Dream Morality...

**Greg** · 01-14-2005 02:25 AM

All right... I've been looking around the forums for the past couple days and keep hearing about lucid dream morality and whatnot. I hear about people asking their dream characters to have sex with them and stuff like that because they feel it would be against their will if they just went ahead and did it... at least, that's what I got from the explanations.

My question is to anyone who carries their real-world morality over into the dream world...

Has a dream character ever turned you down for sex? I mean, have you ever asked someone and they were like, "No." and you were like, "Damn... even in my dreams the chicks hate me."

I mean, I understand the intention and everything but aren't lucid dreams still, at least in some way, controlled by you. I mean, I've heard of friends finding cookies in their pockets because they want there to be. So, wouldn't it make sense that no matter how you ask the person or what you do, they'll say yes?

**Howie** · 01-14-2005 02:45 AM

Originally posted by Gerg
My question is to anyone who carries their real-world morality over into the dream world...

My answer is an infatic YES

When I am Lucid, I am completley concious. And in my dreams I have tried a number of times (not that that is good) to do immoral acts but my concious will not allow it.
I can have cookis appear in my pocket or I can fly to the heavens but I can't make my mind do somthing in a lucid dream that I do not feel is morally incorrect in my waking life. It sucks actually. At times I would like to release my anger or sexual phantasies.

**nightowl** · 01-15-2005 02:15 AM

i didn't before, but now i do. Especially my treatment towards the other dream characters.

**Howie** · 01-15-2005 05:07 AM

Originally posted by nightowl
i didn't before, but now i do. Especially my treatment towards the other dream characters.

Did you go into it with a different train of thought/ How did you achieve somthing your subconcious did not want?

**nightowl** · 01-15-2005 06:20 PM

Originally posted by Howetzer+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Howetzer)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-nightowl

i didn't before, but now i do. Especially my treatment towards the other dream characters.

Did you go into it with a different train of thought/ How did you achieve somthing your subconcious did not want?[/b]

i meant that before i didnt have morals in my dreams, but now i do. Before i treated my dream characters like crap, fought them, and sometimes killed them. I would later regret it because something usually bad happened afterwards

**Alex D** · 01-15-2005 08:33 PM

I'm usually alone (or with CLARiTY) in my dreams, so I can't really do anything bad. I wouldn't dream of doing anything bad to CLARiTY mind, she rocks, even though she doesn't really exist.

**Mystical_Journey** · 01-16-2005 01:28 AM

I wrote somthing ages ago about about dream morality in relation to killing a dream character... if you guys want to read it and tell me what you think?

"In dreams we can do whatever we want, we don’t suffer any apparent consequence in the dream world but in my opinion it opens up new windows to this reality, what if you end up killing people in your dreams and really enjoy the act and then act on that violence in this reality? (I’m sure its possible, the same subconscious feeling of enjoyment enters your waking life which u are unable to control.

I love the book Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, we all have it in us to commit our deepest fantasies. Killing one of your co-workers (lol) im not saying killing is unethical (that’s for the individual to decide) I’m sure there is a better way to deal with a situation though (tom and jerry are evil, teaching kids that violence is good-lol).

If you hate someone so much try to sort it out in this reality, ask them what their problem is etc or ask them in a dream. I remember one of my dreams in which I repeatedly slashed a women on the wrist with a knife who was trying to harm me, I didn’t slash her to enjoy it I slashed her because I believed I was in danger and needed to protect myself. I didn’t take pleasure in the act but thought to myself “why the hell am I dreaming of this”?

In overcoming your own fears we must confront them but dealing in massacre in any respect only perpetuates fear by increasing it, fighting fire with fire. I hate to sound preachy but there are many alternatives to dealing with our frustrations on a subconscious level. We all have the feeling or emotion to kill someone but in order to fulfil that feeling we have to see it through in terms of action (like smashing a mirror in the subconscious it opens a door into a new feeling) which differentiates people who think about murder and people who go through with the action. Once the mirror is broken its hard to put it together again".

What are peoples opinion on killing a dream character?

**Alex D** · 01-17-2005 11:07 PM

Killing a dream character is fine, as long as the dream character doesn't rock, I guess.

