Is my subconscious trying to thwart me?

[Bonemeal]

I've noticed that my moments of realization that I am dreaming are seldom enough to propel me into lucidity. Typically, to gain any kind of control over my dreams at all, I have to say "this is a dream." The weird thing is, I'm usually able to say "this is a dr-" and then my jaw goes stiff, and I can't force any sound out. After maybe 3 or 4 tries, I'll manage to finally stammer it out, but then I have a whole new set of issues to deal with. For one, it's really hard for me to retain control over my dreams. Immediately when I become lucid, things will start happening beyond my control. I can typically exert masterful control over one thing. I can teleport once or fly once or create something once. And after that, it's nearly impossible to replicate the feat. It's nearly impossible to do another feat at all: the longer I fly, the harder it becomes to remain aloft; the more I try to control something, the harder it becomes to continue manipulating it; etc. I also am continually victim to false awakenings. Typically after going lucid I will immediately dream that the shock woke me up, but it will in fact be merely another layer of the dream. It's starting to get really frustrating, because I have no problem going lucid. It's doing things while lucid that give me the slip.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by Bonemeal I've noticed that my moments of realization that I am dreaming are seldom enough to propel me into lucidity. *Typically, to gain any kind of control over my dreams at all, I have to say \"this is a dream.\" *The weird thing is, I'm usually able to say \"this is a dr-\" and then my jaw goes stiff, and I can't force any sound out. *After maybe 3 or 4 tries, I'll manage to finally stammer it out, but then I have a whole new set of issues to deal with. For one, it's really hard for me to retain control over my dreams. *Immediately when I become lucid, things will start happening beyond my control. *I can typically exert masterful control over one thing. *I can teleport once or fly once or create something once. *And after that, it's nearly impossible to replicate the feat. *It's nearly impossible to do another feat at all: the longer I fly, the harder it becomes to remain aloft; the more I try to control something, the harder it becomes to continue manipulating it; etc. I also am continually victim to false awakenings. *Typically after going lucid I will immediately dream that the shock woke me up, but it will in fact be merely another layer of the dream. *It's starting to get really frustrating, because I have no problem going lucid. *It's doing things while lucid that give me the slip. Okay, now what does all of this tell you? It should be telling you that your Dream World, though having many Subjective elements, has so much contigency and limitation involved that it is in a sense Real, in the sense that all Obstacles are in some way solids. When Hume's argument was presented to Samual Johnson that the existence of reality could not be proved, he kicked a rock. so, your dreams are Real and will present you with contingencies and limitations like any other real dimension. you will simply have to learn the laws involved and apply yourself to navigate through and around the difficulties. And I hope you are wise enough to conclude that everybody has been lying who has for the last 20 years been equating Lucid Dreaming with Absolute Dream Control. It helped to sell tons of books and to book an eternity of weekend seminars (at $300 a pop) but it was never very true, was it? But it is ever amazing how many people, who can assert none of this Absolute Dream Control, suppose themselves to be the only exceptions to what must be an Absolute Rule, believing that likelihood more probable then the supposition that a Cluster of Slick New Age Gurus could conceive of and then execute a plan that would make them a great deal of money at the expense of a Truth they couldn't possibly care any less about.

[AirRick101]

I wonder, just how proficient of a lucid dreamer are you, Leo, and how often do you have them? Some people are born naturals, and while I can't prove it, I'm convinced they have lucid dreams all the time, despite their moral or political agreements with the dreaming mind. The dreaming mind does not judge, it depends on one's own conscience against him or herself. Out of curiousity, could you give examples of slick new age gurus who are bullshitting us? I want to know if I've been consuming any suspicious material, because I sure have explored a lot.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by AirRick101 I wonder, just how proficient of a lucid dreamer are you, Leo, and how often do you have them? Some people are born naturals, and while I can't prove it, I'm convinced they have lucid dreams all the time, despite their moral or political agreements with the dreaming mind. *The dreaming mind does not judge, it depends on one's own conscience against him or herself. Out of curiousity, could you give examples of slick new age gurus who are bullshitting us? *I want to know if I've been consuming any suspicious material, because I sure have explored a lot. Oh, yes, this is the 'Faith' ploy, slightly dressed up. In the History of Protestant Church's when the overly candid would complain of feeling nothing of any such Holy Ghost, it would be drummed into them that it was not the fault of their Gloriously True Religion but only of their lack of Faith in it. It is always the believers fault. Now, here in a new application, is a new Faith... a Faith in Lucid Dreaming where each and every Dreamer can have absolute control... all except Leo, because he has no Faith. Despite all the Essays, Despite all of the New Studies, Despite every boat in the Ocean crashing on these same rocks, we still have the True Believers thumping up a good business by still insisting upon Total Dream Control. But, if not... it is because the True Believer's Faith must have waivered. Oh... Maybe a New Book or another $300 Weekend Seminar will fix that right up!

