to the house I grew up in.

On another note, while driving up to my mom's house (same house) in an NLD, I jumped out of the car and began singing: "I wanna run with yooooou... Hold...my...hand!"

Originally Posted by ThreeCat

I went inside and it was identical to the house I grew up in.

On another note, while driving up to my mom's house (same house) in an NLD, I jumped out of the car and began singing: "I wanna run with yooooou... Hold...my...hand!"

Congratulations on the LD! And very cool!..It's like time travel, right?!

I also love songs in my dreams. I had Israel K's Somewhere Over the Rainbow a few nights back and I was so emotional about it…I'm sure you've heard it, but worth a listen either way:

(He passed away quite a few years ago so the video is in a tribute format like something you might see at a funeral)

Thanks for sharing your dream, fogelbise! It's great hearing from you guys. So funny you bring that song up. This year, during the Sleep Yoga retreat, we all sang "Somewhere Over the Rainbow!" It was part of what is called "Sangha Share," and I'm not exactly sure how it happened, but we were all given paper copies of the song. Good times, lots of fun.

This is a beautiful rendition of the song, and I believe I have heard it before, but definitely worth listening. Which reminds me... have you see The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou? There is a man who does beautiful acoustic versions of David Bowie's music:

Originally Posted by ThreeCat

So funny you bring that song up. This year, during the Sleep Yoga retreat, we all sang "Somewhere Over the Rainbow!" It was part of what is called "Sangha Share," and I'm not exactly sure how it happened, but we were all given paper copies of the song. Good times, lots of fun.

Nice! Did you do a review of that retreat? At first I thought you meant the Laberge one which I will have to do one day.

This is a beautiful rendition of the song, and I believe I have heard it before, but definitely worth listening. Which reminds me... have you see The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou? There is a man who does beautiful acoustic versions of David Bowie's music:

Awesome, thank you for that! I had never heard that before. I will have to check out more of his songs and that movie!