**sensi** · 01-19-2005 06:08 AM

I’ve always had the same type of morals in my lucid dreams as I do have in my real life. It’s just the way I am. Killing people in real life doesn’t interest me so why would it in a dream? I guess my morals are so ingrained im my personality and the more I lucid dream the firmer they are in that realm too. Maybe when I first started to lucid dream I would not have been so solid but I am now depending on the level of lucidity. Some dream situations have sometimes come up where I guess my morals have been tested but I always seem to stay true to myself now no matter how tempted I may be. I can only think of one dream where fighting was involved and most of the time I would just do dive rolls out of the way, shit like that. Ha ha this is funny, I don't get into lucid sex either and a while ago I had like 50 or so hot guys basically saying pick me. They were all working out with their tops off. I checked a few out but when I got to even taking it seriously I would flag. It just dose not interest me. I'd rather do things I can not do in real life like walk through walls, or fly or talk to dream characters and learn from what they have to say.

Peace Sensi.

**David Aames** · 01-28-2005 03:09 AM

I use my dreams as a chance to drop my morality, which I guess is a contradiction for having them in the first place if my true intent is to have other thoughts. I just do what's natural kinda, that tends to defy morals in societies standards.

**Funki10is** · 01-28-2005 05:07 PM

A lucid dream is whatever you want it to be. If you want to do ANYTHING its simple, DO IT! Who cares if its immoral or bad. It doesnt matter. If you kill a dream character its not like you'll never see them again you can make anyone come back to life/ or die. Its your world, your the King/Queen. Do whatever you want!

**Scruffy** · 02-10-2005 05:23 AM

In my dreams, my guiding ethic is to do nothing that distresses a dream character. I have a fair amount of empathy for others, so seeing someone in distress bothers me. I prefer to work with my surroundings, not against them. It just flows better.

Since that is about the only thing that guides my actions in dreams, morally speaking, my morals are slightly relaxed from my waking morals. For example, if there's a car sitting on the street, and I need to get somewhere, or need a car for some reason, I won't hesitate to drive off in it in my dreams, because nobody suffers unless I want it that way. The car belongs to nobody.

In general, though, I find it most interesting to do things that dont even push my real-life morals. Epic adventures, incredible vistas, or special powers are generally the most fun for me. I have no reason to fight, save for practice for self defense, in which case I would always invite a DC to spar.

**AirRick101** · 02-11-2005 07:18 AM

Morals have a basis in that whatever you don't like being done to you, you usually wouldn't want the same to happen to others. (unless you are a psycho) Our reality is a reflection of our minds, remember.

Condoning immoral behavior constantly isn't exactly the best idea. The progressive effect of hurting others may make bad habits that make life harder to deal with.

Personally, I'm not one who likes to kill anything for the sake of empathy, perhaps. But I like to dream about action packed crap like counter-strike rounds or starship troopers...

**Seeker** · 02-11-2005 02:32 PM

Conciousness is conciousness. It doesn't matter to me if it is waking conciouness or lucid dreaming conciousness, they are one and the same.
My ethos forces me to behave in the same manner no matter which conciousness I am currently experiencing

I will harm none, period.

**Howie** · 02-11-2005 04:17 PM

Originally posted by Seeker
Conciousness is conciousness. *It doesn't matter to me if it is waking conciouness or lucid dreaming conciousness, they are one and the same. *
My ethos forces me to behave in the same manner no matter which conciousness I am currently experiencing
I will harm none, period.

Seeker. I think you & I have responded to these posts in a similar manner 100 times. So for the sake of a discussion, I will change things up.
Although our beliefs are morally sound. Lets say you condition your mind to say it is free to have a sexual encounter with another partner for the sake of fantasy & release. I think it is fare to say that fantasies are healhty, when you are morally sound you know when to draw the line.
So I guess it once again it boils down to asking yourself, are lucid dream acts immoral? If so then you could argue that any fantasy is too immoral for you are concious. But LDs are just far more enhanced.

**Yogi Bare** · 02-11-2005 06:23 PM

I don't personally think morals come into it when dealing with any kind of fantasy or artistic expression. Specifically regarding lucids, I don’t feel qualified to comment, although I do generally believe that what you push out is what you get back on many different levels.

I think it could be entertaining and even enjoyable to have an occasional horror dream but I'm sure if you spent every dream slashing and terrorising, or being a victim of some kind of slasher type character, it would likely have some kind of negative effect on your psyche (sp?).

As a side note, apparently the plot of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde came from a dream.

**Seeker** · 02-11-2005 07:14 PM

OK, I promised myself I wouldn't jump into this discussion again, but Howetzer just had to poke me, didn't you?

Originally posted by Howetzer
Good morning Seeker.

I had never associated this with day dreaming?.?

Daydreams, a quote comes to mind: "For out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks." Some of you may recognize who said this.

That said, if your daydreams are filled with fantasies about sex and violence, what does that say about the condition of your heart?