[Oneironaut Zero]

...... ....So anyway...Welcome to Dreamviews Bonemeal. I think your main trouble is that you need to slow it down. You need to work on establishing solidity in your lucid state before you go about attempting to go all Neo. Heh. Work on just keeping yourself lucid for the next few nights, or even weeks would be better. When you get lucid, you might want to just think about either watching everything that is going on, observantly, or stopping everything all together and standing completely still. Whichever one works for you. See how long you can keep yourself lucid. Keep reminding yourself that you're lucid and try not to take Too much interest in anything, because you'll probably get sucked back out of lucidity. Just work on maintaining your awareness. Control is a skill unto itself, but its not going to come easy if you aren't even comfortable in the lucid state. So maybe that is something you want to work on first. As far as doing 'supernatural' things in your dream, the one thing holding you back is your connection to the ways of the waking world. Anytime you question 'but what would happen if I can't do this' which your mind Automatically is programed to do, a social/animalistic defense mechanism, that doubt is going to become a weight on your desire to do it. It is up to you to learn to reject that logic, if you're looking to break the instinctual physical laws of the waking world. Don't wonder how to fly, or don't start flying and wonder how you're going to keep yourself up. Just fly. It is hard to explain, and for me it is not easy to do, but I can definitely tell the difference when I'm flying effortlessly, or when I'm trying too hard and failing.

[Glorfindel_III]

Don't wonder how to fly, or don't start flying and wonder how you're going to keep yourself up. Just fly.[/b] That actually expained it quite well for me, i'm always trying quite hard to do stuff and it seems to have an adverse effect. Thanks for the explanation.

[Oneironaut Zero]

My pleasure.

[JEBOman]

When I was younger I had a similar problem which usually showed itself in nightmares too. My problem though was that I was trying to actually say it(in real life) I relized that when my friend was staying at my house and I was saying weird things like "This is a dream!" and he told me, So you should get a feel for what/how your controlling in your dreams like get oriented with it all.

[Bonemeal]

This advice was put to good use in my most recent exploits in lucidity. Again, I had the same trouble coming to terms with my dreaming state. The same lockjaw as always that has always prevented me from completing the sentence "this is a dream" with anything resembling ease. That d-word and my brain go together like acid and water. I attained lucidity Saturday and managed to hold onto it. I initially started out like I always do, trying to do the marathon before mastering baby steps. As usual, I spun in place to lock my lucidity in and then went to work. Two of my closest friends were there, and I wanted to take us someplace cool, so I tried teleporting the three of us. No dice. So I tried something that had never occured to me before: do an easier trick. I just tried teleporting one of us three times. Sure, only two of us made it to the other side, but this was a breakthrough! I didn't just do A trick. I did three of them! Sure, there was a little miscue with one of them, but I did it! Another thing that astonished me with this most recent foray into lucidity was how long I retained it. Previously, my attempts at control were less elegant. Flight being a matter of reaching an apex, swooping down low to the ground as gravity seemed to reach up and grab me with incredible force, pulling up to about 80% of my previous height, and repeating the process until I landed and couldn't take off anymore. And then trying to perform another impossiblity my brain resisted until I woke up. But this time was different. I tried to keep it subtle. Instead of using my lucidity to DO, I used it to merely suggest. Like nuclear weapons at the height of the cold war, if you will. I told one of my friends that she was going to go look for the other friend that I misplaced. When she told me to **** off, I told her that she was in my dream, and she was going to do as I said. It may not have been nice, but it certainly got the job done. No tricks involved. More subtle than usual, but much more rewarding, if for no other reason than I actually managed to enjoy it for the first time in a long time. It had that feeling of accomplishment that accompanied my first time. I'm going to use this advice the next time I achieve lucidity, because I think it is really sound. Is anyone else in a similar position? If so, I'd love to hear about it, and the baby steps that you have made toward greater control. I feel like I finally managed to get up off of all-fours and finally stand on two feet. I can't wait for the next time, that I might make my first steps.

[dream-scape]

Originally posted by Leo Volont It should be telling you that your Dream World, though having many Subjective elements, has so much contigency and limitation involved that it is in a sense Real, in the sense that all Obstacles are in some way solids. * When Hume's argument was presented to Samual Johnson that the existence of reality could not be proved, he kicked a rock. * so, your dreams are Real and will present you with contingencies and limitations like any other real dimension. *you will simply have to learn the laws involved and apply yourself to navigate through and around the difficulties. This is one theory that is plausible to explain why it is difficult to do phenomenal things while lucid that we cannot do in reality. However, it does not account for some of the more real tasks that can also be difficult to carry out. As Bonemeal said in his first post, he had trouble speaking. It is not uncommon for people to have trouble walking or even moving. These things, that are well within known physical laws but still remain difficult to achieve, it seems a more rational explanation would be that sometimes when your mind becomes aware it is dreaming, then it also might become aware of the paralysis-like state of the physical body during REM which manifests itself in the dream. This happens quite often to me. All motor skills quickly start to shut down and the body becomes heavier and heavier, increasingly difficult to move the slightest inch; it is difficult to even breath, you're almost suffocating... Sometimes it's almost like you're dying quite a horrible death and then wake back up. Has made for a few particularly haunting dreams. Some say this translation of paralysis from the physical body to the dream body is just part of being a new lucid dreamer that goes away. I am by no means an expert, but I also not a new comer, having had lucid dreams for over 4 or 5 years. I could be just a really slow learner, but I would speculate that probably either some people are more sensitive to becoming aware of physical paralysis when becoming lucid, or don't enter a deep enough sleep, or a combination or both, making it quite difficult, if not impossible, to completely overcome the "paralysis translation". One thing I might want to note is that I rarely get a refreshing sleep, which might lend a tiny bit of weight to the not entering a deep enough sleep speculation.