**TygrHawk** · 02-11-2005 07:48 PM

Originally posted by Seeker
That said, if your daydreams are filled with fantasies about sex and violence, what does that say about the condition of your heart?

I don't see why sex and violence should be linked together like this. Doing violence to people is generally bad. Having sex with people is generally good. Again, just my opinion, but I don't understand the connection.

And don't say that you meant rape. Rape is not sex. Rape is violence.

**Howie** · 02-11-2005 08:06 PM

Originally posted by TygrHawk+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TygrHawk)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-Seeker

That said, if your daydreams are filled with fantasies about sex and violence, what does that say about the condition of your heart?

I don't see why sex and violence should be linked together like this. Doing violence to people is generally bad. Having sex with people is generally good. Again, just my opinion, but I don't understand the connection.

And don't say that you meant rape. Rape is not sex. Rape is violence.[/b]

I am quite sure we are talking under the ussumtion that you are involved with a partner. Therefore rendering it immoral. That is the connection.

Seeker That is a good point. But to no degree is there an emotional outlet in concern to this topic?

**Seeker** · 02-11-2005 08:16 PM

Originally posted by TygrHawk
...And don't say that you meant rape. *Rape is not sex. *Rape is violence.

I totally agree with you on that. Concentual sex with a dream character is OK in my book as long as you are not breaking a vow you took to another human being. I've discussed the sex thing with my wife. She agreed that my intentionally having dream sex with a DC during a lucid dream would be the same as cheating as far as she was concerned.

**TygrHawk** · 02-11-2005 09:55 PM

Originally posted by Seeker
Concentual sex with a dream character is OK in my book as long as you are not breaking a vow you took to another human being. I've discussed the sex thing with my wife. She agreed that my intentionally having dream sex with a DC during a lucid dream would be the same as cheating as far as she was concerned.

I never took a vow that had anything to do with what happens in my dreams. At least, I'm of the opinion that "forsaking all others" only refers to real-life people. I don't see sex with DCs as being the same at all -- they are imaginary, they don't react like real people would (at least in my dreams), and sometimes they spontaneously turn into werewolves.

Heck, I'm pretty sure that my wife would get upset if I told her about non-lucid dreams that involved sex with others. But what are you gonna do? Does having dreams like that make me a cheater? I certainly don't think so.

Having said all that, I can see your point of view as well. I guess I just look for my dreams to be a place to escape the bonds of reality, whether they be physical, legal, or moral.

**Funki10is** · 02-11-2005 10:33 PM

Dreams are Dreams. We know we cant get hurt... so why would we care about doing immoral acts in the first place in them? I think when you analyze everything too much this is what you get...have morals in dreams which is rediculous...sheesh

**Anima** · 02-11-2005 10:37 PM

Its FAR better to release your tension in dreams. If you do things immoral IRL, well there are consequences.

Your mind is your haven, enjoy it.

**shel** · 02-12-2005 12:06 AM

arent dreams a reflection of your own subconscious and unconscious mind? i know that being lucid is bringing it up to conscious level, but if you dont LD every night wouldnt your subconscious react, or rather act accordingly. lets say that you commit an immoral act in a LD. if you dont feel the guilt of the action your subconscious wont register it as immoral, it would register it as amoral(neutral). hence no consequence. but if you commit acts and feel that "its wrong, but since its a dream its okay", your subconscious will register it as a conscious immoral choice. im curious to know if anyone has had any repercussions in non-LDs because some of these responses sound like "if i dont get caught, then i didnt do anything wrong".

do what you like, but no man(or woman) can run from causality

**Yogi Bare** · 02-12-2005 04:08 AM

Howetzer said

I am quite sure we are talking under the ussumtion that you are involved with a partner. Therefore rendering it immoral.
[/b]

I discussed this idea with my girlfriend and she said that she had no problem with anything that happens in my dreams. I don't really intend to dream about anything I think anyone would consider immoral, but if I did and she doesn't mind, is it still immoral?

What about taking drugs in an LD? The reasons for not taking drugs IRL are obvious, and the implications of certain potential problems certainly brings in a moral argument, but what could be immoral about taking drugs in a dream?

Taking the general idea of the morality of dreams/fantasy/whatever further; some say it isn't ok to even think about an immoral act, even though to asses whether something is immoral or not you have to imagine a scenario and then think about your feelings towards it.

By preventing people from thinking about the morality of something you force them to accept the status quo - religions have used this one for centuries to maintain power and control. Would anyone say that we are committing an immoral act by discussing this? So, where do you draw the line?

shel said

do what you like, but no man(or woman) can run from causality[/b]

I can’t disagree with that.